Service upgrade

[Trovmar]

This may sound like a silly question but i have to ask it anyway. Recently i have noticed that next to the meter pan on some new and old houses that there is a circuit breaker in line with the feed. Is this the new code? Last week i did a service upgrade which hasn't been inspected yet and i am wondering if i am going to fail.:confused:

[iwire]

This may sound like a silly question but i have to ask it anyway. Recently i have noticed that next to the meter pan on some new and old houses that there is a circuit breaker in line with the feed. Is this the new code? Last week i did a service upgrade which hasn't been inspected yet and i am wondering if i am going to fail.:confused:

The NEC has not changed but each area enforces the NEC a bit differently.

How far did you run unprotected service conductors inside the building?

[Trovmar]

Approximately 4 feet. They run from the meter down the side of the house maybe 2 feet and then through an LB into the circuit breaker panel.

[iwire]

Approximately 4 feet. They run from the meter down the side of the house maybe 2 feet and then through an LB into the circuit breaker panel.

You can go as far as you want outside, once you get inside the disconnecting means must be 'nearest the point of entrance'. How far that is will be up to each area. In my area 4' would be OK, some areas 15' is OK and some only allow back to back installations with no distance inside.

[Trovmar]

Thanks Bob, but i don't think i explained the question correctly. What i was trying to ask was why is there a circuit breaker box installed next to the meter pan on the outside of the house. Is it so you can kill the feed from the pole to work on the meter? Or is it the new requirements for the 2008 NEC.


Thanks again.

[480sparky]

Sometimes it's just 'the way we do things around here.' Many areas commonly put a meter-main outside the house as SOP.
Sometimes it's a local code requirement.
Sometimes it's a POCO requirement.
Sometimes it's a building code or fire department requirement.

[iwire]

Thanks Bob, but i don't think i explained the question correctly. What i was trying to ask was why is there a circuit breaker box installed next to the meter pan on the outside of the house. Is it so you can kill the feed from the pole to work on the meter? Or is it the new requirements for the 2008 NEC.

Maybe I am still not following you. Are you sure the breaker is on the supply side of the meter?

Is this a 120/240 service?

If I see a breaker beside the meter on the outside I assume that the panel is to far inside the house to run the service conductors to without overcurrent protection.

[Trovmar]

Oh ok that might be it . I was curious because i only see it sometimes. I know in an apartment building were there is let's say 20 apts, there will be 20 meters on a wall with a circuit breaker next to each one. I guess thats because the run to each apt is to long.

Thanks for your help
:smile:

[emahler]

You are not really explaining yourself. There is a big difference between a 1 family and a 20 unit apartment. But in your area, the code dictates whether or not you have an exterior disco on the load side of the meter. JCP&L dictates whether you have to have a disco on the line side.
What side of the meter are you talking about?

[480sparky]

Oh ok that might be it . I was curious because i only see it sometimes. I know in an apartment building were there is let's say 20 apts, there will be 20 meters on a wall with a circuit breaker next to each one. I guess thats because the run to each apt is to long.

Thanks for your help
:smile:

That's called a meter stack, and is generally installed to 1. put all the meters in one place and 2. to protect the conductors as they are too long to be properly protected inside the building.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/meterstack2.jpg

[LarryFine]

I guess thats because the run to each apt is to long.Technically, it's because those runs are inside the building.

[tyha]

those disconnects are to disconnect power to the building they are connected after the meter

[mdshunk]

If you see 20 meters, you will often see one big disconnect before all of them to comply with the 6 disconnect rule. There will still be tenant breakers beside each meter.

There are two schools of thought with regard to this. Some people see a stack of 20 meters as 20 services, each permitted to have up to 6 disconnecting means, and they say you don't need a big disconnect ahead of the stack. Other people (like me) see 20 meters as one service, just metered 20 times, and thus needing a disconnect ahead of the whole works to comply with the 6 disconnect rule.

[ItsHot]

Outside disconnects are required in many areas. One reason is for the firefighters to kill power easily to a structure before entering the building, the other reason...so the brat kid down the road can shut off your power while you're on vacation, only to come home and find all your food in frig is rotten and inside air:mad: temp is 98!!

[480sparky]

.... the other reason...so the brat kid down the road can shut off your power while you're on vacation, only to come home and find all your food in frig is rotten and inside air:mad: temp is 98!!

That's why you get a padlock! :smile:

[mdshunk]

That's why you get a padlock! :smile:You might get a smile out of this. I always point out the padlock hasp on outdoor equipment to the customer like it's something special. Men, particularly, ooh and aah over it. Part of selling the sizzle.

[220/221]

The outside main is in case of a fire in the building, the firemen can quickly disconnect power.

Apparently not NEC but required in a lot of places like here (AZ)

[ItsHot]

You might get a smile out of this. I always point out the padlock hasp on outdoor equipment to the customer like it's something special. Men, particularly, ooh and aah over it. Part of selling the sizzle. Marc were you ever in the car sales biz?:grin:

[iwire]

The outside main is in case of a fire in the building, the firemen can quickly disconnect power.

Remove the firefighters from the earth and the NEC would still require an outside disconnect if the panel inside the house is to far inside.

[mdshunk]

Marc were you ever in the car sales biz?:grin:No, but I read a lot, and I'm here to tell you that this goofy stuff works.

[LarryFine]

I guess the firemen carry bolt-cutters.

[480sparky]

I guess the firemen carry bolt-cutters.

As well a gas-powered cut-off saws. Jaws of Life. Etc.

[iwire]

In the town I live the FD simply calls the power company for a disconnect. I hear it all the time on my scanner.

[LarryFine]

In the town I live the FD simply calls the power company for a disconnect. I hear it all the time on my scanner. So that's how Bob gets those jobs. He's a variation on the ambulance chasing lawyer. ;)

[mdshunk]

I hear it all the time on my scanner. :grin: When you retire, I predict you're going to be a shut-in, crazy cat lady. Except you'll be a guy. ;)

[peter d]

:grin: When you retire, I predict you're going to be a shut-in, crazy cat lady. Except you'll be a guy. ;)

When he retires?? What about now? ;) :D

[Pullnwire]

:grin: When you retire, I predict you're going to be a shut-in, crazy cat lady. Except you'll be a guy. ;)
And he will have 13,264,000 posts

[iwire]

:grin: When you retire, I predict you're going to be a shut-in, crazy cat lady. Except you'll be a guy. ;)

No freaking cats. :grin:

[hey_poolboy]

I recently had an inspector not allow me to install a service w/o a disconnect.
I had 10' of conductor outside, and 3' inside. He said he would only allow 5' total after the meter w/o protection. I simply opted for a meter main and all was well.
Yet, my own home with the same utility but different jurisdiction has aprox. 10' inside unprotected. I would be more concerned if my basement were usable, or finished, but my house is nearing 100 years old, and you know how those basements are.