View Full Version : Poll..Service Rates
Im hoping this will get definitive results.....How about a poll....
State your
service rates....
your state...
and the population of your town in which you do business.
I'll start
service rates $65-$75
Okra-homa
Town population 50-60,000
Sparky555
09-10-2008, 11:31 AM
There's something about this that is difficult for me to respond to. I assume a 50% production rate for residential service which means I can invoice 1,000 hours/years with employee type hours (2000/year total).
$65-$75/hour X 1,000 hours per year = $65-75k without allowing for the addition of material markup. $75k won't pay my salary & benefits, and I still have the overhead to pay. Personally I like my salary & benefits to be at least in the neighborhood of what I'd get as an employed electrician w/o the owner headaches.
Dave
There's something about this that is difficult for me to respond to. I assume a 50% production rate for residential service which means I can invoice 1,000 hours/years with employee type hours (2000/year total).
$65-$75/hour X 1,000 hours per year = $65-75k without allowing for the addition of material markup. $75k won't pay my salary & benefits, and I still have the overhead to pay. Personally I like my salary & benefits to be at least in the neighborhood of what I'd get as an employed electrician w/o the owner headaches.
Dave
It wasn't meant to judge one anothers rates, My area is obviously much lower than others. It's only to see what the service rates are across the nation...Do we need to re-phrase the question? Any help apreciated
There's something about this that is difficult for me to respond to. I assume a 50% production rate for residential service which means I can invoice 1,000 hours/years with employee type hours (2000/year total).
$65-$75/hour X 1,000 hours per year = $65-75k without allowing for the addition of material markup. $75k won't pay my salary & benefits, and I still have the overhead to pay. Personally I like my salary & benefits to be at least in the neighborhood of what I'd get as an employed electrician w/o the owner headaches.
Dave
Dave,
Mule is in Oklahoma. You don't have a location listed. I'm pretty sure that unless you are in Oklahoma, or close to it, the cost of living is much lower.
I hear their McDonalds doesn't have a $.99 menu, they have a $.69 menu...:roll: ;)
Mule, no offense! :grin:
-Dan
Oh, yeah, I don't get involved in the billing. All I know is we charge enough to keep me employed with a decent wage and benefits while keeping the lights on.:cool:
electricguy61
09-10-2008, 11:57 AM
Two man crew (journeyman & apprentice): $150 1st hour, including drive time, $135 per hour thereafter
Journeyman: $125 1st hour, $95 thereafter
San Francisco Bay Area, California
growler
09-10-2008, 12:32 PM
It wasn't meant to judge one anothers rates, My area is obviously much lower than others. It's only to see what the service rates are across the nation...Do we need to re-phrase the question? Any help apreciated
Mule if it makes you feel any better I don't think your rates are so low it's the way you bill them.
Example: $75 an hour service rate. You go to a commercial service call and bill for $75 and that's it. If you get the money then all you get is a check for $75.
I go to the same commercial service call with a two hour minimum and bill at $75 and hour. 2 X $75 = $150.00 labor cost + $37.50 Admin & Travel within 10 miles = $187.50. If over 10 miles there is an additional fuel charge.
$187.50 - $75 = $112.50 difference in bill useing the same $75 and hour rate.
Even useing the same rate, you are at less than 50% of cost but that not the bad thing. If overhead runs around say $20 an hour ( this overhead must be calculated for each billable hour and not at 8 hours a day) then we would both have around $40 to $60 invested in the job and you would only clear $35 ( max ) and I would clear $147.50 (max) to pay for what could in reality be up to 3 hours of time. That's still only about $50 an hour for me but only about $12 an hour for you with the way you are invoicing.
You did say in one of your first post that you were interested in making around $50 and hour and this is just what you would have to bill at to even come close to that amount. That $50 an hour is not clear profit it must cover everything from holiday pay to vacation time to life and health insurance. And don't forget about those pesky taxes. It probably cost your last employeer about $40 - $50 and hour to keep you on the clock. So this is really the amount it takes just to break even with what you would make working for someone else.
If you were to give a flat rate price of $250-$300 you would do a little better but then you are taking a small chance. Ever so often you may make a mistake and end up working 4 hours for this amount but it all works out.
So if someone calls and ask for my rates and I say that it's $75 and hour that doesn't mean that anyone has ever recieved a bill for $75. That just means that the normal labor rate is $75 an hour. On a time and materials job that will work out just fine. For a service call it doesn't work out worth a darn without minimum charge and additional cost added to cover expenses.
When you talk to other contractors don't just ask for a rate ask how they bill for services. The rates are ment to be deceptively low, it's business.
When you talk to other contractors don't just ask for a rate ask how they bill for services. The rates are ment to be deceptively low, it's business.
Of course, he could also not stock anything on his truck, and charge hourly for a trip to the parts store. :roll:
Mule if it makes you feel any better I don't think your rates are so low it's the way you bill them.
Example: $75 an hour service rate. You go to a commercial service call and bill for $75 and that's it. If you get the money then all you get is a check for $75.
I go to the same commercial service call with a two hour minimum and bill at $75 and hour. 2 X $75 = $150.00 labor cost + $37.50 Admin & Travel within 10 miles = $187.50. If over 10 miles there is an additional fuel charge.
$187.50 - $75 = $112.50 difference in bill useing the same $75 and hour rate.
Even useing the same rate, you are at less than 50% of cost but that not the bad thing. If overhead runs around say $20 an hour ( this overhead must be calculated for each billable hour and not at 8 hours a day) then we would both have around $40 to $60 invested in the job and you would only clear $35 ( max ) and I would clear $147.50 (max) to pay for what could in reality be up to 3 hours of time. That's still only about $50 an hour for me but only about $12 an hour for you with the way you are invoicing.
You did say in one of your first post that you were interested in making around $50 and hour and this is just what you would have to bill at to even come close to that amount. That $50 an hour is not clear profit it must cover everything from holiday pay to vacation time to life and health insurance. And don't forget about those pesky taxes. It probably cost your last employeer about $40 - $50 and hour to keep you on the clock. So this is really the amount it takes just to break even with what you would make working for someone else.
If you were to give a flat rate price of $250-$300 you would do a little better but then you are taking a small chance. Ever so often you may make a mistake and end up working 4 hours for this amount but it all works out.
So if someone calls and ask for my rates and I say that it's $75 and hour that doesn't mean that anyone has ever recieved a bill for $75. That just means that the normal labor rate is $75 an hour. On a time and materials job that will work out just fine. For a service call it doesn't work out worth a darn without minimum charge and additional cost added to cover expenses.
When you talk to other contractors don't just ask for a rate ask how they bill for services. The rates are ment to be deceptively low, it's business.
Thanks for that valuable information, I'll have to digest that for a while.. I'll alsonhave to figure out how Im investing 3hrs in a 1 hr service call....I realize its more than 1 hr, but 3hrs would be a stretch for me as I use service calls to finish out the day.
So.....Your contribution to the poll..?
$187.50
Atlanta, GA
Population?
Of course, he could also not stock anything on his truck, and charge hourly for a trip to the parts store. :roll:
Come on you guys, your wearing me out :smile: Trying to get a poll here, why do you not to post your service rates? is it a secret? just kidding haha Oh yes you did say earlier that you dont get into the billing, sorry
celtic
09-10-2008, 12:54 PM
Im hoping this will get definitive results.....How about a poll....
Who is going to compile the results to something even remotely readable?
Start a poll using a field for rates (25-30; 30-35;etc) and pop range (under 50k; over 50k; etc)
I think you can have up to seven fields?
Some FAQs:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=poll&match=all&titlesonly=0
As far as State goes...it'd be real nice if we all just used the forums software and entered our location....this not being a perfect world, responders could just add that to their post.
Come on you guys, your wearing me out :smile: Trying to get a poll here, why do you not to post your service rates? is it a secret? just kidding haha Oh yes you did say earlier that you dont get into the billing, sorry
Yes, it is a secret! Only the accountants know for sure. :grin: :wink:
Don't forget, charges for commercial and residential can vary.
It almost sounds like you live in an area with a bunch of old timers that expect you to be "honest" and bill for the hours you work...or at least the ones they see you work!:roll:
electricguy61
09-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Come on you guys, your wearing me out :smile: Trying to get a poll here, why do you not to post your service rates? is it a secret? just kidding haha Oh yes you did say earlier that you dont get into the billing, sorry
Mule: care to be more specific about the city? I got my first contractors license in Tuttle, OK by giving the town $25 and posting a $500 bond.
I've been gone for nearly twenty years though.
Yes, it is a secret! Only the accountants know for sure. :grin: :wink:
Don't forget, charges for commercial and residential can vary.
It almost sounds like you live in an area with a bunch of old timers that expect you to be "honest" and bill for the hours you work...or at least the ones they see you work!:roll:
I'll add "Old Timers" "Honest" to Oxymoron, plow horse riding, among other things that we've been called...sorry If I did not word the question on the post well enough ie: different rates..
Didn't mean to offend Mule. I was just trying to say the population in your area wouldn't take kindly to someone charging three hours for a one hour call.
If it helps, the last HVAC guy that came to my mom's house charged $55 an hour, one hour minimum. This would be in the greater Columbus area, of Ohio, about 15 minutes south of BFE...
Uhm...have you been called an Oxymoron? :)
Who is going to compile the results to something even remotely readable?
Start a poll using a field for rates (25-30; 30-35;etc) and pop range (under 50k; over 50k; etc)
I think you can have up to seven fields?
Some FAQs:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=poll&match=all&titlesonly=0
As far as State goes...it'd be real nice if we all just used the forums software and entered our location....this not being a perfect world, responders could just add that to their post.
Hey thanks I didnt know that existed on this forum....can't do it right now....I've got to "hobble" (with my bad knee today) out to a job site...for a while and move some conduit that are in the way..(and yes, they will pay for it :smile: )....You guys in truth have a better feel for all of the parameters for this poll, and if you wanted to conduct the poll, I think it would be usefull data for everyone.
Didn't mean to offend Mule. I was just trying to say the population in your area wouldn't take kindly to someone charging three hours for a one hour call.
If it helps, the last HVAC guy that came to my mom's house charged $55 an hour, one hour minimum. This would be in the greater Columbus area, of Ohio, about 15 minutes south of BFE...
Uhm...have you been called an Oxymoron? :)
You did not offend me at all, and dont think that you did.....your a nice feller
Oxymoron....??? check out the post on comparing service rates for electricians, plumbers, and hvac'rs.......
thanks alot......Mule
jmsbrush
09-10-2008, 01:18 PM
Mule, I have been in business for one year now. In the industry for 10 Years. I'm 31 years young. I first started out doing t&m. My rates for one guy is $75.00. My helpers rate was $30.00 to 40.00 depending on who it was. Probably about 4 months ago I changed over to flat rate. Now depending on what the job is the rate can go anywhere from $150.00 to $200.00 an hour depending on the job. Best thing I ever could have done. When the customer calls. I tell them there will be a $75.00 charge to come out as long as its with in 30 mins. I'll give them an upfront price ,if they hire me to do the job I will deduct the $75.00 dollars off.
Mule, I have been in business for one year now. In the industry for 10 Years. I'm 31 years young. I first started out doing t&m. My rates for one guy is $75.00. My helpers rate was $30.00 to 40.00 depending on who it was. Probably about 4 months ago I changed over to flat rate. Now depending on what the job is the rate can go anywhere from $150.00 to $200.00 an hour depending on the job. Best thing I ever could have done. When the customer calls. I tell them there will be a $75.00 charge to come out as long as its with in 30 mins. I'll give them an upfront price ,if they hire me to do the job I will deduct the $75.00 dollars off.
I have been considering the same things.....I ordered the RSmeans electrical cost data, as my actual cost data starts to trend, I will be doing flat rate pricing myself....got to go....later
celtic
09-10-2008, 01:28 PM
I'm 31 years young.
You look like a bald old man in the picture :D
jmsbrush
09-10-2008, 01:41 PM
You look like a bald old man in the picture :D
Lmao!!:grin: Thats a funny pic huh? Thank the lord I have all my hair!! Not that being bald is a bad thing. I just like my hair!
growler
09-10-2008, 01:47 PM
I realize its more than 1 hr, but 3hrs would be a stretch for me as I use service calls to finish out the day.
Population?
That finish out the day thing is great but most service calls for a service contractor will not wait until the end of the day. Residential customers will take off from work and want to schedule a time. Commercial customers want the lights back on as soon as possible. Half the jobs that you get ( new customers ) is because you can be there in an hour or less to start solving the problem. A restaurant can't have the lights off come lunch time. A business can't have the computers down.
If you only do end of the day jobs that's not really a service contractor ( I know it's service work but not the same thing).That's the way things were done years ago when ECs would do contruction as a primary business and catch service calls as a side line.
Service contractors that do service calls are ready to roll as a primary business.
This may be why you are seeing such a disparity in rates. Service rates will tend to be higher to cover the added expenses. If it's just a side line of work I guess you can charge the normal construction rates. You may not even have any service contractors in your area to compare rates with.
I think the reason people are upset by your rates is the fact that they are comparing apples to oranges here. You are not really set up as a service contractor but they are and when the rates are compared then you will come up short because you are not in the same business. You are doing small jobs with service as a side line of work.
Service contractors do service work and that's it. They charge for the added value of being on call to get there and do the job when needed.
That's why the rates are higher, it's to cover the non-billable hours to cover the cost of this service.
Population doesn't really matter because as the population increases so does the competition.
You look like a bald old man in the picture :D
He looks a little shocked too...:roll: :grin:
Sparky555
09-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Growler makes a good point that may be common with new construction contractors. They do service as a sideline which keeps their production rate much higher than a service contractor. IMO most service-sideline companies are losing money on the service side w/o knowing it.
celtic
09-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Growler and Sparky555l, both make good valid points.
Growler and Sparky555l, both make good valid points.
I agree I'm starting my 35th year in business and service contractors are set up to respond quickly. I've talked to several contractors in my area about service work and am finding that people are calling 2,3,4 different contractors and whoever gets there first gets the job. They don't even call back to cancel.
360Youth
09-10-2008, 04:59 PM
My suggestion would be to PM some the guys in your area or similar about their rates. You are going to get a wide gammut of responses here. We charge $85 and up depending on the job description. But we do a rather large array, from basic electrical to sewage and motor controls. Our location is on the NC coast.
celtic
09-10-2008, 05:02 PM
My suggestion would be to PM some the guys in your area or similar about their rates. You are going to get a wide gammut of responses here.
Come see the sister thread #76 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=914352&postcount=76) http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Today, 03:20 PM :)
electricguy
09-10-2008, 06:57 PM
My suggestion would be to PM some the guys in your area or similar about their rates. You are going to get a wide gammut of responses here. We charge $85 and up depending on the job description. But we do a rather large array, from basic electrical to sewage and motor controls. Our location is on the NC coast.
If I had that issue I wouldnt even roll a truck until I had Charged their credit card for the trip in Advance :D
satcom
09-10-2008, 07:54 PM
If I had that issue I wouldnt even roll a truck until I had Charged their credit card for the trip in Advance :D
That is the only way to avoid "They don't even call back to cancel."
Just about every service in this area both big and small guys, want a credit card payment up front, before they roll a service truck.
That finish out the day thing is great Yes it isbut most service calls for a service contractor will not wait until the end of the dayMine do. Residential customers will take off from work and want to schedule a timeYep between 3 and 5 Commercial customers want the lights back on as soon as possible. We call that an emergency or priority callHalf the jobs that you get ( new customers ) is because you can be there in an hour or less to start solving the problem.Most of our customers are word of mouth, if they are that demanding, well A restaurant can't have the lights off come lunch time. A business can't have the computers down. Emergency work
If you only do end of the day jobs that's not really a service contractor ( I know it's service work but not the same thing).We are not a service contractor as you define itThat's the way things were done years ago when ECs would do contruction as a primary business and catch service calls as a side line. We do mostly jobs that are 1-6 hrs and occassional 2-3 day jobs or maybe a week
Service contractors that do service calls are ready to roll as a primary business. Not around here, sounds like the maytag man
This may be why you are seeing such a disparity in rates. Could be the plumber I mentioned IS a service contractor as you define itService rates will tend to be higher to cover the added expenses. makes sense to meIf it's just a side line of work I guess you can charge the normal construction rates. We dont do construction but I understand what your sayingYou may not even have any service contractors in your area to compare rates with. Only one a union shop and they are big enough to do it all with good response time, I loose a few service calls to them but not many
I think the reason people are upset by your rates is the fact that they are comparing apples to oranges here. You are not really set up as a service contractor but they are and when the rates are compared then you will come up short because you are not in the same business. You are doing small jobs with service as a side line of work. THANK YOU
Service contractors do service work and that's it. They charge for the added value of being on call to get there and do the job when needed. We charge a extra $10 bucks for priority calls and sometimes they will wait untill the end of the day
That's why the rates are higher, it's to cover the non-billable hours to cover the cost of this service.
Population doesn't really matter because as the population increases so does the competition.This is great information, thanks very much, our town has gained a few new EC"S in the last five years but for the most part they are the same old timers like myself that have been around town since we rode plow horses !!! :smile:
jrannis
09-10-2008, 10:50 PM
$95per hour / $125 with helper
sparkyjim
09-11-2008, 12:36 AM
$75/hr one man, $115/hr Jrnymn + helper. Am trying to get my head around "flat rate" pricing. Plumber friend switched over to it and swears by it, not at it.
$75/hr one man, $115/hr Jrnymn + helper. Am trying to get my head around "flat rate" pricing. Plumber friend switched over to it and swears by it, not at it.
WARNING....disclosing lower rates on this forum, particularly when you live in a larger city, could be hazzardous to your health, when you recieve replies, especially from the "chigger emailer"
Im laughing so hard, I cant type......thanks for the reply...its great info....keep it up...sounds like alot of folks are going to "flat rate Pricing"
cadpoint
09-11-2008, 12:57 AM
As far as State goes...it'd be real nice if we all just used the forums software and entered our location....this not being a perfect world, responders could just add that to their post.
Amen! ...
Your'll find that there is major information here, thats be stated,
Its just that in most cases a party will not devulge a price in this manner.
Can I have another ... Amen! ...
Amen! ...
Your'll find that there is major information here, thats be stated,
Its just that in most cases a party will not devulge a price in this manner.
Can I have another ... Amen! ...
For me, theres a few folks that Im not sure Id trust if I dislosed my town or location? Im way to out spoken I guess :smile:
celtic
09-11-2008, 01:09 AM
Can I have another ... Amen! ...
Only if you skip the fancy colors :grin:
celtic
09-11-2008, 01:11 AM
For me, theres a few folks that Im not sure Id trust if I dislosed my town or location? Im way to out spoken I guess :smile:
I'm happy with a State.
It does no good for me to try and understand a $1200 service upgrade from someone posting from ???? might as well be the moon :grin:
I'm happy with a State.
It does no good for me to try and understand a $1200 service upgrade from someone posting from ???? might as well be the moon :grin:
Thats why I suggested State and Population
haha My last service upgrade cost me $440 in parts....I installed a HOM30cir/150 R/T panel new meter base....7ft riser...converted old panel to sub panel ie ground bus kit....new ground rod....even tiddy'd up their sat and phone grounds....$875 took me about 4-5 hours then we went inside and pulled two new circuits into the kitchen the next day....4hrsx 2 men plus parts......mmmm...cant remember I think $425
celtic
09-11-2008, 01:24 AM
My last service upgrade cost me $440 in parts....I installed a HOM30cir/150 R/T panel new meter base....7ft riser...converted old panel to sub panel ie ground bus kit....new ground rod....even tiddy'd up their sat and phone grounds....$875 took me about 4-5 hours then we went inside and pulled two new circuits into the kitchen the next day....4hrsx 2 men plus parts......mmmm...cant remember I think $425
Is this the right thread?
LOL
How much time was devoted to obtaining permits, waiting for inspector, creating the panel schedule, purchasing material, bookkeeping, etc etc etc.
Is this the right thread?
LOL
How much time was devoted to obtaining permits, waiting for inspector, creating the panel schedule, purchasing material, bookkeeping, etc etc etc.
OK I get it, bait and switch......:smile:
celtic
09-11-2008, 01:35 AM
OK I get it, bait and switch......:smile:
LOL...that may have been one of the shortest debates ( #50 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=914720&postcount=50) ) in forum history :D
Philadelphia, Tri County
$150.00 per hour drive time included, 2 man crew, mechanic and apprentice
For good customers with alot of work we reduce our rate according to amount of work and how they pay
ItsHot
09-13-2008, 01:08 PM
I think it is fair to say that EC's rates vary almost as much as gasoline prices!:grin:
satcom
09-13-2008, 01:33 PM
Philadelphia, Tri County
$150.00 per hour drive time included, 2 man crew, mechanic and apprentice
For good customers with alot of work we reduce our rate according to amount of work and how they pay
So when you reduce your rate according to amount of work and how they pay. i assume all your bills are also reduced, your phone company drops their rate, your libality insurance company drops their rate, you workers comp rate is lowered, and your truck insurances, and all the truck upkeep costs are also reduced, sounds like you have some great argeement with all your suppliers, mine usually have rates increased.
brantmacga
09-13-2008, 03:35 PM
So when you reduce your rate according to amount of work and how they pay. i assume all your bills are also reduced, your phone company drops their rate, your libality insurance company drops their rate, you workers comp rate is lowered, and your truck insurances, and all the truck upkeep costs are also reduced, sounds like you have some great argeement with all your suppliers, mine usually have rates increased.
i think he means this:
hourly rate is calculated off weekly billable hours. if customer X can provide a known amount of hours during a week, the EC can recalculate the hourly rate off that amount of work. if the hours are higher than what the original rate was calculated from, the hourly rate goes down.
electricmanscott
09-13-2008, 07:11 PM
How much time was devoted to obtaining permits, waiting for inspector, creating the panel schedule, purchasing material, bookkeeping, etc etc etc.
That stuff is all free with every service change........:rolleyes:
You guys will be Proud of me, I've charged a trip charge on all calls this week...see there, there's still hope for the mule...:cool:
bradleyelectric
09-13-2008, 09:18 PM
You guys will be Proud of me, I've charged a trip charge on all calls this week...see there, there's still hope for the mule...:cool:
Your headed in the right direction. Understand that you can sell a job by making the customer comfortable enough with you they never ask another contractor for a rate and you will be able to get what you ask for without having to worry what others are charging.
Your headed in the right direction. Understand that you can sell a job by making the customer comfortable enough with you they never ask another contractor for a rate and you will be able to get what you ask for without having to worry what others are charging.
I guess I worry more about value provided to the customer, not what other folks are charging. But Im getting used to fact that higher rates are a must.
:) Did I say that?
tonyou812
09-14-2008, 04:32 AM
I charge 110 to show up first hour and 95 per hour after. If I have help its 150 to show up and 140-150 per hour after. My service changes start at 2500 and only go up with each pita factor. But as of late I want to add andther 150 bucks to my basic service changes.
For most residential scenarios though I like to flate rate my pricing. I feel like I hit more homeruns that way, and most people like to have a price up front. And with a fixed price many times they will add to the list. They are not as apt to add work if you charge them by the hour and they see you smoking out by your truck or take a long lunch. Just last week I qutoted a lady 2650 for some basement work and before I even showed up she had called me and added 750 dollars more worth of work. I dont think she would have added if I told her I charge 95 dollars per hour plus material. It just doesnt sit right with some people. And the work only took me a day to complete. Im sure that 3400 bucks is small potates for some of you big "cats" but for a ham and egger like me its a pretty good days work.
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