Residential Pool question(s) and story

[c2500]

On Monday, I was called to speak with a pool installer. He is going to install a fiberglass pool, with a wet niche LED light. He said he would run a copper wire around the pool, under the concrete, then tie it to a ground rod. He also said the county would inspect it. (it is in the city).

He then said some things related to the gas heater which concerned me more.

So, short of the long.....I went to the city and ask if the county inspected pools (I have never dealt with a pool, so I thought it could be possible)

The city said they inpect pools and issue the permits. Then I found out the company was not (business) licensed to install pools in the city. They only had a landscaper's license.

Then I talked to the mechanical inspector, and he confirmed my fears on the heater.

Then I talked to the electrical inspector and was kinda chewed out. Here I was trying to do the right thing, oh well no good deed goes unpunished.

So what I have is MC run from the panel to the switch and then from the switch out. It is to be hooked to the light. It will be placed on a Ground Fault breaker. I have not seen any equipment yet.

In the garage, there are two seperate #10-2 NM for the pumps. The installer never gave me any specs, so i best guessed with the 10.

The bonding grid is my main question. Am I reading correctly that it is a grid that surrounds the contour of the pool for three feet? Also the grid is tied together such that the grd is 12"x12" squares? An arial view would look like the pool was placed on top of a piece of graph paper?

Also, does the grid bond back to the pump in the garage with a #8?

Any insight is welcomed as I have not done a pool before.

Thanks,

c2500

[Flex]

whats were your fears on the gas heater? I am in the same position as you approaching this weekend blindly.

[brantmacga]

no grid needed on a fiberglass pool. the only bonding you will have to do is on handrails, etc. . .

the LED light should operate of a LV transformer, and therefore does not need to be on a GFCI.

what's the problem with the heater? you never said.

as far as licensing, you won't be doing any work until the guy gets a permit.

but as always, check with your local AHJ on the bonding issue. we don't do it here on fiberglass, but the code doesn't read like we're supposed to either.

if you're required to do it, the #8 would need to be connected to the pumps or anything involved with the circulation of the pool water.

[electricalperson]

you dont need to install a grid under a fiberglass pool. that grid is only for gunite pools with epoxy coated rebar. just bond all metal parts including the ladder and handrails and whatnot and run the #8 around to bond the ground around the pool. dont forget you need to bond the water too and there is a few different ways of doing it. a bonded ladder will count as the pool water bond if its inside the water. dont forget to put epoxy over the lug inside the wet niche light area where the fixture attaches too. the article that says all this fun stuff is 680.26 equipotential bonding

[stickboy1375]

No one has a problem with the ground rod?

[electricalperson]

No one has a problem with the ground rod?
the ground rod is pointless and doesnt have to be installed but it wont cause any problems obviously. we used to have an inspector that would require ground rods at 2 corners of the pool. just a big waste of time and money

[brantmacga]

dont forget you need to bond the water too and there is a few different ways of doing it.

i didn't think about that, but i'm still operating on the '05. is south carolina on the '08?

[stickboy1375]

the ground rod is pointless and doesnt have to be installed but it wont cause any problems obviously. we used to have an inspector that would require ground rods at 2 corners of the pool. just a big waste of time and money

I have a problem with it if the motor is only hooked up to the ground rod... :grin:

[electricalperson]

I have a problem with it if the motor is only hooked up to the ground rod... :grin:
well the motor needs to be bonded to everything else around the pool. if its a double insulated motor you still need a bond wire sitting next to the motor just incase they replace it with a non double insulated motor

[stickboy1375]

well the motor needs to be bonded to everything else around the pool. if its a double insulated motor you still need a bond wire sitting next to the motor just incase they replace it with a non double insulated motor

I know, but I've seen many pool pumps just anchored to a ground rod before, thats why I made that post.

[electricalperson]

I know, but I've seen many pool pumps just anchored to a ground rod before, thats why I made that post.
i never seen that before but i believe it. people do stupid things. i guess a lot of people dont understand grounding and bonding too well

[Flex]

does the bond have to go from the pump all the way around the pool to the other points, then back to the pump?

[brantmacga]

well the motor needs to be bonded to everything else around the pool. if its a double insulated motor you still need a bond wire sitting next to the motor just incase they replace it with a non double insulated motor

what exactly is everything else? (assuming a fiberglass pool w/ LED light and no handrails)

[stickboy1375]

i never seen that before but i believe it. people do stupid things. i guess a lot of people dont understand grounding and bonding too well


http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/hm_he_gutters_drainage/article/0,2085,DIY_16819_5141382_02,00.html


Check out the bottom of the page in the link I provided... Even TV screws it up... ;)

[Flex]

what exactly is everything else? (assuming a fiberglass pool w/ LED light and no handrails)

Fiberglass pool with 120v light

[stickboy1375]

Fiberglass pool with 120v light


Check out article 680, the bonding section is not that big a section.

[Flex]

i did and i think it goes from point "a" pool pump to all other points and ends at the last point. In this case the 120v pool light. Someone else told me it had to be a loop back the pump. thats why im not sure.

[stickboy1375]

i did and i think it goes from point "a" pool pump to all other points and ends at the last point. In this case the 120v pool light. Someone else told me it had to be a loop back the pump. thats why im not sure.

Dont take this the wrong way, but if you read the code, why would you believe what someone else said to you about it? but FYI, your correct and your friend is just wasting wire. :)

[Flex]

he had an inspector break his balls about it, so it had me worried. thanks for the confidence boost man im gonna do what i thought.

[stickboy1375]

he had an inspector break his balls about it, so it had me worried. thanks for the confidence boost man im gonna do what i thought.


Just so you know, in the 2008 there are some hardcore pool changes, so just keep up with the stuff.

[stickboy1375]

he had an inspector break his balls about it, so it had me worried. thanks for the confidence boost man im gonna do what i thought.

No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, no big deal in educating an inspector.

[c2500]

We just switched to 05.

With regard to the heater, the installer said they would just put a hole in the wall for the metal vent (I am assuming B-vent).

It is a 410,000 BTU gas heater. I have suggested to the HO to get a 90% efficient heater so it could be ducted in PVC. Otherwise, it has to go up to the 2nd floor roof line and will look very ugly. The is a jut out on the garage, so it would penetrate the roof, then be seen all the way up from there.

The installer did say they had never installed one in a garage before.

Also, the LED is 120 volts.

c2500

[brantmacga]

We just switched to 05.

With regard to the heater, the installer said they would just put a hole in the wall for the metal vent (I am assuming B-vent).

It is a 410,000 BTU gas heater. I have suggested to the HO to get a 90% efficient heater so it could be ducted in PVC. Otherwise, it has to go up to the 2nd floor roof line and will look very ugly. The is a jut out on the garage, so it would penetrate the roof, then be seen all the way up from there.

The installer did say they had never installed one in a garage before.

Also, the LED is 120 volts.

c2500

is there a possibility of ducting through the wall?

120V LED pool lights do have to be GFCI protected. I've seen them, but never installed one. They cost a bit more than the 12V LEDs, but I think they're a lot larger also.

[c2500]

is there a possibility of ducting through the wall?

Yes, thats why I have him checking for the 90%. Past that, without Manufacturer instructions, it is hard to say. The mechanical inspector said when he comes out he will read the instructions and verify that it is installed per them.


120V LED pool lights do have to be GFCI protected. I've seen them, but never installed one. They cost a bit more than the 12V LEDs, but I think they're a lot larger also.

Yeah this is susposed to change colors.

[brantmacga]

Yeah this is susposed to change colors.

12V's have a color show too; its just a smaller fixture.

usually, you turn power on and it goes in to auto color show. if you want it to stop, just switch off then back on within a second, like on a motion flood, and it will stay on one color.

[LarryFine]

Then I talked to the electrical inspector and was kinda chewed out.What on Earth was his complaint???

[c2500]

What on Earth was his complaint???

I told him what the guy said he was going to do. Then he tells me I need to hire someone who does pools all the time. (Maybe he forgot I was licensed as I am also a licensed builder) Then he told me to go online and research it. I know enough, having read the pool section in the 2006 IRC, to be somewhat educated on the matter. Maybe he was mad because the other inspector was at a codes seminar and he wasn't. With him, you never know. Nice one day, a jerk the next.

My big concern was my customer/friend not get screwed over by contractors that don't know what they are doing.

c2500

[iam14sure]

A double insulated motor may not need a equipment grounding conductor but it still needs a #8 attached to the bonding grid.