concrete anchoring

[scwirenut]

just wondering the method you guys prefer, I have for years been using the improved hammer drives for gear and supporting, / and the plastic sleaves for securing. recently i tried the tapcons and so far I love them. I use them for everything just 2 different sizes

[mdshunk]

I guess TapCons have their usefulness, but I've had just enough problems with them that I almost hate to use one. Not to mention that I think the blue heads make exposed work look cheap.

[tonyou812]

im not a big fan of tapcons but they have their uses. I always keep a box on hand for those must have situations.

[mdshunk]

I guess the main times I like to use a Tapcon is when for some reason the item must be anchored while it is in place. That is to say, the item can't be removed for the installation of a real anchor of some sort and put back on the wall. Tapcons can be drilled and installed through the hole in the back of the item. Admittedly, I end up using a Zamac half the time for that anyhow because I forget about Tapcons.

[ItsHot]

I use the blue plastic, 1/4" shields with a #10 panhead screws. Hilti white plastic anchors , with screw included. Use these like drive pins. Hold phillips screwdriver in them and "wham" with the hammer. No time for screwing around! Also use the metal drive pins. And use threaded metal sheilds(Hilti) with bolts. And the least used is Tapcons. I have the combo tip that drills and drives without having to change out in drill. The Tapcons seem to work fine, but just use them the least of the other fasteners mentioned above.

[peter]

Of course, concrete should be anchored.
As the Captain of the good yacht Sea Eagle, I know enough about seamanship that concrete does not make a very good anchor. Neither do most of the other references to cheap, imported tools, Microsoft computers, and other snide remarks.
Now if you are refering to anchoring things to concrete, there are many approaches.
Epoxy Glue-- Nobody has mentioned it and I haven't tried it, but it should be considered a possibility.
RedHeads & Inserts-- Most use the RedHead threaded studs. There are problems with driving these, typically bending and getting the threads smashed with the hammer. There are ways of avoiding this, mainly putting a rod coupling on the end. The inserts are just as strong and have the advantage that, when installed, they are flush or slightly below the surface. A good use is in floors so that they can remain for further use of the tugger. The studs will either cause a tripping hazard -- non OSHA -- or will have to be replaced over and over. Also transformers can be simply man-handled into place instead of having to be lifted carefully over the studs. However for walls, the studs are better since you can just lift the panel can onto them and they will hold it up until you get the nut on.
Tapcons-- These can be painted. A good combination is a BullDog rotary hammer and an impact driver. As Cat, the Cat Human, would say, "Meow".
I tend to use flathead, 3/16" for one hole straps and hex, 1/4" for the boxes.
[Zamac?]_______?-- One type to stay away from [I don't recall the name right now] looks like a rivet with a nail sticking out of it. You drill a 1/4" hole, insert it and pound the nail in and it expands and holds. The problem is that it is not reversible. One possible advantage is use in jails and high crime neighborhoods.
Plastic anchors-- Cheap and inexpensive. Supposedly they will melt and fail during a raging fire, but then, you have other problems.
~Peter

[mdshunk]

Tapcons-- These can be painted.Yeah. Knock yourself out.

One type to stay away from [I don't recall the name right now] looks like a rivet with a nail sticking out of it. You drill a 1/4" hole, insert it and pound the nail in and it expands and holds. The problem is that it is not reversible. One possible advantage is use in jails and high crime neighborhoods.Those are the one's I use instead of tapcons for certain things on walls. I know them as Zamac's.

I like Tapcons for a few things. Overhead strut on a concrete deck, mostly because it's quick and fast, is another time if the load it okay.

[chris kennedy]

I use Tapcon for just about everthing. If you need to move something, back them out. Hate nail-ins and plastic anchors are crap.

[ItsHot]

I would like to see a Tapcon used with a wiremold clip!:roll:

[mdshunk]

I would like to see a Tapcon used with a wiremold clip!:roll:
About the only thing I like to use with wiremold clips is a drywall screw. If I need an anchor for it, you need to drop down to the wee plastic anchors. I think they're for a #6-#8 screw. Most drywall screws are #6 and some are #7.

[ItsHot]

About the only thing I like to use with wiremold clips is a drywall screw. If I need an anchor for it, you need to drop down to the wee plastic anchors. I think they're for a #6-#8 screw. Most drywall screws are #6 and some are #7.
Marc this is when I like the white plastic Hilti anchors (1/4 ") they come with screw inserted and have a nearly flush phillips head.

[mdshunk]

Marc this is when I like the white plastic Hilti anchors (1/4 ") they come with screw inserted and have a nearly flush phillips head.
HILTI makes some cool stuff, but I have no place local to buy it.

[BryanMD]

re tapcons
The hole is what matters.

The crap bits they give with the boxes go right in the trash where they belong.
I like Bosch 6" masonry bits and use ones a smidgen (tech term) smaller than what the tapcon instructions call for.

[tyha]

what are the Zamacs you are refering to. we only use tapcans in block walls. in solid concrete the steel drop in is the way to go

[mdshunk]

what are the Zamacs you are refering to. we only use tapcans in block walls. in solid concrete the steel drop in is the way to go
These... They're for light duty, like one hole straps and 4-squares:

http://www.powers.com/images/images_products/mechanical/02843.jpg

You may know them as "nail in anchors".

[ItsHot]

Some also call the above "drive pins"

[HighWirey]

I guess TapCons have their usefulness, but I've had just enough problems with them that I almost hate to use one. Not to mention that I think the blue heads make exposed work look cheap.

I first experienced TapCons in 1978. Did not like them then and still do not. My spec used to read "all electrical equipment shall be fastened using a 1/4 inch machine screw fasteners". Since then, TapCons have inveigled their way into our electrical world, however the origional spec has never been modified, just 'grandfathered-in'. Used thousands of 'em since 1978, still do not care for them.

As for the Zamacs, their 'holding power' is priceless, so long as you do not have to remove one. Used thousands of them also. What is a person to do?

Best Wishes Everyone

[Thomp]

These... They're for light duty, like one hole straps and 4-squares:

http://www.powers.com/images/images_products/mechanical/02843.jpg

You may know them as "nail in anchors".

Yeah, I know them as drive pins. It's what I use.

[Sparky555]

For light duty I use plastic anchors. For odd situations I'll use Tapcons, but rarely because the hole has to be precise & the concrete has to cooperate. For larger heavy duty I use RedHeads. On rare occasions I use a stud gun with pins & loads.

Dave

[tom baker]

Epoxey is the best. I fasten a lot into hollow block and the hilti epoxey for hollow block is the only method I have found that works and is reliable.

Most of what I install has to be removed for adds, moves or changes.

Also I have learned to use stainless.

But the Zaymacs are great for a good GP anchor.

[active1]

Tapcons for most items here.
One key is to use a slightly different size bit depending on material.
Soft old brick needs a smaller bit while hard cement needs to be a bit bigger.
I use a inpact tool for driving. Make sure the drive bit is not worn out.
Allways use the larger size, 1/4 with the hex head.
Also a cordless drill set on low hammer mode works good for driving.
Corded drills never worked well for me.
Many times they can be tightened or loosend with a screw driver such as to amake an adjustment.
Also keep in mind hollow spots and where the bulk of the thread is at on the tapcon.

They have stainless tapcons listed if you want the look but have never seen them.
http://www.itwbuildex.com/catpdf1/tapcon.pdf
1/4x1" Tapcons in 2000 PSI concrete can hold 750 lbs tension and 900 shear.

[quogueelectric]

Tapcons are my last choice except for door or slider plates which have nothing to do with electrical work. In concrete either set a steel anchor or split wedge or set a lead anchor as long as it is not in the ceiling. These anchors take seconds to install if you are used to using them. The key is being set up right with a fastening carry all with all the parts readily available there is no excuse for ineficiency other than a look in the mirror. I have totes set up in my truck which will accomodate any fastening situation in seconds. This is the bulk of our work FASTENING.

[DanZ]

Epoxy Glue-- Nobody has mentioned it and I haven't tried it, but it should be considered a possibility.

I've done...eh...well, I've spec'd that for anchoring new steel columns & vertical beams in existing construction. It's a lot of work for small things, I think.

RedHeads & Inserts-- Most use the RedHead threaded studs.

Hehe, I was reading a spec blue print on a pre fab steel storage building a while back, and came across some odd call outs for screws. I asked the architect if he knew what, specifically, they were and he told me he thought they were "Some type of truly self tapping screw, you know, so you can just screw it like a RedHead...and...Dan, why do you have that funny look on your face?" I almost lost it when he said that! Then again, I do have a dirty mind. I should take it out and clean it some time...:roll: :grin:

[220/221]

1/4" plastic anchors with 1 1/4" x 10 screws for small stuff, 2" screws for larger stuff and sleeve anchors for bigger stuff.

I HATE non reversible anchors systems like bulldogs or whatever you call those lead things with the mushroom heads that you drive in.

[POWER_PIG]

[QUOTE=220/221]1/4" plastic anchors with 1 1/4" x 10 screws for small stuff, 2" screws for larger stuff and sleeve anchors for bigger stuff.

I HATE non reversible anchors systems like bulldogs or whatever you call those lead things with the mushroom heads that you drive in.[/QUOTE
Agreed.....those G-Golly drive pins suck if for whatever reason you have to move something that is tatooed to the wall by those darn things. Plastic anchors w/10 screws are cheap and very strong for mounting light work like boxes and conduit exposed on block. Switchgear and the likes, I'll be using tapcons or redhead type anchors. If you know how to install them proper, they will never let you down. I spose its just a matter of what your used to.

[macmikeman]

I keep seeing an ad on tv where a guy glues a hammer up to the ceiling with a tube of goop from the Elmer's company, and walks away from it and it holds. Trouble is I bought a tube of the same product to help secure an undercab light to a stainless steel workbench at a resturant kitchen. I had to support the fixture in place with wood for 24 full hours before it could be left unsupported. It is no better than plain old plywood adhesive. So save your money.... Tapcons are a great way to support on concrete block walls. In places with prestressed concrete they are pretty hard to drive in all the way, even the 1/4" size ones.

[Smart $]

I HATE non reversible anchors systems like bulldogs or whatever you call those lead things with the mushroom heads that you drive in.
The better version (uncertain of mfgr at present) are reversible with slotted-head screw-type drive pins. It's probably a patent infringement for other mfgrs to copy this feature.

[Smart $]

I keep seeing an ad on tv where a guy glues a hammer up to the ceiling... save your money...
Are you sure "ya got the right stuff"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7nYtfcpVH4

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/subcategory.asp?CatID=45&SubID=113

I've used the stuff and it seamed to work pretty good... but can't say I used it to instantly tack a hammer to the ceilng :rolleyes:

In places with prestressed concrete [Tapcons] are pretty hard to drive in all the way, even the 1/4" size ones.
That's why driving 'em with a rotohammer equipped with a 'condriver' is hard to beat. The slower, and higher percussive impact helps to drive them in... and for the ones that don't quite make it, simply switch into reverse, back 'em out a little and go for home again... which usually works... or twists the head off :grin:

[jeremysterling]

I haven't tried this but I heard if your tapcon pulls out you can put some small piece of stranded copper in the hole and it holds like a champ.

Be careful drilling for anchors in post tension decks. Know where the cables are and how shallow an anchor you'll need.