Driving ground rods, power vs sledge

[Mule]

Ok, Ive never driven a ground rod with a rotary hammer....So, how long does it take in average soil? vs a sledge......Im shopping for hammer drills....thanks Mule

[Dennis Alwon]

The rotary hammer save a little time but more importantly it save me the hard work. At almost 58 I find it difficult to drive the rods. The rotary hammer makes life easy. If that was all I needed the rotary for I wouldn't have bought it but I use it often for other tasks.

[walkerj]

I really feel for you guys:D

[AV ELECTRIC]

I bought a cheap jack hammer ,takes about a minute to drive the rod

[480sparky]

I've never spent more than 30 seconds, regardless of dirt, soil, frost, rocks, water pipes, etc.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti1.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti4.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti3.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti2.jpg

Hilti TE905AVR (http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_product.jsp?OID=13774&CATE_OID=-12023).

[iaov]

Whats the model number on that beast Ken?

[480sparky]

Whats the model number on that beast Ken?

Link is at bottom. TE905.

Here' (http://www.us.hilti.com/data/techlib/docs/design-center-resources/drilling%20and%20demolition/complete-safetyfirst-te-905-rod-driver.pdf)s how it works.

[iaov]

Thanx Ken. That looks like a realy slick system. Will that driver work with another rotary tool like a Bosch Bull Dog?

[480sparky]

Thanx Ken. That looks like a realy slick system. Will that driver work with another rotary tool like a Bosch Bull Dog?

No. The bits for it are proprietary. They only work on the 805 and 905.

[iaov]

I guess an 805 or a 905 goes on my wish list then. Thanx for the info!:smile:

[electricmanscott]

So, how long does it take in average soil?

Still waiting to find some average soil. ;)

I use the binford 3000 automatic rock detecting ground rods. Haven't missed a rock yet! :grin:

[480sparky]

I guess an 805 or a 905 goes on my wish list then. Thanx for the info!:smile:

The ground rod kits are hard to find. i got lucky and bought the whole kit from a lineman neighbor who didn't need his any more. He had only used it 2 or 3 times, so it was next to new.

Now I'm gonna make you ill.... I paid him $600 for it all.

[LarryFine]

So, how long does it take in average soil?
Typically 30 to 45 seconds. About 2 minutes was the longest. I have a Bosch SDS-Max rotary hammer. I'm not sure of the model number.

I have a driver bit for 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" rods. I had a 1/2" galvanized rod get stuck in the driver once, but I got it out. Copper fits great.

It's also great for drilling and boring 3/4""-and-up holes in masonry and concrete. Core bits (basically percussion carbide holesaws) are the greatest.

Imagine making an all-but-polished 4" hole through a 1'-thick concrete or brick wall, or through a concrete floor.

[BLACK4TRUCK]

I have always used a hammer drill to drive ground rods without the rod driver.. they were not always around. Can you harm your hammer drill doing that?? My Bosch still works great, BUT I could of been lucky :grin:

[Fulthrotl]

I've never spent more than 30 seconds, regardless of dirt, soil, frost, rocks, water pipes, etc.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti1.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Tools/Hilti2.jpg

Hilti TE905AVR (http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_product.jsp?OID=13774&CATE_OID=-12023).

these two are what's in my toolbox. i never got the spiffy doodle
lever operated ground rod grippie thingie.

however, i do have a number of fun toys for it... clay spade, concrete
bushing hammer, 6x6 soil tamper, and a number of chisels.

they make a spring steel scraper for taking up vinyl flooring i wished i had
today... but i promised myself never to do anything like this again, so
i'll never need it.... :D

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/FulThrotl/ick.jpg

i got mine used off of ebay for $380, and it's got some miles, but quite
serviceable..... altho not as shiny and purty as yours is....

a word of warning to prospective purchasers... this tool takes only hilti
tools, and hilti, judging by the pricing, makes them out of pure
unobtanium or something. a clay spade for any generic jackhammer, $75.

for this fine example of german pricing, $275.

you have been warned. even at that, it's an excellent tool. it'll drive a
8' ground rod in 30 seconds or so, just like the man says.... if you need
to drive it thru a 12" concrete fire main, allow another 15 seconds.

[480sparky]

.....
however, i do have a number of fun toys for it... clay spade, concrete
bushing hammer, 6x6 soil tamper, and a number of chisels.

they make a spring steel scraper for taking up vinyl flooring i wished i had
today... but i promised myself never to do anything like this again, so
i'll never need it.... :D

.......

I loaned mine to a builder one time to pull up a floor just like your pix. He bought the scraper, and gave it to me when he was done. I think I came out ahead on that deal!

I've got the clay spade and several chisels, some of which have never been used. Got a good deal on them on fleabay, and couldn't pass 'em up.

[frenchelectrican]

I think I can able snag one in European area but the #1 issue is the voltage unless I can able get a 120v verison of it and bring it back to state and use it.


Yeah I did have it here in France I borrowed from one of the electrician and dangbat it work better than I expected to drive a 4 meter rod in and it took me 3 min flat and all done with it.

Merci,Marc

Not sure price is about $1000 Euro. I can able dig it up for excat price

[Fulthrotl]

I loaned mine to a builder one time to pull up a floor just like your pix. He bought the scraper, and gave it to me when he was done. I think I came out ahead on that deal!


thanks. rub it in. i think i hate you now.;)

of course, i could get over it and become your newest best friend if you
lent it to me if i ever have to do this again......:D

however, it wasn't all bad... jill was grumbling about having to build excel
spreadsheets for work, so i had her come in and scrape a couple 4" passes.
she did it for 5 minutes, announced "this sucks. you're crazy to do this",
and went back to her spreadsheets, happy as a clam to be doing them
instead of the floor.


randy

[masterinbama]

You all have to remember 480sparky is in central Iowa. I have more rocks in my front flower bed than he will find in a 40 acre field. They don't call it Limestone County Alabama for nothing.

[Kdog76]

I've been on both sides of the equation. Summit County, CO you couldn't really go more then 3-4" in some spots w/o hitting BIG ROCKS. Mostly driven in by hand with a sledge. Now, here in WI I've used the Dewalt corded rotary hammer w/ the driver bit. There too, it can still hang up on rocks & such, but will usually break on thru after a while. Had one with a rock shelf going from about 4' down. Inspector told us there's a big rock shelf in that area, that no one could pound an 8' rod in that part of the county...
We tried anyway, we failed...

[SmithBuilt]

Don't scimp on the hammerdrill bigger is better. I have the biggest Dewalt and sometimes it's not enough. Of course we do have plenty of rocks and extremely hard ground.


When the hammerdrill won't do it I use an extra heavy homemade T-post driver.

[Greg Swartz]

...however, it wasn't all bad... jill was grumbling about having to build excel
spreadsheets for work, so i had her come in and scrape a couple 4" passes.
she did it for 5 minutes, announced "this sucks. you're crazy to do this",
and went back to her spreadsheets, happy as a clam to be doing them
instead of the floor.
randy
Randy,
You really ARE a wise man.

Show ME the way of the Force, Obi Wan!
Greg

[Greg Swartz]

Typically 30 to 45 seconds. About 2 minutes was the longest. I have a Bosch SDS-Max rotary hammer. I'm not sure of the model number.

I have a driver bit for 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" rods. I had a 1/2" galvanized rod get stuck in the driver once, but I got it out. Copper fits great.

It's also great for drilling and boring 3/4""-and-up holes in masonry and concrete. Core bits (basically percussion carbide holesaws) are the greatest.

Imagine making an all-but-polished 4" hole through a 1'-thick concrete or brick wall, or through a concrete floor.

I have a Bosch SDS-Max as well. Fleabay had a smoking deal for a new one... since the last one grew legs!
I try to get ones that have at least 1 9/16" rating, and up to a 4" dry core rating as well.
Bosch makes good hammer drills... not as good as Hilti, but I'd think they are #2.

Larry,
what is the model of the attachment you have. I want one!

[Greg Swartz]

I really feel for you guys:D

I don't! I was young once too!
In fact, we didn't have 'lectric tools around, and had to install a ground rod... through asphault. (That was back with Unky Sam) I remember getting a rickety old wooden ladder and starting the process!

Still waiting to find some average soil. ;)

I use the binford 3000 automatic rock detecting ground rods. Haven't missed a rock yet! :grin:
Come to Colorado! You can find LOTS of average soil: Average of 90% rock!
And yes, I like ANYTHING Binford makes. :grin::grin::grin:

I think they make all our ground rods too! Haven't missed a single rock yet either. :grin:
In fact, I think they actually have homing devices installed, that aim for rocks, when underground! :roll:

[buddhakii]

Took the end of my index finger off driving a rod with a post driver last year. I only use a hammer drill now.

[hillbilly]

I've been on both sides of the equation. Summit County, CO you couldn't really go more then 3-4" in some spots w/o hitting BIG ROCKS. Mostly driven in by hand with a sledge. Now, here in WI I've used the Dewalt corded rotary hammer w/ the driver bit. There too, it can still hang up on rocks & such, but will usually break on thru after a while. Had one with a rock shelf going from about 4' down. Inspector told us there's a big rock shelf in that area, that no one could pound an 8' rod in that part of the county...
We tried anyway, we failed...

A 8' rod driven at a 45 degree angle will go down about 5 1/2 ft. vertical depth.

Usually, if you keep pounding (and pounding), the rod will bend and follow along the rock base, and you can get it all the way in.

I know that you probably already knew that, but I've had a lot of experience driving rods into rock bottoms, and just wanted to comment.:)

steve

[hillbilly]

Took the end of my index finger off driving a rod with a post driver last year. I only use a hammer drill now.

Owwww!

Man, that hurts my parts just hearing that.

steve

[220/221]

I haven't used a sledge since 1973.

I have always used a hammer drill to drive ground rods without the rod driver.. they were not always around. Can you harm your hammer drill doing that??

Yes, you can. I messed up one years ago.

We use a demo hammer now with a ground rod bit. 1 minute in good soil.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/JohnC1952/Gailspanel027.jpg


After 5 minutes in extreme soil I break out the length adjusting tool.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/JohnC1952/DSC01931.jpg

[zappy]

I haven't used a sledge since 1973.



Yes, you can. I messed up one years ago.

We use a demo hammer now with a ground rod bit. 1 minute in good soil.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/JohnC1952/Gailspanel027.jpg


After 5 minutes in extreme soil I break out the length adjusting tool.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/JohnC1952/DSC01931.jpgDoesn't the inspector see you hacked off some of the grd. rod??

[zappy]

Whats the depth 2 feet?Anyone ever have to resort to doing it this way?

[220/221]

Whats the depth 2 feet?

Come on, it's only like 6"



Anyone ever have to resort to doing it this way?

No one....ever.

Two pics, two different jobs. First ones went in like butter. Second one, not so much.

[480sparky]

You all have to remember 480sparky is in central Iowa. I have more rocks in my front flower bed than he will find in a 40 acre field. They don't call it Limestone County Alabama for nothing.

That's what you think..... that we're all cornfield and nothing else. ;) Every drive by a typical farm field around here? They all have a huge pile of rocks the farmer has drug out of the field to protect his discing equipment, and it sure don't go down eight feet!

The reason I got this critter is because we're littered with rocks below grade. Most are immigrants from Canada from the last Ice Age. I drove a rod last summer and it popped back up about 30" away from where I was driving it.

Hit a rock just right and started to do a nice concentric bend on the rod.

[LarryFine]

Larry, what is the model of the attachment you have. I want one!
I don't really know. I bought one at a local Hilti store, and the other two, I don't remember.

I imagine your favorite supply house or industrial tool seller would have, or can get, them.

[BLACK4TRUCK]

there was a EC by me who only needed a 1/2 inch bender and a shovel to drive a ground rod till an inspector kicked the ground rod and the other end moved also. The guy was a hack.. I think he works in Home Depot now giving advice to homeowners :rolleyes:

[LarryFine]

there was a EC by me who only needed a 1/2 inch bender and a shovel to drive a ground rod till an inspector kicked the ground rod and the other end moved also.The other end? :confused: Underground?


Added: Oh, wait, I'm getting the picture: He bent a pair of back-to-back 90's in a single rod and buried the rod 6" deep with both ends poked up.

You meant that the "other rod" also moved, right?

[Greg Swartz]

Doesn't the inspector see you hacked off some of the grd. rod??

Well, you put the acorn on, and then hammer the piss out of it. Ya can't very much tell then!
Be sure to pick up your adjusted length and call it in.

Notice there were 2 ground rods too...
We have to install 2 as well.

I guess urine and rock salt just don't go as far as they used to...
I used to get less than 1 ohm resistance to the ground that way.
Even in the sands of Yuma!

Put a good many ground rods out there!

[wirebender]

Come on, it's only like 6"





No one....ever.

Two pics, two different jobs. First ones went in like butter. Second one, not so much.
I think he was talking about laying it in a ditch.
Not about your install.

[BLACK4TRUCK]

The other end? :confused: Underground?


Added: Oh, wait, I'm getting the picture: He bent a pair of back-to-back 90's in a single rod and buried the rod 6" deep with both ends poked up.

You meant that the "other rod" also moved, right?


YES.. thanks for pointing that out :grin:

[LarryFine]

YES.. thanks for pointing that out :grin:Well, at least he had 7' in contact with earth. :roll:


He probably noticed one day that the rod was longer than the required 6' minimum spacing. "Hmmm." :cool:

[Fulthrotl]

Randy,
You really ARE a wise man.

Show ME the way of the Force, Obi Wan!
Greg

grasshopper, it's like this... when momma's not happy, nobody's happy.

when you can snatch the three wago's from my hand, it's time for you
to leave.....:D

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr66/FulThrotl/IMG_02891.jpg