Comparing Service rates, Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC [Archive]

Mule

09-09-2008, 10:06 PM

I have a question, rates in this area are much lower than some others, but my question is pointed more at comparing rates to plumbers and HVAC'rs.

Electrical here is $65, while plumbers and hvacrs are $75.....Do other towns have the same comparism? or are they the same in price?

I did a service call today as a result of a real estate inspection for a home sale today. I changed one QO240 and one GFI....and my labor would normally be $65, but for kicks I asked the plumber on the job as he was installing some combustion air tubes in the WH closet....he said $75 with $10 trip charge for the first hour...So I filled out my invoice and did the same thing as a test.....the customer called later after finding the bill on the counter and thanked me and said the check will be in the mail...

Comments??

emahler

09-09-2008, 10:07 PM

it's a miracle:D

Mule

09-09-2008, 10:11 PM

it's a miracle:D Your funny !! :smile:

peter d

09-09-2008, 10:17 PM

A plumber for $75 an hour??? I can pay to fly them out here, and still come out less than local plumber.

celtic

09-09-2008, 10:29 PM

...So I filled out my invoice and did the same thing as a test.....the customer called later ... and thanked me ...
Clearly, you are not charging enough if you were thanked :grin:

....and said the check will be in the mail...

Comments??

"The checks in the mail"

Now that's funny.
LOL

Mule

09-09-2008, 10:34 PM

alright :smile: the question should have been "how does the electricians, plumbers, and hvac'rs compare in price in YOUR town...."?

bobbyho

09-09-2008, 10:36 PM

I tried running a formula today do determine my breakeven rate. The formula was direct costs plus indirect costs/ billable hours. My answer came out to $76.14. That was before owners salary and profit. Unfortunately the way Quickbooks tallies it's reports (or more likely the way I set it up 10 years ago) dosen't really give concise numbers. So needless to say, I am probably missing numbers that have a significant effect on the rate that I have come up with. I am assuming that if I have all the numbers in place to really plug into the formula, I will come out close to $125.00 per hour. If anyone can help me out with this, I would appreciate it. The formula came from a book called "How Much Should I Charge" by Ellen Rohr. I also read her other book, "Where Does All The Money Go?" Anyone who says small, one man shops operated out of their house don't have overhead (or low overhead) should read this before spasmatically typing "I work out of the house, low overhead":)

bobbyho

09-09-2008, 10:38 PM

By the way, I picked $40.00 per hour as a direct cost. I figured that is what I would expect to pay a journeyman an hourly rate and all the costs associated with them. I may be off on this too, I don't really know what electricians are paid "going rate" working for someone else.

celtic

09-09-2008, 10:39 PM

If anyone can help me out with this, I would appreciate it.

This may help you:
http://www.masterplumbers.com/utilities/costcalc/

(Pay no attention to the fact that it's a plumbing site that we EC's have to rely on)

emahler

09-09-2008, 10:43 PM

bobby, you are learning the truth....what most guys don't take into account is that the important number is 'overhead/man hour'

so, the 1 man shop does have almost no overhead, in gross numbers, compared to the 50 man shop...but he also has almost no man hours to cover this overhead, compared to the 50 man shop...

if a 1 man shop has 40 man hours a week, the 50 man shop has 2000 man hours per week (we won't even get into billable)

the 1 man shop has overhead of $1,000/month (or $250/week)...the 50 man shop has overhead of $50,000/month (or $12,500/week)

the 1 man has overhead of $6.25/man hour....the 50 man shop has the exact same overhead per man hour....

when you look into billable hours, the 50 man shop will have less overhead/man hour...

Mule

09-09-2008, 10:45 PM

plumbers? HVAC'rs?

emahler

09-09-2008, 10:53 PM

plumbers? HVAC'rs?

they worry more about their families and their employees, and charge the customers enough to provide a good life for them....

and yes, as a general rule of thumb, they charge more here in NJ too..

peter d

09-09-2008, 10:56 PM

and yes, as a general rule of thumb, they charge more here in NJ too..

Same here....I find the flat rate P/HVAC/R companies especially impressive. A few of them advertise on the radio with some very catchy ads.

Mule

09-09-2008, 10:56 PM

they worry more about their families and their employees, and charge the customers enough to provide a good life for them....

and yes, as a general rule of thumb, they charge more here in NJ too..

We here we dont care about families, every one is broke, and our life is awefull....

But thanks for the last sentence.....

peter d

09-09-2008, 10:58 PM

We here we dont care about families, every one is broke, and our life is awefull....

I don't think he said that, did he? What he is pointing out is that EC's generally lag behind plumbers in this regards.

brian john

09-09-2008, 10:58 PM

In the washington metro area they seem to charge more also (based on comments of my EC customers.

bobbyho

09-09-2008, 10:58 PM

Using that calculator, I came in at 90.16 per hour. I did not enter a rent amount seeing that I am working out of the house. (Hypocrite:D) I debated whether or not to though. If I ever moved out of the house and got a shop, I would need to consider a rent or mortgage in the equation, thereby givng me a much different rate.

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:00 PM

I don't think he said that, did he? What he is pointing out is that EC's generally lag behind plumbers in this regards.

Originally Posted by emahler
they worry more about their families and their employees, and charge the customers enough to provide a good life for them....

peter d

09-09-2008, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by emahler
they worry more about their families and their employees, and charge the customers enough to provide a good life for them....

Yeah, he said they worry MORE about their families. But emahler can defend himself without me, so I defer...

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:03 PM

ah...mule learned something in this situation...but my guess is his username is what it is for a reason...:D

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:04 PM

So, I'm curious as to why these trades are typically higher?

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:07 PM

So, I'm curious as to why these trades are typically higher?

as a general rule? they look at each other as fellow tradesmen, not competition...they talk to each other..and they don't pride themselves in winning work by cutting the other guys throat...

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:08 PM

ah...mule learned something in this situation...but my guess is his username is what it is for a reason...:D

You still have dirty laundry to wash, so go right ahead....you just have a way of getting under my skin quickly, so Im naming you "Chigger" ;)

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:09 PM

as a general rule? they look at each other as fellow tradesmen, not competition...they talk to each other..and they don't pride themselves in winning work by cutting the other guys throat...

Is that right? tell me more

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:11 PM

You still have dirty laundry to wash, so go right ahead....you just have a way of getting under my skin quickly, so Im naming you "Chigger" ;)

name me what you want...and actually that wasn't directed at you...electrical, as a whole, is the most technical of the trade...we attract guys who are attracted to gears and gadgets...they spend more time learning how things work, then learning how to charge to make things work...Plumbing and HVAC are not as technical, and most guys that I have met in those trades, spend more time learning how to price correctly...why? i don't know...just my experiences...

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:15 PM

HVAC are not as technical, .

:roll: ................

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:21 PM

:roll: ................

we do both...it isn't...they don't have a 700 page code book that updates itself every 3 years...

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:24 PM

My guess is that the average HO doesnt like plumbing at all, they know nothing about HVAC, but they can plug and switch like a pro :smile: hence the lesser price

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:28 PM

that plays into it as well...

480sparky

09-09-2008, 11:30 PM

we do both...it isn't...they don't have a 700 page code book that updates itself every 3 years...

So how big is the UPC, and how often is it updated?

http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/110-7289-06product.jpg

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:33 PM

So how big is the UPC, and how often is it updated?

not that big, and most guys don't even know it:D...

make it perfectly clear, i'm not saying HVAC/R or Plumbing is not technical, i'm saying they are not as technical as us...

and from my experiences, the people I know in those trades, understand billing and business better than most of the electrical contractors I know.

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:33 PM

So how big is the UPC, and how often is it updated?

http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/110-7289-06product.jpg

Both of those codes are very very small in comparism to the NEC, and I dont believe that they derived from the NFPA

BUT their invoices however are bigger

480sparky

09-09-2008, 11:35 PM

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:36 PM

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Im still curious as to why these trades are higher? and how much higher are they?

480sparky

09-09-2008, 11:42 PM

FWIW, if plumbers did the variety of work electricians did, they would be installing fire sprinklers, swimming pools, build ponds, decorative fountains, lawn irrigation systems....

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:43 PM

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:44 PM

Im still curious as to why these trades are higher? and how much higher are they?

there are a million reasons...they both have a lot more 'emergency' calls...how many 1 man hvac contractors have you ever seen? almost requires a minimum of 2 just because of the scope of work...

i'll say this, from my personal experience....HVAC and Plumbing can get higher rates than electric easily on the residential side...on the commercial side, the electric is usually even or better than them...

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:46 PM

FWIW, if plumbers did the variety of work electricians did, they would be installing fire sprinklers, swimming pools, build ponds, decorative fountains, lawn irrigation systems....

I agree very much, the diversity of the NEC is very intense, BUT for the resi, or more specifically, branch circuits it would some what comparable, would it not? I just think folks dont want to plumb DIY

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:50 PM

[QUOTE=emahler].they both have a lot more 'emergency' calls/QUOTE]

Another miracle !!! we agree on that one...:smile:

480sparky

09-09-2008, 11:52 PM

I agree very much, the diversity of the NEC is very intense, BUT for the resi, or more specifically, branch circuits it would some what comparable, would it not? I just think folks dont want to plumb DIY

I don't think you could even make the comparison between resi plumbing and resi branch circuits. We have AFCI circuits, tamperproof receps, GFI protection, 15amp 20 amp 30 amp, single pole, double pole, 20A SABCs and bath circuits.....

Resi plumbers need only remember four things: Hot, Cold, Waste, Vent.

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:55 PM

[QUOTE=emahler].they both have a lot more 'emergency' calls/QUOTE]

Another miracle !!! we agree on that one...:smile:

it's not that uncommon (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=802597&postcount=35)

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:55 PM

I don't think you could even make the comparison between resi plumbing and resi branch circuits. We have AFCI circuits, tamperproof receps, GFI protection, 15amp 20 amp 30 amp, single pole, double pole, 20A SABCs and bath circuits.....

Resi plumbers need only remember four things: Hot, Cold, Waste, Vent.

Ah the plumbing jokes.....anyone know what three things you must know to be a plumber?

480sparky

09-09-2008, 11:56 PM

Ah the plumbing jokes.....anyone know what three things you must know to be a plumber?

1. It runs downhill.
2. Pay day is Friday.
3. It's not plumbers crack. It's cleavage.

emahler

09-09-2008, 11:57 PM

1. It runs downhill.
2. Pay day is Friday.
3. It's not plumbers crack. It's cleavage.

nah, #3 is 'don't chew your fingernails'

Mule

09-09-2008, 11:57 PM

1. It runs downhill.
2. Pay day is Friday.
3. It's not plumbers crack. It's cleavage.

HA I guess there is four now....

4. Dont chew your fingernails

Mule

09-10-2008, 12:00 AM

OH those guys do a great job and they deserve their pay IMO

480sparky

09-10-2008, 12:01 AM

nah, #3 is 'don't chew your fingernails'

I've heard that one, long time ago too. I just substituted something I thought was better.

Minuteman

09-10-2008, 12:37 AM

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 12:50 AM

I just wanted to thank all you guys for the entertaining reading tonight. I had some good laughs

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 12:53 AM

Back when I worked in rural Oklahoma (oxymoron) the plumbing/heat boys got together once or twice a year at a local cafe' to discuss issues such as rates. I asked a few EC's if they would care to meet and they looked at me like a plow horse looking at a tractor.
I have heard other's say this in the past. It's too bad. I just don't understand the mind set of many EC's. Why they won't share. Like the plumbers do.
We all have seen this here on this site on occasion,

brantmacga

09-10-2008, 12:54 AM

i tell you this much, go to a plumbing forum and make a statement like "plumbing is way more technical than electrical" and everyone else would say "yeah, you're right"....

but, here, with electricians? we'll fight each other over it...thank you for proving my point...

:D that's an absolute gem :D

Mule, I'm not sure how long you've been in business, but it didn't take me long to figure out I'd rather be a good business man than a good electrician. Now don't take that as me saying you don't need to be a good electrician. Doing good work is a key to being successful as well, but not as important as knowing how keep the thing afloat.

Last friday, an electrician friend picked me up at the end of the day and asked me to ride around with him. He had to make a stop for a trouble call on a pool pump not working. On the way there, I asked what he was going to charge the customer. He said he didn't know. To keep it short; we got there and the problem was in the pump. Took about 5 minutes to come to this conclusion. I asked again what he was going to charge the customer. He said he wasn't sure because we were only there for a minute. I gave him a number to put on the invoice, my number in fact, and sent him in there with it. He came out with a big smile, but extremely confused that the customer actually paid that for us to be there for 5 minutes.

I'm in business to be in business, if that makes sense. I just happened to have some electrical skill so this is what I do. I really enjoy electrical work, but I wouldn't hesitate to put it down for something more lucrative. I may go further with this line of thought later, but I'm going to stop here and see where the discussion goes.

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 12:58 AM

:D that's an absolute gem :D

Mule, I'm not sure how long you've been in business, but it didn't take me long to figure out I'd rather be a good business man than a good electrician. Now don't take that as me saying you don't need to be a good electrician. Doing good work is a key to being successful as well, but not as important as knowing how keep the thing afloat.

Last friday, an electrician friend picked me up at the end of the day and asked me to ride around with him. He had to make a stop for a trouble call on a pool pump not working. On the way there, I asked what he was going to charge the customer. He said he didn't know. To keep it short; we got there and the problem was in the pump. Took about 5 minutes to come to this conclusion. I asked again what he was going to charge the customer. He said he wasn't sure because we were only there for a minute. I gave him a number to put on the invoice, my number in fact, and sent him in there with it. He came out with a big smile, but extremely confused that the customer actually paid that for us to be there for 5 minutes.

I'm in business to be in business, if that makes sense. I just happened to have some electrical skill so this is what I do. I really enjoy electrical work, but I wouldn't hesitate to put it down for something more lucrative. I may go further with this line of thought later, but I'm going to stop here and see where the discussion goes.
Keep going with it brother. Please.

celtic

09-10-2008, 01:07 AM

Who else has subscriptions to trade magazines other than ones electrically related?

One of my personal favorites is:
Plumbing and Mechanical ~ http://www.pmmag.com/

Not all of the articles detail how to sweat the blind side of a pipe :)

Sign up here: http://www.submag.com/sub/vc?pk=torial

Rockyd

09-10-2008, 01:14 AM

Last friday, an electrician friend picked me up at the end of the day and asked me to ride around with him. He had to make a stop for a trouble call on a pool pump not working. On the way there, I asked what he was going to charge the customer. He said he didn't know. To keep it short; we got there and the problem was in the pump. Took about 5 minutes to come to this conclusion. I asked again what he was going to charge the customer. He said he wasn't sure because we were only there for a minute. I gave him a number to put on the invoice, my number in fact, and sent him in there with it. He came out with a big smile, but extremely confused that the customer actually paid that for us to be there for 5 minutes.

I believe that the average electrician misses the boat, when applying a labor factor of billing to the ticket. By the time a resi service call gets to an electrican, the home owner is exasperated, and can't fix "the problem", and will pay whatever it costs. Side two, the homeowner is a business person, and understands that they don't know the costs, but call "a dependable electric shop with lots of visibility in the community" and accepts the cost. The service electrician only sees it, from his perspective, not realizing the total value of his service.

If cheap is good, would you hire a cheap lawyer to defend you in a court battle? Of curse not! It's about the perception, of the goal, and how to get there.

ivsenroute

09-10-2008, 02:00 AM

In my area a good plumber who shows up and does a good job is a rare one so because of simple supply and demand, the plumbers are getting more money than the electricians. More DIY'rs are willing to do their own electrical work than plumbing due to all of the DIY books not to mention Lowes and Home Destruction.

celtic

09-10-2008, 02:12 AM

More DIY'rs are willing to do their own electrical work than plumbing due to all of the DIY books not to mention Lowes and Home Destruction.

There are plenty of DIY books on plumbing and the folks over at Terry Love's Plumbing Forum (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/) will answer any plumbing question asked of them.

I think it boils down to this:
A person w/o electricity, will:
- do w/o
- make do with x-cords, flashlights and candles
- ask a friend, neighbor, etc to bail them out
- buy a DIY book
- etc
All before calling an electrician

On the other hand....
A person w/o a functioning place to meditate will be on the phone to get a plumber almost immediately.

Why?
You can make do w/o electricity, but you can't make do w/o a toilet. :grin:

JES2727

09-10-2008, 08:04 AM

You can make do w/o electricity, but you can't make do w/o a toilet.
In other words, there is perceived to be a greater value attached to plumbing work. That's the answer to the OP's question, IMHO.

ivsenroute

09-10-2008, 09:02 AM

Excellent point Celtic

Minuteman

09-10-2008, 09:15 AM

You can make do w/o electricity, but you can't make do w/o a toilet. :grin:
Funny though, the "powers that be" here have ordained the electrical service as the stop gap for required completed inspections before CO. If any permit is left open (plumbing, gas, landscape, driveway, etc) then permanent power will not be released and no occupancy. They figure people will move in without gas or water, but not without electric.

jimmyglen

09-10-2008, 09:40 AM

great posts on this thread

Mule

09-10-2008, 09:46 AM

It REALLY amazes me, looking back at the beginning of this thread, re-reading the question, and the attempts to get the discussion back on track, and then looking at the direction that the discussion went. Simply amazing...then allowing myself to join in

Some of you, REALLY get hung up on the difference in rates, and I dont understand that at all. We even have a union shop in town that is well respected, its a large shop, that have full benifeits, vacation, the owner has a very nice home on a huge lake.....and they do it all on $65/hr. The public is happy, the union shop is happy, but some of you I dont think ever will be.

Maybe its our oxymorons riding plow horses not providing for their families. Yep that's it.

Neverless this thread has had some meaningfull comments, thank you...

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 10:32 AM

Mule this is a forum!! It's not a communist forum where you have to do exactly what you think it should be , the way you think it should be ran. So what if it gets off topic a little. It always gets back on track. Allot of good information came out of it because of that. Chill out and STOP being so sensitive.;)

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 10:34 AM

Oh I'm sorry I just went off topic because I shared my views. Where's the moderator at?

Mule

09-10-2008, 10:37 AM

[QUOTE=jmsbrush Chill out and STOP being so sensitive.;)[/QUOTE]

HA where have I heard that before?

jmsbrush

09-10-2008, 10:41 AM

Mule thats the first time I have ever said it.Well I better get some work done. Have a good day guys

aline

09-10-2008, 10:45 AM

I did a service call today as a result of a real estate inspection for a home sale today. I changed one QO240 and one GFI....and my labor would normally be $65, but for kicks I asked the plumber on the job as he was installing some combustion air tubes in the WH closet....he said $75 with $10 trip charge for the first hour...So I filled out my invoice and did the same thing as a test.....the customer called later after finding the bill on the counter and thanked me and said the check will be in the mail...
Do you plan on charging $75 with a $10 trip charge from now on or are you going to go back to $65?

Some of you, REALLY get hung up on the difference in rates, and I dont understand that at all. We even have a union shop in town that is well respected, its a large shop, that have full benifeits, vacation, the owner has a very nice home on a huge lake.....and they do it all on $65/hr. The public is happy, the union shop is happy, but some of you I dont think ever will be.
As long as electricians are happy with what they're charging the rates aren't going to go up. If electricians don't care that plumbers and hvac trades get more than it's not going to change.

You've shown that electricians can charge more if they want to. It's a matter of them wanting to. In my opinion, with the exeption of you, a lot of electricians are afraid if they charge too much they'll get a reputation for being overpriced, word will get around and they won't get any future work. Someone always has to be the highest priced. I would much rather push the envelope of being the highest priced than push the envelope of being the lowest price.

I was working with a GC building some manufacturing machines for an industrial plant. The GC does a lot of residential work and told me that plumbers and hvac contractors always charged more than electricians. He asked me why and I didn't know what to tell him.

I really don't know why this is but if electricians don't care it won't change.

There's a saying out there that goes:

"If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got."

Mule

09-10-2008, 10:46 AM

Mule thats the first time I have ever said it.Well I better get some work done. Have a good day guys

Thanks, not me I'm at home today nursing a twisted knee from working in a trench at a service station....got to get healed up, big job next week....Hope you make enough money today for both of us !!

Mule

09-10-2008, 10:49 AM

Do you plan on charging $75 with a $10 trip charge from now on or are you going to go back to $65?

As long as electricians are happy with what they're charging the rates aren't going to go up. If electricians don't care that plumbers and hvac trades get more than it's not going to change.

You've shown that electricians can charge more if they want to. It's a matter of them wanting to. In my opinion with the exeption of you a lot of electricians are afraid if they charge too much they'll get a reputation for being overpriced and word will get around and they won't get any future work. Someone always has to be the highest priced. I would much rather push the envelope of being the highest priced than push the envelope of being the lowest price.

I was working with a GC building some manufacturing machines for an industrial plant. The GC does a lot of residential work and told me that plumbers and hvac contractors always charged more than electricians. He asked me why and I didn't know what to tell him.

I really don't know why this is but if electricians don't care it won't change.

There's a saying out there that goes:

"If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got."

Great comments, I started a NEW post, polling about service rates that is location and population specific....it will be interesting

SEO

09-10-2008, 11:05 AM

brantmacga

09-10-2008, 11:11 AM

More DIY'rs are willing to do their own electrical work than plumbing due to all of the DIY books not to mention Lowes and Home Destruction.

i've seen DIY plumbing books as well; which leads me to believe people aren't doing their own plumbing simply because they don't want to get poop on their hands.

Mule

09-10-2008, 11:20 AM

i've seen DIY plumbing books as well; which leads me to believe people aren't doing their own plumbing simply because they don't want to get poop on their hands.

That probably true, and also funny.......

DanZ

09-10-2008, 02:01 PM

Well, it's updated at least every three years......

http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/7288-00.gif http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/7288-03product.jpg http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/110-7289-06product.jpg
Well, here in Ohio, we have our own plumbing and HVAC codes.
http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/120-3200-07product.jpg
http://www.constructionbook.com/product_images/120-3300-07product.jpg
They're about 200-300 pages, the last time I saw a paper format one. Updated every two years. Most of the requirements have been removed from the old thick books, and replaced with "use manufacturers instructions" or something similar. Now, if only we could get electrician's to read instructions...:roll:That was a joke! I'd still be happy to find a GC that can read a set of plans, or call and ask about something before he changes it and makes it not meet code!

Oh, yeah, I don't do DIY plumbing beyond a fixture, I don't do DIY HVAC replacement (although I have done repair on furnaces and ducts), and I don't do DIY electrical, beyond replacing existing switches, fixtures and receptacles. I have even done some sanitary line repair work, but it's alright, I wore gloves!:roll: :D

celtic

09-10-2008, 02:32 PM

That probably true, and also funny.......
It is true:
http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/82967133-68e1-4494-ab18-e5d27de47bcd_4.jpg
Plumbing 1-2-3; 224 pages; $16.47 @ amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Plumbing-1-2-3-Home-Depot/dp/0696222477/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221066817&sr=8-1)

I'll be starting a new business as soon as I finish this book:
http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/1a4b9e2d-e7fe-4b4e-bb39-a0c2cc97b6db_3.jpg

Building your own home for dummies; 384 pgs; $13.59 @ amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Building-Your-Own-Home-Dummies/dp/0764557092/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221066946&sr=1-1)

13.59
16.47
30.06 ~ woohoo, eligible for the "super saver" discount ~ free shipping!

One question though ... the "Building Your Own Homes for Dummies" book ~ Will the occupants be the "dummies"?
:grin:

DanZ

09-10-2008, 02:47 PM

One question though ... the "Building Your Own Homes for Dummies" book ~ Will the occupants be the "dummies"?
:grin:
Yes. :grin: Someone really needs to explain how hard it is to do this properly. I've talked with several people who insist all you need to do is talk to a builder, since an Architect is only there to take money...:-?
Have you thought about cold calling other ECs in your area to find out what they're charging?
If the customer is smiling when they hand you a check, you left money on the table. That can be a good thing! :wink:

celtic

09-10-2008, 04:20 PM

Have you thought about cold calling other ECs in your area to find out what they're charging?

If some unknown EC were to call you asking the same information, what would you reveal:
- A lower price...helping him to his demise
- A higher rate...helping him to his demise
- Your actual rate to confirm this is a capitalistic economy and you welcome the competition
- None of the above, ignore the request

Regardless of what your answer is, your answer only works for you.

If you were the one to be cold calling other ECs, what answer do you think they would give?
Again, it really doesn't matter.
EC "A" may be desperate for work or even clueless about pricing. You will soon join him working for EC "B"
EC "B" charges the most you have ever heard of! How can he do this and still stay in business? Good question, but is he being honest with you? Is it a highball number to satisfy some unknown schmuck? or does he actually know what his costs are? (Why don't you?)

You might as well as ask the bagger at A&P to set your rate.

Heck..even Big Blue knows this:
3 Common Money Problems & Solutions (http://www.lowesforpros.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleID=986)

2. Not Charging Enough
Your profit margin must be large enough to meet your needs. Looking at competitors’ prices to determine how much to charge your customers is the wrong way to go, Rohr says.
“Don’t look to the masses to figure out how much to charge because the sad and sorry truth is that a lot of plumbers don’t make much money,” she says.

(I don't necessarily agree with the use of the plumbing trade here ~ but any trade could used as an example.)

In the above article, Ellen Rohr is mentioned. I have a pdf by her entitled "How Much Should I charge?" - A good read for all.

DanZ

09-10-2008, 04:52 PM

If some unknown EC were to call you asking the same information, what would you reveal:
- A lower price...helping him to his demise
- A higher rate...helping him to his demise
- Your actual rate to confirm this is a capitalistic economy and you welcome the competition
- None of the above, ignore the request

Well, I was going for a more covert call. Along the lines of "How much y'all chargin to replace a light switch?", or "How much y'all charge to trouble shoot". Something along those lines. Cause I'm just sneaky like that. :rolleyes: :grin:

I think the better way to go would be to sell yourself, your service and get people used to paying higher prices.

celtic

09-10-2008, 05:06 PM

Well, I was going for a more covert call. Along the lines of "How much y'all chargin to replace a light switch?", or "How much y'all charge to trouble shoot". Something along those lines. Cause I'm just sneaky like that. :rolleyes: :grin:

Remember a few years back, the Big Box stores were "selling" "...any 3 devices swapped out for $99" (or some number).

They still do that work?

DanZ

09-10-2008, 05:19 PM

Remember a few years back, the Big Box stores were "selling" "...any 3 devices swapped out for $99" (or some number).

They still do that work?
That sounds familiar. I don't think the price included materials. They would typically sign up the low ball unlicensed contractor.

I don't believe they do. They lost too many good installers.

Actually, I think it was any three devices installed for $99. Removal (replacement) of the old ones, and all materials were extra.:rolleyes:

You could call them and see if they need any installers!;) :grin:

brantmacga

09-10-2008, 07:49 PM

They would typically sign up the low ball unlicensed contractor.

I'm pretty sure they weren't using unlicensed contractors. They don't do that even now.

emahler

09-10-2008, 08:23 PM

in many areas across the country HD contracts Mr. Electric to do all their installs...aside from a few 'loss leaders', the prices are determined by the local Mr. Electric...plus they get a $50 estimate fee....

aline

09-10-2008, 09:27 PM

i've seen DIY plumbing books as well; which leads me to believe people aren't doing their own plumbing simply because they don't want to get poop on their hands.
The reason people aren't doing their own plumbing is because when they do plumbing like they do the electrical work pictured below it leaks and they end up having to call a plumber anyway.

They can do their own electrical and even though it looks like the picture below it works so everything must be fine. No need to call an electrician.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/brucepri/P3010013.jpg

peter d

09-10-2008, 09:29 PM

The reason people aren't doing their own plumbing is because when they do plumbing like they do the electrical work pictured below it leaks and they end up having to call a plumber anyway.

There really is a lot of truth to that. People are a lot less willing to live with leaky pipes than they are with leaky wires.

aline

09-10-2008, 09:32 PM

There really is a lot of truth to that. People are a lot less willing to live with leaky pipes than they are with leaky wires.
They used silicone on the receptacle so the wires wouldn't leak.

peter d

09-10-2008, 09:36 PM

They used silicone on the receptacle so the wires wouldn't leak.

I see that, but they didn't silicone the wirenut so that is a potential leak point. ;)

DanZ

09-11-2008, 10:15 AM

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDepotCanada/images/catalog/1a4b9e2d-e7fe-4b4e-bb39-a0c2cc97b6db_3.jpg

Who wants to play "Spot the code violation" in book form! :D
I'm pretty sure they weren't using unlicensed contractors. They don't do that even now.
Well, it may be an urban legend, but I've heard horror stories of unlicensed contractors, although it could just have been hack contractors. Maybe they sent store staff out to a few calls!;) :D