Should your next truck be gas or electric?

[ohm]

The UK has a F150 plug-in electric that delivers 600 Hp and has a 100 mile range. http://www.hipadrive.com/sema.html

Maybe a house call in the future will be to repair a truck.

[macmikeman]

Maybe a "housecall" in the future will be to ask to borrow the exterior receptacle outlet, cause your truck died in front of theirs.....

[ohm]

Maybe a "housecall" in the future will be to ask to borrow the exterior receptacle outlet, cause your truck died in front of theirs.....

Maybe we just plug our trucks in at every service call and never buy gas again.

[Greg Swartz]

The UK has a F150 plug-in electric that delivers 600 Hp and has a 100 mile range. http://www.hipadrive.com/sema.html

Maybe a house call in the future will be to repair a truck.

I'm going to Denver next week. That's 60 miles... 1 way! But what about traffic jams... which happen a LOT! Are we talking 100 miles fully charged... take a look at the "can't decide" thread which talks about tools and their battery issues.

How long would this battery last? Full charge today is 100 miles. Tomorrow is... 70... 80 miles?

Then in Colorado, it got to -4, which is warm compared to some of you... What's the range there? 20-30 miles?

How long to charge? 8 hours?
Quick charge?

Then the parking lot where I have to park and pay $10 for, doesn't have this.... when they do, it will probably be a $25 charge for this.

[macmikeman]

You know, actually me tinks it is going to be great, and they will get better mileage in time for the electric cars, its just that hundred mile thing in relation to electrical work. Me, I live on a pretty small island, but I can easily put more than a hundred miles on my van in a day if I got lots of calls to go hit.

[ohm]

You know, actually me tinks it is going to be great, and they will get better mileage in time for the electric cars, its just that hundred mile thing in relation to electrical work. Me, I live on a pretty small island, but I can easily put more than a hundred miles on my van in a day if I got lots of calls to go hit.

I have a four battery inverter system on my truck so I seldom need to run my 1Kw generator. If I'm pulling hard on my 120V 20A inverter I will start my generator and let it keep the batteries up, or let them charge off the trucks generator. I seldom if ever buy gas. I suspect a small on-board generator could run all day for a few bucks if the battteries are getting low and a long haul is planned.

Supply house might even be coaxed into letting you plug in while you shop.

[LarryFine]

Just to play dark cloud, please remember that electric vehicles are not pollution-free (carbon, whaterver), they're merely pollution-displacing.

The electricity still must be generated. The vehilce doesn't pollute where it's operated, but it does have a 'green footprint' nonetheless.

Imagine if the entire country went all-electric for all motor vehicles. The infra-structure that would have to be designed and built would be staggering.

[iwire]

Just to play dark cloud, please remember that electric vehicles are not pollution-free (carbon, whaterver), they're merely pollution-displacing.

The electricity still must be generated. The vehicle doesn't pollute where it's operated, but it does have a 'green footprint' nonetheless.

Lets also not forget the pollution per mile will still be less then the gasoline driven vehicle.

That said, while I was driving my van in a winter storm recently I noticed an electric car beside me and I got to wondering how much less distance it could travel while running the defroster, wipers and lighting.

Imagine if the entire country went all-electric for all motor vehicles. The infra-structure that would have to be designed and built would be staggering.

I wonder if that is really true? :smile: Consider that many of the chargers could be set up to charge at what is now off peak times.

I am not saying that your point is not a good one I just wonder where the truth of the matter would be. Usually it is somewhere between the naysayers and the tree huggers. :smile:

[hardworkingstiff]

Battery technology needs to improve greatly before I'd be on board. Like Bob questioned, what happens when you run heaters, air conditioners, etc.

[petersonra]

I was doing some number crunching in my head.

gasoline has about 115,000 btus/gallon.

gasoline engines are perhaps 30% efficient.

that means a gallon of gas is roughly equivalent to 10 kw-hrs of electricity.

most of us pay around 10 cents for a kw-hr of electricity. there is also about 45 cents/gallon on average worth of motor fuel taxes on gasoline. some states add general sales tax on top of that.

that means the average price of electricity to replace a gallon of gas once taxes are put on it, is not much different than what a gallon of gas costs right now. you really can't believe that government is not somehow going to find a way to tax electricity used to power cars and trucks, do you?

as for refueling. if you plug your electric car in at night, your 20A/115V circuit can typically provide about 2 kw-hrs per hour. that means it will take five hours of charging to replace the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline.

[Greg Swartz]

...Imagine if the entire country went all-electric for all motor vehicles. The infra-structure that would have to be designed and built would be staggering.
Exactly! :D (Where's teh ebul grin smiley? :mad:)

I want a part of that... in fact, I want a BIG part of that!

[brian john]

Well I drove 250 miles today so I guess I would have pushed 150 miles worth of F-150.

[LarryFine]

That said, while I was driving my van in a winter storm recently I noticed an electric car beside me and I got to wondering how much less distance it could travel while running the defroster, wipers and lighting.Maybe they have a miles-remaining voltmeter.

I am not saying that your point is not a good one I just wonder where the truth of the matter would be. Usually it is somewhere between the naysayers and the tree huggers. :smile:Nay-huggers or tree-sayers?

[LarryFine]

Like Bob questioned, what happens when you run heaters, air conditioners, etc.
Maybe they'll get heat from motor ventilation, like Corvairs used to, but without the smell.

[cowboyjwc]

The batteries in an electric car use a different technology than your regular batteries, but I still don't know how things like cold would affect them.

Here in CA you get a seperate meter for your car charger and it is on a timer so that you can only charge it during off peak hours. If you do charge it during peak hours, it's really, really, expensive.

Most of the chargers that I have seen use the same type end that is used on forklift chargers and what not, I assume that you can plug into a regular outlet in an emergency, but most of them that I have seen are 50 amps or so. Even though I did see a new model out that is supposed to do 0-60 in better time than my Mustang, you still only got 200 mile in it. Most people that buy them learn very quickly that they are only really good for around town.

Now natural gas is another way to go.

[Karl H]

Unless Nikola Tesla's Induction System is utilized. Electric service trucks
IMO is a terrible idea. I'm not trying to be negative ,I just can see a lot of
vehicles stranded along the highway, in a battery powered future.

[wptski]

Battery technology needs to improve greatly before I'd be on board. Like Bob questioned, what happens when you run heaters, air conditioners, etc.
Some don't allow A/C while on battery and under 20MPH, so get ready to sweat!

[Greg Swartz]

...Maybe a house call in the future will be to repair a truck.
I totally missed that the first 3 times I read that.

That would be neat: "Call **** Electric for all your electric vehicle needs!"

[hardworkingstiff]

Some don't allow A/C while on battery and under 20MPH, so get ready to sweat!

It get's hot here. I'll pay the $4-$5/gallon for gas before I go w/out AC.

[ohm]

Exactly! :D (Where's teh ebul grin smiley? :mad:)

I want a part of that... in fact, I want a BIG part of that!

Sounds like we will be awful busy if this idea continues. Most grids can't share enough power to fully carry the next, so lots of windmills and PV solar will be comming online to distribute power. I read the US is #1 in wind now at 25Gw and they desperately need preventative maintenance.

Super capacitors are about to replace batteries. They charge faster, run cooler and recover much of the energy expended during acceleration, upon deceleration (no brakes) as the motors become generators.

[mikeames]

When gas was above $100 CNBC had an "energy expert" who said the estimates say the current grid can only take 1-2 million electric vehicles. I have no idea on the validity of that statement I am just writing what I heard on CNBC.

[Besoeker]

The UK has a F150 plug-in electric that delivers 600 Hp and has a 100 mile range. http://www.hipadrive.com/sema.html
Bit of a stretch to say that the UK has this. It's a prototype.

It has room for a 40 kWh battery.
And 600HP.
And a range of 100 miles.
Bold claims.

At 600 HP, the battery would last just over five minutes. To get the 100 miles in that time is approaching mach 2 speeds.
Different claims I know, but the association is there.

The 100-mile range* would suit the daily journey for many. Recharge overnight. Go again the next day. All good. Maybe.....
In UK, the maximum output from a regular power outlet is about 3kW. Allowing for a little loss in the system, recharging would take around 16 hours. Having your vehicle out of use 16 hours a day wouldn't suit many who depend on it for their livelihood.

I quite often make a 400 mile round trip in a day and spend some hours on site. Sure, it's a long day. But one day. If I had to stop for 16 hours every 100 miles it would be a long week.

Electric vehicles have some way to go before they become mainstream.
I'm not knocking the idea.
As manufacturer of the motors, controllers and chargers used in some of them, an expansion in the field could be very good for our business.

But, being pragmatic, I accept that it isn't a short term market for volume production.


*up to

[morganjoseph]

Aren't battery powered cars (without combustion engines) mainly coal powered cars?? Burn the coal, generate electricity, send the electricity, power a battery... there are some serious efficiency penalties in all these processes...

[SmithBuilt]

Aren't battery powered cars (without combustion engines) mainly coal powered cars?? Burn the coal, generate electricity, send the electricity, power a battery... there are some serious efficiency penalties in all these processes...

Maybe, probably.


But hey at least there's that feel good factor.:D





The one good thing would be that we are keeping our money here instead of sending it to terrorist countries. Plus I all the electrical work that would need to be done just for charging. I need to learn about photovoltaics anyways.

[ohm]

Bit of a stretch to say that the UK has this. It's a prototype.

It has room for a 40 kWh battery.
And 600HP.
And a range of 100 miles.
Bold claims.

At 600 HP, the battery would last just over five minutes. To get the 100 miles in that time is approaching mach 2 speeds.
Different claims I know, but the association is there.

The 100-mile range* would suit the daily journey for many. Recharge overnight. Go again the next day. All good. Maybe.....
In UK, the maximum output from a regular power outlet is about 3kW. Allowing for a little loss in the system, recharging would take around 16 hours. Having your vehicle out of use 16 hours a day wouldn't suit many who depend on it for their livelihood.

I quite often make a 400 mile round trip in a day and spend some hours on site. Sure, it's a long day. But one day. If I had to stop for 16 hours every 100 miles it would be a long week.

Electric vehicles have some way to go before they become mainstream.
I'm not knocking the idea.
As manufacturer of the motors, controllers and chargers used in some of them, an expansion in the field could be very good for our business.

But, being pragmatic, I accept that it isn't a short term market for volume production.


*up to
I don't understand how the 600 Hp claim is a problem. That would be like saying if you have a 200A service on your house your power bill would be: 200*240*24*30*.1= $3,456,000 per month.

As you stated a car w/ the same specs could be a very useful to a mom who only travels a few miles a day for milk, bread & eggs. A car gets terrible gas mileage for the first few miles. IMHO if even a third of the cars in US fell in this group a lot of problems would go away.

[ultramegabob]

I'm going to Denver next week. That's 60 miles... 1 way! But what about traffic jams... which happen a LOT! Are we talking 100 miles fully charged... take a look at the "can't decide" thread which talks about tools and their battery issues.

How long would this battery last? Full charge today is 100 miles. Tomorrow is... 70... 80 miles?

Then in Colorado, it got to -4, which is warm compared to some of you... What's the range there? 20-30 miles?

How long to charge? 8 hours?
Quick charge?

Then the parking lot where I have to park and pay $10 for, doesn't have this.... when they do, it will probably be a $25 charge for this.

I dont think the battery is going to drain if you are just sitting in traffic, you should get almost exactly the same amount of milage, its not like you have an engine idling the electric motor will only use power when you are driving.

[Besoeker]

I don't understand how the 600 Hp claim is a problem.
I didn't say it was a problem, more like guilt by assocoation if you see what I mean.
But I do have just a little problem or two with this article:
http://www.sema.org/Main/ArticleDetail.aspx?fc_c=1209857x2654523x62448720&contentID=60751
For 600hp total, each motor would have to be capable of 150hp, short term at least. From a 66 lb motor, that would be challenge but not impossible. We make permanent magnet brushless DC motors in that ball park. They run at typically 20,000 rpm and are water cooled.
The artice states "over 150 lb.-ft. of torque where it matters most—in the wheel—at any speed. ". That torque infers a shaft speed of about 5300rpm for the 150hp. To match this with wheel rpm, you'd need a reduction gearbox between the motor output shaft and the wheel. From the same article:
Hi-Pa Drive effectively replaces the mechanical drivetrain, gearbox...
So is this reduction gearbox included in the 66 lb unsprung weight thus making the actual motor less than 66 lb or the unsprung mass greater?
I think I read too, that the controller for each motor is incorporated on the motor itself.
An additional 66 lb added to the unsprung weight of each wheel isn't insignificant.

Battery voltage, maybe 300V?
That would equate to 1600A or so allowing for minimal losses.
Or around a 400A cpacaity for each controller.

PR hype maybe.
Short on technical detail.