Special Bell Box

[Sparky555]

I need to mount exterior lanterns on brick with surface conduit. If you've ever done that with an exterior round box it can be ugly because the diameter of the box is smaller than the diameter of the light fixture. The conduit needs to run vertically from the box, so it needs a threaded hole on the bottom. I couldn't find anything at Arlington, anyone know another manufacturer?

Dave

[Dennis Alwon]

I need to mount exterior lanterns on brick with surface conduit. If you've ever done that with an exterior round box it can be ugly because the diameter of the box is smaller than the diameter of the light fixture. The conduit needs to run vertically from the box, so it needs a threaded hole on the bottom. I couldn't find anything at Arlington, anyone know another manufacturer?

Dave

Bell boxes have threaded holes but how would you make this box wp with a lantern canopy over it.

How about Red Dot, Perfectline, or Raco

[Sparky555]

Bell boxes have threaded holes but how would you make this box wp with a lantern canopy over it.


Exactly the problem.

Dave

[220/221]

Is the lantern canopy deeper that 1/2 emt?

Even though it's a masonary wall and metal canopy, it wouldn't be code compliant to install without a JB. ;)

Can you run the cable inside and drill thru horizontally into the back of a pan box???

[Sparky555]

Is the lantern canopy deeper that 1/2 emt?

Even though it's a masonary wall and metal canopy, it wouldn't be code compliant to install without a JB. ;)

Can you run the cable inside and drill thru horizontally into the back of a pan box???

No, I'm not running 1/2" emt into the lantern canopy. The HO doesn't want any interior destruction, so surface emt is the choice. Maybe I'll just have to do some custom carpentry & make a block to go around a box.

Dave

[Dennis Alwon]

No, I'm not running 1/2" emt into the lantern canopy. The HO doesn't want any interior destruction, so surface emt is the choice. Maybe I'll just have to do some custom carpentry & make a block to go around a box.

Dave

Dave is it possible to pipe down the wall and then use an LB about one foot or so above the lantern. This way you can sleeve uf in the conduit and then fish it down the brick to a reg. box that you would have to cut into the brick.

[Sparky555]

Dave is it possible to pipe down the wall and then use an LB about one foot or so above the lantern. This way you can sleeve uf in the conduit and then fish it down the brick to a reg. box that you would have to cut into the brick.

It's possible, but it would double the time.

Dave

[Dennis Alwon]

It's possible, but it would double the time.

Dave

Time is money--- sometimes... Give the owner the option.. Building a chase is time and money also.

[hillbilly]

Something that I have seen if the light canopy is deep enough (deeper than a shallow pan).

Remove a small section (3/4" wd.) of the lip from a shallow metal pan, and attach the pan to the brick with the notch pointing up.

Drop down out of the eave (soffit) with small surface raceway (Wire mold) and run to the notch in the pan.

Use UF cable for the circuit wiring in the Wire Mold (exterior portion at least).

Mark and cut a notch in the light canopy to fit over the wire mold.

This allows the canopy to fit flush against the brick.

Install the light fixture and caulk the openings.

Code or no?....that's debatable.....:roll:

It worked and looked pretty good too .

Just a thought

steve

[220/221]

Notch out the mortar deep enough to legally accomodate the wiring and zig zag it down?

[LarryFine]

Sparks, as has been suggested above, you might still be able to come into the back of the fixture, and without wiring inside the structure. What is at the top of this wall? Is it residential or commercial? Is it a parapet wall, or is there an attic?

Every brick wall I've seen is either real brick (2 or more courses with studs or furring inside), brick-and-block (with cinderblocks behind, and as above), or brick veneer (with full studs and sheathing inside).

The point is that just about every wall has at least one decent space between the outisde and inside surfaces, and can be fished 99% of the time, if you're experienced, intuitive, and have the right tools for the job.

If there is any attic or crawl space with access, you can likely drill a hole through the brick, angling up if going up, and down if going down. Stop and carefully inspect any time you hit a void, and try each space you reach.

You can usually push a fishtape up or down, or drop a chain down. Having a spotter with flashlight is a must, and 2-way radios are a bonus. Paint or tape the end of the fishtape or chain white for easier spotting.

Three weeks ago, a customer moved, and asked us to relocate several fixtures from the old house to the new one, and of course, the livingroom had no ceiling outlet. Even better, the walls and ceiling were real plaster.

There were bedrooms above, and finished ceilings in the basement. There was a wall switch that controlled a receptacle in the baseboard on an exterior wall. After considering all options inside (none), I went outside.

The exterior was all brick, but the upstais walls were actually slate tile shingled roofing. It was what's known as a gambrel roof, something like this one (click for bigger):

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:jeKU2CIH4frbxM:http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/newEngland/GambrelRoofColonialHouse.jpg (http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/newEngland/GambrelRoofColonialHouse.jpg)

I realized that I could access the ends of the joists, as well as the top of the brick, if I could get inside the eave. I told her that we could cut out a section of the soffit and run the wire horizontally from joist space to stud space.

She didn't like my price, and got her carpenter to cut out and replace about six feet of the soffit. That was fine with me! I cut the hole with a 4" carbide holesaw, and removed the receptacle box from the baseboard.

We pushed a fishtape up from the receptacle box, and out from the ceiling hole, where we installed a fan brace and box. We did the whole thing in less than an hour, never made a scratch on the inside, and she was ecstatic.

Of course, we haven't seen your building yet, but there's just about no place that can't be fished if you try.

[LarryFine]

Note: if you decide to recess a box into the brick, make that hole first, and then work through that opening. It can give you more aiming space to steer your tape or chain in the right direction.

Speaking of Wiremold, while metal raceway outdoors is a sure rust job, they do make ceiling boxes that are somewhere aroun 8-9" in diameter. I don't know if they come in plastic.

You might be able to mount a siding fixture/utility base, also. See: http://www.arlcatalog.com/Siding/siding.pdf

[Sparky555]

Thanks for the replies (I just got back from an emergency). I don't see NM or UF as being appropriate materials for this installation. I looked through the Arlington catalog earlier & didn't see anything with a bottom KO. I hadn't considered fishing behind the brick. I'd be VERY afraid of pricing it in advance (which is my only way) & discover that there is 4"-12" of mortar at the bottom inside of the wall. BTW it's an old residential brick single & 2 story (multiple lights) with a tight roof & unfinished basement. I planned to go down.

Dave

[LarryFine]

BTW it's an old residential brick single & 2 story (multiple lights) with a tight roof & unfinished basement. I planned to go down.
Okay, now that we know this stuff, it's likely the inetrior wall is furred off of the inside of the masonry. Old houses used ballon framing, and most vertical spaces were continuous from top to bottom.

First, I'd go in the crawl space, directly below where you want ths light, and see if you can push a fishtape or fish rod up between the edge of the sub-floor and the masonry to the desired height.

If you can, you should be able to drill a hole in from outside, stop before breaking the wall, and drop a chain down to the crawl space. You might have to drill the sub-floor between the furring strips.

[aline]

Would one of these work.

Model 8161TR

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/brucepri/ArlingtonOutdoorFixtureBox.jpg

[aline]

Here's the link to the box pictured in the above post.

http://www.aifittings.com/whnew110.htm

[Sparky555]

BINGO!

Thanks, I didn't see that one.

Dave

[LarryFine]

Where's the fun and callenge in using that? ;)