Needing a new Journeyman Electrician

[Greg Swartz]

Ok, so you remember my last thread about the car wash... well, the Journeyman has decided to quit. (I did not pressure him at all, I did not ask, encourage, or even hint to this...)

So, Friday's his last day.

I am now on the hunt for a new Journeyman.

Here is the link for my craigslist ad:xxxx

First off: What do you think about the ad?

Second: What do YOU look for in hiring a new guy?

Third: Do you have any interview scripts?

Fourth: Where else should I advertise?

Thanks,
Greg

[nolabama]

answer to no. 1 - i like the add its pretty good - i hope you pay well giving what you expect of them

answer to no. 2 - the current company i work for looks for a pulse

answer to no. 3 - the only thing i have gathered from (gleened if you will) my boss's interviews is : how many three way switches can you have

answer to no. 4 - craigslist is a good start - weeds out those who are computer illeterite

and a question to the contractors out their - how many of you make your jw's do this
Be able to create a bill, invoice customers, and receive payment.
i absolutly hate collecting from customers for my ec

[nafis]

Ok, so you remember my last thread about the car wash... well, the Journeyman has decided to quit. (I did not pressure him at all, I did not ask, encourage, or even hint to this...)

So, Friday's his last day.

I am now on the hunt for a new Journeyman.

Here is the link for my craigslist ad:xxxx

First off: What do you think about the ad?

Second: What do YOU look for in hiring a new guy?

Third: Do you have any interview scripts?

Fourth: Where else should I advertise?

Thanks,
Greg

the ad looks great and stright forward

2nd I look for honesty and punctuality

3rd Interview script I usually keep it simple and introduce my self
And ask him or her to tell me about their self and the last job he or she had.
The worst situation or problem they had on the job and what action has been taken to correct the problem or situation…… and go from there.

Contact your IEC or local recruiting company

good luck

[Greg Swartz]

answer to no. 1 - i like the add its pretty good - i hope you pay well giving what you expect of them

I hope to pay well... If I can provide a good atmosphere, keep him motivated, and pay well... He will want to work for me... He will more than likely work better, and he will more than likely work faster (for those small bid jobs), and he will more than likely have a better attitude.

All factors for the interview.


answer to no. 3 - the only thing i have gathered from (gleened if you will) my boss's interviews is : how many three way switches can you have

I think I can fit about 2500 in the back of the truck, maybe 4500 in the van... but I can install them in pairs... :wink:

and a question to the contractors out their - how many of you make your jw's do this
Be able to create a bill, invoice customers, and receive payment.
i absolutly hate collecting from customers for my ec
Why do you hate this? I want to understand things from your point of view.

[jrannis]

This is the first place I would look.
Get someone that likes to do service work.
They have an excellent apprentice program too.

xxxx

[BryanMD]

I hope to pay well...

Why do you hate this?

I want to understand things from your point of view.


You *hope* to pay well? Why don't you know?
What I mean is... don't you already have a nice bundle tucked away to pay him from or do you expect to pay him out of your week to week receipts? And know *exactly* how much a guy of the calibre you want will both need and expect? (hint: if he is any good he very probably has a job doing it, with benefits, etc. Can you really compete?)

Which gets to the "paperwork" aspect of things... in general, there are two types of JW's. The guys who will always be JW's and the guys who will be your competition in 3 years.

Which do you want to spend a ton of cash in wages and training on?

[charlietuna]

Your add should indicate what this man's weekly pay "MIGHT" be ? You are asking for a lot and in return you need to post a serious,very serious benifit package along with hourly wage??? Quality service people are a dying breed in our trade and your specifications are in the 1 in 1000 range, almost askig for someone who is qualified to be in business like you!!!

[ivsenroute]

You intimidating Jarhead, wonder why he quit. ;)

[Greg Swartz]

you intimidating jarhead, wonder why he quit. ;)
rofl...lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg Swartz]

...You are asking for a lot and in return you need to post a serious,very serious benifit package along with hourly wage??? Quality service people are a dying breed in our trade and your specifications are in the 1 in 1000 range, almost askig for someone who is qualified to be in business like you!!!

I know. That is what is so scary...

[ITO]

A word of advice that I got to relearn more than a few times. When a man (or woman) tells you they don’t want to work for you any more and gives out the courtesy of two weeks notice, make your plans fast then thank them for their service, and after you have collected their keys, tools, and cell phones, cut them a check for the remainder of the two weeks and walk them out the door.

In my case I don’t even make plans, I just get my stuff, cut the two week check and walk them out as fast as I can. The vast majority of people that quit me don’t give me notice of any kind they just drag up which is fine with me, and there have been a limited few that had to leave for medical or other reasons and sincerely did not want to leave but their circumstances changed and they had to move on, and I still cut the two week checks and walked them out.

Something happens to people when they decide to leave you and sometimes their hearts and heads just are not with your company any more (that is putting it nicely) and it causes problems, and it has cost me a lot of money over the years.

Now before anyone gets all defensive about how they would never do anything disreputable after putting in their notice….save your breath I know everyone here is perfect to don’t bother reminding us. I know everyone wont agree with this advice too and it took repeated lessons of my own heartburn to relearn it myself.

[mikeames]

Can I come work for you for two weeks :D

[Greg Swartz]

Well, had my first interview today: No call, no show...

NEXT!...

I have had 3 phone calls from apprentices... and one guy who is "taking his test soon."

(I've heard that before!) 8-)

[nolabama]

why do i hate collecting for my ec - lets count the ways shall we

1. first time i did this for him was for a t&m job that is to complex to begin talking about - the jist is , his men could not wire a 4 way switch to save their lives and i trouble shot this nightmare house (katrina rewire where only flooded wire was replaced - buexcoup j-b's ) after three others had tried to no avail and the bill was due - he charged 110 an hour for the work the others had done wrong - customer would not pay :mad:

2. second situation was a service change/insurance job/fire - his son and this other jk/a hooked up a 90 amp heater to the service of this old ladys home - no big deal right - wish those two a**hats would have noticed the 65 amp meter can feeding the 125 amp panel :-?- soo... after his son set fire to her house one cold night we got to do a service change and when her insurance paid her we went and collected - she refused to pay the entire amount stateing that we should have noticed that we were building a fire on the side of her house and shorted us 300 bucks - oh and she paid in cash -2200 bucks (he better be glad im an honest man) and we had no way of cutting her a reciept for the company - i luckily had the office depot invoice pad in my metal notebook i use to write my customers reciepts ( did i mention i will be his competetion soon)

3. last and not least - a customer of mine wanted some work done - quite substanial i might add - i did not feel that i should be doing it givin the current situation with our company - we were slooow and it was sounding like he might not make payroll , soo.... i toss him a bone and set this up, i go over with this waiter friend of his son's turned 2 week green helper and put in a week's worth of work in this place and we get a bunch done. - i like your add states have all my own tools, my benders, my sawzall, my drills, my hand tools lent to stoopid helper, the only thing of his that i am useing (which is very substantial i might add) is his credit accounts at the supply shops, everythings gravy right - i get the bill and hunt down my customer and get her to pay us like im some jack leg mechanic (which i might add i am) - he gets a nice bump from one of my customers at a rate that i feel is quite a bit high in this particular market ($110 an hour - one of the best plumber shops in this area sends two licensed plumbers out for $95 bucks an hour - $90 an hour is resonable for electrical work here - but 110 is a bit high) - and the straw that breaks the camels back here is HE DID NOT FILE THE JOB ahem, so what would be the difference if i did the work myself and not have cut him in at all - this left a particularly bad taste in my mouth -

all said im done with this contractor tomorrow - putting in my two weeks - i cant make it till my birthday

[hardworkingstiff]

- how many of you make your jw's do this
Be able to create a bill, invoice customers, and receive payment.
i absolutly hate collecting from customers for my ec

I think you are being short cited. If you learn how to do this, you are one step closer to moving up, or moving out (on your own). The great part, your being paid to learn.

[nolabama]

dont get me wrong i apreciate the ability to learn business but please see above post

[emahler]

A word of advice that I got to relearn more than a few times. When a man (or woman) tells you they don’t want to work for you any more and gives out the courtesy of two weeks notice, make your plans fast then thank them for their service, and after you have collected their keys, tools, and cell phones, cut them a check for the remainder of the two weeks and walk them out the door.

In my case I don’t even make plans, I just get my stuff, cut the two week check and walk them out as fast as I can. The vast majority of people that quit me don’t give me notice of any kind they just drag up which is fine with me, and there have been a limited few that had to leave for medical or other reasons and sincerely did not want to leave but their circumstances changed and they had to move on, and I still cut the two week checks and walked them out.

Something happens to people when they decide to leave you and sometimes their hearts and heads just are not with your company any more (that is putting it nicely) and it causes problems, and it has cost me a lot of money over the years.

Now before anyone gets all defensive about how they would never do anything disreputable after putting in their notice….save your breath I know everyone here is perfect to don’t bother reminding us. I know everyone wont agree with this advice too and it took repeated lessons of my own heartburn to relearn it myself.

my 1st thought...

[emahler]

why do i hate collecting for my ec - lets count the ways shall we

1. first time i did this for him was for a t&m job that is to complex to begin talking about - the jist is , his men could not wire a 4 way switch to save their lives and i trouble shot this nightmare house (katrina rewire where only flooded wire was replaced - buexcoup j-b's ) after three others had tried to no avail and the bill was due - he charged 110 an hour for the work the others had done wrong - customer would not pay :mad:

2. second situation was a service change/insurance job/fire - his son and this other jk/a hooked up a 90 amp heater to the service of this old ladys home - no big deal right - wish those two a**hats would have noticed the 65 amp meter can feeding the 125 amp panel :-?- soo... after his son set fire to her house one cold night we got to do a service change and when her insurance paid her we went and collected - she refused to pay the entire amount stateing that we should have noticed that we were building a fire on the side of her house and shorted us 300 bucks - oh and she paid in cash -2200 bucks (he better be glad im an honest man) and we had no way of cutting her a reciept for the company - i luckily had the office depot invoice pad in my metal notebook i use to write my customers reciepts ( did i mention i will be his competetion soon)

3. last and not least - a customer of mine wanted some work done - quite substanial i might add - i did not feel that i should be doing it givin the current situation with our company - we were slooow and it was sounding like he might not make payroll , soo.... i toss him a bone and set this up, i go over with this waiter friend of his son's turned 2 week green helper and put in a week's worth of work in this place and we get a bunch done. - i like your add states have all my own tools, my benders, my sawzall, my drills, my hand tools lent to stoopid helper, the only thing of his that i am useing (which is very substantial i might add) is his credit accounts at the supply shops, everythings gravy right - i get the bill and hunt down my customer and get her to pay us like im some jack leg mechanic (which i might add i am) - he gets a nice bump from one of my customers at a rate that i feel is quite a bit high in this particular market ($110 an hour - one of the best plumber shops in this area sends two licensed plumbers out for $95 bucks an hour - $90 an hour is resonable for electrical work here - but 110 is a bit high) - and the straw that breaks the camels back here is HE DID NOT FILE THE JOB ahem, so what would be the difference if i did the work myself and not have cut him in at all - this left a particularly bad taste in my mouth -

all said im done with this contractor tomorrow - putting in my two weeks - i cant make it till my birthday

yet he still get's it, and you plan on undercutting him as a method to success...oy vey...

[emahler]

I think you are being short cited. If you learn how to do this, you are one step closer to moving up, or moving out (on your own). The great part, your being paid to learn.

the flip side, you don't teach them...they still go out on their own...and screw up the industry out of ignorance...much better end result...

[nolabama]

point taken - but i have not had a 40 hour work week in a number of months - its funny that you noticed the undercutting, lowballing but not the HOUSE FIRE and i do not want to be the most expensive contractor in the city - but i do feel that if you are one of the higher paid rate contractors in the city you SHOULD NOT BUILD FIRES

[emahler]

point taken - but i have not had a 40 hour work week in a number of months - its funny that you noticed the undercutting, lowballing but not the HOUSE FIRE and i do not want to be the most expensive contractor in the city - but i do feel that if you are one of the higher paid rate contractors in the city you SHOULD NOT BUILD FIRES

incompetence knows no price point...that would have happened if he charged $40 or $110...

the fact that he gets $110/hr for incompetent help should easily justify $110/hr for competent help from you...


Stewart Services is in your neighborhood, correct?

[nolabama]

Stuart yes and a stewart and associates and point taken on incompentence

[emahler]

i do not want to be the most expensive contractor in the city -

why not? are you not worthy? have some confidence....

Stuart yes and a stewart and associates and point taken on incompentence

Stuart...look at how they work...highly successful, well paid employees, benefits, etc...sure ain't the cheapest shop in town...

[nolabama]

stuart - uniforms - competent men - wraped vans - advertising campain - hvac work - no that is not cheap

[ce2two]

Why not come up with a test? Say 20 questions ...YOU need to be fiqure out what your getting for the job at hand ...comm,res, ind. questions .....You don't need a poser ...We have 13 guys in our shop 10 are barely capable of working on there there own ...I'm tired of training people ....

[celtic]

Here is the link for my craigslist ad: xxxx

Have their own hand tools, 1/2" & 3/4" benders, something to cut conduit with, and a cordless drill.


I have a claw hammer to cut conduit with...it might take all day to cut the 1/2".

Am I hired?

[George Stolz]

Why not come up with a test?
I've seen very talented, bright, experienced electricians bomb company tests. It's not very conclusive, IMO.

[480sparky]

I've seen very talented, bright, experienced electricians bomb company tests. It's not very conclusive, IMO.

Same goes for JW/Master/EC tests.

I've known some guys out there who have been running huge commercial jobs for years (hospitals, shopping malls, etc.) that couldn't pass the JW test to save their life. They're still darn good 'lectershuns, but just can't pass the test.

OTOH, I've seen 2nd-year apprentices who have already passed their Master's test and are just putting in their time until they get their hours documented.

[Greg Swartz]

I got another question for you all: Are we out of control on this thread?

I just got a PM from a moderator about too much advertising on this thread.

I'm a bit confused since I just asked for help on this manner...

So, I guess that I'll just ask that anyone that has anything that they think could help me... would you please PM me so that we do not get muted / edited / flamed / banned...

Thanks,

Greg

[George Stolz]

I got another question for you all: Are we out of control on this thread?

I just got a PM from a moderator about too much advertising on this thread.
Whoa, there. I've been keeping an eye on this one as well, because from the heading and original post, it was on the fine line of solicitation. Personally, I took no action because I saw you were seeking input on your solicitation outside of the forum, which made it a shade different, but very similar nonetheless. I would not characterize the behavior in this thread as "out of control", and I think that your question is a little loaded - don't you think?

I can understand Jim's action, and support it.

Your original post had four questions, three of which that are fully within the scope of the forum, and can be discussed without the visual aid of your Craigslist ad. Would you agree with that assessment? :)

So, I guess that I'll just ask that anyone that has anything that they think could help me... would you please PM me so that we do not get muted / edited / flamed / banned...Greg, unfortunately, the wheels are already in motion. Everyone in this thread is either going to be banned or die of natural causes, whichever comes first. :D

[Greg Swartz]

Whoa, there. I've been keeping an eye on this one as well, because from the heading and original post, it was on the fine line of solicitation. Personally, I took no action because I saw you were seeking input on your solicitation outside of the forum, which made it a shade different, but very similar nonetheless. I would not characterize the behavior in this thread as "out of control", and I think that your question is a little loaded - don't you think?

I can understand Jim's action, and support it.

Your original post had four questions, three of which that are fully within the scope of the forum, and can be discussed without the visual aid of your Craigslist ad. Would you agree with that assessment? :)

Greg, unfortunately, the wheels are already in motion. Everyone in this thread is either going to be banned or die of natural causes, whichever comes first. :D

George,
I am sorry that you support his actions.

I asked for help...

The ad in question... was to get a JOURNEYMAN electrician... not soliciting BUSINESS...

That is REALLY what upsets me... I asked for help... and any help that I got... regarding where to seek a journeyman... is now deleted... because someone thinks I am advertising too much...

I am asking for help... and I get shut down... yeah... I'm upset! :mad:
Greg

[George Stolz]

That is REALLY what upsets me... I asked for help... and any help that I got... regarding where to seek a journeyman... is now deleted... because someone thinks I am advertising too much...

I am asking for help... and I get shut down... yeah... I'm upset! :mad:
Greg
I can understand that, and I empathize, but look at the flip side of the coin: your original post can be construed as soliciting for electricians from this forum. If someone were to say that you built the original post up a bit to distract from it, but that was your initial goal, they would have a plausible case for that argument, wouldn't they?

This would be a good place to advertise that you were looking for help, right? Heck, I found my current employer from this forum; the employer found a code-geek employee, and the employee found a like-minded employer. However, that ball got rolling without public solicitation on the Forum.

So, I need to ask two things: one, cool down for the night about the issue.

Two, if you wake up in the morning and still feel like things aren't right, let's continue this discussion via PM, as detailed here (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=958728&postcount=7). Continuing the discussion in this thread will not aid in answering your very valid last three questions in the OP, and will only muck it up. In the meantime, the undisputed portion of the thread can continue uninterrupted.

Agreed? :)

[Greg Swartz]

I can understand that, and I empathize, but look at the flip side of the coin: your original post can be construed as soliciting for electricians from this forum. If someone were to say that you built the original post up a bit to distract from it, but that was your initial goal, they would have a plausible case for that argument, wouldn't they?
Wow, that's quite a stretch...


So, I need to ask two things: one, cool down for the night about the issue.

Two, if you wake up in the morning and still feel like things aren't right, let's continue this discussion via PM, as detailed here (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=958728&postcount=7). Continuing the discussion in this thread will not aid in answering your very valid last three questions in the OP, and will only muck it up. In the meantime, the undisputed portion of the thread can continue uninterrupted.

Agreed? :)
So, you tell me to take things to PM... but tell me in public to cool down... how diplomatic.

You know... I took it to PM before I brought it public... But hey, I got no response... so... I brought things to light...

Good night.

[ramsy]

There is an EC forum that has a "help wanted" section.
http://www.electrical-contractor.net/classifieds.htm

[hardworkingstiff]

Agreed? :)


LMAO, like he has a choice? :rolleyes:

[bjp_ne_elec]

Ok, so you remember my last thread about the car wash... well, the Journeyman has decided to quit. (I did not pressure him at all, I did not ask, encourage, or even hint to this...)

So, Friday's his last day.

I am now on the hunt for a new Journeyman.

Here is the link for my craigslist ad:xxxx

First off: What do you think about the ad?

Second: What do YOU look for in hiring a new guy?

Third: Do you have any interview scripts?

Fourth: Where else should I advertise?

Thanks,
Greg

Definitely make sure he understands motor control circuitry. ;)

As far as the ad, I would never ask an employee to have his own power tools - that's something the contractor should supply. Hand tools - absolutely, but you supply the hack saw blades!

[480sparky]

Have you thought about requiring a current drivers' license? Your insurance may require a valid DL if the person is going to operate company vehicles.