Resi service call, or STL

[chris kennedy]

I've been putting off this service call for two weeks. I want there this morning. I know some of you see this kind of stuff all the time but I was tickled to say the least.

1969

1970

Anyone have a problem with this install?

I'll post another pic in a min with 'another quality install by... sticker on the cover.' (wifes calling)

[Dennis Alwon]

Looks like a sq. D sticker with GE breakers. How did that happen--- someone change the guts???

edit: Oh yeah I just saw the cover:smile:

[barbeer]

Nice! their FE is out of date.:)

[jimport]

Who needs a fire extinguisher? Isn't the good luck from the horse shoes enough?

Or are you just fishing for comments?

[chris kennedy]

This is pretty crafty.

1971

Note the wood the tomb stones are fastened to.

[Rampage_Rick]

This is pretty crafty.I was just talking with a receptionist about how Filipino callers pronounce Fs as Ps (As in "My pone number is pore pive nine...") So immediately as I read that post I replaced the F in 'crafty' with a P.

[480sparky]

Were you on your way to the lake to go fishing, Chris?:grin:

Anyone have a problem with this install?

Yea, the phases marked on the half-size breakers are A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B. They should be A-A-B-B-A-A-B-B.

[76nemo]

That looks like "C" cord on the bottom two right breakers from my house. Please tell me I'm wrong:rolleyes:

[ultramegabob]

Were you on your way to the lake to go fishing, Chris?:grin:



Yea, the phases marked on the half-size breakers are A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B. They should be A-A-B-B-A-A-B-B.


they are indicating which half of that breaker with the "A" and "B" markings, on the legend it would typically read something like 26a. den lights 26b. den recepts

[Dennis Alwon]

they are indicating which half of that breaker with the "A" and "B" markings, on the legend it would typically read something like 26a. den lights 26b. den recepts

I agree those are not phase markers but twin breaker a's and b's

[220/221]

the phases marked on the half-size breakers are A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B. They should be A-A-B-B-A-A-B-B.

Those GE twins are different for "normal" twins. The stabby parts are offset so I think they are labeled correctly.

What do you call the part of the breaker that contacts the bus?? My mind seems to have shut down.

[augie47]

I cant' find

[augie47]

I cant' find Square D catalog old enough to list a FSM-8M.
Nice interior change-out :smile:

[480sparky]

Those GE twins are different for "normal" twins. The stabby parts are offset so I think they are labeled correctly....

Don't think so.... how could the first one on the left side attach to the same part of the bus bar that the full-size THQL 30amp 2-pole is attached to?

Of course, we're assuming there's MWBC attached to these half-size breakers.....

[LarryFine]

The A's and B's are correct. They denote breaker numbers, not phases. (Why would a homeowner care about phasing?)

GE twins are merely tandems in separate cases. The GE panels that accept them have little cross-bars on the stabs. Notice that full-size GE breakers have +shaped stab slots.

The main advantage over other manufacturers' tandems is mixing and matching breaker sizes, although some other breakers are available in mixed sizes.

You can also get half-sized GE 2-pole breakers that straddle the two phases, like triple and quad tandems, and like the old half-sized Federal/pacific 2-poles.

[480sparky]

The A's and B's are correct. They denote breaker numbers, not phases. (Why would a homeowner care about phasing?)


If a H.O. doesn't care about phasing, then who would have put the As and Bs on the breakers?

If they are correct, then again I ask, how could the first one on the left side attach to the same part of the bus bar that the full-size THQL 30amp 2-pole is attached to?

In other words, how can the half-size breaker marked with the red dot be attached to the same bus bar as the full-size breaker portion marked with the blue dot?

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/gephasing.jpg

[220/221]

The A's and B's are correct. They denote breaker numbers, not phases


Ahhh...got it

[LarryFine]

In other words, how can the half-size breaker marked with the red dot be attached to the same bus bar as the full-size breaker portion marked with the blue dot?

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/gephasing.jpg It isn't. The first A, with your red dot, and the B directly below it, both land on (let's call it) A phase. That means space 13A and 13B. That's why there are two red wires on it; the corresponding blacks are correctly on 15A and 15B.

If the tandems were 2-pole breakers, the A with the red dot would still be a single-pole breaker. The first 2-pole would be 13B and 15A, the next would be 15B and 17A, and the group would end with another half-sized single pole.

[480sparky]

It isn't. The first A, with your red dot, and the B directly below it, both land on (let's call it) A phase. That means space 13A and 13B. That's why there are two red wires on it; the corresponding blacks are correctly on 15A and 15B.

If the tandems were 2-pole breakers, the A with the red dot would still be a single-pole breaker. The first 2-pole would be 13B and 15A, the next would be 15B and 17A, and the group would end with another half-sized single pole.

"I see!", said the blind man!

[bikeindy]

"I see!", said the blind man!

please finish the saying...

As he picked up his hammer and saw.

I use to know a guy in the USAF who always said, "Now thats the pot calling the kettle."

[All Amped Up]

Another Quality Installation by BUTCH & HACK'S ELECTRIC. For Service Please Call 911

[LarryFine]

please finish the saying...
"For God's sake, finish your sentence!" ~ The motorcycle cop in Wild Hogs

[peter d]

Anyone have a problem with this install?

Yes, how could someone take a Square D panel and ruin it by putting GE guts in it???? :confused:

[frizbeedog]

Yes, how could someone take a Square D panel and ruin it by putting GE guts in it???? :confused:

I was afraid to say so, but I'm glad someone noticed that.

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes, how could someone take a Square D panel and ruin it by putting GE guts in it???? :confused:

Personally I don't see a problem with it other than asthetics. If the unit is grounded etc .... We often take electrical equipment and mount it in another companies can. Legally I am not sure but functionally I don't see the problem.

Let me clarify that I would not do this install. I would have changed the panel box entirely.

[220/221]

Let me clarify that I would not do this install. I would have changed the panel box entirely.

When there is a lot of conduit involved or it's a recessed panel, I tend to just change out the guts...... as long as the cover fits properly. I would try to use the same brand but really, the electrons don't care what brand the enclosure is. It's just a rectangular steel box.

[The Iceman]

It looks like the panel is up against the wall on the right. How does the cover fit on the panel? Did they cut off the right side of the flush mounted cover so it would fit?

[peter d]

It's just a rectangular steel box.

Yes, but I can't understand why someone would replace something high quality (Sq D) with bottom of the barrel (GE.) Not only that, unless it was Sq D X0 (which it could very well have been) retrofitting Sd D guts into a Sq D can shouldn't be too difficult.

[480sparky]

Yes, but I can't understand why someone would replace something high quality (Sq D) with bottom of the barrel (GE.) Not only that, unless it was Sq D X0 (which it could very well have been) retrofitting Sd D guts into a Sq D can shouldn't be too difficult.


Money. Not everyone drives a Porsche.

[peter d]

Money. Not everyone drives a Porsche.

Well obviously that's the reason, but I guess I'm just really getting hung up on the GE stuff.....

[mivey]

Well obviously that's the reason, but I guess I'm just really getting hung up on the GE stuff.....GEphobe!:smile:

[220/221]

Yes, but I can't understand why someone would replace something high quality (Sq D) with bottom of the barrel (GE.)

Maybe that's all they could find that would fit the enclosure??

Maybe there wasn't a SqD supplier in the area???

Maybe they had the GE kicking around in their warehouse???

Maybe they just wanted to piss you off???


I'm going with #4

[peter d]

Maybe they just wanted to piss you off???


I'm going with #4

Hey, if someone wants to install junk in the place of Sq D, be my guest. As long as it's not on my property. :cool:

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes, but I can't understand why someone would replace something high quality (Sq D) with bottom of the barrel (GE.)

I totally disagree with your assessment of the GE panel. I find sq.d to be of no better quality, in fact, their homeline product stinks.

Only one supplier in our area stocks SQ.D and on resi work I haven't seen a sq.D panel install in 30 years except for those that have used the unbearable homeline.

[peter d]

I totally disagree with your assessment of the GE panel. I find sq.d to be of no better quality, in fact, their homeline product stinks.


I can see where this is going, so we will have to agree to disagree. Short of using bolt on's or QO for everything my next choice is Homeline, with GE dead last.

But to each their own. :cool:

My problem with GE is not the panels, but the breakers. They are know for buzzing for a few seconds then tripping on a short circuit condition.

[iwire]

Hey, if someone wants to install junk in the place of Sq D, be my guest. As long as it's not on my property. :cool:

To me they are all the same, each has good and bad points so I went with price. :grin:

HD had a good deal on a GE 200 MB load center with a bunch of breakers included. 8-)

[480sparky]

...My problem with GE is not the panels, but the breakers. They are know for buzzing for a few seconds then tripping on a short circuit condition.

So your complaint is what?

[peter d]

HD had a good deal on a GE 200 MB load center with a bunch of breakers included. 8-)

They have them on Sq D as well. :cool:

[Dennis Alwon]

My problem with GE is not the panels, but the breakers. They are know for buzzing for a few seconds then tripping on a short circuit condition.

Interesting. I have used them for the last 5 or 6 years without any issue. I have never had an arch fault issue, no buzzing etc. I was reluctant to change from CH but I did when my supplier dropped them. I have used CH since but I think I prefer GE. But as you say-- to each his own.

[peter d]

So your complaint is what?

The breakers are inferior.

I briefly worked for an electrical supplier that was a major GE distributor. We would constantly get returns on breakers that were junk right out of the box (mostly the handles being stuck open, closed, or middle position). And those were the ones that guys actually returned. Many of them told us that they just threw the junk ones away.

[480sparky]

The breakers are inferior.

I briefly worked for an electrical supplier that was a major GE distributor. We would constantly get returns on breakers that were junk right out of the box (mostly the handles being stuck open, closed, or middle position). And those were the ones that guys actually returned. Many of them told us that they just threw the junk ones away.


Every manufacturer has that problem. It's a result of mass-production.

[iwire]

They have them on Sq D as well. :cool:

Yes, they did.

[peter d]

Every manufacturer has that problem. It's a result of mass-production.


Yes, some are just better at it than others. And IIRC, Sq D still has some breakers that are made domestically. The QO series I believe? And in Iowa, no less?

[peter d]

Look guys, I'm trying really hard to get my kickback from Sq D, and you sure are making it difficult! :D

[Dennis Alwon]

Look guys, I'm trying really hard to get my kickback from Sq D, and you sure are making it difficult! :D

You know you can't bad mouth products that others are fond of. Well you can but you will hear about it. :grin:

[peter d]

You know you can't bad mouth products that others are fond of. Well you can but you will hear about it. :grin:

Yeah, Ford, Chevy, Dodge...same thing....

I personally would not drive a truck with a blue oval on it.

(runs for cover)

:D

[mivey]

Yeah, Ford, Chevy, Dodge...same thing....Don't turn this into something personal.:grin:

[220/221]

Sq D still has some breakers that are made domestically. The QO series I believe?

Give them a call and tell them to redesign their terminal lugs so the wire goes straight in instead of being angled from the back.

[c2500]

Well, I think GE needs to improve their quality. If I hear there is a problem with a breaker tripping , and it is GE, my response is to replace the breaker. This cures the problem 90% of the time. If it was a CH, my response would be something is not right in line after the breaker, with a breaker issue being the last resort.

c2500

[r_merc]

I have been installing GE Panels for 8 yrs plus without problems or call backs. Each brand has its own strenghts. Personally I think QO is a nice panel but over priced: accessories (ground bars, mechanical interlocks, Breaker handle locks....) are expensive. Homeline Is a cost effective panel but nothing spectacular. Not too much experince with CH BR or CH equipment Siemens has a decent product CU buss bars many things but also AL Buss bars. GE Tinned CU Buss Bars and some installer friendly desing features.
Now having said all that. If it is a product that suits the installer and the customer.... then go with it.

Who ever did thid install did a good job lining up the guts and the new cover. I don't see a problem here other than your preference for SQ D

Rick

[quogueelectric]

I like GE.