homeline tandem breakers

[lat1]

i installed a new circuit in a relatively new homeline panel recently. there were no spaces left so i went to the truck and pulled out a 20/20 tandem breaker to free up a space. the only problem was i couldn't find a spot on the bus bar that would allow for the shorter slot on the breaker. i know that i have installed them in homeline panels before and that some panels only have certain spots you can put them. what am i missing here?

[mdshunk]

Some of the HOM panels can take a few tandems, and some not. Use a BR non-CTL tandem instead. (shhh :D)

[electricalperson]

those 100 amp 20 circuit homeline panels dont take tandem breakers if im not mistaken. maybe you can get a cutler hammer type CL tandem breaker if they make them. or you can modify the homeline breaker with a screwdriver and your linesmen pliers but dont tell anyone i said that :)

[Cavie]

those 100 amp 20 circuit homeline panels dont take tandem breakers if im not mistaken. maybe you can get a cutler hammer type CL tandem breaker if they make them. or you can modify the homeline breaker with a screwdriver and your linesmen pliers but dont tell anyone i said that :)

Dremal tool.

[lat1]

it is a 200A 40 space panel.

[mdshunk]

it is a 200A 40 space panel.
yeah, they take tandems. The 30/40's do, but not the straight 40's.

[electricalperson]

the instructions might explain where to put the tandem breaker. i never had any problem with them in a 200a 40 circuit panel just the smaller panels

[Cavie]

it is a 200A 40 space panel.

That's why it won't fit. 40 max.

[GilbeSpark]

it is a 200A 40 space panel.

The 20/40's and 30/40's take the tandems, but the 40/40's don't. They're made that way so you can't put more than 40 circuits on the buss.

[electricalperson]

maybe he can double up a lightly loaded circuit with another lightly loaded circuit and steal that spot for a 20 amp breaker :)

[mdshunk]

maybe he can double up a lightly loaded circuit with another lightly loaded circuit and steal that spot for a 20 amp breaker :)
There you go. If you screwed up and that doubled circuit starts to trip one day, you get paid again to come back and figure something else out. :D Who's gonna know you doubled it?

[electricalperson]

There you go. If you screwed up and that doubled circuit starts to trip one day, you get paid again to come back and figure something else out. :D Who's gonna know you doubled it?

im not a big fan of doubling circuits up but sometimes it needs to be done. either that or add a subpanel just to add that one circuit

[ivsenroute]

Thank SQ D for doing this as you will now get to install more sub panels.

[electricalperson]

Thank SQ D for doing this as you will now get to install more sub panels.

but the customer might give him funny looks if he has to install a whole new panel just for one circuit. we all understand what needs to be done but the customer might wonder why hes doing that and why it costs 500-1000 dollars for one circuit

[ivsenroute]

Because he is out of room and if he "needs" another circuit then he will have to pay for it.

It is all on how you explain yourself and sell the job. I am not too concerned about someone elses money when i am trying to do what is right and or required by code.

[electricalperson]

Because he is out of room and if he "needs" another circuit then he will have to pay for it.

It is all on how you explain yourself and sell the job. I am not too concerned about someone elses money when i am trying to do what is right and or required by code.

i suppose you got a point. id probably do the same thing. he can tell him that he will have plenty of room for future circuits too

[TOOL_5150]

but the customer might give him funny looks if he has to install a whole new panel just for one circuit. we all understand what needs to be done but the customer might wonder why hes doing that and why it costs 500-1000 dollars for one circuit

Thats a bargen here in CA.

~Matt

[Greg Swartz]

i installed a new circuit in a relatively new homeline panel recently. there were no spaces left so i went to the truck and pulled out a 20/20 tandem breaker to free up a space. the only problem was i couldn't find a spot on the bus bar that would allow for the shorter slot on the breaker. i know that i have installed them in homeline panels before and that some panels only have certain spots you can put them. what am i missing here?
I actually had to call Square D on this one.

There are standard HOM breakers, and HOMT breakers... yes T for tandem.
Square D says that any panel that states 20/20 or 30/30 or 40/40 will not take a Tandem breaker. The first number is for spaces, second number is for number of breakers.
A 20/30 means 20 spaces and 30 breakers. So, only the last few spots have the Tandem ability. Same with a 30/40.

I got a 40/40 once. I needed 42 spots... it wouldn't work, and the inspector knew about the space limitation anyway.

Hope that helps.

By the way, don't modify the breaker to make it fit. It IS easy enough, but just not worth the hassle... or inspector issue... or insurance issue.

[TOOL_5150]

By the way, don't modify the breaker to make it fit. It IS easy enough, but just not worth the hassle... or inspector issue... or insurance issue.

Yeah, Because when I sell the customer a panel upgrade, I want to be able to re-use the breakers I pull out, if possible. Last panel upgrade I did I pulled out a small murray panel and there was a CH quad stuck in there... The back was all busted out - now its garbage. :mad:

~Matt

[electricmanscott]

Thank SQ D for doing this as you will now get to install more sub panels.

Sq D didn't do anything wrong and this is nothing new or even the slightest bit difficult or unusual. The panel is rated for 40 circuits. It is full. All manufacturers have max # of circuits for their panels.




As an electrician it is up to you to figure out what the proper way to add this circuit should be.

[masterinbama]

Why can't he do what a homeowner wanted me to do to free up a space once. He said "why not put these 2 15 amp circuits on a 30 amp breaker?" That is why I think that 30 ,40,and 50 amp single poles should be like pistols. You must be licensed to buy them.

[iwire]

That is why I think that 30 ,40,and 50 amp single poles should be like pistols. You must be licensed to buy them.

Breakers don't kill people, unqualified people kill people. :grin:

[mdshunk]

Breakers don't kill people, unqualified people kill people. :grin:That reminds me of a quote:

"Would it make you feel better, little girl, if they was pushed outta windows?" -Archie Bunker.

[G0049]

That reminds me of a quote

Marc, did you just pull that out of your head?

Who all would like a guided tour of all the strange, weird stuff Marc has in there? Maybe next Halloween, as it's going to be pretty scary...8-)

[mdshunk]

Marc, did you just pull that out of your head?
Mostly. I had to Google around for the exact wording, but I can picture the exact scene in the sitcom where those words were spoken. Archie's daughter was railing against guns, and that was his response.