ethics?

[tonyou812]

Since Ive been out on my own Ive been aproched by other contractors and builders that I used to work with when I worked for other bosses. I have declined 4 times already from 4 different builders just for the ethics of it all. But my question is at what point do these other builders become fair game? Usually I run into them in a deli or something and they say so were ya working now and I tell them Im on my own and they say "Do you have a card " and low and behold a few weeks later the phone rings. what would you do?

[brantmacga]

I've had the same thing happen. If they approach me, its fair game. When I left my employer, I actually got hired to finish some projects I was running with that company.

[Minuteman]

If you did not sign a no compete agreement with you previous employer, and you did not initiate the conversation, than you have done nothing wrong. Give them a bid on some new project.

However, if you left company X and the next day called customer Y and told them that you could beat X's price... than that would be unethical.

[quogueelectric]

Go for it full tilt because that is probably the way your old boss got started. This is not a warm fuzzy game. I am sure your ex boss is badmouthing you every chance he can get. It is the circle of life . The old lions get pushed out of the pride by the young lions who take over the pride. Hakuma matada hakuma matada................

[Minuteman]

Hakuma matada hakuma matada................
I think he just told you to spit on the dude's mother?

[realolman]

My opinion is except for using the details of specific uncontracted jobs, known to you because of having worked for your old boss, these other contractor acquaintences are fair game the minute you walk out the door.

[ultramegabob]

Personally, I wouldnt go around handing out cards to my former employers customers, but if the customer asks for a card and is shopping around and contacting me, then they are fair game. As much as you dont want to step on toes, it is going to happen in business...

[growler]

But my question is at what point do these other builders become fair game?

The day your boss stops paying your salary is the day you become a free agent either to work for another company or seeks work on your on behalf.

The only thing I wouldn't do is get cut throat. These guys probably want you because they have seen your work and they know what to expect ( not just cheap price). Go price the jobs to make money and if you get them it's great.

[brian john]

Free enterprise, if you solicit them while working for your old employer that IMO is wrong. Once on your own, you are there as a businessman, be fair, be honest, BUT they are fair game.

[powerslave]

Bidding against your former employer is going to be inevitable now that you are in business for yourself.

And from the OP it appears that you didn't go out and solicit these GCs. They contacted you.

I have bid against my former employer on many occasions. It's part of being in business.

[quogueelectric]

Just remember the jugular is on his right side so dont try to take him down from his left you will just get all messy. How many clients did he take when he got started? probably more than you think. Most of the guys I know who have done it have taken half when they left and they never shed a tear.

[480sparky]

If you did not sign a no compete agreement with you previous employer, and you did not initiate the conversation, than you have done nothing wrong. Give them a bid on some new project.

However, if you left company X and the next day called customer Y and told them that you could beat X's price... than that would be unethical.

In some states, a no-compete clause is worthless.

[Minuteman]

In some states, a no-compete clause is worthless.
I agree... but we are talking ethics, not legalities.

[JohnJ0906]

In some states, a no-compete clause is worthless.
I agree... but we are talking ethics, not legalities

I signed a 1 year no-compete clause when I started with my present employer. (Basically, I agreed not to advertise in his area for 1 year after leaving)
Legal or not, I will stand behind my word if and when the time comes.

[480sparky]

The 'no-compete' clause I singed at my last employed only stated that I would not actively seek out their current customers.

But if they call me, hey, they're fair game. It's called Free Enterprise.

Personally, and professionally, I would not have wanted any of their customers anyway.

And if we're talking about ethics, what is so ethical about your employer demanding you start out your own business with such a restriction?

[growler]

And if we're talking about ethics, what is so ethical about your employer demanding you start out your own business with such a restriction?

I think they just don't want you to down load their customer base and start sending them flyers ( there's a new kid on the block). If you just advertise in the phone book then there is nothing lost.

[bikeindy]

I don't seek out the contractors that my old boss had simply because I have a good working relationship with him still today. I even call him from time to time if I am bidding a project I think he may be bidding. Most of his contractors I don't want anyway they are slow payers and the work is a PITA. I have thrown him work and vise versa when we have something the other may be better at handling. If my relationship was different and his contractors were calling me because they knew the job would be done better by us and they weren't thinking they would get some better deal I would give them a price.

[adamants]

when i left my last employer, i sat down and made a deal with them, that they would pass all the alarm work on to me, and i would leave all their customers alone. about a month after i left, they started to train someone else up in alarms! so i beat them at their own game, i poached the newly trained employee for myself :D now if they want alarm work done, they have to call me, also their customers are now fair game. one of thei ex customers spends a lot of money with me quite regularly. if you make a deal, stick to it. get even!

[480sparky]

when i left my last employer, i sat down and made a deal with them, that they would pass all the alarm work on to me, and i would leave all their customers alone. about a month after i left, they started to train someone else up in alarms! so i beat them at their own game, i poached the newly trained employee for myself now if they want alarm work done, they have to call me, also their customers are now fair game. one of thei ex customers spends a lot of money with me quite regularly. if you make a deal, stick to it. get even!

In other words, lower yourself to their level?

[cadpoint]

What was the 90's buzz word > marketing ! The term, Networking, is its upgrade.

You've hung your shingle ! Your in Business !
Wait, why did you give them your card ?

I'm waiting to hear more of about the "pitch, in these conversations"!!!

[powerslave]

when i left my last employer, i sat down and made a deal with them, that they would pass all the alarm work on to me, and i would leave all their customers alone. about a month after i left, they started to train someone else up in alarms! so i beat them at their own game, i poached the newly trained employee for myself now if they want alarm work done, they have to call me, also their customers are now fair game. one of thei ex customers spends a lot of money with me quite regularly. if you make a deal, stick to it. get even!


I don't know about getting even, but I certainly wouldn't honor my end of the agreement if I saw what they did.

[nyerinfl]

when i left my last employer, i sat down and made a deal with them, that they would pass all the alarm work on to me, and i would leave all their customers alone.

Sounds like you were trying to strongarm them. Why should your company be indebted to you to prevent you from stealing their customers? As an employer I would never enter into a deal like that with a soon to be ex-employee.

[powerslave]

Sounds like you were trying to strongarm them. Why should your company be indebted to you to prevent you from stealing their customers? As an employer I would never enter into a deal like that with a soon to be ex-employee.


Regardless, they made the deal.

[nyerinfl]

Regardless, they made the deal.

The deal makes no sense, it sounds to me close to blackmail. "Supply me with work, if you don't I will steal YOUR customers." The topic here is ethics, and I think this is questionable, to put it lightly.

[petersonra]

Since Ive been out on my own Ive been aproched by other contractors and builders that I used to work with when I worked for other bosses. I have declined 4 times already from 4 different builders just for the ethics of it all. But my question is at what point do these other builders become fair game? Usually I run into them in a deli or something and they say so were ya working now and I tell them Im on my own and they say "Do you have a card " and low and behold a few weeks later the phone rings. what would you do?
there is nothing unethical or immoral, or wrong in competing with a former employer unless you signed some kind of non-compete agreement.

[cadpoint]

If you sign a piece of paper what does it mean... It sound like a gentleman's agreement!

Frankly, I thought it was harsh OA, you do not, nor I know all that was involved in that conversation as to the nature of what both parties had to protect!

Seems all betting is closed on that, just the same!

[EBFD6]

I Have worked for 3 different contractors in my career as a service electrician. While working for company #1 I did quite a bit of work at a precast concrete plant. The plant maint. engineer was very happy with the work I did and basically would call and request the company to send me to his facility (rather than one of the other 5 service guys who worked for my company). Our company cell phones had no service in the area of this plant and the facility was rather large so I had given my personal cell number to the engineer to get a hold of me with.

I eventually left company #1 and went to work for company #2. After about 3 months I get a call on my cell from the plant engineer saying he had been using company #1, but was not happy with the guys they were sending and he wanted me to talk to my new boss about doing some work at his plant. HE CALLED ME! I did not lose a wink of sleep over it.

After some time I left company #2 and went to work for company #3. This time my phone rang after only a week and as before, HE CALLED ME! Again I had no trouble sleeping.

Business is business! (or so I've been told)

[Minuteman]

If you sign a piece of paper what does it mean... It sound like a gentleman's agreement!

Frankly, I thought it was harsh OA, you do not, nor I know all that was involved in that conversation as to the nature of what both parties had to protect!

Seems all betting is closed on that, just the same!
What is your "word" worth?

[360Youth]

I would not go after a former employer's customers. If they came to me then it is fair game, but even then I may ask why they chose to do so. A current GC of ours called several years ago to do a home. I asked why us and not his current EC and it basicly boiled down to his dissatisfaction with their ability on the larger custom homes. I had done a house for him a few years before that working for another EC. If your conscience is clean about it (providing you have one :wink: :D ) then it is all you can do. No matter how fairly or innocently a customer is acquired somebody somewhere is losing out and they are probably not going to take it well, so be prepared. Our salesman feels we just recently became a temporary bad guy because an HO bought a generator from us that the EC was trying to sell on their end. But the HO came to us and we offered the better deal. Apparently there is now some tension between EC and HO and probably some bitterness towards us, but what are we going to do.

[cadpoint]

What is your "word" worth?

A lot, I'm caring some patents to the Grave, how about U... !

[mdshunk]

Lacking a no-compete, how would those customers not be fair game? I have been known to quote "All I want in life is an unfair advantage". :) If I see a lever, I'm going to use it to pry my way in.

[tonyou812]

thanks people that makes me feel alot better about it. I can honestly say Ive worked for a couple of real cool dudes but they would do the same to me in a heart beat. And my last short gig was with this one dude after I got my license and he wanted me to say on "tape" I wont go after his customers and let me tell you he had some real fat ones. I would love to get some of those.

[adamants]

Sounds like you were trying to strongarm them. Why should your company be indebted to you to prevent you from stealing their customers? As an employer I would never enter into a deal like that with a soon to be ex-employee.
part of the deal i made, was that i had to purchase all of the alarm stock off them, at cost price, regardless of if i wanted it, because they were "going out of doing alarms" because i was the only one who knew how to do them