motivating an employee

[LHarrington]

Good morning everyone,
Work related question about motivating employee's. I have one particular employee that I can't seem to get motivated. I try very hard to lead by example by being responsive, up beat, communicate well, concerned about my employee's well being etc... However I have one employee I can't get up to speed, Mechanistically he outstanding but his communication, appearance, enthusiasm and department involvement just don't cut it. To even talk to the guy its depressing and always ends up in a defensive conversation and frustrating. I have spent countless hours extracting this person talents and have now put myself in a spot where other employee's are suffering because of his lack off development. I just can't bring myself termination because of the relationship we have built and I want to make sure I have tried everything. Which brings me back you people for support and suggestions. Our evaluation process is very aggressive and rewarding however when I suggest to this person what he should do to improve he actually pouts for two or three days.

Thank you for you time
LHarrington

[fauxfly]

Mechanistically he outstanding but his communication, appearance, enthusiasm and department involvement just don't cut it. To even talk to the guy its depressing and always ends up in a defensive conversation and frustrating.

I think you've answered your own question, I had a guy like this once and his poor attitude spread through the shop like a cancer. He will eventually infect and affect everyone.

Think about it.

Good luck

Steve

[zog]

Yep, that will spread like the plauge, cut the head of it now. There are thousands of good maintenence guys in Michigan looking for work after the UAW cuts, your guy should be happy to have a job, most of those other guys sure would.

[LHarrington]

I will agree I probably have answered my own question however, did I fail as a manager or did he fail as an employee. That's where I struggling to make the decision. This is the main reason for procrastinating my forward movement.

LHarrington

[iwire]

He is not going to learn till it hurts.

[Buck Parrish]

I had a guy that was a good worker. But, sometimes he would be argumentive or wild mood swings.
I told him he should seek medical advice because I thought something was wrong with him.
He did. Turns out he is bi polar. The doctor put him on a anti depressant, now he's fine.
May be your guy needs an anti depressant.

[petersonra]

Does the guy do good work?

I don't buy the development crap. He either is doing the work you are paying him to do or he is not.

Not getting along well with his fellow workers is a bad thing but unless it is negatively impacting things in an articulable way, I would be inclined to leave things alone.

Firing someone like this is not likely to have the kind of beneficial effect on the other employees you might think it will. What they will remember is you fired him even though he did good work, and no doubt it will be spun that you fired him for not being a suck-up or some similar thing.

If he is worth the effort, keep on him.

If not, get rid of him. But don't expect it will be something you will be appreciated for by his fellow employees. It may take years to get past the bad effects of a decision to fire someone like this. I am not telling you it is a bad idea to fire him, just be aware that the negative effects of such a firing on the other employees may exceed the positive effects for quite some time.

[zog]

"I have spent countless hours extracting this person talents and have now put myself in a spot where other employee's are suffering because of his lack off development."

You seem to have done what you could. How old is this guy?

[James@CHA]

Good morning everyone,
Work related question about motivating employee's. I have one particular employee that I can't seem to get motivated. I try very hard to lead by example by being responsive, up beat, communicate well, concerned about my employee's well being etc... However I have one employee I can't get up to speed, Mechanistically he outstanding but his communication, appearance, enthusiasm and department involvement just don't cut it. To even talk to the guy its depressing and always ends up in a defensive conversation and frustrating. I have spent countless hours extracting this person talents and have now put myself in a spot where other employee's are suffering because of his lack off development. I just can't bring myself termination because of the relationship we have built and I want to make sure I have tried everything. Which brings me back you people for support and suggestions. Our evaluation process is very aggressive and rewarding however when I suggest to this person what he should do to improve he actually pouts for two or three days.

Thank you for you time
LHarrington

You can't fix it... He doesn't like his job most likely.

[iwire]

Firing someone like this is not likely to have the kind of beneficial effect on the other employees you might think it will. What they will remember is you fired him even though he did good work, and no doubt it will be spun that you fired him for not being a suck-up or some similar thing.

Bob what experience are you basing that on?

It's not about having a beneficial effect on the others it's about not letting the slacker have negative effect.

In my experience a 'slacker' even one that can do excellent work when they decide to do it, ALWAYS hurts the output of the rest of the employees.

Basically the majority of workers on a construction site only work as hard as you expect them to. Once you let one guy slow down the the others (at least most of them) will also slow down.

Maybe he is 'bipolar' not my problem, maybe he has family issues, again not my problem.

I don't want to sound cold hearted and for hard working employees I will do as much as I can for them. But I can not have a slacker slow things down, I can not sit in the office and tell the PM the job is running long because so and so has marital problems etc.

[LHarrington]

Zog,
He's 40 years old, No offense to anyone intended here but he constantly refers to when he worked on the farm and for relation in Alabama. He has lived in Michigan now for 15 years and been employed here at our company for 12 years and has work next to me for 6 years when him and I were the only two maintenance guy in the place. I'm afraid the company is going to out grow him if I can't get him to commit to his job and improve himself.

LHarrington

[barbeer]

Sounds like I used to work with his brother from Georgia.............."if you don't like this speed you really aren't going to like the other one, I only have 2!" Not that I am a tree hugger or belong to PETA, but he is the same guy that burned the cat's nose with his cigarette because it rubbed up against him.:mad:

[zog]

Reason I asked was it seems the younger people hitting the industry these days 9Again, no offense to anyome) expects to be coddled, hugged everyday, and told how special they are. There was a good article on MSN a few weeks ago about managers having to go to special training classes to learn how to manage this new generation. I was wondering if this guy was one of them.

[petersonra]

Zog,
He's 40 years old, No offense to anyone intended here but he constantly refers to when he worked on the farm and for relation in Alabama. He has lived in Michigan now for 15 years and been employed here at our company for 12 years and has work next to me for 6 years when him and I were the only two maintenance guy in the place. I'm afraid the company is going to out grow him if I can't get him to commit to his job and improve himself.

LHarrington
You want to fire a guy that has worked at your company for 12 years? because of what might happen at some future date?

[petersonra]

In my experience a 'slacker' even one that can do excellent work when they decide to do it, ALWAYS hurts the output of the rest of the employees.

Basically the majority of workers on a construction site only work as hard as you expect them to. Once you let one guy slow down the the others (at least most of them) will also slow down.
If he is indeed a slacker, cut him loose. I got the impression from the OP that the situation is not quite that simple.

[LarryFine]

. . . I have one employee I can't get up to speed, Mechanistically he outstanding but his communication, appearance, enthusiasm and department involvement just don't cut it. To even talk to the guy its depressing and always ends up in a defensive conversation and frustrating.
I fired that guy last year. I was wondering where he went.

[LHarrington]

You want to fire a guy that has worked at your company for 12 years? because of what might happen at some future date?


Don't misunderstand what I saying, I my opinion company can and will out grow there employee's, meaning replace you if you fail to change or grow with technology. You can't use yesterday technology today and expect to be in business tomorrow. Much like our professions (permission to compare myself to anyone reading) you need to stay updated to stay on top of your game. I fully appreciate that no one wants to do a bad job. Even though they may appear to or say that don't care, deep, deep down they are concerned. I have worked with a lot of people and as long as they had integrity and effort I have been able to tolerate anything.

LHarrington

[khixxx]

Fire the guy and his buddies may follow him.

Have you read the book 48 laws of power?

[LHarrington]

Fire the guy and his buddies may follow him.

Have you read the book 48 laws of power?


No I haven't, I'll check it out

LHarrington

[cschmid]

LHarrington we have a guy similar to that except he would blow up out of no reason..he had been with the company for 14 years when this started..he finally got medical treatment and part of t was EST (electrical shock treatment) this process took a couple of years and some part time work to recover but he is better now and does his job well and is making an effort to learn new technology..

just recently got his first email account..So being forty and maybe in a mid life crisis and again I can hear it is not our problem yet it is our problem I would recommend some counseling if you are in the position..it would be to all of your benefits and especially his to become healthy again and you get a good already trained employee back, it is cheaper then training in a new guy..

[s.sparkomatic.r09]

Smoke him now!! See ya!! There are one thousand guys behind him.

Always ez to hire, hard to fire. You as an owner have to get over it. Fire him right now.

Smoke em NOW!!

[DanZ]

Have you tried hanging any of these Motivational Items (http://www.despair.com/)?

I really want to hang some of that stuff in my office. :grin:

If this is a recent attitude change, he could be in a mid life crisis. If he's always been like this, it could be his style. Either way, have you sat down and actually talked about your concerns with him? It might help. If not, you can suggest counciling.

[s.sparkomatic.r09]

"I just can't bring myself termination because of the relationship we have built and I want to make sure I have tried everything." Boo whooo

What relationship? He takes your money and acts like an idiot?

You get work, get the supplies to do the work, handle the money, get the next job, AND PAY HIM.

What does he do that ten other guys can't do?

Tell "dumb-e-o" to take a hike.

I carried a couple of joe-six-packs around for 4 years, ditching those creeps was the best thing I ever did.

[peter d]

My vote is to send him down the river. I agree with the others, he is a dangerous cancer that needs to be cut out.

[480sparky]

Terminating employees (http://www.employeeterminationguidebook.com/).

[petersonra]

Terminating employees (http://www.employeeterminationguidebook.com/).

Interesting quotes I found on his web site.

For example, you wouldn’t fire a 22-year old male who sexually harassed a coworker… the same way you would fire a 63-year-old female who’s often absent for medical treatments.

How to fire for an improper reason and still get away with it.

After discovering how this system works, you’ll never be concerned again about terminating an employee.

How to fire the underperforming, chronically sick or disabled employee (including how to handle workers’ compensation claims)

[iwire]

How to fire the underperforming, chronically sick or disabled employee (including how to handle workers’ compensation claims)

Nice ......... :roll:

Under performing is a lot different then disabled.

Does this guy work for the insurance industry?

[Mike Burch]

You can't fix it... He doesn't like his job most likely.


I agree, sometimes it just won't work out.

[SmithBuilt]

He sounds like some one who may never have a good attitude about life, work or any thing else.

I don't think you have a chance at changing his personality. It is very hard if not impossible for someone to permanently change their personality.

[petersonra]

I agree, sometimes it just won't work out.It worked for 12 years.

[electricalperson]

did you bring him into your office and talk to him and try to figure out whats wrong?

[powerslave]

Is he aware that he is jeopardizing his job? If not let him know.

It's not your job to play babysitter, but make sure he knows that his job is hanging in the balance. Tell him he is a very capable mechanic, but his current attitude must change or else. If he does nothing about it you most likely have no choice but the inevitable.

[realolman]

Don't misunderstand what I saying, I my opinion company can and will out grow there employee's, meaning replace you if you fail to change or grow with technology. You can't use yesterday technology today and expect to be in business tomorrow. Much like our professions (permission to compare myself to anyone reading) you need to stay updated to stay on top of your game. I fully appreciate that no one wants to do a bad job. Even though they may appear to or say that don't care, deep, deep down they are concerned. I have worked with a lot of people and as long as they had integrity and effort I have been able to tolerate anything.

LHarrington
Do you own this company or are you a manager?

If you own this company, I would say you can do what you want. You may be able to do what you want if you're a manager also.

I have had to work for a guy who was literally functionally illiterate. He has been spoonfed everything, and still doesn't know much of anything... but he is the boss.

There is a big difference between having some kind of attitude because he's a jerk, or being justifiably offended or insulted because he has to work for a ignorant moron. Failure to suck up to a stooge should not be a firing offense.

Wouldn't be any of that going on would it?:smile:

[adamants]

negative breeds negative.
tell him to shape up or ship out. you are running a BUSINESS!!!!!!!

[Rawls007]

One thing I've done with underpar employees is to let them know that they're on the verge of being outright fired, but instead I suspend them for a week or two to let them decide whether or not they appreciate their job. If you can't get through by reasoning with them, sometimes hurting their pocket book is the only thing that gets their attention. People tend to become complacent when they've been working with you for a while and forget that they're position in the company isn't gauranteed.

[tonyou812]

negative breeds negative.
tell him to shape up or ship out. you are running a BUSINESS!!!!!!!
I totally agree, I understand that everyone has a bad day but some guys are just a black cloud no matter what you say or do. If the guy hasn't shown any change in attitude after a few months he'll never come around. Why waste your time and risk infecting the whole crew. IMO bad seeds can spoil the bunch. Bad attitudes rub off.

Maybe hes just in the wrong racket. Lots of people hate their jobs but just dont have the bullox to change their proffesions. Its easier for some people to do nothing than to make changes. And lets face it some people are just "broken" when they came from the factory (their childhood). I would try to help a worker the best I could but if they dont respond than its really not your problem. I personally would loose him. I like people that are self motivated, enjoyable to work with and like a good challenge. Besides "Theres no crying in electrical work"

[nafis]

He might needs a Therapist … Therapist….. Therapist .

[wawireguy]

Here's the thing.. Maybe you shouldn't try to make him into something he isn't but use the skills that he has. If he's not good with the other workers put him on jobs where he goes solo or does parts of projects by himself. If you think you can get a better employee consider laying him off. It's your job as the owner/sup to use your manpower to the companies best advantage. From what I've seen most electricians have social issues.

[quogueelectric]

Good morning everyone,
Work related question about motivating employee's. I have one particular employee that I can't seem to get motivated. I try very hard to lead by example by being responsive, up beat, communicate well, concerned about my employee's well being etc... However I have one employee I can't get up to speed, Mechanistically he outstanding but his communication, appearance, enthusiasm and department involvement just don't cut it. To even talk to the guy its depressing and always ends up in a defensive conversation and frustrating. I have spent countless hours extracting this person talents and have now put myself in a spot where other employee's are suffering because of his lack off development. I just can't bring myself termination because of the relationship we have built and I want to make sure I have tried everything. Which brings me back you people for support and suggestions. Our evaluation process is very aggressive and rewarding however when I suggest to this person what he should do to improve he actually pouts for two or three days.

Thank you for you time
LHarrington
Fire worked good for the scarecrow.

[Ranch]

I recall an employee years back. Skills A+, Attitude F

I couldn't afford to loose the skills, at the same time couldn't afford the negative impact on others.

At my wits end, I said “This is a free country and it was your decision to walk in the door today, don’t spoil it for the others”

It worked

[powerslave]

From what I've seen most electricians have social issues.


Hey man, I'm trying. People just make me nervous.:grin:

[wawireguy]

It's a crazy business and those that stick it out are not 100% sane so.. You as employer have to "deal" with it if you want good employess. Maybe the OP can figure out what is souring his otherwise good hand. Maybe the guy wants to move up in the shop or wants more responsibility or? I'd say ask him :)

[realolman]

....Maybe the OP can figure out what is souring his otherwise good hand. Maybe the guy wants to move up in the shop or wants more responsibility or? I'd say ask him :)

Exactly.

He might have a legitimate reason for what ever it is that ails him. The OP has asked for validation from everyone else in the world . Maybe ask the guy himself what's wrong....

Maybe the OP doesn't want to know.

[MAK]

Is it possible that the worker in question does not respond well to you and that his "poor" attitude is related to how he feels towards you? In other words he is tired of your crap.

Have you asked other employees how they perceive his attitude? I am wondering if he is harboring a grudge against you or if his attitude is the same with the other employees.

Another possibility is that he maybe scared or ashamed that he is not adapting to newer technology and is acting out in a negative manner. Is he not putting out enough work?

Anyway you slice it if his attitude is NEGATIVELY affecting your crew then he should be made aware that it is unacceptable and to shape up. You need to have a sit down with this guy and get your answers ASAP. Good luck with your decision.

[LHarrington]

Realolman,
Now that I have went back and proof read my post, I can fully understand why you had called me a moron and a dope in the private message I had sent you. Classic case of thinking faster than I can type. I normally spend most of my time on the floor working with the crew and only jump in this forum when I have time or a question. So unlike the situations you have apparently been through in your career this was quite different, I truly want to be proactive in this guy's career. Together we learn and make mistakes. My crew is very active in the everyday decision making process. So please try to find it somewhere in your mind to view me differently than the dope you had mentioned in the private message.
I appreciate everyones suggestions and the time spent reading even the ones that stung a little. Since posting this question on the forum this person and I have had the chance to sit one on one and talk about our problems and we have selected a direction. In summary he was under the impression because of the resent employment of a couple tradesmen from the Auto Industry that he was training his replacement. We had done this off site over lunch away from the everyday grind.

Thanks again everyone
LHarrington

[growler]

employed here at our company for 12 years and has work next to me for 6 years when him and I were the only two maintenance guy in the place.

There is your problem, the guy thinks of you as his buddy and not his boss.

There are a few people in this world that can be both friend and subordinate but most of the time you have to be boss first and friend second.

If you are the boss don't just make suggestions, tell the guy what you are going to expect in the way of performance.

[cowboyjwc]

If I understand correctly you have a team of people? Here's the problem as I see it.

If you have a ball team that's got the hottest pitcher out there, but he's a self centered, arrogant jerk, the rest of the team will not play "for" him. Intstead of making the extra effort in the field they tend to hold back and not give it their best. One of the reasons for this is that the team see's that the manager is giving this guy what ever he wants (not that that's what you're doing) and there are no consequences to his actions.

One guy can drag a team down.

Now I don't know if letting him go is the answer or not, but it does seem that you have tried everything in your power to change him, but my guess is he's been there to long.

Good luck.

[realolman]

Realolman,
Now that I have went back and proof read my post, I can fully understand why you had called me a moron and a dope in the private message I had sent you. Classic case of thinking faster than I can type. I normally spend most of my time on the floor working with the crew and only jump in this forum when I have time or a question. So unlike the situations you have apparently been through in your career this was quite different, I truly want to be proactive in this guy's career. Together we learn and make mistakes. My crew is very active in the everyday decision making process. So please try to find it somewhere in your mind to view me differently than the dope you had mentioned in the private message.
I appreciate everyones suggestions and the time spent reading even the ones that stung a little. Since posting this question on the forum this person and I have had the chance to sit one on one and talk about our problems and we have selected a direction. In summary he was under the impression because of the resent employment of a couple tradesmen from the Auto Industry that he was training his replacement. We had done this off site over lunch away from the everyday grind.

Thanks again everyone
LHarrington

Thanks for singling me out in a PM and giving me credit for what I haven't done. I'm beginning to see why this guy might be a big fan of yours, and why he would trust you.:mad:

Don't send someone a PM and then incorrectly spew in public what the guy responded.

You sent me a private message. I suppose because I was the only one who did not jump on the "fire him" band wagon. I replied to that message. I asked you why you sent me a PM rather than responding in the open forum. You never answered.

I did not call you a moron or a dope. I specifically said that I did not know you, only what you post.

It takes two to tango, and being someone's boss does not make you correct. It only makes you his boss. It gives you an artificial advantage over him that is enabled and sustained by the power of the company, not by your superiority , intellectually or physically.

I said that it sucks working for a dope, that I had to work for someone who was literally functionally illiterate. Not fun, and in my opinion not fair either.

You never did say whether you owned this company or are a manager.

I gave you a football analogy: How do you suppose Joe Montana would have felt, had he had to play second string to some second rate player... and that that second rate player at least in part got to determine who played and for how much money. Think there'd have been any resentment there on Joe's part? Think it'd have been justified?

I said that in corporations, similar thinking people often gravitate to each other. Dopes like dopes and they don't like people who are more competent than themselves. They like to hire dopes, because they are less threatened by them.

So who ends up being the odd man out. Not one of the dopes.

I know this post is too long, but I'm going to quote you some passages from a book On Paradise Drive by David Brooks:

If God is omnipotent, omniescent and good, why does he allow morons to succeed? One notices this phenomenon constantly; the most empty headed, asinine individuals float helium-like from plum post to plum post, without ever demonstrating extraordinary talent, original intelligence, or even a noteworthy grasp of the matters at hand. Often they have pleasant faces and a certain animal magnetism, and their ascent seems to be accelerated by the fact that they are not burdened by the weight of an interesting personality. They've somehow acquired the reputation of One Who Is Chosen, so that when leadership jobs open up, and selection committees meet, they are called.

Their unbearable lightness is pleasing to the selectors, who either want somebody safe and manipulable or are themselves members in the community of the eminently vapid. So the zero-gravity hero ascends one more level in his merit-free rise to greatness, where he will be in a position to promote other empty eminentoes, who will promote still more hollow leaders, so that gradually day by day, they will find themselves in a golden circle of high cheekboned innocuousness- girded on left and right by a band of pleasing, unoriginal, stress free, talentless paragons radiating benign self-satisfaction upon one another without end. Amen


I said that you should make sure you are worthy of being the other man's boss.

[mivey]

Well, that should about clear that up.

As for Mr. Brooks, I get my fix reading Dilbert cartoons.