Dealing With Screamers

[George Stolz]

Have you ever had to work with a screamer? You know, someone who can't speak in a civil tone when either offering direction, correction or just participating in a discussion.

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine is an EC working for a screaming GC. That GC has his good and bad days. My buddy has a decent amount of pride and by all rights probably wouldn't normally put up with the outbursts, but the GC is a pretty steady income in a somewhat slow winter. The funny thing is, the GC commented that one of his prior electricians in years past informed the GC that he was walking off the job, he had no time for it. The GC was relaying the story in part because my buddy called him out on it.

The irony was, the GC was saying that sometimes, he needed a gut check like that to keep his screaming in check - but the reason it was being discussed was because he had just got done screaming (in a bad way about the customer) within earshot of the customer, at the EC. :D

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day, and he asked me (and I forward the question to you): As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer? Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew? Are screamer's crews more or less productive?

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

[480sparky]

Screaming, AS IN TYPING WITH YOUR CAPS LOCK ON....EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS?

Or screaming, as in "Geez Louise, you people are a bunch of dolts! How can you survive each day and live to go home?"

The former I can deal with. I have a set of http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/CaldwellES-85HearingProtector.jpgin the truck.

The latter I have no time for.

[George Stolz]

Combine the two. :D

[quogueelectric]

Have you ever had to work with a screamer? You know, someone who can't speak in a civil tone when either offering direction, correction or just participating in a discussion.

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine is an EC working for a screaming GC. That GC has his good and bad days. My buddy has a decent amount of pride and by all rights probably wouldn't normally put up with the outbursts, but the GC is a pretty steady income in a somewhat slow winter. The funny thing is, the GC commented that one of his prior electricians in years past informed the GC that he was walking off the job, he had no time for it. The GC was relaying the story in part because my buddy called him out on it.

The irony was, the GC was saying that sometimes, he needed a gut check like that to keep his screaming in check - but the reason it was being discussed was because he had just got done screaming (in a bad way about the customer) within earshot of the customer, at the EC. :D

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day, and he asked me (and I forward the question to you): As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer? Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew? Are screamer's crews more or less productive?

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

Speak softly and carry a big stick!

[George Stolz]

Speak softly and carry a big stick!
What - assault the screamer? :D

How much time would someone serve following that advice? :D

[480sparky]

Combine the two. :D

My standard respose to them is "What was that? I couldn't hear you.... there was a baby crying".:wink:

[Mr.Sparkle]

Yeah......If it truly is getting to you tell him to shut up, I am not sure anybody likes those kinds of guys. The vast majority of the time their actions do not have a positive impact on the productivity of the task at hand and it only makes the screamed at employee not able to think straight or care about anything they are doing at work anyhow.

On a side note I witnessed a screamer GC get one punch K.O.'ed once. I could not stand this guys daily doses of personality disorder and it was the most bittersweet thing I think I ever witnessed on a jobsite.........on second thought, don't say anything to the screamer just let him be him, who knows maybe you will get front row seats to a boxing match one day. :D

[brother]

Have you ever had to work with a screamer? You know, someone who can't speak in a civil tone when either offering direction, correction or just participating in a discussion.

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine is an EC working for a screaming GC. That GC has his good and bad days. My buddy has a decent amount of pride and by all rights probably wouldn't normally put up with the outbursts, but the GC is a pretty steady income in a somewhat slow winter. The funny thing is, the GC commented that one of his prior electricians in years past informed the GC that he was walking off the job, he had no time for it. The GC was relaying the story in part because my buddy called him out on it.

The irony was, the GC was saying that sometimes, he needed a gut check like that to keep his screaming in check - but the reason it was being discussed was because he had just got done screaming (in a bad way about the customer) within earshot of the customer, at the EC. :D

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day, and he asked me (and I forward the question to you): As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer? Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew? Are screamer's crews more or less productive?

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

When I was younger, (and a little less knowledgeable) I had put up with screamers, wheather for the money, or just because I didnt know alot. But 'screaming' is really NOT necessary (Unless you in the military or dealing with your kids lol), and a little respect goes along way!! Now being older and wiser, I dont put up with the NONSENSE or consistant disrespect.

[Pierre C Belarge]

The position you are in leaves very little wiggle room, especially in the hard economic times we are all experiencing.

I went through a similar situation when I was an apprentice. I had to tolerate an abusive foreman who loved to show the apprentices who was boss by being verbally abused everyday... for months. I needed the job and tolerated the abuse. It was not easy and made for a miserable day, every day. It was finally over one day when I got moved to another job.

Your decision will be made by your position in regards to your relation with the company owner and how much you need the job.

If you stay, work hard, avoid this guy whenever you can. Answer him only when you have to and avoid conversation with him at all times.

Good luck, these situations are never easy.

P.S.
Do not confront him on any level, you will be playing into his game and he will win.

[Fulthrotl]

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

this is something i had posted in another thread, but as it fits here,
i am recycling the post....

========================================
since i've been reading posts here, it's interesting to watch the different
personality types interact. the one thing life has taught me is that
somebody behaving in a particular way, either gracious or insulting, has
very little to do with me, and much to do with the person acting out their
own beliefs, and fears. and most people's beliefs ARE their fears, simply put.

it's pretty easy to figure out what's really going on with someone by
how they defend themselves, and most people defend themselves by
attacking someone or something, and projecting their fear outward in
a defense. a defense shows what the weakness is, for if it wasn't weak,
what would you need a defense FOR?

and quietly speaking the truth will usually resolve the problem.

case in point... i was doing project management on a large job about
10 years ago, backing up a GF who was buried in a fast track.

the GC project manager was a less than capable guy who made up for
his inadequacies by screaming at the scheduling meetings. no planning
ability, no workable schedule, no management ability, just screaming at
the various subs... a not very bright, do it hard and stupid sort of guy.
there were probably 30 people in the room, male and female, and the
conduct was deplorable.

after two meetings of this, i had enough of his chrome plated silly noise,
and when he stopped shouting long enough to suck some more air, i
very quietly said "behaving like this will not make your penis larger".

sorta cut right to the chase. the room fell apart in laughter, and when
it finally quieted down, he'd start talking again, and someone would
snicker in the back, and the laughter would start all over again.

he finally ended the meeting, and i never heard him speak like that
again..... of course, it may have been because my GF was told to
never bring me to the meeting again....
=================================

randy

[ivsenroute]

Try to speak with the screamer in private and tell him he is not projecting a professional image. Then offer to teach him some electrical work starting with this kit you can buy him:

http://granitegrok.com/pix/jr_electrician_set.jpg

[mdshunk]

With some people, that's all the better they get. Some people can appear to be mad, when they're really not mad at all. I've had people comment to me in the past something like "boy, you really reamed that guy a new one", or something along those lines, and I was confused. I wasn't really particularly upset. I've been around far too many "screamers", so it's just water off a duck's back. It's all the better they ever were, are, or ever will be. Just deal with it or move on.

[quogueelectric]

What - assault the screamer? :D

How much time would someone serve following that advice? :D

It would make you feel better wouldnt it?? You would never say I should a I could a. You would be out in a couple of years look at the money you would save with no rent or mortgage payments for 5 yrs. Right between the eyes edit to say note to post 13.

[triplstep]

Screamers are counting on getting a reaction. If you train them that their tactics don't work with you, then they will learn to lay off. So, the best way to deal with the situation is to: 1. look at them when they start their rant, 2. quit working on the task at hand, 3. put your lips together (so you don't react), and 4. when they are finished, smile and go back to making the boss money. :D

[quogueelectric]

Certain contractors love screamers they promote the bad blood between owners and workers.
In my experience as contractors get richer and bigger it is memememememe and they really think every one is out to screw them when that cant be farther from the truth.
Most men come to work to do a days work and when loudmouth egotistical foremen dont have either the layout the tools or the material to do the job it takes the wind right out of thier sails.
Treat me like a clown I will be a clown .
Treat me like a jman I will do my best to get the job done.
The owner usually never knows this is happening.Or he would correct it.

[bjp_ne_elec]

This style of management went out in the late70's/early 80's in corporate America, and I also saw it disappear (not totally - you still had a few of these knot heads) in the trade. I've worked in both areas.

It's counter productive as it demotivates the emplyoee - proven by many interviews and studies. People like this have usually a control issue and most of the time are very insecure. In corporate America they are not tolerated - but again, you still see a few in construction. If it's the owner - much more difficult to change this type. If he's an employee, then upper management needs to hear complaints.

Good luck!

[peter d]

I find that just laughing at someone, no matter what they say, is usually quite effective. ;)

[hardworkingstiff]

Maybe he's just hard of hearing? Ask him if he needs hearing aids. :smile:

[LHarrington]

Hi everyone,
Having been in this situation as well, I have found work work best for me is to present this person with options. Option one I calmly ask "What can I do to help you have a better day". This usually settles them down to a tolerable level that can be dealt with. Option two which hinges souly on your financial stand point as them if they have any caulk? When they reply "no" suggest they get some so they can mark where they started kissing your A#$. Several post now have suggested that these types of people suffer from some form of short coming or another that they are very aware of it and can't come to terms with it. Each and every night they have to lay down and reflect on how miserable they are and know they have to deal with it everyday. You can't fix it but you can control your exposure which has been suggested as well. No sure who, but it was quoted " the true measure of a person is not measured when they are in triumph, but measure when they face adversities". You being the better person will be your greatest glory and it's priceless. Good luck to you. In closing i think it was this forum that someone has a comment below their name that states " Never argue with and idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". I still have that as my screen saver on the work computer.

LHarrington

[khixxx]

I worked for an arrogant guy, It was a trip just to talk to him. He was always putting down people, pretty much everyone hated him. I was always asked how I could put up with him. Anyway I put up with it for 2.5 years. I final ask him what his problem was with me, that was like poking a tiger. So I called HR (Big mistake) and told them I was having problems dealing with my supervisor and I needed help either advice, training what ever. next thing I know I was in meeting after meeting about how my performance declining. I pulled out my evaluations from years past to compare them with the new one. yes there was a noticeable decline in performance and it just so happened to be the same time I called HR looking for help. well I saved up what it would cost me to live a year without work. I began searching for a new job, requested training classes like crazy and burnt up about 4 weeks of sick leave paid all excusable in a 8 month period. During that 8 months I know I was leaving so I just didn't care if that guy was arrogant I just shrugged it off and I just did not care what he thought. I finally gave my notice and said "I don't wake up everyday to deal with this". I now make double what I was making. I figured it cost the company about $15k when I left now they had to train another guy so that cost time and money.

To finally answer you question of how I handle it. I just do not care. I know my skills, I know I am financially fit, and I know there are to many jobs out there to deal with crap. C Ya :)

When guys yell and act like their hair is on fire then look at me and know I just do not care what they think, they back off.

Best of luck

[360Youth]

Unfortuneately I have been on both sides of the fence on this one. I have never been a "screamer" thankfully, but in years past I have been trigger happy to vent my frustration. It has gotten way better (although my boss made the comment a few weeks ago that I can be a little crass in my responses) simply because it just isn't worth it. And I have found that responding or reacting back at someone just isn't worth it either. But I still have my moments. :roll:

As far as how would I deal with employee/employer situation (GCs fall under the employer). Either case it would greatly depend on if I thought there were underlying issues or they were just being an ignorant pain. In no case would I allow an employee to act that way in the field. If there was enough work away from customer contact that things could be worked out, than so be it, if not, they would need to correct it quickly or move on. If it was an employer or GC it would really depend on the level and consistency of the abuse vs. how bad I needed the work.

[prh1700]

I have worked for both screamers and non-sceamers and in my experience, the non-sceamer definetly got more production, as they were respected. Reprimands were taken as a constructive criticism learning tool, which in turn, motivated the employee to a higher level. If it didn't corrective action was taken. It just seems to me that the boss that has the respect of his men gets the job done faster and better.

[electricguy61]

In 30+ years in the trade, I've learned that it never pays to take a cussing or someone screaming at you.

Don't say a word, just walk away.

Usually, once they learn you won't take it, they won't do it to you anymore.

[mattsilkwood]

ive found that most of these guys will cow down like a puppy if you buck up to them. i dont care who the guy is you dont have to put up with that.

[mattsilkwood]

you can always "accidentaly" drop your hammer.8-)

[electricguy61]

In 30+ years in the trade, I've learned that it never pays to take a cussing or someone screaming at you.

Don't say a word, just walk away.

Usually, once they learn you won't take it, they won't do it to you anymore.

I should have added that this applies to GC's, owners, foremen, customers, everyone.

[j_erickson]

I wouldn't tolerate being screamed at. Period. After he screams, I'd say something like "if you are done screaming, now we can talk about bla, bla, bla.." I don't know exactly how I'd react. But I know I wouldn't tolerate it.

[wbalsam1]

ive found that most of these guys will cow down like a puppy if you buck up to them. i dont care who the guy is you dont have to put up with that.

You're absolutely right. I was on a job once where the guy was screaming and carrying on like you wouldn't believe. I said right to him in front of everybody "So, you quit growing up around, what, eight or nine?" He retaliated with some bullying and got his butt kicked right in front of his men. I thought for sure I'd get fired, but the boss said "Good job. He's been bucking for that for quite some time." I told him I came there to work not babysit an adult child. Never had any more problem with the guy.

[charlie b]

As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer?
I would not hire one. I would fire one, if the behavior continues after I had taken appropriate action to correct the behavior.
Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew?
No. Not that I have any experience with managing a construction crew. I just don’t believe in screaming.
Are screamer's crews more or less productive?
Less, I should think. If I had to spend time figuring out what I needed to do to avoid being screamed at by my boss, I would have been wasting time that were better spent working.
Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?
I think not. If you have a crew that will only react to that type of motivation, then you have missed out on a chance to get a good crew.
Any helpful hints for the screamees?
Do not tolerate it, not even once, not for a moment.

How you bring the “no screaming” message to the boss will depend greatly on the nature of the boss’s personality. Some of the suggestions I read above were good possibilities. Here are two others, two that are quite opposite approaches from each other.

Possible approach #1:
As soon as the screaming starts, interrupt it. Stand up, walk over, stand right in front of the screamer, and say, right into his face, quietly and calmly, “Do not ever speak in a loud tone again, unless the room is on fire. I will not tolerate being screamed at.”

Possible approach #2:
Yell back (sort of). But do not say anything in response to whatever he was saying. Instead, yell something completely surprising. For example, once again you walk over to the screamer, but this time you scream into his face, “GOOD MORNING. ISN’T IT A LOVELY DAY? I HOPE YOU ARE WELL. WOULD YOU LIKE A CUP OF COFFEE?” Then you say, quietly and calmly, “Do not ever speak in a loud tone again, unless the room is on fire. I will not tolerate being screamed at.”

[360Youth]

After he screams, I'd say something like "if you are done screaming, now we can talk about bla, bla, bla.."

That is a favorite of mine. :smile:

[growler]

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

A crew shouldn't need to be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action. That's what a pay check is for. If the crew isn't woke up and spurred into action when it's work time it's time to get a new crew.

The best way to get a crew motivated is to set down rules of when the work day starts and what you expect everyone to be doing when the day starts. If they are not working you put a few on the road and the rest will be motivated. 90 percent of the crew will show up on time and start to work on time if you just get rid of the slackers.

Never treat men like children, treat them like adults and let them know what's expected of them and things work much better.

[satcom]

A crew shouldn't need to be "screamed at" first thing in the morning

Never treat men like children, treat them like adults and let them know what's expected of them and things work much better.

I agree screaming is a child like activity.

.

[cowboyjwc]

The problem with me giving advice on this one is that I usually don't follow it myself.

I agree that you should probably say nothing and just let it go, but awhile back I was on a job and the super used to complain about every little correction like it was going to set him back a week, even though he was very seldom ready when I got there and never had the EC on site for his inspections. One day he cut loose, again, and I simply said "we're done" and turned and headed to my truck. Of course he followed me and continued on with things like "washed up contractor" "power trip" "incompetent", you know, the normal. Finally I turned around and just cut loose. "If you've got a problem with me then take your a** down to the office and tell who ever you think will listen to your whinny, crybaby story, tell them how incompetent you think I am and maybe you can get them sign off all of the code violations that you have and then I'll call your boss and tell him how incompetent I think you are and we can see who get's fired first."

His eyes got big and he just looked at me and asked "whoa, what was that all about?" I just asked "how's it feel?"

He's probably done 50 jobs in town since then and we have never had a problem since and actually get along very well.

I don't necesseraly recommend this approach. If he had actually gone down to the office I may have really been in for it. Luckly my reputation as being very level headed and easy going usually gets me off with, "he was probably just having a bad day." Though you usually have to push me pretty hard to get me to blow. I will say that in 20 years here I have only gone off 3 or 4 times.:smile:

[tonyou812]

My first boss was a screamer. For about a year I put up with it. He was one nasty SOB and nothing could ever make him happy.One day he was really ripping into me and I really felt that it was unjustified so I told him to keep his lousy $10Hr job.But I do have to say, because of him being so tough I feel that As an apprentice i got better quicker. I didnt want to mess up and have to listen to him. And I vividly remember him laughing once when I told him I wanted to go into buisness for myself. Now I love it when I see him at the supply house and that dumb look on his face.

But personally there is nothing to be gained by screaming at anyone. And you only get yourself worked up when you can just simply use your normal voice.

[Luketrician]

I find that just laughing at someone, no matter what they say, is usually quite effective. ;)


Haha..yeah and having thick skin really helps too.;)

[Mike Lang]

My first boss was a screamer and I've learned that they do that to cover up for a lack of knowledge or worth. Or at least in my experience that was the case. All I can tell you is to try and avoid him as best as possible and if that's not an option be %100 up on your work so you have something to throw back at him and shut him up.

[PCN]

In the 90's I worked for a company that had 5 foreman. One of them was biggest hot head screamer I'd ever seen. Very few people wanted to be sent to his jobs because of it.
The apprentices didn't even dare to ask him a question for fear of getting yelled at for asking a "stupid question". I saw a lot of lost production time because of his attitude.
Most of the other foreman were good guy's that had way of getting the crew to want to hustle and work smart, not in fear.

When ever I've had to deal with it I've found if you respond in a calm,cool manner and not stoop to their childish level it will usually make them feel stupid and tone it down.

( I must confess I did YELL at a helper once for trying to cut 3/8" threaded rod with my ratcheting cutters :-?)

[khixxx]

I agree that you should probably say nothing and just let it go, but awhile back I was on a job and the super used to complain about every little correction like it was going to set him back a week, even though he was very seldom ready when I got there and never had the EC on site for his inspections. One day he cut loose, again, and I simply said "we're done" and turned and headed to my truck. Of course he followed me and continued on with things like "washed up contractor" "power trip" "incompetent", you know, the normal. Finally I turned around and just cut loose. "If you've got a problem with me then take your a** down to the office and tell who ever you think will listen to your whinny, crybaby story, tell them how incompetent you think I am and maybe you can get them sign off all of the code violations that you have and then I'll call your boss and tell him how incompetent I think you are and we can see who get's fired first."

His eyes got big and he just looked at me and asked "whoa, what was that all about?" I just asked "how's it feel?"

When you yelled back at this guy, did you have your shirt off and a 3/4" piece of rigid in your hand :)

[ohm]

I was wiring a new house for a guy who would scream at his best buddy (GC) all day long. One day he lit into me, I let him finnish, tol him he just did something no one had done in forty years and it would be his last attempt. The next time I was gone.

Never happened again. His buddy drug up.

[brian john]

I have dealt with several screamers over the years, I tell them I am an adult I think they are an adult can we please handle this like ADULTS, children scream and adults try to work things out 99.9%, this works.

[360Youth]

( I must confess I did YELL at a helper once for trying to cut 3/8" threaded rod with my ratcheting cutters :-?)


What's his name. I want to yell at him, too. :D

[cowboyjwc]

When you yelled back at this guy, did you have your shirt off and a 3/4" piece of rigid in your hand :)

No.:D But when I was still wearing the bags I did have a guy go off on me one time for no reason (semi long story) and he was a big guy too, I probably weighed all of about 150 pounds at the time. He hollered and threatened to kick my butt for a few minutes until he looked down and saw that I had a knife in my hand, after he asked me what I was going to do with it and I told him, he got real quiet and just walked away and I never had any trouble with him again.

The guys that are like that are usually like that because everyone lets them be, kind of like the bully at school, once he get's punched in the nose, he usually backs down.

[220/221]

The way to deal with ANY issue, including verbal abuse, is head on.

Not confrontational head on but directly, honestly and privately.

Do it when it happens. If there are others around, step up and ask him to come outside for a minute. Use your marriage counselling/therapy training to express how you feel when he screams at you then set new boundries by letting him know that his behavior is unacceptable and unproductive.

Basically, talk to him privately. man to man. No shouting or judgement, just honesty. Nobody wants to be a dick. Some people are just more prone to it than others.

[mxslick]

Possible approach #2:
Yell back (sort of). But do not say anything in response to whatever he was saying. Instead, yell something completely surprising. For example, once again you walk over to the screamer, but this time you scream into his face, “GOOD MORNING. ISN’T IT A LOVELY DAY? I HOPE YOU ARE WELL. WOULD YOU LIKE A CUP OF COFFEE?” Then you say, quietly and calmly, “Do not ever speak in a loud tone again, unless the room is on fire. I will not tolerate being screamed at.”


I worked at a job with a screamer for a boss. I was lucky to know about him in advance (my friend referred me to the job) so I was prepared.

I spent the majority of that year pretty much laughing at or ignoring him when he went on his rants.

About six months in, he yelled directly at me for something I had made a mistake on, I let him rant then chuckled and told him that "Wow, it took six months for you to yell at me, I was beginning to feel left out. " Took the wind right out of his sails. We got along great after that.

A few months later, I needed a programmer tool that I KNEW he had in his office. He sent me on a wild goose chase all over the warehouse looking for it (because he didn't feel like opening his office for me). Well, after wasting a full hour, I got on to another activity, and after he asked if I found the programmer tool yet, I walked past him shouting and using some rather colorful language, told him no and that I didn't care what happened and what he could do with that tool. :) I went back to my work area biting the inside of my mouth to keep from laughing out loud. Five minutes later my boss brought the tool to me with a sheepish expression. I then thanked him calmly. :)

That was a fun job to work at.

Moral is, what worked for me was standing up to him and using humor to diffuse his rants. And when he was being stubborn, a taste of his own tactics got me what I wanted.

[tonyou812]

Yea its so funny now that Ive been on my own for a little over a year now. When my buddies call me to complain about their bosses I feel like laughing sometimes. They dont know how good they have it.

[ce2two]

Just one thing RESPECT is EARNED? I grew up in a violent family , so angry ,crazy people don't bother me , I will flat out laugh in there face ...I never have a bad day , life is tooo short to have a bad day ,I'm sorry ...Never back down , or show your weak...Enjoy life ..........

[growler]

Yea its so funny now that Ive been on my own for a little over a year now. When my buddies call me to complain about their bosses I feel like laughing sometimes. They don't know how good they have it.

If you really felt that way you would be out looking for a job. Being either self employed or running your own business has a few disadvantages but it's still better than working for someone else.

[LarryFine]

If you really felt that way you would be out looking for a job. Being either self employed or running your own business has a few disadvantages but it's still better than working for someone else.
Methinks you missed that he already is self-employed.

Mayhaps you meant the complainers would be looking.

[growler]

Methinks you missed that he already is self-employed.

I'm aware that Tony is self employed. I just think that when he made the transition from employee to boss he forgot what it's like to be the employee. Many people make this mistake and just assume that others should be happy as employees. Most people are not happy as employees they just don't have the drive to go out on their own. About 75 percent of the people in this country hate their jobs.

[bikeindy]

The position you are in leaves very little wiggle room, especially in the hard economic times we are all experiencing.



We are not all experiencing hard economic times nor will we all be experiencing hard economic times. And it is NO reason to put up with some loud mouth who probably yells at guys because of his own ignorance. I vote for the shovel to the head and let me know how it turns out I always wanted to use that approach.

[Cow]

Hmm, I read the title to this thread and immediately thought of that Ron White "bit" on screamers...:D

[jeremysterling]

The owner/EC preparing me for the new job, tells me the guy Paul running the job is his pusher. Says j-men have come to him, quitting, whining, "Paul doesn't talk to me like man." Owner says, "This is construction, this is where men work, don't forget it." That was actually a fun job!

[wawireguy]

There's one thing.. I ALWAYS regret taking grief from any lead because of wanting the job. Later I feel like I let myself down for taking someones abuse and wish I'd told them off. Sometimes these people will only respect you if you dish it right back. Other times you won't be working for them but at least your pride is intact.

[JJWalecka]

Have you ever had to work with a screamer? You know, someone who can't speak in a civil tone when either offering direction, correction or just participating in a discussion.

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine is an EC working for a screaming GC. That GC has his good and bad days. My buddy has a decent amount of pride and by all rights probably wouldn't normally put up with the outbursts, but the GC is a pretty steady income in a somewhat slow winter. The funny thing is, the GC commented that one of his prior electricians in years past informed the GC that he was walking off the job, he had no time for it. The GC was relaying the story in part because my buddy called him out on it.

The irony was, the GC was saying that sometimes, he needed a gut check like that to keep his screaming in check - but the reason it was being discussed was because he had just got done screaming (in a bad way about the customer) within earshot of the customer, at the EC. :D

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day, and he asked me (and I forward the question to you): As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer? Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew? Are screamer's crews more or less productive?

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

George

Life is what you make of it. You can't change the world, you can only change yourself.
Don't lose your cool. Be the bigger person. Don't let it get to you. Remember you never know what happens behind closed doors. Sometimes people bring things from there personal life to work.

Best of luck.


JJ

[Karl H]

My method is, 1. I make sure I'm right,state the facts and only
argue the facts.Emotion and the Facts never mix.
2. If I'm wrong,I admit it. If that's not good enough I do my
best not to laugh when the screaming begins. I cannot
look at a grown man screaming like a child and not laugh.
I don't care who it is.

[LarryFine]

The owner/EC preparing me for the new job, tells me the guy Paul running the job is his pusher.Wow! For a moment, I thought . . . 8-)

[tonyou812]

I like to use pure logic when someone gets angry. And I will repeat what they say to me so they can understand how silly they sound. I dont like dealing with screamers and I will nip it in the butt. Unless the project is worth a lot of money.

[George Stolz]

I appreciate all the replies - good food for thought here.

When I was hired on, the owner warned that there were some less-than-cheerful foremen working for him, I was forewarned. My attitude always has been that they were there first, so I have very little place to be dictating to anyone how they run their jobs. My motto is the same as the slumlord's proverb: If you don't like the conditions here, move. ;)

In the big picture, it's a good company, so I can deal with the rowdy ones as they come up. The conversation has helped with that. :cool:

Edit to add: Funny thing is, the fellow that brought this to mind for me actually seems to like me more than some on the job - I really feel bad for those guys. :D

[iaov]

Unless there is an imediate threat to life I see no reason for anyone to be screaming, and anyone who is screaming without an imediate threat to life being present, is IMO mentally ill. Unless this mentaly ill person is armed better than I am, I find them amusing. The first symptom of all mental illness is self importance. The screamer is someone who takes himself VERY seriously. He is also very unhappy. They say that misery loves company. This is not true. Misery Demands company. I do not take myself seriously and therefor can not take anyone else seriously either. I also will not let the actions of someone I know to be mentaly ill dictate how I will act. Someone who will not recognize your importance and will not share your misery is not much fun to scream at.This person may hate me forever, but they will find someone else to scream at.

[LarryFine]

I ALWAYS regret taking grief from any lead because of wanting the job.Language, dude. :roll:

[iaov]

I think its time for you to be censored again Larry!:D

[George Stolz]

Larry, you must read slow. I edited that before I posted! :D

[hardworkingstiff]

The guys that are like that are usually like that because everyone lets them be, kind of like the bully at school, once he get's punched in the nose, he usually backs down.

It gets interesting when no one backs down.

[cowboyjwc]

It gets interesting when no one backs down.

That's true and you do have to be ready for that possibility.

My son just got suspended for 5 days for fighting because some kid who didn't like him, punched my son in the face after my son told him what a punk he was, my son then proceeded to put this kids head into a tree.

When we asked him if it was over with this kid, my son said he wasn't sure, he thinks the kids pride is hurt because he got his butt whooped in front of all of his friends. I then told him, your mom's not going to like this, but if he wants to fight again you make sure that when you're done that he never wants to fight you agian. My wife just looked at me and said, "that's what I think too."

[hardworkingstiff]

my wife just looked at me and said, "that's what i think too."


I love your wife !!

[electricdave]

maybe you should quit

[JJWalecka]

maybe you should quit

I disagree Try not to let it get to you Never give up.

JJ

[hardworkingstiff]

I disagree Try not to let it get to you Never give up.

JJ

Let's see, what's that old saying???...... Oh yea,

"Winners never quit and quitters never win."


And then there's "figures lie and liers figure".

And, and , and

[LarryFine]

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/gq_004JasonStage.jpg

"Never give up! Never surrender!"

[cowboyjwc]

I love your wife !!

To tell you the truth I was a little surprised by her answer.:D But we've always taught our kids to stand up for themselfs.

[jnsane84]

Screaming is a useless tool as it usually tends to be ignored by people who have a decent level of intellect. Screaming is a form of communication used by individuals who cannot obtain respect by their own merit and feel that screaming will surely solve their problem but in all actuality they are indeed a non-effective leader.*

*The ideas expressed above are the sole opinion of the poster are in no way a direct reflection of the forum or its participants. My name is Johnny Outlaw and I approve this message.

[Besoeker]

There is an old Chinese proverb:
"He who strikes the first blow admits that he has lost the argument."
I think the same concept might be applicable to resorting to screaming in the workplace.

[jnsane84]

Another saying that I like that I believe directly addresses Screamers would be---"an empty can rattles the most."

[MA_Electrician1]

Ill deal with the person maybe once or twice. Then tell them to be a professional and depending on their status, state this is a warning. If they run the job or own the company i will quit. Been there done that.

[jrannis]

Have you ever had to work with a screamer? You know, someone who can't speak in a civil tone when either offering direction, correction or just participating in a discussion.

Personally, I am working under a screamer, and could use some tips on how to maintain a cool head without cracking his head open with a shovel. I'd like to think I can adapt to just about anybody, but wouldn't mind hearing a few tips.

Coincidentally, a friend of mine is an EC working for a screaming GC. That GC has his good and bad days. My buddy has a decent amount of pride and by all rights probably wouldn't normally put up with the outbursts, but the GC is a pretty steady income in a somewhat slow winter. The funny thing is, the GC commented that one of his prior electricians in years past informed the GC that he was walking off the job, he had no time for it. The GC was relaying the story in part because my buddy called him out on it.

The irony was, the GC was saying that sometimes, he needed a gut check like that to keep his screaming in check - but the reason it was being discussed was because he had just got done screaming (in a bad way about the customer) within earshot of the customer, at the EC. :D

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day, and he asked me (and I forward the question to you): As an employer, would you hire/fire an employee despite/because they are a screamer? Do you consider screaming to be an effective management tool over a construction crew? Are screamer's crews more or less productive?

Should a crew be "screamed at" first thing in the morning to get them woke up and spurred into action?

Any helpful hints for the screamees? :)

I would ask you to carefully read the entire thread on practical jokes. You might get some ideas.
You might find that Mr. Bully can't take a joke very well and will crumble.

[George Stolz]

I'm compelled to revive this with the recent odd turn of events.

There is an apprentice working on the job the foreman simply can't stand. From what I can tell, it's got something to do with pheromones because the apprentice has always been productive and upbeat about work in the past. There have been two instances where his work have come into question that I can recall - one was working for this same foreman in the past, and the other was working for the other morale crusher a long while back. If you give him specific direction, let him have his head, he'll outperform most, IMO.

The other day, I was walking to the building (rough-in), coffee cup and tools in hand, and the apprentice was about five steps ahead of me. The boss screamed across the parking lot, asking the apprentice what he was doing carrying a closed can of mountain dew into the building.

"What's the problem with me having a drink?"
"You're too [expletive] slow anyway, I don't need you standing around drinking a [expletive] soda!!!"

I watched all this, took a sip from my coffee and continued into the building. :-?

So, after a few days of this going on, the boss was going to kick the apprentice off the job. By some bizarre coincidence ( ;) ), the apprentice was also going to head in to the shop and ask for reassignment. I told both of them they should do what they were planning. Less drama on a jobsite is a happy jobsite, all things considered.

Just as things were looking like they were all going to work themselves out, a lead apprentice spoke up in defense of the screamee, telling the boss that perhaps he should lighten up and maybe the screamee's productivity would increase. They argued for a while, and then the boss came to me, asking for confirmation of his belief that unproductive people should be flogged and fed to lions, or something.

I said I believed his lack of productivity (which I do not believe exists, but would not swear to that) was due to always walking around afraid he was about to be screamed at for events either beyond his control or beyond his responsibilities, and so he couldn't focus on the task at hand. The boss somewhat boisterously replied, "Well, wouldn't you think he would focus on what he was doing so he wouldn't get yelled at?"

I said that the apprentice likely could not disconnect his emotional reaction to the treatment long enough to focus on his work. The boss was unswayed.

The next day - get this - he appointed his lead apprentice (the dissenter) in charge of the next building, as an experiment. The stated purpose of the experiment is to test the two techniques in management, but I believe it will turn out being an occasion to scream at the lead apprentice at every single mistake made by anyone, throughout the building.

Man, am I glad the guy seems to like me. Although, I wouldn't have agreed to run the job under those circumstances, myself. The lead isn't an idiot, but I don't know what he intends to prove, aside from thick skin.

It's getting a little nutty, but entertaining. The phrase "thrown under the bus" has been tossed out there quite a bit lately. :D

[jrannis]

Keep us updated if you have time. Sounds like a good experiment.

[bikeindy]

I still say hit him with the shovel best idea I have heard yet. This guy is a turd and needs to be put out with the trash.

[mdshunk]

I still say hit him with the shovel best idea I have heard yet. This guy is a turd and needs to be put out with the trash.
Funny you typed that. When I was reading George's post above yours, I was starting to think the foreman needs to suffer from a fall down the stairs sometime in the next week or so.

[bikeindy]

Funny you typed that. When I was reading George's post above yours, I was starting to think the foreman needs to suffer from a fall down the stairs sometime in the next week or so.

Marc, the reason I don't have 11,950 posts is because you do all my work, I was trying to do my part to save your finger tips on this one.

[growler]

I was starting to think the foreman needs to suffer from a fall down the stairs sometime in the next week or so.

Either that or the kid will just have to stand up to him. I once threatened to throw a foreman off the roof of a job we were on and he never bothered me again. I'm not saying that it changed his character any but he went off to pick on people that wouldn't throw him off the roof.

Bullies are normally just cowards and the minute someone stands up to them they go off after easier prey.

[Greg Swartz]

...Bullies are normally just cowards and the minute someone stands up to them they go off after easier prey.

The extreme majority of the time, that is true!

We just went to a "Bully Busting workshop" at a friend of mine's Universal Kempo Karate school.

They talked about standing up to the bully, and use words, and to bring everything out in public, so everyone can see...

We went, because my 7 year old son is in danger of becoming a bully... right now, he is at "vigilante" stage! He just got in trouble at school, breaking up a fight.
And my 5 year old... well... after the "fight with older brother" is over, he goes and gets something to beat the 7 year old up with! (and has won...)

The 3 year old hasn't caught on yet... (Thank you, God!)

Bullies!

[~Shado~]

Unless you are 'Enlisted' with Uncle Sam...being degraded, humiliated, etc..by some idiot who likes to yell/scream is totally unacceptable. Even in these tough economic times I would be hard pressed to stay in that enviornment.
'NO MAN'... dictates, determines my life, livelihood, etc...by belittling me! I'm no punk and wont take it....period. Does that mean I'm not a team player? I dont think so.

Many years ago in South Carolina, I had a GC that was that way...I had only moved there a few months earlier, just been with the company a few weeks. And in he walks...mouth a yapping, pointing fingers at people and whatnot, hair afire, ...then he looks my way and yells "Do you have a problem?" (I guess it was because I was looking at him during all this going on).
I put down my hammer, walked towards him, said "No, I dont have a problem, because, you are going to go back home, put on your BIG girl panties, then come back here and talk to me like a man!" He started in again about how he was the big cheeze, nothing happens around here unless he says so, yadda, yadda, yadda....I raised my hand, said " Hold that thought" turned around, told my guys to bag it up, because we had another job to go to that needed real work to get done. He stood there looking goofy while we packed up and left. Couple hours later my boss came by, (a bit upset), asked what the heck was going on. I filled him in, he asked when we were going back. Told him I wasnt, until the guy grew up, and he could fire me or whatever. Ended up finishing the job, and the GC never gave me any crap from then on.

Everyone's skillset varies, I don't care who you are. Some folks are natural born electricians, others have to simply work to aquire the skills, and others may bust butt just to become perhaps average, unable to achieve the full goal they may be desparatley wanting.
I look to see what the person is doing, if they are really trying, I will work with them. If they are just milking, waiting for clockout time, that's a whole different story.

[quogueelectric]

Immediate confrontation is the bullies enemy and my favorite place in life. It has put me in many situations that could have endangered me but there is nothing wore irritating than a bully they are always cowards. Get in his face and shut him down asap. Pain is temporary and bones heal.

[Jhaney]

Immediate confrontation is the bullies enemy and my favorite place in life. It has put me in many situations that could have endangered me but there is nothing wore irritating than a bully they are always cowards. Get in his face and shut him down asap. Pain is temporary and bones heal.

and chicks dig scars!!!!

[glene77is]

Treat me like a clown I will be a clown .
Treat me like a jman I will do my best to get the job done.


QQ,

Spoken like a real Man, or jMan, which ever you prefer.
With me, it is the owner who does it. Very unpredictable.

I just keep reading my codebook, and looking for good threads around here.
I don't have any trouble with the codebook! or these threads!