Permit Filing Frustration

[joebell]

I work in Mass. and we have a standard form the state issues for all towns to use when filing for an electrical permit. The frustration comes when you make out the check. Each town has a different fee schedule. Some base the cost on the estimated cost of the job, some are so much $ per outlet, some seem to just pick a number out of the air. I thought MECA used to have a book with much of this information in it, does anyone know if this is still the case?

Then there's Fire Alarm permits, again each town has a different set of requirements. To fulfill some of there requirements could take days. I guess I don't understand why this can't be a more standardized process. I don't want to come off like I am railing on the towns, I'm not. I feel that my office should be handling much of this foot work and that is where alot of my frustration originates so I guess I'm just blowing off steam Thanks for listening

Joe

[iwire]

Joe, all I can say is the game is the same for all of us.

I just recently spent an hour at a City hall trying to figure out the permit fee for a solar installation. There is no place for such installations on our standard form.

I ended up convincing them that the fee for a 50 KW solar install should be the same as a 50 KW generator install.

In that City that put the permit fee at $60.00, had they charged me on the value of the job it would have been $100s if not into the $1000s.

[infinity]

We have the same issues here as well. Some places reject forms if the information isn't perfect on the application, others don't seem to care too much. There can be a great difference from one town or city to the next. That applys to permit cost too.

[hillbilly1]

Try permitting a temporary generator for an entire building, loads of fun. They said they would like to look at it, but there is no fee schedule for it, and this is a large city inspection department.

[jrannis]

Dont come to South Florida!! We have 46 different Cities all with their own forms and procedures.
In Miami Dade, all commercial permits now have to go outside of the building department and get approval by DERM and some by Fire.

I think they do it to keep the Yankees from trying to work down here during the winter.:D

[chris kennedy]

jrannis, have you been to the City of Miami bldg dept?:mad:

[brian john]

Be thankful you get to the cashier in an hour some jurisdictions we wait up to 4-5 hours.

[jrannis]

jrannis, have you been to the City of Miami bldg dept?:mad:

Oh yeah. I think I had a birthday waiting while people jumped the line.

[chris kennedy]

Oh yeah. I think I had a birthday waiting while people jumped the line.
Been there twice in the last couple months. What is the point of taking a number???

(and they took my knife away the first time there)

[iaov]

Nice thing about living in a small town. Permits are simple. I can call the office and they will issue me one over the phone and I can go pick it up /pay for it at my convenience.:smile:

[GUNNING]

We had the price by item a while back. They finally went to a per visit price. Permits went from about $25 to $130. I don't mind the cost. The wait time is about 5 minutes to pick up a permit, it takes longer to park. If you have any questions the inspectors or head of the building department has an open door next to the permit desk. Its heaven.
Across the street, the county. Take a number by computer log in. Got a question, need to make an appointment. Navigating through there phone number is not easy and they will call you back that day, just cant talk now. Permit fee is about what the city is.
Both inspection departments do a pretty good job of getting the permit cleared, being reasonable, and recognizing you on site. Almost like Mulberry RFD.
Went to an outlying county permit desk and a little old lady was asking for a mobil home inspection to move her house because of the age. The Permit clerk, to my utter gleeful surprise and entertainment, took the request and issued her a permit for the inspection. Her address "I live 1.4 miles south of the Walmart".
They use permits in triplicate on site. Some hand written. They used a thermofax machine until they moved 2 years ago out of the court house.
I like working in a small town.

[dezwitinc]

30kW propane generator last August - $315 with gas permit
30kW propane genertor this September - $1,003 with gas permit.
I know that the cities and towns need to makeup for shortfalls but this is ridiculous.
Permit fees to build a house are now in the thousands.

[joebell]

Cost for a permit to install a 250KW generator $1400.00. The cheapest permit I pulled lately was $25.00 to install a fire alarm device.

The toughest permit I had to apply for was a Fire alarm permit in the city of Boston. They require specification sheets on the equipment being installed, an engineered set of plans for approval and a naritive explaining the scope of the project as well as the sequence of operation once the system and or devices are installed.


Joe

[GUNNING]

I like a high permit fee. If it takes that much to permit and inspect a job doesnt it mean there has to be a higher administration fee? Its like printing money. Ive seen Permiting services where all they do is present paperwork to the AHJ and pick up permits. Deligate and make some $!

[j_erickson]

Cost for a permit to install a 250KW generator $1400.00. The cheapest permit I pulled lately was $25.00 to install a fire alarm device.

The toughest permit I had to apply for was a Fire alarm permit in the city of Boston. They require specification sheets on the equipment being installed, an engineered set of plans for approval and a naritive explaining the scope of the project as well as the sequence of operation once the system and or devices are installed.


Joe

Fire alarms are a different beast than standard electrical permits. To install a fire alarm , you typically need an electrical permit, a building permit, and a permit from the fire dept. All of what you described above is required by the building code, and typically is provided by others. Unless you are designing the system.

With a few calls it is typically not difficult to get an electrical permit fee. But most towns are part time departments, so if you just show up, you might be sol.

[iwire]

The toughest permit I had to apply for was a Fire alarm permit in the city of Boston.

Bostons OK once you know what they want. :grin:

The BFD has given us lots of work, a fire alarm system from the 60s went out in a 17 story building. First we put in a temporary fire alarm system in just a couple of weeks for about $30K. Then we had a permanent system engineered and approved, then we got to put that one in which took a few months and a lot of equipment. 8-)

[joebell]

Bostons OK once you know what they want. :grin:


I will say that the fire prevention officer that coached me through the process was very accomadating he even gave me extra applications for future use. All thier requirements are spelled out on the cover page so next time I will be prepared.

Joe

[joebell]

Fire alarms are a different beast than standard electrical permits. To install a fire alarm , you typically need an electrical permit, a building permit, and a permit from the fire dept. All of what you described above is required by the building code, and typically is provided by others. Unless you are designing the system.

With a few calls it is typically not difficult to get an electrical permit fee. But most towns are part time departments, so if you just show up, you might be sol.


John

I do agree that the electrical permit can be handled with a phone call or two.


I have never been asked to produce proof of an electrical permit to pull a F/A permit. I thought for the GC to obtain the building permit, the plans had to be reveiwed by the Fire Dept so why do some towns require the EC to resubmitt plans for reveiw?

Joe

[satcom]

John

I do agree that the electrical permit can be handled with a phone call or two.


I have never been asked to produce proof of an electrical permit to pull a F/A permit. I thought for the GC to obtain the building permit, the plans had to be reveiwed by the Fire Dept so why do some towns require the EC to resubmitt plans for reveiw?

Joe

Down my way you need your license, and for fire, a plan designed by a professional engineer, proof or insurance that covers life safery equipment, and then they send it to a plan review.

We just got our quote for fire alarm installation liability insurance with error and ommisions, $18K the electrical coverage is only 5K were starting to rethink the fire work.

[jrannis]

Been there twice in the last couple months. What is the point of taking a number???

(and they took my knife away the first time there)

If you think about it, its the only building department with a metal detector. Makes you wonder why:D

[j_erickson]

John

I do agree that the electrical permit can be handled with a phone call or two.


I have never been asked to produce proof of an electrical permit to pull a F/A permit. I thought for the GC to obtain the building permit, the plans had to be reveiwed by the Fire Dept so why do some towns require the EC to resubmitt plans for reveiw?

Joe

I didn't mean that you needed to provide proof of elec permit to get the FA permit, just that you had to have one in addition. That there are 3 permits required to install a FA in an existing building for example. (Although some building dept.'s will not bother issuing a permit if the FD does.)

[cowboyjwc]

Part of the reson for the price variance in permits, is that the B&S departments charge what it takes to do the paper work and the inspections and etc. So basically, if the city is paying their counter techs $15 p/hr and thier inspectors $20 per hour and then you go to the county and they pay $20 and $30 p/hr, then there is going to, of course. be a differnce.

Then how they charge is also differnt. We have a minimum fee which covers things such as panels and water heaters and such. We can charge by the outlet or the sq footage depending on the size of the job or go by the valuation.

Here the FD is contracted through the county so we really have nothing to do with them, and yes it can be a pain. When doing something like a resturant, you may have to have four, five or more different plan checks (fire, police, county health, enviornmental health, building & safety, possibly public works).

If you think south Florida is bad we may have 46 different jurisdictions in the greater Los Angeles area and surrounding towns

[joebell]

I didn't mean that you needed to provide proof of elec permit to get the FA permit, just that you had to have one in addition.


John

that's what I thought you meant but I wasn't sure if you have been asked for the electrical permit in the past to pull the F/A permit. It wouldn't have surprised me :)

Joe

[joebell]

we may have 46 different jurisdictions in the greater Los Angeles area and surrounding towns


I guess it could be alot worse in my area

Joe

[hillbilly1]

Cost for a permit to install a 250KW generator $1400.00. The cheapest permit I pulled lately was $25.00 to install a fire alarm device.

Joe
About a year ago in Ohio I had to pull a Fire sprinkler permit for the entire building ($2700) even though we are electrical contractors and the only thing we had to do with the sprinkler system was install a transfer switch for the fire pump!