Generator Install

[sparky76]

Living and working in an area where a backup generator in a residential application is pretty uncommon, I've never done a complete one in a resi application.

Nevertheless, a customer just purchased an 8KW Guardian by Generac kit that runs on natural gas.

Here it is http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Products/Residential/Guardian/GUARDIAN8kW.aspx

The kit includes a 100A ATS w/ 8 circ load center, WP connection box, fuel line and mounting pad. It will be installed about 50ft from the 200A panel.

Thus begins a new episode of WWYC(What Would You Charge?).

Have at it.

[dezwitinc]

Costs associated with the install:
1) Concrete or precast composite pad (if your jurisdiction does not accept the fiberglass pad)
2) Excavation for conduits
3) Permits
4) Gas company charges
5) Battery for the generator
6) Subfeed breaker for the transfer switch
7) Wind load calcs (if applicable in your area)
8) Moving and setting the generator in place
9) Startup by authorized dealer (optional)
10) Oil change after break-in period
11) Maintenance contract

[hillbilly1]

Unless you are installing it away from the house, there will be no excavation work needed, at least for the electrical. You will need to extend the factory wiring harness, as it is only 30 feet long. Do not use thermostat wire or the like for extending the controls, as two of wires are 240 volt a/c and two are 12 volt D/C.

[Ed Carr]

Sparky 76...a couple of questions please.
1.how far from the house will the gen. be
2.how far from the main panel will the ATS be
3.how far from the ATS to the gen. jbox
4.how far from the gas meter to the gen.
5.is the gas meter large enough to handle btu increase

I've installed alot of these units and these are questions
you need to answer.Also any modification to the factory
harness will void its UL listing.Obviously you are not a dealer
so any problems you may encounter you'll be on your own.
The factory service dept. won't talk to you.

Ed

[mdshunk]

If he promised me a lot more work in the future, I'd do it for a ham sandwich.

[MF Dagger]

If he promised me a lot more work in the future, I'd do it for a ham sandwich.

You really should pay him as he said he had a lot of friends that need stuff done

[hillbilly1]

Sparky 76...
so any problems you may encounter you'll be on your own.
The factory service dept. won't talk to you.

Ed

We were a dealer, and the factory service department was not much help half the time, As you said though gas pressure and volume is a biggie with these units, but being an 8 kw he shouldn't have as much of a problem. Out of the close to 200 of these we installed, if it cranked the first time, we had no problems with it from then on, but if it did not crank the first try, usually there would be a number of problems with the unit, not all fuel related. Kinda weird.

[Kdog76]

mdshunk, you're a funny guy. However, I think you know more then you're letting on.:D

[mdshunk]

mdshunk, you're a funny guy. However, I think you know more then you're letting on.:D
You're right. I also know it's very important to make sure a generator is full of oil before you start it. That's all I have to say about that mistake, er, uh... :wink:

[quogueelectric]

Always make sure that if you have a diesel fuel pump on site that it is on the em ckt of the generator. Ask me how I know.

[hillbilly1]

Just got through last week fixing an engineer screw up, The generator powered lights in a warehouse were on a 200 amp contactor, whose control power came from a non-generator powered circuit. Electrically held on top of that. 120 volt coil and no 120 volt generator power:)

[Podagrower]

Just got through last week fixing an engineer screw up, The generator powered lights in a warehouse were on a 200 amp contactor, whose control power came from a non-generator powered circuit. Electrically held on top of that. 120 volt coil and no 120 volt generator power:)

No problem, just have a helper stand there and hold the contactor closed with a screwdriver. Or if economics prevent that, just jam a toothpick in it.

[bradleyelectric]

I did a tenant space last year that had a generator/ dumpster pad on site. When the GC asked me about what I needed to do to prep for the generator I told him nothing there was no plan or spec for a generator. When he showed me the detail of the pad I told him he was free to pour pads all over the site and call them anything he wanted, there was no engineering for an actual generator but I was willing to look at anything they wanted.

The first thought from the owner was a generac 120/240 12kw and he wanted to know if that would power all the lighting. All lighting was 277. There was an engineer for this project, but noone wanted to talk to anyone but me about the generator and they couldn't answer questions about what they needed/ how they were going to fuel it. Never happened.

[steelersman]

Costs associated with the install:
1) Concrete or precast composite pad (if your jurisdiction does not accept the fiberglass pad)
2) Excavation for conduits
3) Permits
4) Gas company charges
5) Battery for the generator
6) Subfeed breaker for the transfer switch
7) Wind load calcs (if applicable in your area)
8) Moving and setting the generator in place
9) Startup by authorized dealer (optional)
10) Oil change after break-in period
11) Maintenance contract
wow! I would think most of these costs are to be paid by the HO. And most of these tasks would be performed by others IMO. I would have nothing to do with setting it, piping in the gas, starting it up, changing any oil, moving it, maintenance on it or wind calcs (whatever those are).

[480sparky]

wow! I would think most of these costs are to be paid by the HO. And most of these tasks would be performed by others IMO. I would have nothing to do with setting it, piping in the gas, starting it up, changing any oil, moving it, maintenance on it or wind calcs (whatever those are).

Then you're missing out on a lot of revenue! http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/fiufiu.gif

[steelersman]

Then you're missing out on a lot of revenue! http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/fiufiu.gif
and alot of unnecessary headaches I believe also. And I'm not licensed to do gas fitting, and I'm not a concrete guy, or a mover. :)

[iwire]

The last generator job I ran we (The EC I worked for) acted as the GC, the customer wanted a single point of contact. The job was just under $500,000 and we did or subbed out all aspects of the job. From concrete pads, to asphalt and concrete cutting and patching, rigging, start ups, permitting, EPA requirements, HVAC work, etc.

[iwire]

And I'm not licensed to do gas fitting, and I'm not a concrete guy, or a mover. :)

You sub that work out and mark it up. :smile:

[steelersman]

You sub that work out and mark it up. :smile:
I just wanna get in and get out and go do the next job. I don't want all the extra headache work. :)

[480sparky]

You sub that work out and mark it up. :smile:

'Zactly! Partner up with the pros who do that stuff. Make money on their work.

I just wanna get in and get out and go do the next job. I don't want all the extra headache work. :)

So does everyone else. But you gotta work to make money, not just kick back and do the easy stuff.

[steelersman]

'Zactly! Partner up with the pros who do that stuff. Make money on their work.



So does everyone else. But you gotta work to make money, not just kick back and do the easy stuff.
but you just contradicted yourself!

you said "make money on their work"

and then "you gotta work to make money, not just kick back and do the easy stuff."

:)

[480sparky]

but you just contradicted yourself!

you said "make money on their work"

and then "you gotta work to make money, not just kick back and do the easy stuff."

:)

No I didn't. I went the extra mile to provide the customer with a completely turn-key operation, not one ingredient for the cake. I gotta take the time to get a plumber there to run the gas line, lay out the 'crete guy, meet the factory technician for initial start-up......

HO cuts me one check, I send payment to all my subs..... paperwork.

[steelersman]

No I didn't. I went the extra mile to provide the customer with a completely turn-key operation, not one ingredient for the cake. I gotta take the time to get a plumber there to run the gas line, lay out the 'crete guy, meet the factory technician for initial start-up......

HO cuts me one check, I send payment to all my subs..... paperwork.
I don't have the time to be a GC. Not when I'm working full time for someone else.