Aprenticeship or Not

[horsegoer]

Ok you guys probably know where I am at as far as knowledge by some of the questions I have asked and I do feel I have a lot to learn as I have never installed so much as an outlet. I am considering going into the field to start as an apprentice. They are calling the next class(Union.. I am already in the union just a differnet one) in June and I can get in there but I am concerned that it will be a pretty hefty pay cut for the first few years and I am pretty old already( 32) for this as most apprentices I would imagine are in thier early 20's. I don't have any kids and not too much overhead. Don't know what to do.

Thanks for any input.

[celtic]

(. I am already in the union just a differnet one)
What trade is it that you are invovled with now?


I am concerned that it will be a pretty hefty pay cut for the first few years and I am pretty old already( 32) for this as most apprentices I would imagine are in thier early 20's. I don't have any kids and not too much overhead. Don't know what to do.

In the long run, where is the greater earning potential - where you are at now or where you may go?

[horsegoer]

In the long run I think after I become a journeyman put together with what I have learned in the office for a few years I think that migh be a good combo.

Maybe if some people who either own a business/work in the office as a estimator, project mnager etc can chime in as to whether or not they think their field experience has helped them( granted they worked in the field).

Thanks very much.

[DAWGS]

Yes, field experience is a huge factor for estimating, and a P.M. job. If thats what you are shootin for definatley go into the apprenticeship and work as a JW a few years first.

[celtic]

Maybe if some people who either own a business/work in the office as a estimator, project mnager etc can chime in as to whether or not they think their field experience has helped them( granted they worked in the field).


I say YES.

[barbeer]

It helps to know how to do it and what to do it with to bid a job. I believe I have given you that advice before.:)

[horsegoer]

Thanks Barbeer. Did not remember you gave me that advice.

[resistance]

What trade is it that you are invovled with now?


In the long run, where is the greater earning potential - where you are at now or where you may go?

The above are good questions!

Let me say this. Many are over the age of 32 and still going strong in the electrical trade. But, many started out at a younger age. With that said, I’m sure many may agree, that with time comes experience (depending on how you apply yourself :rolleyes:) , and having this experience makes your job a lot easier! In a nut shell, and based on my experience with old, and new residential construction. I wouldn't think of starting in the residential electrical trade at 32. <--------Yet, don't let what I say discourage you! This is just my own personal feelings.

[Greg Swartz]

If you are ultimately looking for an office position, then you will need to finish your 5 year apprenticeship, and a couple years at least as a Journeyman.

I think that being a PM, General Foreman, Estimator, Superintendent are good and honorable positions... especially if you worked from an apprentice.

I just became an Electrical Engineer. It was a tough road, and I'm 36.
From Apprentice, to Journeyman, to Master, to EC, to EE... There are times that it sucked.

I agree with the guys: I wouldn't take an apprentice residential position, and can you live with the pay cut?

Also, are you going to be the best apprentice out there? My point is that there will probably be lay-offs involved, and as an apprentice, you need seniority, but you need to be better than your peers. Your bosses will find a way to keep you.

[JES2727]

I have known some apprentices who were your age and older when they got started in the JATC program. Not alot, but at least a few. If you can live with the reduction in your pay for the first couple of years, I believe it is a wothwhile endeavor regardless of your age.

[resistance]

I have known some apprentices who were your age and older when they got started in the JATC program. Not alot, but at least a few. If you can live with the reduction in your pay for the first couple of years, I believe it is a wothwhile endeavor regardless of your age.
-Depending on the kind of electrical work you are doing---Age is a huge factor!!
-Also, depending on where you live and the company you work with, the pay is not all that great for residential electricians!
-I knew some older guys breaking into the trade, but most are doing it as a hobby [:wink:], or to supplement their retirement. Trust me, they are not doing the hard work, and most were the first to go during layoffs :(

[horsegoer]

It would be Local #25 on Long Island, New York.

[horsegoer]

I would start at around $17 an hour and to off at around $43 for a journeyman. My goal would be to get back into the office after becoming a journeyman with already having about 4 years experience as an estimator. I can handle the pay cut.

[Legrand]

I stopped traveling as an industrial apprentice to settle down with the fam, I'm now a residential apprentice. It's a pay CUT. I'm BROKE. One year to go though. YEAH!!

[jmsbrush]

Hey horse Ive told ya before too lol. Nothing beats experience! I also have stated in my opinion, you can't become a good estimator until you have been in the field. Theres allot more to it , than just taking off rec and switches, when we are talking about commercial and industrial work.
I was 21 when I started my App. There were guys in there at the age of 42 and 48. I did my 5 years and topped out. I think it is one of the best things I have done for myself. Nobody can take that away when you finish. I'm an EC now and still hold my ticket. You just never know when you might need it.

With all that being said, Everyday I get to find out how much I really don't know.;) With all the experience that I have mustard up, Its just the Icing on the cake. I still find myself asking questions when I'm doing certain take offs.
Many of those times I have to go back from the Experience I have collected and make a decision.

The whole thing is a domino effect. A estimator can make or break a company,Same with a Good or bad Foreman to the crew that he is running.
If you have a good crew in place and if the estimator makes a big mistake on a bid it does not matter how good the crew is the company will loose money.

[quogueelectric]

I would start at around $17 an hour and to off at around $43 for a journeyman. My goal would be to get back into the office after becoming a journeyman with already having about 4 years experience as an estimator. I can handle the pay cut.
Sure you could just tell Chris Kelly that you want to demand more money for estimating experience.

[horsegoer]

Funny Quoge.....lol. Quoge do you know if most of Local #25 is resi?

[Fulthrotl]

Ok you guys probably know where I am at as far as knowledge by some of the questions I have asked and I do feel I have a lot to learn as I have never installed so much as an outlet. I am considering going into the field to start as an apprentice. They are calling the next class(Union.. I am already in the union just a differnet one) in June and I can get in there but I am concerned that it will be a pretty hefty pay cut for the first few years and I am pretty old already( 32) for this as most apprentices I would imagine are in thier early 20's. I don't have any kids and not too much overhead. Don't know what to do.

Thanks for any input.

depends on where you serve your apprenticeship. here's three examples:

san francisco, ca.
highest union scale in america.
last time i looked, anyway, and there were 7 hour workdays,
and double time for everything over 7 hours.
i remember seeing my working partners check stubs from the job
he just got off of before we were working together.
3 paycheck stubs in a row that were above $5,000 a week

houston, tx.
lot's of work after the flooding, the BA says.
scale is $24 an hour. oh, boy.

LADWP, los angeles, ca.
scale's good, but the pension's the thing.
3 year apprenticeship.
an old working partner is there now.
keeps calling me up, telling me to get in.
$40 an hour on the check, he's grossing 110k a year.
pension can amount to 90% of highest classification
every held, with cost of living increases, and lifetime
medical. double dipping is allowed, and encouraged.

i've worked with high school graduates who are lifers
at LADWP, retired with a pension, working as exempt
workers, who between the pension and their exempt
wages, make over $200,000 a year. it happens.

YMMV.

randy

[horsegoer]

Randy that was great info! What is the LADWP?

Thanks.

[Nick]

Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. That is local 18 a Utility Local

[horsegoer]

Yeah I went to their website. Thanks.

[peter d]

LADWP, los angeles, ca.
scale's good, but the pension's the thing.
3 year apprenticeship.
an old working partner is there now.
keeps calling me up, telling me to get in.
$40 an hour on the check, he's grossing 110k a year.
pension can amount to 90% of highest classification
every held, with cost of living increases, and lifetime
medical. double dipping is allowed, and encouraged.

i've worked with high school graduates who are lifers
at LADWP, retired with a pension, working as exempt
workers, who between the pension and their exempt
wages, make over $200,000 a year. it happens.


LADWP is a municipally owned utility, the largest in the country in fact. When I read stuff like that it makes me sick. Not that line workers shouldn't be making $40 or more an hour - they should. But making over $200K a year working for a public utility is outrageous. IMO of course.

[horsegoer]

But if you are paid by the hour and make about $40 you(for the most part) have to work ABOUT 70-80 hours a week. Isn't that the way it works? Not like your working a 40 hour week making 200k.

[iwire]

But if you are paid by the hour and make about $40 you(for the most part) have to work ABOUT 70-80 hours a week. Isn't that the way it works? Not like your working a 40 hour week making 200k.

The person making 200K is not working 70-80 hrs, they are collecting a pension and working some hours.

i've worked with high school graduates who are lifers
at LADWP, retired with a pension, working as exempt
workers, who between the pension and their exempt
wages, make over $200,000 a year. it happens.

[horsegoer]

I see the previous thread. My oversight.

[quogueelectric]

I would start at around $17 an hour and to off at around $43 for a journeyman. My goal would be to get back into the office after becoming a journeyman with already having about 4 years experience as an estimator. I can handle the pay cut.
44.75 for jman 15.66 1st period apprentice.

[Fulthrotl]

LADWP is a municipally owned utility, the largest in the country in fact. When I read stuff like that it makes me sick. Not that line workers shouldn't be making $40 or more an hour - they should. But making over $200K a year working for a public utility is outrageous. IMO of course.

it *does* seem a bit excessive, doesn't it? ;)

my toolie who is there is making about $46 per hour plus bennies,
plus a fair amount of overtime, and some travel.

he's testing for senior in his department, which will bump him another
15%

the last time i worked there, was 5 years ago, and it grossed me $85k
for 10 months work. i made the smallest amount of money in my crew,
due to the luck of the draw on tasking, and overtime. as an exempt
employee.

getting in there isn't easy. 3 years ago, i tested for electrical mechanic,
and there were 8,500 tested. this was for 25 job openings.

see the results below for my ranking among the 8,500 tested,
and then realize that my ranking was *NOT* high enough to be
offered a position.

there was a three way tie for first with 95%
there waa a two way tie for second with 94%

that wasn't good enough, as you were still behind all the
lame civil servants who got lower scores than you, but have
senority. not much of this is based on merit, most of it is based
on endurance.

YMMV.

randy

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/FulThrotl/DWPtest.gif

[Cow]

there was a three way tie for first with 95%
there waa a two way tie for second with 94%

that wasn't good enough, as you were still behind all the
lame civil servants who got lower scores than you, but have
senority. not much of this is based on merit, most of it is based
on endurance.

So let me see, you were tied for 2nd, you were one of the top 5 scorers overall, and you didn't get in?!?! If you didn't get in, we can assume the other 2nd place finisher didn't make it either. That tells me for 25 positions available, at most the top 3 1st place scorers might have made it in, and the other 22 positions were filled with civil servants. It seems that test is for keeping the "equal opportunity employer" people happy. Although very few, if any, applicants are actually hired after taking that test, when they know almost all of the positions will be filled by the civil servants anyway regardless of test score.

Is that not total BS? Not to mention the time 8500 people wasted taking that test with no chance in the world of getting in....:mad:

[Fulthrotl]

So let me see, you were tied for 2nd, you were one of the top 5 scorers overall, and you didn't get in?!?! If you didn't get in, we can assume the other 2nd place finisher didn't make it either. That tells me for 25 positions available, at most the top 3 1st place scorers might have made it in, and the other 22 positions were filled with civil servants. It seems that test is for keeping the "equal opportunity employer" people happy. Although very few, if any, applicants are actually hired after taking that test, when they know almost all of the positions will be filled by the civil servants anyway regardless of test score.

Is that not total BS? Not to mention the time 8500 people wasted taking that test with no chance in the world of getting in....:mad:

yeah... like a tree trimmer with parks and recs who has 15 years trimming
shrubs, and got a 71% on the exam..... he'll go first.

none of the outside people were selected on that round.