emergency response

[westelectric]

For those of you who respond to emergency calls 24/7 how do you treat a situation like this? Call comes in sat. nite 11:30 pm. I will listen to the problem and before dispatching the on call guy I always tell the customer the charge (double time the average service call) Customer says thats too much I'd rather wait till Mon. I say we are all booked up for Mon. and in order to pay normal rate you have to take the next available appt. which could be the end of the week. What do you think? What if this call comes in during normal business hours. Is it fair to pull a guy from a job to respond to this emergency for the same price that everyone else pays for waiting a week for an appt. or should they pay the double time rate even though its during normal busines hours. For long time repeat customers I will usually accommodate them at normal rate, but what about the customer who is just calling because no one else will respond? Very curious to hear some of your responses. I firmly believe that if someone wants emergency response no matter what the emergency is, what time or what day, they should pay a premium. If they dont want to pay the premium then get on the end of the list like everybody else.

[quogueelectric]

For those of you who respond to emergency calls 24/7 how do you treat a situation like this? Call comes in sat. nite 11:30 pm. I will listen to the problem and before dispatching the on call guy I always tell the customer the charge (double time the average service call) Customer says thats too much I'd rather wait till Mon. I say we are all booked up for Mon. and in order to pay normal rate you have to take the next available appt. which could be the end of the week. What do you think? What if this call comes in during normal business hours. Is it fair to pull a guy from a job to respond to this emergency for the same price that everyone else pays for waiting a week for an appt. or should they pay the double time rate even though its during normal busines hours. For long time repeat customers I will usually accommodate them at normal rate, but what about the customer who is just calling because no one else will respond? Very curious to hear some of your responses. I firmly believe that if someone wants emergency response no matter what the emergency is, what time or what day, they should pay a premium. If they dont want to pay the premium then get on the end of the list like everybody else. True that I totally agree bang them for premium and pull the guy to pay for it. If they dont agree dont answer the call.

[charlie b]

If I am your next scheduled customer, and if you make me wait because some other person called in an "emergency," I don't think I would be pleased with your customer service policy. I suspect that many of the "emergency" calls you get are simply "the circuit keeps tripping and I want my TV and Internet back," as opposed to anything that poses a real threat to life or property. If you make me wait because someone else thinks the loss of his Internet constitutes an emergency, I would really not be happy with you.

I think you should handle the customers you had already agreed to handle, keep your existing appointments, and let the new customer wait his turn. If that means your workers get an overtime opportunity (presuming they are willing and available), and if that means your new customer pays a premium for the overtime work, I would call that fair.

[macmikeman]

I think you guys are forgetting what "emergency calls" are exactly. Those are the ones you get Saturday night at 10:30 pm from residential general contractors who just remembered that the home buyer wanted an extra cable outlet in the kids bedroom and he forgot to tell you about it. And he was kinda hoping to have it done by Monday morning cause he already started the sheetrock. And by the way, "your not charging me for this I hope". :rolleyes: :smile:

[brian john]

For 25 years I have handle it like this.

Emergency calls gets first priority, I explain to the non-em customer the situation and we will get their ASAP AFTER DEALING WITH THE emergency.

Had a call Memorial Day weekend emergency CB tripped but system transferred to another source full load of two systems less than 50 % of one sources capacity. I asked the customer if it could wait till Tuesday (system was up, no loss of power on the floor) wanted someone ASAP. I got a tech there and they told him it had to wait till the maintenance window TUESDAY EVENING. Oh did I mention this was a 92 mile one way.

Call today, HV gear tripped loss of power to two factories, Black snake crawled into the HV gear.

[charlie b]

Emergency calls gets first priority, I explain to the non-em customer the situation and we will get their ASAP AFTER DEALING WITH THE emergency.
But what constitutes an emergency? Permit me to give an example.

There was a sad article in the local paper earlier this week. A 61 year old woman who had spent her entire life in an iron lung (having contracted polio shortly before the vaccine had been invented) died, when the utility power went out, and when the backup generator did not start. Her family tried desperately to get the generator going, but to no avail. Here was a true emergency, but one for which no electrician could have possibly reached the home in time to avert the tragedy. The story described her as a wonderful human being, full of a love of life despite her circumstances.

When I hear the word “emergency,” I think of situations in which a failure to act in time may result in the loss of life, or a serious health risk, or damage to property. Too often members of our profession (and yes, engineers are guilty here as well) use the word “emergency” to describe situations of mere inconvenience.

So if you call me, your “non-emergency customer,” to explain that you must first deal with an “emergency customer,” then I am going to ask you, as I said above, “what constitutes an emergency?”

[quogueelectric]

The determination of what is the emergency is solely at the disgresion of the buisness owner. I will always try to grab as much work as I can handle and sometimes it means juggling customers. A bird in the hand well you know. The beauty of being the owner is you dont have anyone to answer to.

[Sparky555]

Aside from electric life-support systems there aren't many real emergencies. A more typical one I run into is where a finished basement will flood without the sump. It's typical for someone to pay a premium for quick after-hours service. I try to be flexible but some people are more demanding than their situation warrants. If they want to pay a premium for premium service, I'm ready.

Dave

[charlie b]

A more typical one I run into is where a finished basement will flood without the sump.
Good example! I would understand having to have my job be delayed, in another customer had that happen. That would fit into what I had described earlier as, . . . failure to act in time may result in . . . damage to property.

[petersonra]

Look at it from the POV of the guy paying.

If it is truly an emergency, it warrants their particular problem being jumped to the head of the line.

I would not necessarily qualify an emergency as only something life threatening. I might include something where there is substantial potential for property damage, monetary loss, or major inconvenience.

Emergency service warrants a much higher rate.

However, I would look also look at this from the POV of your service guys. Few want to go out at midnight on Saturday night to reset a circuit breaker that tripped because a HO plugged in her hair dryer into the same circuit that the microwave was making popcorn on. Its also a bit of a pain to go out for a short call. They ruin your night as bad as a 4 hour call. I'd have a minimum charge for such things that was like 2 or 4 hours. We have a 4 hour minimum for all service calls.

[mdshunk]

Emergency calls to existing good customers will normally get a guy pulled off his non-emergency work to take care of them.

Emergency calls on weekends are double-time.

Emergency calls through the week get in the next regular time slot at regular rates, or after hours through the week (evening) at time-and-a-half if they can't wait for a regular opening. Truthfully, sometimes all it takes is an hour or so in the evening, a long day for a guy, to get a customer patched back up good enough so that more complete repairs can be scheduled during regular hours.

Business customers, existing or new, get accommodated the best possible way I can figure out, since these are special cases.

For you guys who do resi service work mostly, start to track payments for emergency work. It's historically a problem, and I'd rather not do it at all. Businesses pay just fine for emergency work, for the most part.

[360Youth]

Emergency calls get top priority at top billing, explained ahead of time if need be so there are no surprises. We had a major emergency come in this week on a lift station for a WWTP. The 2 day total of crane fees, pump repairs, sewage labor rates, etc (I wanted a pic of me in the rain suit and boots at the bottom of the tank to post for a..."So How Was Your Holiday" topic, but alas...:smile: ) came in around 7 grand. And we had to graciously explain to those customers that had to be rescheduled the situation. You bill what it costs you and it is always based on what your time is worth at the time your services are needed. Be fair. Be firm.

[brian john]

But what constitutes an emergency


Hospitals take priority.
Data centers follow.
Then all commercial customers.

Loss of power main tripped.
Blow up.
Utility outage generator failed to start.

Everything else is handled on case by case basis, good/regular customer, ECT.

[Sparky555]

For you guys who do resi service work mostly, start to track payments for emergency work. It's historically a problem, and I'd rather not do it at all. Businesses pay just fine for emergency work, for the most part.

Are you saying you're not getting paid for resi emergency work?

Dave

[mdshunk]

Are you saying you're not getting paid for resi emergency work?
I'm saying that there's just a million and one excuses, and promises never hash out once the problem is solved. I almost feel like I'm wakling on egshells when I break the news to a homeowner about high dollar unplanned expenses. I don't feel that way if they called me to look at non-emergent work.

[480sparky]

I'm saying that there's just a million and one excuses, and promises never hash out once the problem is solved. I almost feel like I'm wakling on egshells when I break the news to a homeowner about high dollar unplanned expenses. I don't feel that way if they called me to look at non-emergent work.

I've gotten a lot of those calls over the years. It's mostly stupid stuff, like "My microwave isn't working!" at 2AM. You really want to pay me double-time to replace your microwave breaker? It's trivial stuff like this that keeps me from advertising 24-hour service.

[zog]

Definition of an emergency, they pay the double time for service at 11PM saturday night. If that is too much, it is not an emergency.

[emahler]

I'm saying that there's just a million and one excuses, and promises never hash out once the problem is solved. I almost feel like I'm wakling on egshells when I break the news to a homeowner about high dollar unplanned expenses. I don't feel that way if they called me to look at non-emergent work.

credit cards help alleviate some of these problems

[brian john]

In commercial the red flag for me is when a new customer says

"I do not care what it cost get it fixed"

What they mean is at that moment they do not care what it cost, but when the invoice hits the desk THEY DURN WELL CARE. I'd bet 95% of the time when I hear this, I know what's awaiting me down the road.

[macmikeman]

Guy calls me up at 11 pm several years back. Has a yogurt franchise. His freezer breaker keeps trippin. He stands to loose about 40k if the stock yogurt strain in the walk in gets above a certain temperature. It's raining real hard outside, the kind you can only experience in Hawaii and Southeast Asia. I go there. Leak in the roof dripping onto a 2" emt conduit and water getting in thru a well tightened set screw coupling above the lift out ceiling tile. I found the water to be following down the inside of the conduit onto a main breaker in the panel. I guess the rainwater picked up a good dose of electolytes while pooling up on the roof cause it caused a mini ark blast at the circuit breaker. I drove back to the shop and got a 3 pole 100a replacement breaker, go back and install it, and all is well. Except that he stiffed me on the bill. That was then, and now its paypal upfront for any emergency call out. Hard lessons learned.

[masterinbama]

my emergency work mainly consists of pumps and controls for a small local water system. I tell all of my customers that the water system takes priority in emergency's. Most of the time it is control issues and I can handle most myself but I did have one where I had to gut a 400 HP autotransformer starter at one location to get the parts for another (we had 4 pumps at one location when only 2 were needed and one pump at a well that served 12000 people) I will tell a lucky story (if a MCC meltdown is lucky) Our city water system had a transformer and switchgear fire last week at a 39 MGD water plant luckily they had a contractor on site gearing up to do a 4 filter add and a switchgear replacement so the gear was already designed and being fabbed. It was just a matter of rushing the order.

[romexking]

I've gotten a lot of those calls over the years. It's mostly stupid stuff, like "My microwave isn't working!" at 2AM. You really want to pay me double-time to replace your microwave breaker? It's trivial stuff like this that keeps me from advertising 24-hour service.

What's wrong with making double time and at the same time keeping a customer happy or making a new client impressed with your customer service?

[brian john]

We have had major repairs that went to insurance. Worked around the clock, opened supply houses, hire riggers lots of cash outlay. Then insurance company wants to negotiate. Hey were was he when I worked 36 hours straight, negotiate this.

[frizbeedog]

.....I firmly believe that if someone wants emergency response no matter what the emergency is, what time or what day, they should pay a premium. If they dont want to pay the premium then get on the end of the list like everybody else.

Right. Everyone else has been waiting.

Where I work, the Emergency calls are usually given to someone who has put in a full day already. Early guy done gets the call, usually, depending on the type of emergency. The company has to pay the overtime to the employee and that pay has to be charged to someone.

Many times what some customers see as an emergency, when given an overtime rate, will change thier mind as to the severity of the situation.

Good customer's get priority. Calls from out of the blue....They may have to wait.

[mdshunk]

We have had major repairs that went to insurance. Worked around the clock, opened supply houses, hire riggers lots of cash outlay. Then insurance company wants to negotiate. Hey were was he when I worked 36 hours straight, negotiate this.
I've done jobs that I didn't know were insurance jobs until after the fact. If the owner hired me, the owner needs to pay me. If there's insurance involved, that's between the owner and the insurance company to fuss about. I'll give them whatever paperwork they need, but they still need to pay me, NOW.

[brian john]

MArc:

generally we tell the owners the bill is theirs to pay, and we expect payment in full not waiting on insurance. BUT occasionally there is one customer that does not comply.

[Sparky555]

I'm saying that there's just a million and one excuses, and promises never hash out once the problem is solved. I almost feel like I'm wakling on egshells when I break the news to a homeowner about high dollar unplanned expenses. I don't feel that way if they called me to look at non-emergent work.

As with any residential service, you're the hero of the day. After that the value depreciates rapidly. Without a past payment history I always collect at the end of service. I also get the contract signed before the work begins. All my past problems have been with invoicing after repairs without a contract.

Dave

[zog]

Guy calls me up at 11 pm several years back. Has a yogurt franchise. His freezer breaker keeps trippin. He stands to loose about 40k if the stock yogurt strain in the walk in gets above a certain temperature. It's raining real hard outside, the kind you can only experience in Hawaii and Southeast Asia. I go there. Leak in the roof dripping onto a 2" emt conduit and water getting in thru a well tightened set screw coupling above the lift out ceiling tile. I found the water to be following down the inside of the conduit onto a main breaker in the panel. I guess the rainwater picked up a good dose of electolytes while pooling up on the roof cause it caused a mini ark blast at the circuit breaker. I drove back to the shop and got a 3 pole 100a replacement breaker, go back and install it, and all is well. Except that he stiffed me on the bill. That was then, and now its paypal upfront for any emergency call out. Hard lessons learned.

Try putting 5kV vaccuum breakers on a Private jet early sunday morning to fly 2000 miles with a crew to replace bus details in switchgear and a breaker following an arc flash taking down a large plant costing $100,000 /hr to be down and get stiffed with the bill. We saved you how much by doing this?

[emahler]

Try putting 5kV vaccuum breakers on a Private jet early sunday morning to fly 2000 miles with a crew to replace bus details in switchgear and a breaker following an arc flash taking down a large plant costing $100,000 /hr to be down and get stiffed with the bill. We saved you how much by doing this?

more details are needed...give the back story

[Rockyd]

Where I work at, there are only a couple of emergencies...


1) Did you dump the Halon?

2) Did you shut the pipeline down?

Followed by, did anyone get injured? If not, I'm sure it's nothing money can't fix!

[zog]

more details are needed...give the back story

Cant name companies, we did eventually get paid but I couldnt believe they even questioned the charges, how much do you think it costs to fire up a private jet on a whim and put a $20,000 VCB with 2 engineers and gear on it? This isnt joe plumber in his van we are talking about here.

We do this kind of stuff all of the time.

[brian john]

Zog:

Did the same thing with a for a firm that was in bankruptcy, demanded payment prior to starting work. Six months the lawyers are on us and want the full amount back. make a long story short 2 years later court ruled we had to give half back that with the legal fees we ended up with about 1/3 the project invoice. material was close to 1/2.

[iwire]

Brian that is just so wrong. :mad:

How long did it take for that not to bother you every morning?


I guess the lesson is don't even do business with companies in that situation, I assumed having the money upfront was enough.

[mdshunk]

Zog:

Did the same thing with a for a firm that was in bankruptcy, demanded payment prior to starting work. Six months the lawyers are on us and want the full amount back. make a long story short 2 years later court ruled we had to give half back that with the legal fees we ended up with about 1/3 the project invoice. material was close to 1/2.
Wow... thanks for that story. That's enough to make me not want to work for a company presently in bankruptcy under any circumstances. I was working for K-Mart already on a large job when they filed for bankruptcy, and it nearly sent me to the poorhouse, the nuthouse, and jail all at the same time.

[charlie b]

Brian that is just so wrong.
Regrettably, it is not wrong. A company in bankruptcy has many people to whom money is owed. Why should one get priority over all the others? If a large sum of money is paid to one party within a short time of the declaration of bankruptcy, that sum is considered to be part of the money available to all parties who are owed money, so the one that got the money has to give it back, in fairness to all the others.

So the right thing to do, as others have said, is not to do business with a person or a business in that situation. They have no money to pay you, because they have no money to pay anyone else, and you don't get "head of the line privileges." Sad, but reality.

[brian john]

My issue was they were going to completly shut down (when generators ran out of fuel) without the HV repairs. To make additional income and/or not lose more money they had to have this repair. That was our agreement..BUT they were not authorized to make this agreement and they knew it.


This was a long time customer, someone I had worked for and trusted.

I was ignorant of the bankruptcy laws at the time, I know better now. Had a similar situation and had to get the bankruptcy administrator to approve the expenditure.