History of "GEM box"?

[mdshunk]

I was ripping out a bunch of old gem boxes today, originally installed in the late 20's. I just happened to notice inside that they were actual "gem" brand boxes. I always wondered where that term came from. They were stamped, in three separate lines, as follows:

G.E.M. Co.
GEM - D
Pat'd.

I guess this is G-something Electrical Manufacturing Company. Anyone happen to know what the name of the company was/is? These happened to be black enameled steel boxes.

[quogueelectric]

I looked for a while but to no avail it is interesting though as some of the old houses I have renovated had horsedrawn delivery wagons for thier wallboard products located on 5th avenue in manhattan now I dont know if anyone can apreciate the absurdity of that happening today.

[e57]

These happened to be black enameled steel boxes.

I kind of wish they'd go back to that - and not just for retro appeal...

[bjp_ne_elec]

Interested in seeing what these puppies look like. Anyone got a pic that they can post?

Thanks

[Dennis Alwon]

Interested in seeing what these puppies look like. Anyone got a pic that they can post?

Thanks

They are just your standard metal switch boxes. Many areas call them gem boxes. http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/239517_front500.jpg

[bjp_ne_elec]

Dennis - thanks. In NE, I've never heard them referred to as that. Just call them "metal old work" boxes".

Thanks

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis - thanks. In NE, I've never heard them referred to as that. Just call them "metal old work" boxes".

Thanks

When I line in NYC that's what I grew up calling them. I came down here to NC and the sales people just stared at me when I asked for a gem box. ;)

[roger3829]

I grew up in Connecticut, still there, I never heard the term "gem box", they were just "old work boxes". Didn't need to say "metal" as that's all we used.

I was taught the trade by my grandfather who started in the field in 1945.

He finally put the tools down a couple of years ago because he couldn't see.

[480sparky]

If you look at the clamps in those boxes, they are stamped with a 'T' and an 'N'.

What does the T and N stand for?

[LarryFine]

I thought the gem boxes were the ones with the beveled back corners where the cable KOs are.

[Sierrasparky]

Larry
You the man again.
The ones with the beveld back are the original.
Anyone know what the T and N stand for..

[DJFNEC2005]

I'll take a shot at an answer...I think it is the manufactures code for the type and use of the clamp. I recall a counter salesman at our local supply house telling me this.

See the link below for raco boxes, A little more than half way down the page look for a section titled "CLAMP TECHNICAL DATA AND STUD TYPE". I can't find a T N designation exactly on the page but maybe a diffrent manufacture or box type. I'm not 100% sure of this but seems reasonable enough to my simple mind.

Http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_boxes.asp?FAM=RacoBoxes

[nakulak]

I kind of wish they'd go back to that - and not just for retro appeal...

be careful what you wish for.

I love horses and farms, but streets covered with horse dung aren't all that appealing.

[quogueelectric]

If you look at the clamps in those boxes, they are stamped with a 'T' and an 'N'.

What does the T and N stand for?
Alright cow is going out on a limb and going to suggest n stands for nonmetalic. Go ahead the clubbing will begin now.

[al hildenbrand]

Alright cow is going out on a limb and going to suggest n stands for nonmetalic.You're on the right track.

The info is in the White Book under QCIT - Metallic Outlet Boxes Boxes may or may not be provided with clamps. When clamps are provided, the carton is marked to indicate the type of wiring system or combination of systems for which they have been tested. The clamps are marked with the following letters or combinations thereof to indicate that they are suitable for use with armored cable (‘‘A’’): flexible metal conduit – ‘‘F,’’ nonmetallic-sheathed cable – ‘‘N,’’ or flexible tubing (loom) – ‘‘T.’’ Clamps suitable for Type MC metal-clad cable are marked ‘‘MCI’’ for metal-clad interlocking armored cable, ‘‘MCI-A’’ for metal-clad interlocking armor ground cable, ‘‘MCS’’ for metal-clad continuous smooth-sheath cable, and ‘‘MCC’’ for metal-clad continuous corrugated-sheath cable. If suitable for all seven types, the clamp is marked ‘‘ALL.’’ Clamps suitable for nonmetallic-sheathed cable are also suitable for multiconductor underground feeder and branch circuit cable where used in dry locations.

[hardworkingstiff]

If you wire boat lifts, GEM would bring to mind a controller with a wireless remote for the boat lift.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

I think Gem also manufactures a bunch of consumer grade electrical devices, like triple plug adaptors, edison base socket adaptors, and extention cords.

[brian john]

Leave it to Marc to pay attention to that much detail.

[stickboy1375]

Here are some pictures of the box Marc is talking about, I'm doing a job now where whoever installed these boxes forgot to install the clamps. :roll:


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u292/stickboy1375/mine004-1-1.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u292/stickboy1375/mine001-3-1.jpg

[Sierrasparky]

I don't think they forgot the clamps. The threw them away because they needed room in darn thing. You ever try to replace a switch in one of these. The EC in those days sure had the craft of stuffing wires in a box.:D

[mdshunk]

Here are some pictures of the box Marc is talking about, ...
Exactly. The one's I noticed were the GEM-D model, with beveled corners, loom knockouts in the top and bottom, as well as the sides. Your GEM-X model, pictured, seems to have square corners and has loom knockouts in the back as well.

[stickboy1375]

Exactly. The one's I noticed were the GEM-D model, with beveled corners, loom knockouts in the top and bottom, as well as the sides. Your GEM-X model, pictured, seems to have square corners and has loom knockouts in the back as well.


Yeah, I've seen both versions. usually they have clamps installed also... :wink: except this job.

[mdshunk]

Yeah, I've seen both versions. usually they have clamps installed also... :wink: except this job.
Some of my old catalogs show you had to, or rather could, purchase the box and clamps separately.

[electricman2]

I don't think they forgot the clamps. The threw them away because they needed room in darn thing. You ever try to replace a switch in one of these. The EC in those days sure had the craft of stuffing wires in a box.:D
Wonder what they would have done if they had to put a GFCI receptacle in it?:rolleyes:

[480sparky]

Wonder what they would have done if they had to put a GFCI receptacle in it?:rolleyes:

Or a 1000w dimmer?:-?

[LarryFine]

Wonder what they would have done if they had to put a GFCI receptacle in it?:rolleyes:Or a 1000w dimmer?:-?
More than 50 years ago???

[POWER_PIG]

Gangable Electrical Metal = G.E.M

[480sparky]

More than 50 years ago???

Today. Ever try to cram one in when there's 4 or 5 old NMs soldered & taped?

[LarryFine]

Today. Ever try to cram one in when there's 4 or 5 old NMs soldered & taped?
Um, no. I've needed to, but figured on replacing the box from the get-go.

[mdshunk]

Gangable Electrical Metal = G.E.M
where'd you find that?

[LarryFine]

where'd you find that?
Why, you jealous? :grin:

[mdshunk]

Why, you jealous? :grin:
Yeah, very! I tried and tried, and I've got resources and skills beyond measure 8-) . I came up blank.

[chris kennedy]

I've got resources and skills beyond measure 8-) .
And tools and testers.:wink:

[mdshunk]

I think I found the patent on the things, but I can't find who the assignor was or who the inventor might have worked for (or maybe he was a company owner). They most closely match the 1917 patent of John C. Boyton (http://www.google.com/patents?id=Z4lCAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4).

[al hildenbrand]

I'm doing a job now where whoever installed these boxes forgot to install the clamps.A lot of the loom simply wasn't secured at the Gem box.If the concealed K&T was roughed in on porcelain knobs, and the distance into the Gem box is so short that the knob prevents the loom from pushing back out of the box. I see a lot of fished loom that isn't clamped. There were quicker materials than the Gem clamps, such as these wire clips:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/AlHildenbrand/Electrical/GemBoxLoomClip_web.jpg
Wonder what they would have done if they had to put a GFCI receptacle in it?The old switches and receptacles, with their porcelain bodies, were every bit as bulky as a modern big bodied device (GFI or Dimmer). The installation technique was different.

One secured the conductors under the terminal screws after mounting the device to the box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/AlHildenbrand/Electrical/GemBox3Way_web.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/AlHildenbrand/Electrical/GemBoxpulledout_web.jpg

I pulled the switch out with the wires on in this photo above, for the photo only. If the box was still in the wall, the conductors would have to be removed from the terminal screws before the device could be pulled out as there wouldn't be any slack.

Also, most splices of conductor to conductor were done outside of the Gem boxes, occuring at the roughed in, or fished in, conductor runs.

[GUNNING]

Could GEM stand for General Electric Manufacturing? Kinda like BX stands for Brooklyn Manufactured by General Electric?

[mdshunk]

Could GEM stand for General Electric Manufacturing? Kinda like BX stands for Brooklyn Manufactured by General Electric?
That had crossed my mind, but I was unable to find any reference on the net or in old catalogs to "General Electric Manufacturing". Matter of fact, most of the stuff in GE catalogs in the 20's and 30's as far as electrical hardware was made by other people and just sold in the GE catalog. I even have an old Western Union telegram manual with abbreviations for almost every electrical company and electrical item, and nothing about GEM in it. I had thought that maybe GEM was a Western Union telegram abbreviation for something like some of the other slang is.

[K8MHZ]

Could GEM stand for General Electric Manufacturing? Kinda like BX stands for Brooklyn Manufactured by General Electric?

I was told by a very informed source that 'BX' stood for 'B Experimental'.

To support this I found the following on this forum: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=260

Per Jim Dollins, VP of Product Development for AFC Cable Systems, the term "BX" stands for "Product "B" - Experimental."

Apparently, back when the product was first developed, the first manufacturer of this product had only one product at the time: "Product "A"". So when they developed this product they didn't know what to call it. Somebody suggested "Product "B" with the suffix "X" added as the product was at that time experimental.