Pool wiring question

[bth0mas20]

A potential customer has a new above ground pool that will need a gfi outlet on a wood post for a pump. Because of the distance from the house he wants to know if I can pick up power from his shed that is only 15 ft away.

He has 2 12/2uf wires running in the same trench together that go to a 2 gang switch box and one circuit goes to outlets and the other to lights.

Can I use these wires to set a panel in the shed 120/240v with a ground rod. Then come out of their and install a service outlet on the outside of the shed and then go to the pump outlet by the pool. I will make sure this wire that leaves the panel to go to the pump has an insulated ground.

If this cant work what other option do I have to use one of the circuits by itself and go to the pump from the shed.

[chris kennedy]

He has 2 12/2uf wires

Can I use these wires to set a panel in the shed 120/240v with a ground rod.


You can use one.

310.4 Conductors in Parallel.
(A) General. Aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or copper conductors of size 1/0 AWG and larger, comprising each phase, polarity, neutral, or grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted to be connected in parallel (electrically joined at both ends).

[Rewire]

How many amps does the pump draw?

[bth0mas20]

the conductors do run in parallel and terminate at the same places on each end. One end is in the house panel and the other is in a panel in the shed that I would install. I need to use both wires to get the 120/240.

If I broke one of the circuits away and deadicated that to just the pool. I would still need to put a gr rod somewhere and tie into the plug somehow. Ive never done this or seen it done.

[bth0mas20]

Pump draws 12 amps. House is 100ft away.

[bradleyelectric]

the conductors do run in parallel and terminate at the same places on each end. One end is in the house panel and the other is in a panel in the shed that I would install. I need to use both wires to get the 120/240.

No. you can't

If I broke one of the circuits away and deadicated that to just the pool. I would still need to put a gr rod somewhere and tie into the plug somehow. Ive never done this or seen it done.

No, You wouldn't.

[bth0mas20]

so the final anwser is to trench a new circuit to the shed for the pool and shed....then retire in place the other 2 circuits so their all on the same circuit.
Trench a 10 wire uf from the house.

[chris kennedy]

No. you can't



No, You wouldn't.

Code references to follow.

[walkerj]

Shouldn't the pump require an insulated ground?

[Fulthrotl]

A potential customer has a new above ground pool that will need a gfi outlet on a wood post for a pump. Because of the distance from the house he wants to know if I can pick up power from his shed that is only 15 ft away.

He has 2 12/2uf wires running in the same trench together that go to a 2 gang switch box and one circuit goes to outlets and the other to lights.

Can I use these wires to set a panel in the shed 120/240v with a ground rod. Then come out of their and install a service outlet on the outside of the shed and then go to the pump outlet by the pool. I will make sure this wire that leaves the panel to go to the pump has an insulated ground.

If this cant work what other option do I have to use one of the circuits by itself and go to the pump from the shed.

above ground pool... i'll call it a 1 hp pump, except that you are saying it's
12 amps.... 120 volt at 12 amps is a lot closer to 2 hp. 746 watts is a hp.
you're double that.

why do you need 220? if you are pulling 12 amps on 220, something is
way wrong. also, you say you are providing a GFCI outlet, so it's cord
connected, right? that says 120 volts.

take one of the circuits, use it for the pool, and use the other one for the
shed. make sure the GFCI is a 20 amp one. use a proper hooded cover, that
is raintite with a cord plugged in. make sure you have a good ground all the
way back to the panel. use an ohmmeter to check.

now, i'm assuming there is no pool light in this deal.... i have seen aboveground
pools with lights, however, so i am asking. if there is a pool light, it MUST
be on it's own dedicated circuit. no yabuts.

you don't want to be driving extra ground rods here and there, without some
pretty good connection (read cadweld or similar) between them. article 250
will give you the rules, but you especially don't want the possibility of a ground
loop, as that can lead to a difference of potential, which is a bad thing around
water with people in it.

[bradleyelectric]

code references to follow.

300.3(b)

680.21(a)(4)

[bth0mas20]

above ground pool... i'll call it a 1 hp pump, except that you are saying it's
12 amps.... 120 volt at 12 amps is a lot closer to 2 hp. 746 watts is a hp.
you're double that.

why do you need 220? if you are pulling 12 amps on 220, something is
way wrong. also, you say you are providing a GFCI outlet, so it's cord
connected, right? that says 120 volts.

take one of the circuits, use it for the pool, and use the other one for the
shed. make sure the GFCI is a 20 amp one. use a proper hooded cover, that
is raintite with a cord plugged in. make sure you have a good ground all the
way back to the panel. use an ohmmeter to check.

now, i'm assuming there is no pool light in this deal.... i have seen aboveground
pools with lights, however, so i am asking. if there is a pool light, it MUST
be on it's own dedicated circuit. no yabuts.

you don't want to be driving extra ground rods here and there, without some
pretty good connection (read cadweld or similar) between them. article 250
will give you the rules, but you especially don't want the possibility of a ground
loop, as that can lead to a difference of potential, which is a bad thing around
water with people in it.

Its a 2hp pump. If I used one of the circuits for the pump it wouldnt be an insulated ground because its a 12-2. Are you saying thats ok and just take it to the outlet for the pump. Its rare that I get a pool to wire. Thanks for your help.

[bradleyelectric]

above ground pool. take one of the circuits, use it for the pool, and use the other one for the shed. make sure the GFCI is a 20 amp one. use a proper hooded cover, that is raintite with a cord plugged in. make sure you have a good ground all the way back to the panel. use an ohmmeter to check.

what he said.

[bradleyelectric]

Its a 2hp pump. If I used one of the circuits for the pump it wouldnt be an insulated ground because its a 12-2. Are you saying thats ok and just take it to the outlet for the pump. Its rare that I get a pool to wire. Thanks for your help.

I'm going to have to look at my 05 book to see exactly what changed.

[electricalperson]

why not just dig a trench put some 3/4 inch pvc, put a garden post with a twist lock receptacle if its cord and plug connected or install a 4x4 post with a switch and junction box. dont forget to bond it all properly also dont forget to put a gfci. i woudl put a gfci breaker.

[Fulthrotl]

Its a 2hp pump. If I used one of the circuits for the pump it wouldnt be an insulated ground because its a 12-2. Are you saying thats ok and just take it to the outlet for the pump. Its rare that I get a pool to wire. Thanks for your help.

you have UF cable. that is UL approved for general service. make ***sure***
that when you are done, you open up the panel, and put a wire on the ground
bus and run that wire over to where your new plug is, and measure continuity
on your installed ground with a good ohmmeter.
there is a code stipulation about resistance to ground,
but in this case, i'm talking less than one ohm. if that's good, put it all together,
close it up, light it up, and test it with an idiot plug with a ground
fault test button. don't depend on the test button on the device.

i'm fussy and anal, and i like the ideal suretest, cause it'll test a GFCI, and give
readings of the milliamps and milliseconds it took to trip the device under test.
however, it's pricey, and a $12 idiot plug will work just fine.

i'll be honest here. don't do this type of work without general liability insurance.
a $2m policy is about right, IMHO.

if anything bad ever happens, everyone from the pool cleaning service,
to the guy who brought dominoes to the house the week it happened WILL
get sued. it doesn't matter if the thing you worked on was the problem or not.
you WILL get sued. you will have to respond to the lawsuit. expect the cost
of the response to exceed $20,000. expect to get sued for in excess of $2M.
this is not theoretical, or abstract, or splitting hairs on my part. it's what
happened to me. and what i worked on wasn't what the forensic inspector
listed as the cause of death. i got sued for $2.5M anyway. it wasn't even
anything i got paid for. i was just there. the attorneys for the deceased sued
over 20 people for $2.5 million each.

hope this information helps.


randy

[bth0mas20]

Im sorry to hear thanks for the info

[220/221]

Shouldn't the pump require an insulated ground?

I believe that's for the pool light.

[walkerj]

I believe that's for the pool light.

680.21 A 1:wink:

Most pools I have seen were wired with romex sleeved in carflex:rolleyes:

[bgeorge]

It has been my experience and understanding that when wiring pools, you need to have an insulated grounding conductor from the main load center or sub-panel(provided that the sub-panel is fed with raceway, with an insulated grounding conductor. I normally put the rain-tight timeclock panels o/s by Intermatic. The bonding conductor for the inside of a forming shell of the wet-nich fixture for the pool must be an insulated #8 Cu, and can be solid OR stranded. The bonding conductor for the o/s of the forming shell must be a solid #8 Cu conductor. Both of the must be protected from corrosion from the elements by an approved and listed epoxy or potting kit.:smile:

[Fulthrotl]

680.21 A 1:wink:

Most pools I have seen were wired with romex sleeved in carflex:rolleyes:

excuse me, i'm gonna throw up now.

[peter d]

excuse me, i'm gonna throw up now.

Code issues aside, it's hard enough to get THHN in carflex, let alone romex. :confused:

[bgeorge]

LMAO. That is about as explicit as it gets.

[bradleyelectric]

It has been my experience and understanding that when wiring pools, you need to have an insulated grounding conductor from the main load center or sub-panel(provided that the sub-panel is fed with raceway, with an insulated grounding conductor. I normally put the rain-tight timeclock panels o/s by Intermatic. The bonding conductor for the inside of a forming shell of the wet-nich fixture for the pool must be an insulated #8 Cu, and can be solid OR stranded. The bonding conductor for the o/s of the forming shell must be a solid #8 Cu conductor. Both of the must be protected from corrosion from the elements by an approved and listed epoxy or potting kit.:smile:

That is correct for a 120v pool light. An above ground pool with out a pool light or with just a low voltage pool light is not nearly as elaborate.