Charging for a helper

[Mule]

Ok, Im considering going up on helper rates, and Im curious how much the rest of you get for a 1-2 year aprentice??? So what percentage of jman rates do you charge??

example 1....jman $65 x 54% = $35 aprentice

example 2....jman $100 x 45% = $45 aprentice

[cadpoint]

Ah, In English ? It's an apprentice at journeyman wages, no wonder I didn't stay with my first vocation!

Besides, I thought you were working through you reduced winter rates ?

I also have to confess here that I don't understand what your asking?

Mule, I have to say I enjoy your threads, and somehow you always come out smelling like a Rose, carry on... :rolleyes:

[stickboy1375]

Ok, Im considering going up on helper rates, and Im curious how much the rest of you get for a 1-2 year aprentice??? So what percentage of jman rates do you charge??

example 1....jman $65 x 54% = $35 aprentice

example 2....jman $100 x 45% = $45 aprentice

Most guys dont think you charge enough as it is, why are you worried about a helpers rate? :roll:

[Mule]

Ah, In English ? It's an apprentice at journeyman wages, no wonder I didn't stay with my first vocation!
lost me there

Besides, I thought you were working through you reduced winter rates ?
That was only one client

I also have to confess here that I don't understand what your asking?
Oh, come on ...its not that hard...:smile:

Mule, I have to say I enjoy your threads, and somehow you always come out smelling like a Rose, carry on... :rolleyes:
Sorry to bore you:grin:,

[Mule]

Most guys dont think you charge enough as it is, why are you worried about a helpers rate? :roll:

Ok, that's the reason I asked for a percentage......the question is about the helper rates, not jman rates. Your arguement is with this area and its rates, not me...Im just trying to play in the sand box just like you...its just that your area is different, we've wore that out, how many times??..come on....:smile:

[Greg Swartz]

Mule,
If I have extended service work that requires 2 guys, and 1's a helper, my Journeyman goes out at $68 / hour and my apprentice goes out at $45 / hour.

I won't go any less than that. And I have charged full rate for my helper many times. I don't list it as Journeyman and Apprentice unless asked to do so.

Right now on a government job, it's $66.xx and $51.xx for their rates at the USAFA... and they start tomorrow for 2 weeks.

Hope that helps.
Greg

[Mule]

Mule,
If I have extended service work that requires 2 guys, and 1's a helper, my Journeyman goes out at $68 / hour and my apprentice goes out at $45 / hour.

I won't go any less than that. And I have charged full rate for my helper many times. I don't list it as Journeyman and Apprentice unless asked to do so.

Right now on a government job, it's $66.xx and $51.xx for their rates at the USAFA... and they start tomorrow for 2 weeks.

Hope that helps.
Greg

Yes that helps thanks......for your first statement that's about 66% of your jman rate.....So how seasoned is that apprentice?

[iwire]

Ok, Im considering going up on helper rates, and Im curious how much the rest of you get for a 1-2 year aprentice??? So what percentage of jman rates do you charge??

example 1....jman $65 x 54% = $35 aprentice

example 2....jman $100 x 45% = $45 aprentice

The two companies I have worked for over the past 12 years charge the same for either in the service divisions. But we never use green guys, always at least a couple years in on the four year apprenticeship.

[hardworkingstiff]

I think your looking at it wrong. It shouldn't be a % of the J-man, it should be the cost of the helper + OH and Profit = selling rate.

[nakulak]

charge as much as possible

[Mule]

I think your looking at it wrong. It shouldn't be a % of the J-man, it should be the cost of the helper + OH and Profit = selling rate.

Thanks.. I already have that information, and now Im focused on the market..thus this thread.

[Rewire]

0-1000 hours = 55%

1000-2000 hours= 65%

2000-3000 hours = 75%

3000-4000 hours = 85%

[Minuteman]

Apprentices with less than 2 years experience = 50%

Apprentices with more than 2 years experience = 100% (If they pretty much know what's going on and are motivated)

[Fulthrotl]

Ok, Im considering going up on helper rates, and Im curious how much the rest of you get for a 1-2 year aprentice??? So what percentage of jman rates do you charge??

example 1....jman $65 x 54% = $35 aprentice

example 2....jman $100 x 45% = $45 aprentice

mostly around here, it's simply labor units, in bidding, no discount.
the difference between journeyman and apprenticle pay in theory
is to offset the difference in knowledge and productivity. after a
couple years however, an apprentice can do stuff about the same
as a journeyman, not all of it, but a lot. that's the incentive for
the contractor to hire an apprentice.

pay scales for an apprentice in a four year apprenticeship started at
50%, and went up in 5% increments to 90%, then to 100% when you
passed the journeyman's test.

a 5 year apprenticeship starts at 35% and moves upward the same way.

[360Youth]

I generally do not charge full rate for a helper simply because they do not do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. And I have had GC's ask me about. Not in an accusing manner, but if I charge 85/hr for 8 hours of my work and a helper spends 12 hours doing the same work, I am not going to charge the customer more than what it should take to do the job. Of course it varies from job to job. If I have a job that requires one man in an attic or crawl space and another on a main floor, or a man on each end of a piece of conduit pulling wire, than the rates are the same all the way around because the same work is being accomplished no matter what your skill level.

[electricguy61]

For service work, I don't break it down between journeyperson (ain't that PC:D) and apprentice.

Flat rate, two men: $135 per hour

Easier that way.

[hardworkingstiff]

Thanks.. I already have that information, and now Im focused on the market..thus this thread.

This answer means I don't have a clue as to what your original question is (yes, I read it), and still don't.

[tonyou812]

I generally do not charge full rate for a helper simply because they do not do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. And I have had GC's ask me about. Not in an accusing manner, but if I charge 85/hr for 8 hours of my work and a helper spends 12 hours doing the same work, I am not going to charge the customer more than what it should take to do the job. Of course it varies from job to job. If I have a job that requires one man in an attic or crawl space and another on a main floor, or a man on each end of a piece of conduit pulling wire, than the rates are the same all the way around because the same work is being accomplished no matter what your skill level.
So how do you break things into man hours? a job takes a Jman 2 hours and a apprentice with a "classified" skill level .85 percent of Jman.....? Sounds like your just making it more difficult than it needs to be.
And for what its worth Ive worked for EC'S that couldn't bend a stick of rigid 3/4 to save their lives so what would he charge for himself.....? you see what I mean...your way leaves too many questions for the customer, builder IMO. But if it works for you .......se la vee

[Mule]

0-1000 hours = 55%

1000-2000 hours= 65%

2000-3000 hours = 75%

3000-4000 hours = 85%



Apprentices with less than 2 years experience = 50%

Apprentices with more than 2 years experience = 100% (If they pretty much know what's going on and are motivated)

Thanks this is exactly what I searching for......I'v been watching my helper really close on task that Im sure that he knows. He is probably around 50% slower than myself, with some of that difference being character differences and the rest of it being skill differences. So I've been charging just less than 50%, but Im wanting to raising it.

I just want the value to the customer to be fair and equitable. So, he's been at it nearly a year now, getting more confident and I'm going to raise his billable rate.

[Cow]

Our shop charges about $10/hr less than the journeyman rate for apprentices regardless of their experience. Service calls, bids, whatever, the price stays the same.

Not saying this is right, just what our shop charges.:smile: We also have a shop guy too, if we decide we can use him as manual labor, digging trenches, cleaning up the jobsite etc, sometimes we'll bill him out at apprentice rates too if he saves us from having to do the work.

[Mule]

Our shop charges about $10/hr less than the journeyman rate for apprentices regardless of their experience. Service calls, bids, whatever, the price stays the same.

Not saying this is right, just what our shop charges.:smile: We also have a shop guy too, if we decide we can use him as manual labor, digging trenches, cleaning up the jobsite etc, sometimes we'll bill him out at apprentice rates too if he saves the electricians from having to do the work.

With that said, While on the job today, the customer comes up to me and ask, " do you mind if I ask you a question?" I said no, shoot. So he ask," how much to do plumbers charge?" So I said, well all of the ones I know charge $75/hr why? So then he goes on to tell me how this plumber and his helper worked 1 1/2/hr and charged $229, with no materials. So, all I knew to say, was that as a apprentice works through his apprenticeship he's worth closer to full jman rates. So the customer says, well he didnt do anything...:mad:

So, we all know that the customer doesnt see the whole picture, but Im just pointing out that the customer wants value for what he is charged, and to me, in a small town, it matters to me what the customer thinks....:smile:

[ohm]

Our shop charges about $10/hr less than the journeyman rate for apprentices regardless of their experience. Service calls, bids, whatever, the price stays the same.

Not saying this is right, just what our shop charges.:smile: We also have a shop guy too, if we decide we can use him as manual labor, digging trenches, cleaning up the jobsite etc, sometimes we'll bill him out at apprentice rates too if he saves us from having to do the work.

Sounds like you guys have it nailed. If your doing mechanical work (unistrut) or digging trenches the young guy with the shovel or the socket set
should be making as much (if not more) than the JM.

Just place yourself in the shoes of the client. He probably would go along with your method, at least until the helper started standing around watching the JM.