estimated time for roughin a 2 story house

[wireperson]

its a 5 bedroom 6 bath , wet bar, 2 car garage
10 ft ceilings
6 flood lights on the 2nd floor

any vague idea of how long would it take to do it with a crew of 4 people?, they want isolated ground on all tvs (6).
standard home not many fancy things.

[electricalperson]

whats the square footage?

[celtic]

No offense, but you question is akin to me asking you:
I have 4 people in my car and the wind is steady at 5mph NW, how much will I spend on gas to get to your house.


Some DETAILS make everyone's job easier ;)

[wireperson]

1,607 sq.ft 1rst floor
2345 2nd floor

[LarryFine]

Honest guess: a week if you don't try hard.

they want isolated ground on all tvs (6).That's accomplished by using plastic boxes and NM cable. Technically, the only other requirement is that the EGC not land in any panel/enclosure except the one that contains the main bonding jumper.

[ultramegabob]

No offense, but you question is akin to me asking you:
I have 4 people in my car and the wind is steady at 5mph NW, how much will I spend on gas to get to your house.


Some DETAILS make everyone's job easier ;)

Thats Funny!

[bjp_ne_elec]

One thing I'd like to hear for the gang out there - how much in the form or Romex (breaking it down by the various flavors), number of boxes, etc.

On the labor, I see Larry's saying a week - anybody else come up with that as well?

Larry - I'm assuming that's one person, or does it allow a helper for that week?

[480sparky]

1,607 sq.ft 1rst floor
2345 2nd floor
The second floor is larger than the main level? :confused:

[SEO]

Has anybody used the flat 14-3 nm cable? My guys don't like it.

[masterinbama]

Unless the home runs are unusually long 1 foot of wire for every square foot of house is a good start. But I would still do a take off. I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3 3000' of 14-2 and 2000' of 12-2. The way the house is designed MWBC's just would not have saved enough to warrant their use. As a side note the HVAC guys do all of their own wiring here, I don't know why but it more than likely has to do with the fact that heat pumps are prevalent here.

[480sparky]

[quote=masterinbama].... I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3.....quote]

250? Man, that would hardly cover the smokes.....

[peter d]

Has anybody used the flat 14-3 nm cable? My guys don't like it.

That's all you can get now.

Pros: Very easy to strip, and no untwisting of conductors.

Cons: Not truly flat, it's actually lumpy and somewhat oval shaped. This makes it difficult to staple tightly. It also looks really bad (not that anyone cares.)

[Rockyd]

Wow. How about a start point - like how may square feet upstairs and down? Got a print of the project? Gas or Electric? Overhead of underground? PVC or Direct burial? Garage? For that matter, I don't even know what part of America, your in!

Some details would be good. Then perhaps we can properly repond.

[peter d]

This project would cost $167,385.56 and take 545 manhours.

[muckusmc]

Not including service and putting a sub panel on the second floor - I figure about a week for two guys

[electricalperson]

me and a helper could do this job in a week. if you have 4 guys you can bid it for a week and bust it out and make good money. thats if you have 4 competent guys. one crew each floor.

whats the point of the IG ground receptacles on the tvs especially in a house? might be a waste of money but thats the engineers or designers problem i suppose

[celtic]

No offense, but you question is akin to me asking you:
I have 4 people in my car and the wind is steady at 5mph NW, how much will I spend on gas to get to your house.


Some DETAILS make everyone's job easier ;)

1,607 sq.ft 1rst floor
2345 2nd floor
:-?

The car has 5 doors and 4 tires [it's a minivan]....how much will the gas cost?
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/Bush%20confused%2021_a.jpg


I could go back and forth with you on this until another EC turns the final screw

[peter d]

me and a helper could do this job in a week.

A 4000 square foot custom with two guys in 80 man hours? Sure, no problem, but it ain't going to be pretty.

[MF Dagger]

The second floor is larger than the main level? :confused:

Maybe it has a garage on the first that isn't being counted toward square footage

[wawireguy]

A week with two guys? No wonder they call em romex runners! I've done a few house and don't think I'm a slug but 4K sqare foot and 6 baths! You need to slow down. Gonna kill yourself doing that.

[bjp_ne_elec]

[quote=masterinbama].... I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3.....quote]

250? Man, that would hardly cover the smokes.....


I agree with 480sparky - OP have any more on this? Also OP, can you clarify why the 2nd floor has more sq ft than the first floor?

Does anyone else buy in to the ft/sq ft when it comes to Romex. I know some houses are wired like the Taj Mahal, but I'm just wondering on average.

[masterinbama]

Thats about all the 14-3 had to cover were the smokes, the house only had one set of three-ways

[alfiesauce]

The second floor is larger than the main level? :confused:

Bonus room over the garage?

[alfiesauce]

That's all you can get now.

Pros: Very easy to strip, and no untwisting of conductors.

Cons: Not truly flat, it's actually lumpy and somewhat oval shaped. This makes it difficult to staple tightly. It also looks really bad (not that anyone cares.)

You can still get round. Try a different supplier.

[steelersman]

its a 5 bedroom 6 bath , wet bar, 2 car garage
10 ft ceilings
6 flood lights on the 2nd floor

any vague idea of how long would it take to do it with a crew of 4 people?, they want isolated ground on all tvs (6).
standard home not many fancy things.
I don't see it taking any more than 4 days tops with 4 experienced guys. Maybe even 3 days as long as there aren't any things holding up the progress.

[steelersman]

Has anybody used the flat 14-3 nm cable? My guys don't like it.
yes and I like it better because it's easier IMO to strip the outer sheathing.

[steelersman]

Unless the home runs are unusually long 1 foot of wire for every square foot of house is a good start. But I would still do a take off. I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3 3000' of 14-2 and 2000' of 12-2. The way the house is designed MWBC's just would not have saved enough to warrant their use. As a side note the HVAC guys do all of their own wiring here, I don't know why but it more than likely has to do with the fact that heat pumps are prevalent here.
so you only used one roll of 14-3? What about smoke detectors and 3-ways and 4-ways. A house that large (5100sq/ft) I would imagine using at least 2 rolls.

[steelersman]

[quote=masterinbama].... I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3.....quote]

250? Man, that would hardly cover the smokes.....
no doubt. he must have used 2 wire for travellers. :)

[steelersman]

Not including service and putting a sub panel on the second floor - I figure about a week for two guys
why a sub-panel on 2nd floor?

[steelersman]

This project would cost $167,385.56 and take 545 manhours.
Where did you come up with that number? I'm assuming you're joking right? :)

[steelersman]

:-?

The car has 5 doors and 4 tires [it's a minivan]....how much will the gas cost?
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/Bush%20confused%2021_a.jpg


I could go back and forth with you on this until another EC turns the final screw
LOL!! Hilarious! :)

[celtic]

What if.....the ceilings are 14'...

[steelersman]

What if.....the ceilings are 14'...
then it will take longer to wire. :)

[muckusmc]

why a sub-panel on 2nd floor?
For the upstairs circuits - saves time pulling homeruns to the basement or garage - I'm getting older and saves alot of up and down (ladder or steps) to get the HR's to the main panel

[steelersman]

For the upstairs circuits - saves time pulling homeruns to the basement or garage - I'm getting older and saves alot of up and down (ladder or steps) to get the HR's to the main panel
oh ok. Is this cost effective though?

[celtic]

oh ok. Is this cost effective though?

I think a grunt...aka helper... is more cost efficient :D

[muckusmc]

oh ok. Is this cost effective though?
Close enough for me - sure saves my legs and knees alot of stress.
Same amount of breakers, small sub panel ($25.00), Wire for sub ($30.00 approx) - Can sleep at night cause knees and legs aren't in alot of pain - I think that counts as cost effective - LOL

[muckusmc]

I think a grunt...aka helper... is more cost efficient :D
Celtic,
Lets not insult our grunts and put them in the same catagory as a apprentice.
LOL
Semper Fi

[celtic]

muck...if you have 2 grunts, you sit in a lawn chair in the job's LR and direct from there :)
You might even get a round of golf in every now and again

[celtic]

Celtic,
Lets not insult our grunts and put them in the same catagory as a apprentice.
LOL
Semper Fi

I just now [when I typed "muck" in my last post] realized that those were not random letters you had used...LOL

[muckusmc]

muck...if you have 2 grunts, you sit in a lawn chair in the job's LR and direct from there :)
You might even get a round of golf in every now and again
With 2 grunts - yes
With 2 apprentices - not so sure
LOL

[bjp_ne_elec]

Thats about all the 14-3 had to cover were the smokes, the house only had one set of three-ways

One set of 3-ways in a 5100 sq ft house. They must be doing a lot of walking around in the dark after they shut certain switches off - thats NUTZ. I've done spec homes, under 2000 sq ft and had a minimum of eight (8) 3-way switches. Did the final bill come with a dozen of these:

[steelersman]

One set of 3-ways in a 5100 sq ft house. They must be doing a lot of walking around in the dark after they shut certain switches off - thats NUTZ. I've done spec homes, under 2000 sq ft and had a minimum of eight (8) 3-way switches. Did the final bill come with a dozen of these:
lol!! that's simply pathetic to only have 1 set of 3-ways. is the entire house one gigantic room? :)

[LarryFine]

lol!! that's simply pathetic to only have 1 set of 3-ways. is the entire house one gigantic room? :)LOL! Did he mention that the two 3-ways were 100 amp manual transfer switches? :wink:

[splinetto]

Unless the home runs are unusually long 1 foot of wire for every square foot of house is a good start. But I would still do a take off. I just finished a 5100 foot custom used 250' of 14-3 3000' of 14-2 and 2000' of 12-2. The way the house is designed MWBC's just would not have saved enough to warrant their use. As a side note the HVAC guys do all of their own wiring here, I don't know why but it more than likely has to do with the fact that heat pumps are prevalent here.
No ceiling fans either? I just wired a 1300sqft house and used 750' 14-3, 2250' 14-2, 500' 12-2,and 125' 12-3. How many things did you put on each ckt?

[iwire]

I just wired a 1300sqft house and used 750' 14-3, 2250' 14-2, 500' 12-2,and 125' 12-3.

But how many holes dig you drill? :wink:

[walkerj]

But how many holes dig you drill? :wink:

I seem to remember a long discussion on this topic:D

[bjp_ne_elec]

OK - what post did I miss about the number of holes drilled?

I wonder is anyone has wired a house with less than 250' of 14/3 - we might have a record here.

[iwire]

OK - what post did I miss about the number of holes drilled?

You missed nothing, just a poor inside joke.

[walkerj]

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=94879&highlight=hole+wire

[stickboy1375]

I just wired a 3800 sq ft house, used 3000' 14-2 NM, 1000' 14-3 nm, almost 1000' 12-2 , and 250' 12-3, and a roll of 14-2-2 for some bed room feeders. still have the basement to wire as well. Easily another 500' of 14-2.

Took me around two weeks and a few days for extras that the HO added.

[splinetto]

But how many holes dig you drill? :wink:
If you must know let me think about it...

[peter d]

I just wired a 3800 sq ft house, used 3000' 14-2 NM, 1000' 14-3 nm, almost 1000' 12-2 , and 250' 12-3, and a roll of 14-2-2 for some bed room feeders. still have the basement to wire as well. Easily another 500' of 14-2.

You copper waster! ;)

[stickboy1375]

You copper waster! ;)


Just doin' my job... ;)

[stickboy1375]

If you must know let me think about it...

the house must look like swiss cheese... ;)

[splinetto]

In the garage alone, I count at least 50 holes. That is with the panel in the garage...I am estimating 300 hole total, including phones and TVs....Think about that for awhile all you jam em ALL in one hole guys:grin: :grin:

[stickboy1375]

In the garage alone, I count at least 50 holes. That is with the panel in the garage...I am estimating 300 hole total, including phones and TVs....Think about that for awhile all you jam em ALL in one hole guys:grin: :grin:


At least I know the house wont fall down. :grin:

[peter d]

I am estimating 300 hole total....


That is ridiculous.

[splinetto]

That is ridiculous.
Welcome to my world....Im just use to it .....and this was only a 1300sq ft house....

[stickboy1375]

Welcome to my world....Im just use to it .....and this was only a 1300sq ft house....


Okay I want a truthful answer, why on earth do you do this?

[celtic]

...I am estimating 300 hole total....

You might to give this number to the HO ~ 1-800-233-5917 (http://www.terminix.com/default.aspx)

:D

[splinetto]

Okay I want a truthful answer, why on earth do you do this?
You can't handle the truth!!! The truth is that is how we do it...And everyone does it that way...Ok not everyone. But everyone around here.....I will tell you this I do pull more than 1 phone or tv thru a hole...Can you atleast give me some slack for that?

[peter d]

You can't handle the truth!!! The truth is that is how we do it...And everyone does it that way...Ok not everyone. But everyone around here.....I will tell you this I do pull more than 1 phone or tv thru a hole...Can you atleast give me some slack for that?

"Everyone does it that way."

When was that ever a good reason to do something?

[splinetto]

"Everyone does it that way."

When was that ever a good reason to do something?
It is not like some guys do and some guys dont...We all do....And if you came here you would have to do the same.....You might try to fight it but the dark side is strong....

[ItsHot]

You gotta let them studs breath! Ventilation holes!!:grin:

[peter d]

It is not like some guys do and some guys dont...We all do....And if you came here you would have to do the same.....

When the blind lead the blind, they all fall into a ditch.

Sounds to me you have some clueless authorities there and people who are willing to go along with their absurdity.

[ItsHot]

When the blind lead the blind, they all fall into a ditch.

Sounds to me you have some clueless authorities there and people who are willing to go along with their absurdity. Give him a break! It is the "show me" state!:D

[splinetto]

When the blind lead the blind, they all fall into a ditch.

Sounds to me you have some clueless authorities there and people who are willing to go along with their absurdity.
Show me a code secton I am violating.

[peter d]

Show me a code secton I am violating.

There is no code section. The issue I have is that drilling all those holes is a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Not to mention wear and tear on your bits and drills.

[splinetto]

There is no code section. The issue I have is that drilling all those holes is a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Not to mention wear and tear on your bits and drills.
You forgot hands,arms and shoulders.

[bjp_ne_elec]

That's how Popeye got those forearms. Knocking out 300+ holes a house with a Hole Hawg ;)

[LarryFine]

That's how Popeye got those forearms. Knocking out 300+ holes a house with a Hole Hawg ;)No, with a brace and bit.

[steelersman]

That's how Popeye got those forearms. Knocking out 300+ holes a house with a Hole Hawg ;)
I've never heard of people counting how many holes they drill when wiring a home. Do you guys factor that number into the cost or estimate somehow? And if so then why?

[celtic]

I've never heard of people counting how many holes they drill when wiring a home. Do you guys factor that number into the cost or estimate somehow? And if so then why?

For me...that cost is included with the wire run ~ even the times when no hole is being made..ie, homeruns across basement/attic ceilings.

I recall a "debate" I had here with another poster who counts the holes :roll:
What-ev-ER...

[steelersman]

For me...that cost is included with the wire run ~ even the times when no hole is being made..ie, homeruns across basement/attic ceilings.

Yeah I can't imagine trying to figure out how many holes I'm gonna drill so I figure out an estimate based on that. Seems like a waste of time.

[celtic]

Yeah I can't imagine trying to figure out how many holes I'm gonna drill so I figure out an estimate based on that. Seems like a waste of time.

I figure it this way....

Drilling a hole requires:
drill
bit
xcord
time

Running across beams requires:
staples
ladder
hammer
time

Basically it equals out 8-)

[kid_stevens]

We can't use 14 anything here in NM except between light fixture and switch.

The HVAC guys here cannot connect to anything but an existing panel with 240 breaker already present.

We figure home runs per square foot plus 20ft per run for vertical panels.

[mdshunk]

We can't use 14 anything here in NM except between light fixture and switch.
One day, they'll figure out that's a violation if you're working with a 20 amp circuit. I know there's still lots and lots of people who continue to improperly do that, though.

[kid_stevens]

There is no code section. The issue I have is that drilling all those holes is a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Not to mention wear and tear on your bits and drills.

I add a new Greenlee Auger bit to every house job in the estimate and with my 90 degree V28 Milwaukee I drill about 200 holes in 3 hours in the Horizontal direction. And I still have one light on my battery.

On new construction We drop the studs in a frame and pre drill 10 at a time. The framers grab our studs for the inner walls and we walk drill the outer walls. We drill in the evening to get ahead of the framers.

When I say walk drill the handle of the drill is held down to an easy on the back with out bending level and the other hand runs the drill. Right or left thigh applies pressure to the drill. That 90 degree drill was one of my best investments.

[celtic]

When I say walk drill the handle of the drill is held down to an easy on the back with out bending level and the other hand runs the drill. Right or left thigh applies pressure to the drill. That 90 degree drill was one of my best investments.


If you alternate direction when drilling - wire pulling is much easier.
People have a natural tendency to have the same amount of angle while "drilling from the hip"...alternating the drill direction offsets this natural angle.

An extension bit for the auger eliminates the need for a ladder when drilling top plates for switches, jumpers, home runs, etc.

[stickboy1375]

If you alternate direction when drilling - wire pulling is much easier.
People have a natural tendency to have the same amount of angle while "drilling from the hip"...alternating the drill direction offsets this natural angle.



I use a chalk line and drill straight, I just dont understand your post. ;):grin:

[kid_stevens]

If you alternate direction when drilling - wire pulling is much easier.
People have a natural tendency to have the same amount of angle while "drilling from the hip"...alternating the drill direction offsets this natural angle.

An extension bit for the auger eliminates the need for a ladder when drilling top plates for switches, jumpers, home runs, etc.

Yep 2 extensions

Adding a block to the head of drill can help the angle problem. It also allows us to set the depth of the hole in the stud to be at dead center. When we drill by walking that is.

I need every trick in the book when someone tells me they can drill a straight hole without a guide I check their work twice.

[celtic]

I use a chalk line and drill straight, I just dont understand your post. ;):grin:


Chalk line is a waste of time IMHO...it is the "rough".

This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-

:D

Every other stud is North-South or East-West...then vice versa.
No blocks, chaulk lines, lasers, transits, water levels, etc needed.
Grab the drill and GOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo

Wires pulled from either direction won't bind up.

[iwire]

Whats all this drilling for, studs come pre-punched with holes ready to go.:wink:

[mdshunk]

Whats all this drilling for, studs come pre-punched with holes ready to go.:wink:
There was a time when all the studs being shipped from Canada to my part of the country came with a wire hole pre-drilled. Because of the lumber tariff's at the time, if they drilled a hole in them, they could call them "engineered lumber". This had a much lower import tariff versus regular sawn lumber.

[quogueelectric]

I had one new house where the studs came this way to my surprise and what a nice surprise it was. The carpenters still managed to screw up the directions . 15 years later a competitor heard my name and said YOU are the one I lost that job to. I said beveled cedar siding?? All new anderson doublehung windows?? The name of the customer and the street?? I then said NO I never heard of this place. :smile:

[kid_stevens]

Houses here are built with Home Depot wood: still damp, warped, edge boards and substandard sizes.

That is why I like to drop them in my drill frame. The pressure of shipping them hold them straight for a couple of hours so my frame drilled holes end up twisting back and forth anyway just like back and forth drilling every other stud.

Give me steel studs every time!!! :)

[jerrygar]

When figuring how long the rough took or will take, what do you consider completed?

I just finished a 2,000 sq ft, 3 story house. It had 190 "points" (a point being any switch, receptacle, light, etc) and took 118 hours.

When I am done the panel is complete, all the wires spliced and pigtailed, switch legs and power neatly folded into the box, etc. Makes the trim much faster, and you don't have to try to remember what you did six months ago.

Jerry

[kid_stevens]

When figuring how long the rough took or will take, what do you consider completed?

I just finished a 2,000 sq ft, 3 story house. It had 190 "points" (a point being any switch, receptacle, light, etc) and took 118 hours.

When I am done the panel is complete, all the wires spliced and pigtailed, switch legs and power neatly folded into the box, etc. Makes the trim much faster, and you don't have to try to remember what you did six months ago.

Jerry

190 into .2 estimation book time per point install 38 hours final
Pulling all the wire comes to 6 hours per 1000 feet of Romex no terminations (rough)
termination .1 per splice 19.0 hours
.2 per handy box so say 190 for 38 hours (rough)
Panel 8 hours for terminations and service feed.
Meter and mast 2 hours all by the book I use.

Pretty close by the time extras are done. Pretty Good I say.


Wires pulled from either direction won't bind up.

One word "SimPull" Romex won't bind unless a kink is in it.

[Greg Swartz]

Celtic,
Lets not insult our grunts and put them in the same catagory as a apprentice.
LOL
Semper Fi


Get some!

Tell the grunts to attack the panel... you might get a whole different response than you wanted...

[celtic]

One word "SimPull" Romex won't bind unless a kink is in it.


Try the alternating method someday on one wall without the fancy widgets.... NM [SimPull or not], AC, cable/tele/cat5, etc...will all pull smoothly.

[steelersman]

Chalk line is a waste of time IMHO...it is the "rough".

This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-

:D

Every other stud is North-South or East-West...then vice versa.
No blocks, chaulk lines, lasers, transits, water levels, etc needed.
Grab the drill and GOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo

Wires pulled from either direction won't bind up.
I totally agree with you on this topic especially if I am drilling through solid wood joists.

[stickboy1375]

Chalk line is a waste of time IMHO...it is the "rough".



I'm not making art, I'm making my life easier on me by the ease of pulling wires through straight holes, try it some day, you'll figure out what i'm talking about. :D

[steelersman]

I'm not making art, I'm making my life easier on me by the ease of pulling wires through straight holes, try it some day, you'll figure out what i'm talking about. :D
Truthfully that sounds like a waste of time. I don't mean it in a negative way but I can easily drill by eyesight and the holes are not going to be so far out of kilter that it makes it difficult to pull through. Now I can definitely warrant the use of a chalk line for keeping kitchen countertop outlets the same height, although I've never done that either. I also wouldn't waste my time with a right angle drill. I know that they have there place for certain occasions but I've never used one and know that if I purchased one that it wouldn't get used.

[stickboy1375]

Everyone does things the way they feel are efficient, and I'm sure they probably are after a while. but I just wish you could pull wire after I'm done just to see the difference, I've been doing this long enough not to waste time trying to pull wires through holes that don't line up, I know I make up the time of snapping lines when pulling wires. Celtic, your not the only one with mad skillz. :)

[celtic]

I'm not making art, I'm making my life easier on me by the ease of pulling wires through straight holes, try it some day, you'll figure out what i'm talking about. :D

Life is easy.
Lay the drill on your thigh and drill away
If you have only 4 or 5 studs to go through, do you measure and snap a line?
BTW, I'm done!
NEXT! :D

I'm all about simple....less is more.

I also wouldn't waste my time with a right angle drill. I know that they have there place for certain occasions but I've never used one and know that if I purchased one that it wouldn't get used.

Rent one [rather than buy] for one day when you have alotta holes to drill ~ the ext. and auger - you probably have them?
Leave the ladder off to the side and blitz the place in no time at all.

Celtic, your not the only one with mad skillz. :)

Them's fighting words!
http://www.frostjedi.com/phpbb/images/smilies/box.gif

j/k


It is cool to know how others work....and even something as mundane as drilling holes seems to be a passionate topic....for some of us lunatics :D

[walkerj]

All I do is put the drill on my thigh (perfect height in between outlets and switches) and start drilling.
I keep them pretty straight as I was yelled at as a helper for not doing so
You guys are wierdos with all this scientific drilling:D
I would have 1/2 the house drilled by the time you guys finished thinking about what you were going to do:grin:

[splinetto]

Chalk line is a waste of time IMHO...it is the "rough".

This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-
This stud gets drilled this way ->
This stud gets drilled this way <-

:D

Every other stud is North-South or East-West...then vice versa.
No blocks, chaulk lines, lasers, transits, water levels, etc needed.
Grab the drill and GOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo

Wires pulled from either direction won't bind up.

What if you miss a hole? Do you go back and try to figure out which way the hole before it was drilled? Heaven forbid you have two holes going the same way.....And by the way any further Questions on drilling holes shall be referred to me first

[celtic]

What if you miss a hole? Do you go back and try to figure out which way the hole before it was drilled?

We have to knock the house down if that happens :D

[steelersman]

.



Rent one [rather than buy] for one day when you have alotta holes to drill ~ the ext. and auger - you probably have them?
Leave the ladder off to the side and blitz the place in no time at all.



I don't have a need for a right angle drill, or an extension. A standard 18" auger bit and straight drill is all I need. And I only need a ladder for drilling in the ceiling joists. I can reach the top plate on 9' ceilings just fine. :)

[stickboy1375]

The reason I dont drill from the hip is because its a waste of labor and wire, I drill exactly 8" up from my outlet boxes, I use less material and my labor is faster.

[tonyou812]

I would say a comfortable week. 7:30 - 3:30 days. 1/2 hour lunch, 15-20 min coffee breaks. But thats with four guys assuming J man, apprentice and 2 helpers.

[kid_stevens]

The reason I dont drill from the hip is because its a waste of labor and wire, I drill exactly 8" up from my outlet boxes, I use less material and my labor is faster.
;)
My 90 has a 24 inch handle length that lowers it way down. The long handle serves 2 purposes keeps the drill from torquing my wrist to shreds and lowers the drill end down to 18 off the floor.

9'2 " is a reach for me with a straight drill and auger so extensions for me.

9'2" because the footers are on top of the concrete lip.

My 90 degree V28 has saved me between stud drilling and smaller holes to drill through headers on rework additions. Over 60 hours of 90 degree time in the 5 months since I bought it.

[celtic]

The reason I dont drill from the hip is because its a waste of labor and wire, I drill exactly 8" up from my outlet boxes, I use less material and my labor is faster.


How are your back and knees....and how old are you ? :D

[stickboy1375]

How are your back and knees....and how old are you ? :D

You still have to bend over to wire the receptacles unless you install them at 48" :grin: And yes, i'm young er. And I will probably change my tune in another 10 years. :)

[steelersman]

The reason I dont drill from the hip is because its a waste of labor and wire, I drill exactly 8" up from my outlet boxes, I use less material and my labor is faster.
I know for me that would take longer for labor, expecially considering you snap a line just to drill. :) And all of that just to save about 20 feet of wire?

[tonyou812]

Dont you guys use the milwakee drill with the extension ont it? or Boom drill as we call it. hole hawg......wow that hurts my kness just thinking about it......

[steelersman]

Dont you guys use the milwakee drill with the extension ont it? or Boom drill as we call it. hole hawg......wow that hurts my kness just thinking about it......
yeah I actually use a Hilti cordless 18 Volt with standard 18 inch auger bit.

[celtic]

Dont you guys use the milwakee drill with the extension ont it? or Boom drill as we call it. hole hawg......wow that hurts my kness just thinking about it......

I use a right angle drill:
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/wcsstore/METB2B/html/images/mediumprod/3107-6.jpg


NOT a hole hawg:
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/wcsstore/METB2B/html/images/mediumprod/1670-1.jpg

[kid_stevens]

I use the 90 you show with the V28 Battery 300 holes in slow speed before a 1 hour charge and if I flip the head for faster 90 speed I get 200 holes before a 1 hour charge. Milwaukee Rocks! :)

[stickboy1375]

I know for me that would take longer for labor, expecially considering you snap a line just to drill. :) And all of that just to save about 20 feet of wire?

20' ft of wire? are you kidding me? do the math. then talk the talk.

[kid_stevens]

My holes are about 12 above the box so 4 inches times 60 outlets and switches in the last new house I did cost me 240 inches of wire / 12 = 20 feet. Seems I came out the same.

[steelersman]

20' ft of wire? are you kidding me? do the math. then talk the talk.
you are nuts!! :) While you are doing the math and snapping lines and bending over to drill I'm pulling wire already. :)

[steelersman]

My holes are about 12 above the box so 4 inches times 60 outlets and switches in the last new house I did cost me 240 inches of wire / 12 = 20 feet. Seems I came out the same.
exactly!! :)

[peter d]

I use a right angle drill:
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/wcsstore/METB2B/html/images/mediumprod/3107-6.jpg


I call that a "plumber's drill" because that's what they typically use around here for their self-feed bits.

But I can't understand using it to rough a new house. I have both the D-handle and Hole Hawg and the slower motor speed of the D-handle drives me nuts compared to the Hole Hawg, at least to push a 7/8" auger bit to rough in. The D-handle is good for old work though.

[stickboy1375]

My holes are about 12 above the box so 4 inches times 60 outlets and switches in the last new house I did cost me 240 inches of wire / 12 = 20 feet. Seems I came out the same.


I'm not talking about 12" above the box, the guys are drilling at the hip. so unless your a midget. :wink:

[stickboy1375]

exactly!! :)

You drill at the hip, but your 12" above your receptacle boxes? :-?8-)

[peter d]

One word "SimPull" Romex won't bind unless a kink is in it.


I agree....all NM cable is not created equal. In fact some of it is downright junkl. The Colonial brand that we have up north here has the consistency of fine grit sandpaper on the jacket.

[stickboy1375]

you are nuts!! :) While you are doing the math and snapping lines and bending over to drill I'm pulling wire already. :)

and while your struggling with your holes, i'm already way past you. :D Look, I really dont care how you wire, I honestly dont. but I will tell you an easier way to do the job, I'm not about to have a peeing contest with you, I already have seen your true colors. :wink:

[steelersman]

You drill at the hip, but your 12" above your receptacle boxes? :-?8-)
yeah roughly. Maybe 15. Ooh an extra 3 inches.

[stickboy1375]

yeah roughly. Maybe 15. Ooh an extra 3 inches.

You guys are killing me, try reading the posts, I was responding to guys that drill at the hip, try and keep up. :roll:

[steelersman]

and while your struggling with your holes, i'm already way past you. :D Look, I really dont care how you wire, I honestly dont. but I will tell you an easier way to do the job, I'm not about to have a peeing contest with you, I already have seen your true colors. :wink:
your opinion is that it's an easier way to do the job. My opinion is that you are very anal in the first place to snap a chalk line just to drill your holes. :) I really don't know what your intention is about the true colors reference, but I'm sure that obsessive compulsive technique is much slower. :)

[stickboy1375]

your opinion is that it's an easier way to do the job. My opinion is that you are very anal in the first place to snap a chalk line just to drill your holes. :) I really don't know what your intention is about the true colors reference, but I'm sure that obsessive compulsive technique is much slower. :)

Never mind...

[steelersman]

You guys are killing me, try reading the posts, I was responding to guys that drill at the hip, try and keep up. :roll:
yeah drilling at the hip for most would be roughly 12- 16 inches give or take for a person's height and how high they are installing the boxes. I didn't realize that you thought that anyone wasn't keeping up. What's to keep up with? You're already behind cause your still snapping lines and laying down just to drill out and I'm pulling wire and almost ready to tie in now. :)

[peter d]

I don't have a need for a right angle drill, or an extension. A standard 18" auger bit and straight drill is all I need.

Ok, I need to get in on the action. A straight drill for roughing in? :confused:

[stickboy1375]

yeah drilling at the hip for most would be roughly 12- 16 inches give or take for a person's height and how high they are installing the boxes. I didn't realize that you thought that anyone wasn't keeping up. What's to keep up with? You're already behind cause your still snapping lines and laying down just to drill out and I'm pulling wire and almost ready to tie in now. :)


Yeah, no comment. Not trying to put you down, but its over your head what I was talking about.

[steelersman]

Ok, I need to get in on the action. A straight drill for roughing in? :confused:
my terminology may be wrong. I just mean a regular drill. Not the hole hawg and not the D handle and not the right angle either. I can't find a pic of it on milwaukee's site, but similar to the hole hawg but not quite as intricate. Basically a standard cordless drill.

[steelersman]

Yeah, no comment. Not trying to put you down, but its over your head what I was talking about.
yeah your just far too complex for me. I wish I could hang with you.

[peter d]

my terminology may be wrong. I just mean a regular drill. Not the hole hawg and not the D handle and not the right angle either. I can't find a pic of it on milwaukee's site, but similar to the hole hawg but not quite as intricate. Basically a standard cordless drill.

I know what you meant...I was more commenting about the potential for wrist breakage by using a corded straight drill. But you said cordless....even a cordless with an auger is a risky proposition, but to each their own. :)

[steelersman]

I know what you meant...I was more commenting about the potential for wrist breakage by using a corded straight drill. But you said cordless....even a cordless with an auger is a risky proposition, but to each their own. :)
Well the cordless drill I use combined with only a half inch auger bit never threatens to twist my wrist like the electric drills.

[stickboy1375]

yeah your just far too complex for me. I wish I could hang with you.


its not that complex, thats why I dont understand. :-? If you really wanna know what i'm talking about just PM me, but i'm not about to get into an posting argument, I will explain what i'm talking about, and I will listen to what your talking about, but were both obviously not on the same page.

[steelersman]

its not that complex, thats why I dont understand. :-? If you really wanna know what i'm talking about just PM me, but i'm not about to get into an posting argument, I will explain what i'm talking about, and I will listen to what your talking about, but were both obviously not on the same page.
ok I'll PM you.

[celtic]

I call that a "plumber's drill" because that's what they typically use around here for their self-feed bits.

But I can't understand using it to rough a new house. I have both the D-handle and Hole Hawg and the slower motor speed of the D-handle drives me nuts compared to the Hole Hawg, at least to push a 7/8" auger bit to rough in. The D-handle is good for old work though.

Works like a champ!
Cheaper than a hole hawg and lighter also.
Why would you need a brute like the hole hawg for a 7/8" hole?

Ok, I need to get in on the action. A straight drill for roughing in? :confused:

Well the cordless drill I use combined with only a half inch auger bit never threatens to twist my wrist like the electric drills.

A 1/2" bit :-?

3/4" or 7/8" ...sure, but 1/2" - that makes for extra work above switch locations, panel, etc

[peter d]

Why would you need a brute like the hole hawg for a 7/8" hole?


The main reason for me is the high speed setting on the Hawg.

[nolabama]

hey kid stevens will this extension work with the v28 ?
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=27&catalogId=40028&langId=-1&mainCategoryId=192327&fromSearch=Y&productId=684037#

[celtic]

Why would you need a brute like the hole hawg for a 7/8" hole?


The main reason for me is the high speed setting on the Hawg.

Sure it's a bit faster [1200 rpm vs. 900]....but IMHO, not worth the money for me.
A rt. angle w/ a sharp auger and away we gooooooo....

[peter d]

Sure it's a bit faster [1200 rpm vs. 900]....but IMHO, not worth the money for me.
A rt. angle w/ a sharp auger and away we gooooooo....

Well I've been living in the dark ages...my D-handle is the 500 rpm model (old one from the early 80's). I need an upgrade. :)

[tonyou812]

Doesn't anybody use the milwaukee D handle drill with the 30 inch extension? Its very efficient. very little need for a ladder in most homes. It goes by many names. Boom drill, tube drill. Its the first big tool I bought. I personally cant stand roughing a house without one. I dont usually snap a chalk line though. I grab a stick and use a sharpie to mark studs.
I think neatness goes a long way with inspectors and GCs and once you get the hang of it it doesn't take that much longer to do. I pride myself on my work. I dont ever want to be one of these "I can wire that house in two days guys"
I dont care what the say, when you do that you make way too many compromises in your work. And I charge accordingly. If there is no money to be made in a house than let the monkey, ratty van electricians do it. Ive come accross many homes wired during the resi boom and I thank them for all the service work they left us. Ive come across homes that have two circuts for the second floor totally pushed to the max. One vacume cleaner and pop.

[celtic]

Well I've been living in the dark ages...:)

...and you call yourself an electrician?

:D

Doesn't anybody use the milwaukee D handle drill with the 30 inch extension?

Nope....Rt. angle, auger and an extension....no ladder or stilts required :smile:

[iwire]

Well I've been living in the dark ages...my D-handle is the 500 rpm model (old one from the early 80's). I need an upgrade. :)

There are three models of hole hogs last I knew, I prefer the slower RPM model with higher torque, I make those smaller right angle drill release smoke.

[kid_stevens]

With my long torgue handle and the fact that my hands come down 18 inches on a 5'9 body with a 11-1/2 degree permanently bent back (Thank You Navy) my drill height is 24" off the floor. We place the bottom box screw 12 inches from the floor. So I am really 8 inches above the box.

[tonyou812]

There are three models of hole hogs last I knew, I prefer the slower RPM model with higher torque, I make those smaller right angle drill release smoke.

Thats cause alot of guys try to use the same dull bit home after home. Either you learn how to effectivly sharpen your bits or buy a new bit for each home. A hole hwag is overkill for a 7/8 hole imo.

[peter d]

There are three models of hole hogs last I knew, I prefer the slower RPM model with higher torque, I make those smaller right angle drill release smoke.

D handles (http://www.milwaukeetool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_27_40028_-1_192165_192137) Hole Hawgs (www.milwaukeetool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_27_40028_-1_192164_192137)

[peter d]

...and you call yourself an electrician?

:D

Not at all...I call myself a trunkslamming hack. :cool:

[steelersman]

A 1/2" bit :-?

3/4" or 7/8" ...sure, but 1/2" - that makes for extra work above switch locations, panel, etc


Yeah I thought some would say something about that but I like the half inch cause then I usually don't need a kick plate.

[iwire]

Thats cause alot of guys try to use the same dull bit home after home. Either you learn how to effectively sharpen your bits or buy a new bit for each home. A hole hwag is overkill for a 7/8 hole imo.

Or it is because even with a sharp bit I lay into it. Much like a drill press, low speed, heavy pressure.

I also very rarely drill wood.

I had to make more then 75 1/2" KOs in a wireway, I laid the wire way on the ground, one hole hog, one 7/8" uni bit and a cup of snow to cool the bit between each hole. I was done in very short time and the bit was still sharp, the key is keeping it cool. Of course the pile of smoking hot metal chips where sticking to my boots. :grin:

[tonyou812]

Or it is because even with a sharp bit I lay into it. Much like a drill press, low speed, heavy pressure.

I also very rarely drill wood.

I had to make more then 75 1/2" KOs in a wireway, I laid the wire way on the ground, one hole hog, one 7/8" uni bit and a cup of snow to cool the bit between each hole. I was done in very short time and the bit was still sharp, the key is keeping it cool. Of course the pile of smoking hot metal chips where sticking to my boots. :grin:
I like to use cutting oil when I have to unibit alot of holes, like the tops of panels and what not. It buys the bit alittle more time. But when I drill wood and need to make a larger hole the hole hawg is the way to go.

[celtic]

Not at all...I call myself a trunkslamming hack. :cool:

LOL...watch those fingers when you slam the trunk and then peel-out to cash the HO's check before they stop payment :D

[Greg Swartz]

I add a new Greenlee Auger bit to every house job in the estimate and with my 90 degree V28 Milwaukee I drill about 200 holes in 3 hours in the Horizontal direction. And I still have one light on my battery.

Gonna have to buy one of those.
Got the drill, sawzall, circ saw, light, big impact, and band saw...
200 holes on 1 battery... impressive.

I still use my super hawg...

[Greg Swartz]

I like to use cutting oil when I have to unibit alot of holes, like the tops of panels and what not. It buys the bit alittle more time. But when I drill wood and need to make a larger hole the hole hawg is the way to go.

Ever use "Anchor Lube?" It's the best thing I have ever used.
The bit hardly even gets hot. And they last for a veeeerrryyy long time.