Shop size poll, how many people

[Mule]

Ok, Im curious what the size of your shop is.....Some of you may be a one man band, and others might be involved in a 50 man shop...

as you already know, our is a two man, myself and one helper.

[chris kennedy]

20.........

[greg y]

3 guys in the field, owner in the shop.

[Rewire]

I have four guys in the field an office manager and myself.

[ohmhead]

Well our company which has normally 1200 people on staff and our total electricians in the work force is around 800 or so . We are in central florida and do mostly service work new residential , heavy commercial , industrial ,power plant just about every type of project we even work out of the good old usa . take care best to yas

[TOOL_5150]

2 in the field 2 in the office. We are a little different though, we are an in-house electrical contractor for a different company that sells other stuff. My supervisor is the license holder, his brother owns the whole company, im the foreman and I have a guy working under me.

~Matt

[RJohnsonMasterElectrician]

We were at 20 and just hired 3 more so technically were at 23 in the field and 10 in the office.

[Ebow]

The company I work for used to have eight plus the boss. Now it's down to just four and the boss. The boss does very little hands on work, he just bids and bills and whatever.

Gene
______________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.

[Karl H]

25 guys in the field, three in the office.

[nunu161]

we got about 25-30 in the field and 8 in the office

[BLACK4TRUCK]

I used to have a helper, but found out it was much easier working alone. Pulling wires can be a problem, but you get good at finding a working system. I use a 200 ft. reel snake and pushing the wires into the pipe works really good if you put a 5 pound weight tied onto the reel handle. Things get slow and I don't have to worry about having work to keep anyone busy. Best part of being a one man band is NO STRESS!! :grin:

[infinity]

About 210 in the field and another 20-30 in the office. Given the current economic situation that number could be 150 in a few weeks.

[Mule]

I used to have a helper, but found out it was much easier working alone. Pulling wires can be a problem, but you get good at finding a working system. I use a 200 ft. reel snake and pushing the wires into the pipe works really good if you put a 5 pound weight tied onto the reel handle. Things get slow and I don't have to worry about having work to keep anyone busy. Best part of being a one man band is NO STRESS!! :grin:

Im going to try that !!! I assume your up in the air with that method, otherwise it would be on the ground after one shove??

Well twice as many folks have the 1-3 person size shop as compared to the greater than 15, so far....:cool:

[Short.Circuit]

Just me, myself & I. I used to have a helper, Sparky Jr., on big houses. He now sits & drinks all day. Don't miss him..

[tonyou812]

Just Moi. Hope to hire a full time apprentice within a few months.

[Mule]

About 210 in the field and another 20-30 in the office. Given the current economic situation that number could be 150 in a few weeks.


Wow, 210 thats enormous.....I bet its nice to have all of the resources that a large shop could offer. Estimators, engineers, material delivery.....etc..

[infinity]

Wow, 210 thats enormous.....I bet its nice to have all of the resources that a large shop could offer. Estimators, engineers, material delivery.....etc..


It has it's advantages, some of which you've mentioned. But it does have some disadvantages too one being that you could just end up being a number.

[220/221]

A year ago we had 3 in the office, 8 in the field and I was almost retired.

Today there are 2 in the office, 3 fulltime, 1 part time in the field and I am back to work maybe 3 days a week. :mad:

[iaov]

I'm a one man band. Occasionaly I hire a helper. I hope the economy settles down. I would like to hire a full time apprentice.

[don_resqcapt19]

We have about 30 now, but usually have over 40 and have had over 100 at times. There are 5 in the office.

[480sparky]

In the past, I've worked for some small companies (1-10) and some big ones (over 1,000).

To date, I prefer working for myself, by myself.

[yanici]

I used to have a helper, but found out it was much easier working alone. Pulling wires can be a problem, but you get good at finding a working system. I use a 200 ft. reel snake and pushing the wires into the pipe works really good if you put a 5 pound weight tied onto the reel handle. Things get slow and I don't have to worry about having work to keep anyone busy. Best part of being a one man band is NO STRESS!! :grin:

Yeah, I new a guy that always worked alone. When he needed a hand, pulling wire, etc., he would actually go out onto the sidwalk and get some young guy walking by to help. He would offer him maybe $20 for a small amount of work. It worked for him.:smile:

[Rewire]

Yeah, I new a guy that always worked alone. When he needed a hand, pulling wire, etc., he would actually go out onto the sidwalk and get some young guy walking by to help. He would offer him maybe $20 for a small amount of work. It worked for him.:smile:

As long as the guy doesn't get injured on the job and sue you for everything you own or decides he wants a tax refund and turns you in to the IRS or you get audited and need to account were that twenty went.

[Mule]

Yeah, I new a guy that always worked alone. When he needed a hand, pulling wire, etc., he would actually go out onto the sidwalk and get some young guy walking by to help. He would offer him maybe $20 for a small amount of work. It worked for him.:smile:

With the licensing laws in Okra-homa that would not be legal for a contractor. A helper must hold an apprentice card. Not sure if it would be enforced or not, thats how it reads....

I know a GC that has a different helper EVERY time I see him, and thats at least weekly. For him, its because he's cheap and he's hard to get along with........:rolleyes:

[sparkyway]

Lone Wolf... with an occasional helper. In the residential realm, I want to complete all switches and recepts, mount the lights and smokies, flip all the breakers on ... list breakers, complete a load sheet, and smile on down the road knowing it was another smooth job. I've heard the only one I can get along with is myself but... that just couldn't be true? In this slowing economy, I am so glad I don't have the worry of employees. This just works for me right now...I would be willing to hire if the need arose but so far, not necessary to do my residential work.;)

[Dnkldorf]

This is interesting.

It seems there is no common demonimator for the people in the field vs people in the office here.

Some of your shops run from 2-1, to 10-1.

This is interesting, when you take into account the overhead expenses generated by office staff.

[Rewire]

This is interesting.

It seems there is no common demonimator for the people in the field vs people in the office here.

Some of your shops run from 2-1, to 10-1.

This is interesting, when you take into account the overhead expenses generated by office staff.

An office manager was one of the best investments I have made.Our cash flow greatly improved as invoicing was more timely as well as the increase in accuracy reduced the amount of shrinkage we were expieriencing.Our inventory became manageable with less duplication. We were able to reduce unneeded trips to the supply house by keeping in stock our most used items and pre order for many jobs.

[Rockyd]

Wow, I must be odd man out. Working for an outfit from Michigan, on a large scale project in the desert. The project is somewhere around 2.9 billion before any changes. Happy camper as long as they keep writing checks:)

[Karl H]

Wow, I must be odd man out. Working for an outfit from Michigan, on a large scale project in the desert. The project is somewhere around 2.9 billion before any changes. Happy camper as long as they keep writing checks:)

2.9 billion? What are you building?

[Rockyd]

Kitchen areas in the Fontainebleau (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/fontainebleau.htm), in Las Vegas. 42 foot to the ceiling, really a pain when you have to work up there. Most of the stuff has been on a 12 foot ladder and a 20 foot man lift (drop ceilings no taller than 14 foot, hides a lot of pipe:)


Supposed to be done this fall...

[Karl H]

Kitchen areas in the Fontainebleau (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/fontainebleau.htm), in Las Vegas. 42 foot to the ceiling, really a pain when you have to work up there. Most of the stuff has been on a 12 foot ladder and a 20 foot man lift (drop ceilings no taller than 14 foot, hides a lot of pipe:)


Supposed to be done this fall...

Looks like an interresting project. :smile:

[Rockyd]

Challenging, and anything but boring. hope this one doesn't have any money problems like a lot of Vegas does right now. If your in a good spot financially, and Vegas is your thing, the town is for sale CHEAP! You will never get an opportunity to stretch dollar in Vegas like right now.

As far as the shop I work at, I think there has to be at least 50 to a 100 of us there. I'm in a spot above the garrage, and only four of us in the Kitchen(s), along with the power and fire alarm crews, so don't see much of the job site.

[BLACK4TRUCK]

Yeah, I new a guy that always worked alone. When he needed a hand, pulling wire, etc., he would actually go out onto the sidwalk and get some young guy walking by to help. He would offer him maybe $20 for a small amount of work. It worked for him.:smile:

That is something I have never done. The chances of something going wrong and being sued is not worth it. There are legit companies around here that "rent" out an electrician for the day or a laborer.. what ever you need. Last year I did (4) 600 amp. services with meter stacks. There were a total of 26 meters. I made a deal with the owner to help me hang the meter stacks. I made another deal with the Cable company to dig a 40 inch deep trench and I put my primary it first, backfill, and his wires were on top. It all worked out just fine. Having a good game plan is half the battle.

[e57]

Funny what I picked is what my shop used to be 2 months ago, and what it is now...

[Teaspoon]

We are a small Residential shop.Just me and my wife.
But we have learned to handle most jobs by ourselves.
Our son helps us when we really need help.
for instance when we have a large house.
Then most of the time he will help us pull the home run's.
It is nice to have an extra set of hands especially on Multi level houses.

[rt66electric]

Hey Mule ! ! ! If you are near the Tulsa area give me a call and I'll buy you lunch. I may also have you help me pull wire... I work alone mostly, but I have a retired electrician help out, mostly because we enjoy each other company . He cannot hold a card because of retirement rules, but we have never had a problems with an inspector. My general day goes like this ---- drop off 2boys at elementary school, do service calls/smalljobs for 6hrs , meet kids at home afterschool. I generally make as much as I would working for the other guy putting in a hard 8hrs.

[Mule]

Hey Mule ! ! ! If you are near the Tulsa area give me a call and I'll buy you lunch. I may also have you help me pull wire... I work alone mostly, but I have a retired electrician help out, mostly because we enjoy each other company . He cannot hold a card because of retirement rules, but we have never had a problems with an inspector. My general day goes like this ---- drop off 2boys at elementary school, do service calls/smalljobs for 6hrs , meet kids at home afterschool. I generally make as much as I would working for the other guy putting in a hard 8hrs.


Tie them two boys on as weights onto your fish tape like was earlier mentioned. then you can push the wire real easy......:grin:

I'll remember that lunch for sure........never pass up free food....:grin:

[Mule]

Well so far, this poll tells me two things.....first, one man bands, have a big presence in the trade......

second, the poll also shows that shops of four and greater carry just as big of a presence, and so does the cost to run those businesses.

Then from the customer or market perspective, the market will reflect higher prices due to more work being done by larger shops. I say this because of the assumption that overhead cost and profit expectations have to drive the price upward from the level of a one man band.

Is this a fair statement???

[roger3829]

One man show. My son is just graduating from a technical high school, has been helping for a while.

[Rewire]

Well so far, this poll tells me two things.....first, one man bands, have a big presence in the trade......

second, the poll also shows that shops of four and greater carry just as big of a presence, and so does the cost to run those businesses.

Then from the customer or market perspective, the market will reflect higher prices due to more work being done by larger shops. I say this because of the assumption that overhead cost and profit expectations have to drive the price upward from the level of a one man band.

Is this a fair statement???

The advantage to having more than one man is that you increse your available man hours.You also can spread your overhead among them. many of your overhead costs are fixed and the additional costs are easily absorbed by the increase in billable hours.

Having two men does not double your overhed

If you need $800.00 per day one man would bill at $100.00 for 8 hours

with two men you can reach your target in 4 hours 2x100=200x4=800

[mjf]

Just me

No problem finding a helper if and when I need one

[IrishRugger]

Just me although if I need some help say on a large house my wife can help me with making up boxes at rough in, or installing devices & fixtures during the finish. As far as pulling in long wire runs in conduit I usuall push shorter run but I'm going to try the weight on the fishtape thing.

[charlie b]

I worked for an electrical contractor for about a year, and not a recent year. They have about 350 employees. I was in their Design Build department, obviously in the "design" side of the business, working with a staff of about 10.

[Mule]

The advantage to having more than one man is that you increse your available man hours.You also can spread your overhead among them. many of your overhead costs are fixed and the additional costs are easily absorbed by the increase in billable hours.

Having two men does not double your overhed

If you need $800.00 per day one man would bill at $100.00 for 8 hours

with two men you can reach your target in 4 hours 2x100=200x4=800


Ok, understood, but if you take your tools OFF and are running say 4 jman and trucks, what does your profit expectations do to your billable hour cost? I understand the overhead cost division, but you have to re-gain what you lost by taking your tools off??...EDS-U-CATE me...:cool:

To me it would take quite a bit of mark up to recover. So, all Im saying is that it looks like to me that having a 3-5 men would not be that much more profit than just putting your tools back on...

[peter d]

2.9 billion? What are you building?

A birdhouse.

[Rewire]

Ok, understood, but if you take your tools OFF and are running say 4 jman and trucks, what does your profit expectations do to your billable hour cost? I understand the overhead cost division, but you have to re-gain what you lost by taking your tools off??...EDS-U-CATE me...:cool:

To me it would take quite a bit of mark up to recover. So, all Im saying is that it looks like to me that having a 3-5 men would not be that much more profit than just putting your tools back on...
lets say you bill $60/hr half covers you and half covers overhead

so $30 for you and $30 for overhead

now you add four guys each billing at $60/hr 0r $240/hr

each gets $30/hr for wage and burden or 4 x $30 = $120

subtract from $240 - $120 = $120

subtract your $30 for overhead $120-$30 = $90

now subtract your $30 so $90 - 30 = $60

lets say your overhead doubled so take another $30 that still leaves you with $30/hr profit

you work with your tools 8 hours and then spend an additional 4 hours bidding jobs doing estimates invoicing etc.. average day 12 hours working as a one man show

I work 8 hours doing paper work ,bidding,ordering parts , checking jobs meeting new customers ,building a business average day 8 hours


30 x 40 = $1200 week for one man show working 60 hours


(30 + 30 ) x 40 = $2400 for me working 40 hour week

[William1978]

A birdhouse.
:D: Thats funny right there :D:

[William1978]

I work for a company that has about 200 employees.

[Red Wiggler]

Around 500, maybe more.

[Mule]

lets say you bill $60/hr half covers you and half covers overhead

so $30 for you and $30 for overhead

now you add four guys each billing at $60/hr 0r $240/hr

each gets $30/hr for wage and burden or 4 x $30 = $120

subtract from $240 - $120 = $120

subtract your $30 for overhead $120-$30 = $90

now subtract your $30 so $90 - 30 = $60

lets say your overhead doubled so take another $30 that still leaves you with $30/hr profit

you work with your tools 8 hours and then spend an additional 4 hours bidding jobs doing estimates invoicing etc.. average day 12 hours working as a one man show

I work 8 hours doing paper work ,bidding,ordering parts , checking jobs meeting new customers ,building a business average day 8 hours


30 x 40 = $1200 week for one man show working 60 hours


(30 + 30 ) x 40 = $2400 for me working 40 hour week

All sounds good, rewire, and I appreciate your explanation.

This is how I operate.....

My markup on materials, and profit on my helper pays all of my overhead.

25% markup x $3000 to $5000/mo in materials=$1000,

$15/hr profit on 30 billable helper hours=$450x4.3 wk/mo=$1935

total $2935 mothly business cost.

My helper sub contracts to me as labor only at a premium of $20/hr , but only gets paid per billable hour. He pays his own taxes.

My $65/hr goes right in my pocket, of course I have to pay tax's on that. (yes, this a target, and doesnt alway work out 100%, but Im getting better all the time)
So $65x28-30 billable hours/wk...is $1800-1950/wk.........Paper work is done in one morning per week, invoicing is done on the job, on customers time while the helper is rolling up tools, and the 28-30 billable hours is spread out across 4 1/2 days.

Not knocking anyone else's method at all, its' just that to make more doesnt make me want to become a office person, which I would hate. Now for the next person, that's ok, with me...

However, one of these days, I wont be able to perform 100% as jman, and I'll be forced to do the next best thing, which is what you do....:grin:

[cadpoint]

My helper sub contracts to me as labor only at a premium of $20/hr , but only gets paid per billable hour. He pays his own taxes.

....:grin:

Your not doing you new person any favors! JMO

I'd be smiling too, the IRS might be to, only because you used the word sub-contractor, but then he wouldn't be a "helper".

There's about 4-5 major tax laws that state what an employee employer relationship is, a helper or laborer is under your direction supervision which is one of them and a contractor isn't.

[bradleyelectric]

Kitchen areas in the Fontainebleau (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/fontainebleau.htm), in Las Vegas. 42 foot to the ceiling, really a pain when you have to work up there. Most of the stuff has been on a 12 foot ladder and a 20 foot man lift (drop ceilings no taller than 14 foot, hides a lot of pipe:)


Supposed to be done this fall...

There was an old time little gambling hall there. I forget it's name, but remember I couldn't lose enough money to get out of there.

[Mule]

Your not doing you new person any favors! JMO

I'd be smiling too, the IRS might be to, only because you used the word sub-contractor, but then he wouldn't be a "helper".

There's about 4-5 major tax laws that state what an employee employer relationship is, a helper or laborer is under your direction supervision which is one of them and a contractor isn't.

Remember this is my son in law, he has a full time job as a fireman.


We are in the process right now of making a legal partnership, which in truth is the sceniario,........ then the billable hours will be split at a percentage base upon an agreement.

[bradleyelectric]

Remember this is my son in law, he has a full time job as a fireman.


We are in the process right now of making a legal partnership, which in truth is the sceniario,........ then the billable hours will be split at a percentage base upon an agreement.

So what licenses and general liability insurances does he cover?

[Rewire]

So what licenses and general liability insurances does he cover?

Not to mention after a 48 hour shift at the firehouse Mules got him working another 30,must not want any gran kids.

[Mule]

So what licenses and general liability insurances does he cover?

We are a partnership in that reguard. I am the EC and he is a partner working as an Licensed apprentice.

Not to mention after a 48 hour shift at the firehouse Mules got him working another 30,must not want any gran kids.

Ha that's funny, he manages to get that covered too.......besides he works 24/on and 48/off...I just swing most of my hours to fit his schedule. Most of time it works out, not always.

[bradleyelectric]

Not to mention after a 48 hour shift at the firehouse Mules got him working another 30,must not want any gran kids.

I'm not concerned with his personal life. I'm just looking at the fact he is claiming a certain amount of overhead while he is claiming an employee as a subcontractor. Without the correct licenses this is not a legal arrangement. Without the correct insurances this is a mess. If this person gets hurt on a customers property the customer may be who gets sued. They may want to know this is what is taking place. Without paying the correct amount of taxes this is a cabinet candidate. Some may call people that work within this type of arrangement a trunk slammer.

[Mule]

I'm not concerned with his personal life. I'm just looking at the fact he is claiming a certain amount of overhead while he is claiming an employee as a subcontractor. Without the correct licenses this is not a legal arrangement. Without the correct insurances this is a mess. If this person gets hurt on a customers property the customer may be who gets sued. They may want to know this is what is taking place. Without paying the correct amount of taxes this is a cabinet candidate. Some may call people that work within this type of arrangement a trunk slammer.

as I said, we are in the process of getting away from this contractor arrangment. and Yes the license is the problem, and recieving work direction as stated.. and that's what we found out. The new arrangment is a partnership, not a sole-propieritor. Partnerships are pefectly legal as long as one person holds the EC license in Oklahoma. We are completely covered with liability and bond. We do qualify for a exemption for WC under Okla. law as (< 5 family members).

Call it what you want, but we dont have a trunk, nor do we slam things.....:grin: The problem with this arrangment is thats its unique to family and I cant hire outside help, unless I re-arrange legaly.

And I can assume that the rest of you stone throwers have a completely clean nose??..:grin:

[bradleyelectric]

as I said, we are in the process of getting away from this contractor arrangment. and Yes the license is the problem, and recieving work direction as stated.. and that's what we found out. The new arrangment is a partnership, not a sole-propieritor. Partnerships are pefectly legal as long as one person holds the EC license in Oklahoma. We are completely covered with liability and bond. We do qualify for a exemption for WC under Okla. law as (< 5 family members).

Call it what you want, but we dont have a trunk, nor do we slam things.....:grin: The problem with this arrangment is thats its unique to family and I cant hire outside help, unless I re-arrange legaly.

And I can assume that the rest of you have a completely clean nose??..:grin:

Ok, I can understand how the partnership/ insurance arrangement works. Only 1 of you needs to carry the masters license. You don't need to carry WC as a primary here either. I'm a corp, so I never looked into how a partnership would handle this. This is different than a partnership vs subcontractor arrangement. I understand you are moving to get "legal".

[Rewire]

as I said, we are in the process of getting away from this contractor arrangment. and Yes the license is the problem, and recieving work direction as stated.. and that's what we found out. The new arrangment is a partnership, not a sole-propieritor. Partnerships are pefectly legal as long as one person holds the EC license in Oklahoma. We are completely covered with liability and bond. We do qualify for a exemption for WC under Okla. law as (< 5 family members).

Call it what you want, but we dont have a trunk, nor do we slam things.....:grin: The problem with this arrangment is thats its unique to family and I cant hire outside help, unless I re-arrange legaly.

And I can assume that the rest of you stone throwers have a completely clean nose??..:grin:
I would recommend looking into a workmans comp policy for both partners.When I injured my shoulder it was on a job so my workmans comp covered what would have been a bankrupting medical bill,ambulance ride,emergency room,three hours of surgery, several visits to the orthopedic surgeon, rehab three times a week for a year.

[NolaTigaBait]

as I said, we are in the process of getting away from this contractor arrangment. and Yes the license is the problem, and recieving work direction as stated.. and that's what we found out. The new arrangment is a partnership, not a sole-propieritor. Partnerships are pefectly legal as long as one person holds the EC license in Oklahoma. We are completely covered with liability and bond. We do qualify for a exemption for WC under Okla. law as (< 5 family members).

Call it what you want, but we dont have a trunk, nor do we slam things.....:grin: The problem with this arrangment is thats its unique to family and I cant hire outside help, unless I re-arrange legaly.

And I can assume that the rest of you stone throwers have a completely clean nose??..:grin:


we all know you are a trunkslammer

[bradleyelectric]

The problem with this arrangment is thats its unique to family and I cant hire outside help, unless I re-arrange legaly.

And I can assume that the rest of you stone throwers have a completely clean nose??..:grin:

Can't you hire employees as a partnership? Have a 75% / 25% division of shares as a partnership? Just have WC on employees? I don't know as I never looked into partnership options. As primary here I have the option to wave WC on myself but have it on employees. I know I can issue shares of my corp., but never looked into the insurance coverage options for shareholders as I don't intend to distribute shares at this time.

[Mule]

I would recommend looking into a workmans comp policy for both partners.When I injured my shoulder it was on a job so my workmans comp covered what would have been a bankrupting medical bill,ambulance ride,emergency room,three hours of surgery, several visits to the orthopedic surgeon, rehab three times a week for a year.

I totaly agree, of course son in law is covered by short and long term disability through his job, but me, if injured I'd have to set in wheel chair on the job, so he could work..Yes, Im just stubborn as I've never had a WC claim after some 34 years of straight electrical work.....

we all know you are a trunkslammer
Good for you....:grin:

Can't you hire employees as a partnership? Have a 75% / 25% division of shares as a partnership? Just have WC on employees? I don't know as I never looked into partnership options. As primary here I have the option to wave WC on myself but have it on employees. I know I can issue shares of my corp., but never looked into the insurance coverage options for shareholders as I don't intend to distribute shares at this time.

Our accountant is working on this, but we caught her in the busy time of the year, and we're still waiting.....I dont have the particulars yet. Honestly our next move is my wife coming on board, which is another family member WC wise.
Im sure there is ways to hire employees as a partnership but, were just not to that point yet. But I often think about it.

Im getting closer to semi-retirement, so the plan is for the son in law to be near 50% parnter when he become JM. So he will incrementaly increase his partnership level over the next three years. He knows I will always have controlling intrest, but in the same breath he also knows I'll treat him right. And at that point if he doenst like it, he can go out on his own, but I want it to be real inviting to him to continue this arrangement. Hey, we can share the overhead cost.....duh...its a great arrangment I think, as long as I trust the quality of his work and business dealings, to protect my name and liability. which right now I fully trust him...

[BLACK4TRUCK]

we all know you are a trunkslammer

Who is WE?? You want to throw words out there, that is your business. I have not seen anything that says he is trying to be "Fly by night Electric" Nothing wrong with trying to be creative in your business approach. The IRS will be more than happy to set the record straight ;)

[Nick]

I believe about 1200 electricians and several hundred office employees. I lost count a long time ago.
Like RockyD I worked in Vegas about 15 years ago. It was on Treasure Island. There is nothing like it. That job had 400 electricians on it working 5 - 10's and alternating Saturdays.
One of those jobs up there just shut down last year. A couple Billion dollar project and they just sent everyone home right in the middle. Sine of the times.

[NolaTigaBait]

Who is WE?? You want to throw words out there, that is your business. I have not seen anything that says he is trying to be "Fly by night Electric" Nothing wrong with trying to be creative in your business approach. The IRS will be more than happy to set the record straight ;)


i was joking...bra

[Rewire]

I totaly agree, of course son in law is covered by short and long term disability through his job, but me, if injured I'd have to set in wheel chair on the job, so he could work..Yes, Im just stubborn as I've never had a WC claim after some 34 years of straight electrical work.....


.
I remember laying in th ER after they set my shoulder waiting fir the wife to come pick me up and thinking "how am I ever going to pay for this" .When I set up my WC I thought it was just for employees but thanks to my insurance guy he covered me also.I had the thirty year run with no WC claims also but like they say it only takes one time.

Many businesses and contractors are requireing WC even for one man bands.Getting a policy is not that expensive and the longer you have the policy accident free the cheaper your modifier which helpes when you do add employees.

[bradleyelectric]

Who is WE?? You want to throw words out there, that is your business. I have not seen anything that says he is trying to be "Fly by night Electric" Nothing wrong with trying to be creative in your business approach. The IRS will be more than happy to set the record straight ;)

That was me because he is a 1 man show with a part time employee that wasn't covered by workers comp. and he wasn't holding and paying taxes properly on this same employee. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to be creative with a business, but what he was doing is both illegal and can put eveyone in a very bad possition if there is ever an injury on the job. There are big differences in calling someone a subcontractor to get around real business expenses and hiring either an employee or a legal subcontractor.

I understand Mule is new and learning how to properly run a business and is dealing with how he visions the business to be long term. I also know I have been harsh on him on issues. Truth is I like him and believe he has a lot of potential as a contractor.

I think he has a decent grasp on how he wants to operate as a commercial service contractor. I also believe he may be in line with a lot of his thinking in that compacity. He may choose value his time higher at a later date. I believe he could rethink how he values his time with residetial service, but this doesn't seem to be his focus but is just fill work. Even being fill work it can be valued much higher.

I also see he is working on "getting legal" in terms of structure. This is where our thinking is different on how to handle legal structure but that is where I believe it is just a matter of choose. The way that he has expressed is a legal way to handle it and that is all that really matters.

[Mule]

I knew I liked that Ford tractor for a reason.........:smile:

[TwinCitySparky]

i was joking...bra

Than use a smiley face when making such an offensive statement.

Maybe you just forgot :rolleyes: