Drop ceiling responsibility

[ivsenroute]

I was just thinking about this today when I was installing cans in the grid for a new drop ceiling. The grid was in place but no tiles yet as the construction is not complete.

So that I can get out of there quickly, I choose to cut and install the tiles in order to put the trim and bulbs in. The contractor doing the ceiling will then have less to do.

Time for a poll. This is for new construction where the grid is in place, the tiles are available and someone else is to install them.

[cadpoint]

I thought it was called an above-ceiling-inspection! Lights in place, in tile(s), and someone else plays with the remaining tiles...

[BryanMD]

Every project has some variables. But in general... if you want (or are responsible for) the cans to be in the right spot you/your helper will be the one cutting the tiles.

[480sparky]

I assume you're talking recessed lights here, not troffers.

Kind of a no-brainer. I'd rather cut the tiles myself and know some Grid-Gumby isn't going to be tearing my cans out just to install the tiles.

I always coordinate with the ceiling contractor anyway when I'm installing recessed in a grid. I just get the OK from them to open up the packages I need to install them.

Time Saving-Tip: If all the cans are centered in the tile, DO NOT open the package. Measure the first tile in the pack, and use your hole saw to cut the hole. When it goes through that tile, the bit will automatically mark the next tile in the pack. Keep working your way down through all the tiles in the pack, being careful not to disturb the plastic wrapping.

[mdshunk]

I. Cut the tiles. It's the only way things will be right.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Wear a mask that dust is not good for you.

[ivsenroute]

I wonder if this is a union issue?

[macmikeman]

I cut em in myself so it looks good. Mactip of the day- a plain old empty #12 spool is just about a perfect template for Halo H-7 cutouts, and you can look thru the hole in the center of the roll to spot your center mark on the tile.

[cadpoint]

I wonder if this is a union issue?


Not much regionally ... they follow the same rules, No!

[bjp_ne_elec]

I'd definitely always prefer to have the ceiling grid up - everything wide open - and then cut the tiles myself. This way your not popping tiles to make connections between lights, etc.

[bikeindy]

I. Cut the tiles. It's the only way things will be right.

Bingo! I know when it is a drop ceiling and charge accordingly.

[peter d]

I wonder if this is a union issue?

Up here in union strong New England, you bet it is. Any time there are union trades on the job you will not be doing any of their work.

Aside from the union issue, ceiling tile responsibility should be spelled out in the contracts.

[charlietuna]

We always cut the tile while installing our fixtures-less arguements and mistakes !

[quogueelectric]

I cut em in myself so it looks good. Mactip of the day- a plain old empty #12 spool is just about a perfect template for Halo H-7 cutouts, and you can look thru the hole in the center of the roll to spot your center mark on the tile.

Hey nice tip!!............

[russ]

They sell hole saws for recess cans.
It's 50 50 on ceiling guys or electricians cutting the holes on most commercial jobs.

[billdozier]

we also cut the tiles and mac I think you stole my tip

[LarryFine]

I agree; I'd rather make my own holes, especially if it's my layout.

I also agree that I'd rather do this work while the grid is still empty.

I think the HVAC guys feel the same way.

[JohnJ0906]

I've always cut the tiles. Except for where fixtures are, all the rest have to be left out until ceiling inspection.

I also cut them the way Marc does, with a hole saw, one package at a time.

[infinity]

We let the ceiling contractor cut the tiles. He's paid to do it and he doesn't want us doing his work so we don't do his work. Typically he'll install the grid and just put in the cut tiles for the high hats when we ask for them. We'll install the fixtures onto the grid then he'll finish the ceiling.

[Flex]

We usually tell the ceiling guy how many to cut and they pile them up for us. If its only a few I wouldnt mind but its his tile let him cut them.

[Dennis Alwon]

It is easy with a tool such as this. Mine is a bit different but the same idea. Cuts up to a 7" hole.

http://www.goodmart.com/images/prodimages/ideal/35598.jpg

[480sparky]

It is easy with a tool such as this. Mine is a bit different but the same idea. Cuts up to a 7" hole.

http://www.goodmart.com/images/prodimages/ideal/35598.jpg


I prefer the Greenlee carbide grit.

http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/upc/images/35718.JPG

About 3 turns and it's done. Cuts both directions, and lasts forever.

[Dennis Alwon]

This is for new construction where the grid is in place, the tiles are available and someone else is to install them.

I can't imagine having the cans screwed in place and asking the installer to cut the tiles and unscrew the cans. I found it easier to just cut the tiles and be done with it.

[Dennis Alwon]

I prefer the Greenlee carbide grit. Actually mine has a changeable cutting bit. One for plaster, wood, etc.

http://www.mygreenlee.com/products/upc/images/35718.JPG

About 3 turns and it's done. Cuts both directions, and lasts forever.

Yeah but mine catches the dust. It is great when doing a remo job.

[mdshunk]

The carbide grit are the only one's that work more than a couple times in plaster.

Related to tile... if the tile are there, and the holes need cut, I'm not going to let someone's stupid hangup about who rightfully should cut the holes hold up my schedule. If you can't do it now, like I probably already gave you a head's up on, then I'm cutting them. Simple as that. Get over it.

[mdshunk]

Yeah but mine catches the dust. It is great when doing a remo job.
Mine does too, with the addition of Rackateers 'Driller's Dust Bowl'

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/mdshunk/HPIM0579.jpg

[480sparky]

Yeah but mine catches the dust. It is great when doing a remo job.

I cut my ceiling tile over a garbage can using a shopvac to collect the dust.

If I work overhead, I use an old backetball cut in half. It's free.

[growler]

It is easy with a tool such as this. Mine is a bit different but the same idea. Cuts up to a 7" hole.

http://www.goodmart.com/images/prodimages/ideal/35598.jpg

I like that cutter for sheetrock and ceiling tiles but still have to keep the hole saw for metal tiles, wood and other materials.

On most of the jobs that I have ever done you end up cutting your own tiles. Just part of the job.

[Dennis Alwon]

If I work overhead, I use an old backetball cut in half. It's free.


I heard of doing that. BTW what's a backetball? :D

[mdshunk]

I heard of doing that. BTW what's a backetball? :D
Half racketball, half basketball. It's a new game they play in the bean fields where 480's at.

[480sparky]

I heard of doing that. BTW what's a backetball? :D

Latin for basketball. http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/dissolve.gif

Half racketball, half basketball. It's a new game they play in the bean fields where 480's at.
Never been to Iowa, have you? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/Peasant_emotes_by_admx.gif

[Dennis Alwon]

Never been to Iowa, have you? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/Peasant_emotes_by_admx.gif

Hey they both start with "I"... :D

[480sparky]

Hey the both start with "I"... :D

The both? And with I? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/emoticon_test_by_vampire_meme.gif

[Dennis Alwon]

The both? And with I? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/emoticon_test_by_vampire_meme.gif

What's the problem it looks right to me...

[mdshunk]

Never been to Iowa, have you? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/Peasant_emotes_by_admx.gif
Now you're trying to pretend like corn is not a bean.

[iwire]

Lets try to get back on topic.

[tonyou812]

Ive always cut my own tiles. Your liable to get some good ribbing around these parts if you ask a ceiling guy to cut your tiles!

[Karl H]

I cut the tiles for cans,edge-lit exit signs,pendants, etc.
I've got a sched. and deadlines to meet. I like those
recess can saws. But I very rarely install recess cans to justify
buying one.

[480sparky]

I cut the tiles for cans,edge-lit exit signs,pendants, etc.
I've got a sched. and deadlines to meet. I like those
recess can saws. But I very rarely install recess cans to justify
buying one.

Sad part is, they're not all the same size. I have four..... 4-3/8, 6-3/8, 6-5/8 aqnd 6-7/8. But they're well worth the money. I recall a restaurant that had 178 cans in the dining room. Got all the tiles cut in one day.

[iwire]

We let the ceiling contractor cut the tiles. He's paid to do it and he doesn't want us doing his work so we don't do his work. Typically he'll install the grid and just put in the cut tiles for the high hats when we ask for them. We'll install the fixtures onto the grid then he'll finish the ceiling.

On jobs with GCs I handle it just like Rob.

The fact that some feel only they can properly cut a hole in a ceiling tile just reinforces my view that electricians think they are master of everything.

Come on guys, it a hole in tile, I could teach my eight year old to do it.:D

Now that said, obviously there are times where there is no choice and we have to cut the holes.

[mdshunk]

Come on guys, it a hole in tile, I could teach my eight year old to do it.:D
Current labor laws presently forbid the employment of 8 year olds to cut holes in ceiling tile.

[iwire]

Current labor laws presently forbid the employment of 8 year olds to cut holes in ceiling tile.

I don't pay them

[480sparky]

Current labor laws presently forbid the employment of 8 year olds to cut holes in ceiling tile.

Outsource it offshore.;)

[Karl H]

Outsource it offshore.;)

Oh great now all the holes in ceiling tiles are gonna say Made in China.

[iwire]

We were doing a large office, I needed more then 500 tiles cut for speakers, on that job the carpenters where responsible for the cuts, they kept stalling.

The boss told me to grab a helper, start cutting and to do it in a highly visible area. It was not long before the carpenters shop steward was very upset and cried to the GC. We stopped cutting and I had my tiles the next day.8-)

[480sparky]

Oh great now all the holes in ceiling tiles are gonna say Made in China.

So, would that make them counterfeit holes? http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/emoticon-0140-rofl.gif

[220/221]

If I can get someone else to cut them, I'm going to. Most often it would be me cutting the tiles.

Do recessed cans have to be supprted by slack wires now or is it just lay ins?

Is there a weight limit?

[infinity]

We were doing a large office, I needed more then 500 tiles cut for speakers, on that job the carpenters where responsible for the cuts, they kept stalling.

The boss told me to grab a helper, start cutting and to do it in a highly visible area. It was not long before the carpenters shop steward was very upset and cried to the GC. We stopped cutting and I had my tiles the next day.8-)


I'm sure that Bob's boss didn't include cutting 500 holes in ceiling tiles as part of his bid. Jurisdictional issues aside a few holes we'll cut, but to cut every hole on the job, the ceiling carpenter is getting paid to do that so let him.

[ivsenroute]

Looks like 2 out of 3 electricians cut their own holes. My guess the difference is commercial vs residential and union vs non-union.

[480sparky]

Looks like 2 out of 3 electricians cut their own holes. My guess the difference is commercial vs residential and union vs non-union.

What about Git-er-done v. too lazy?

[iwire]

What about Git-er-done v. too lazy?

Whoa! how about only doing the work that your paid to do?:mad:

As I said, if circumstances demand it we will cut but if another sub got paid to do it and we did not get paid to do it ....... who should do it?

[iwire]

Looks like 2 out of 3 electricians cut their own holes. My guess the difference is commercial vs residential and union vs non-union.

I think that is close but not the whole story

I am a merit shop commercial electrician, if we go to a location to add some items of course we will cut holes. But in new construction often another trade has been paid to do the cuts.

[tonyou812]

If never been on a job big or small where the carpenters cut the "Holes" for me. Maybe its a Union thing. But with me its not a matter of pride just what is the norm around here. But then again Ive never worked on a massive project like a whole building or something. But many times the ceiling guys arent even on the job when we rough in the lights. How do you get a ceiling inspection without the tile in?

[iwire]

How do you get a ceiling inspection without the tile in?

The grid and all the cut tiles go in for the edges, sprinkler heads, fixtures, boxes, etc. Then we install the fixtures, then inspection, then the ceiling can be closed up.

This pattern is the same on union or non union jobs, we work both.

[480sparky]

The grid and all the cut tiles go in for the edges, sprinkler heads, fixtures, boxes, etc. Then we install the fixtures, then inspection, then the ceiling can be closed up.

This pattern is the same on union or non union jobs, we work both.

Never goes that way here. All the tiles get installed in one fell swoop. With or without can lights.

[mattsilkwood]

i dont know that ive ever been on a job where someone else has cut the tiles.

[iwire]

Never goes that way here. All the tiles get installed in one fell swoop. With or without can lights.

Well that is really to bad for you.:D

[quogueelectric]

Whoa! how about only doing the work that your paid to do?:mad:

As I said, if circumstances demand it we will cut but if another sub got paid to do it and we did not get paid to do it ....... who should do it?

I cant believe we agree completely in the new year. The carpenters are always trying to push any work they can on you. I NEVER do any work I am not getting paid for.

[480sparky]

Well that is really to bad for you.:D

That's why I cut 'em.

And yes, it's in my bid. If the grid gumbys want to cut them for me, fine with me.... more money in my pocket. But they never have.

[iwire]

That's why I cut 'em.

And yes, it's in my bid. If the grid gumbys want to cut them for me, fine with me.... more money in my pocket. But they never have.


Like I said, that stinks for you.:D

[~Shado~]

Mine does too, with the addition of Rackateers 'Driller's Dust Bowl'

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/mdshunk/HPIM0579.jpg

How does that one work? Does the bowl flex? Or is it mounted on a spring so the blade will contact the surface?

Thanx

[480sparky]

Like I said, that stinks for you.:D

Yep. it sure stinks doing work and getting paid for it. ;) 'Specially when it gets done on time and correctly the first time.

[mdshunk]

Yeah, it flexes. It's just some kind of rubber.

[iwire]

Yep. it sure stinks doing work and getting paid for it. ;) .

It stinks paying electricians wages for menial tasks.

'Specially when it gets done on time and correctly the first time

Yeah it's freaking rocket science, only an electrician can do it.:D

If a job is contrated to another sub and they are late it is not our issue, we might even say now we need an extra for Saturday catch up time.8-)