barn wiring

[electriciangirl]

I'm looking at wiring a barn for the first time in many years. I'm planning on runnin MC and I know the boxes need to be farm safe/dust proof. Any recomendations on brand or type of box/plate? I just looked up one that was around 25.00 a pop and wondering if there's something better or if that is a normal price these days.

[TOOL_5150]

whats wrong with emt and bell boxes?

~Matt

[480sparky]

Or PVC? .......

[nakulak]

does 330.12 (4) (2005) allow for use of mc in agric bldg ? (isn't animal pee a corrosive ?)

[electriciangirl]

does 330.12 (4) (2005) allow for use of mc in agric bldg ? (isn't animal pee a corrosive ?)

547.5 (A) lists jacketed MC cable as an approved wiring method

[TOOL_5150]

547.5 (A) lists jacketed MC cable as an approved wiring method

You said MC, Not jacketed MC. :smile:

ANyway, whats wrong with pipe and wire?

~Matt

[electriciangirl]

My main quesion here is what type of box. I like to use MC. It's my preferred wiring method and that's what I choose to do. There's nothing wrong with pipe and wire. What about the boxes in a dusty, possibly corrosive environment.

[TOOL_5150]

My main quesion here is what type of box. I like to use MC. It's my preferred wiring method and that's what I choose to do. There's nothing wrong with pipe and wire. What about the boxes in a dusty, possibly corrosive environment.

Bell boxes. You can use FS type boxes as well, but they are going to be more expensive.

~Matt

[JacksonburgFarmer]

EMT and set screw fittings, standard boxes will be fine....UNLESS IT IS A HOG BARN....if it is a hog barn....it has to be plastic or stainless....steel will disappear at a high rate of speed....

Now a cattle barn or sheep barn or horse barn or hay barn....EMT is great....MC is good too....ROMEX IS A NO NO....even though people do it...it is not a good idea....standard 4 square steel boxes should be fine....I recomend flip covers for receps, and toggle covers for your light switches....other than that you will be in good shape.....yes livestock urine is corrosive....but unless you mount your conduit "in stream" you wont have to worry....if it is not a hog barn.....GOOD LUCK!

[electriciangirl]

Is there a consensus here then that a bell box will work and fs boxes are not necessarily needed? This is just a horse barn, no hogs.

[ItsHot]

Is there a consensus here then that a bell box will work and fs boxes are not necessarily needed? This is just a horse barn, no hogs. The animals don't care what kind of boxes you use!:D

[iMuse97]

Is there a consensus here then that a bell box will work and fs boxes are not necessarily needed? This is just a horse barn, no hogs.

I've done horse barns and have yet to see bell boxes. We're in horse country (south of Chicago) and did a stable for a guy for whom money was no object, (he had video and computer monitoring in the stalls) and still didn't use bell boxes. We did use sealed lighting fixtures, and we did have GFCI protection on almost everything, but EMT and 4x4s were standard.

[vinster888]

bell boxes with flip covers will be fine. :cool:

[ItsHot]

I wouldn't recommend mc on any of the drops in any horse stalls.

[electriciangirl]

So dust proof/water tight boxes are not required in a barn?

[TOOL_5150]

So dust proof/water tight boxes are not required in a barn?

nope

~Matt

[electriciangirl]

I wouldn't recommend mc on any of the drops in any horse stalls.

why no mc in horse stall? (I'm not planning on doing this, but why not?)

[ItsHot]

why no mc in horse stall? (I'm not planning on doing this, but why not?)Horses are bad to chew on anything in a stall ! If the barn is going to have"excessive" dust your concern about boxes needs addressing. But what is "excessive"??:confused:

[iMuse97]

why no mc in horse stall? (I'm not planning on doing this, but why not?)

some nervous horse do strange things. they probably can't chew through EMT but they could pull that MC right out of the fittings, etc. I always try to keep the electrical drops away from any place the animals regularly frequent. And strap, strap, strap.

[PetrosA]

It sounds like there are options for you, so it'll probably boil down to what the owner wants to spend (read, what the neighbor has). If they're calling it a "horse barn" you can probably go low budget ;) In this area, any decent horse stable is going to be super high dollar with radiant heat in the bathing bay and heat lamps in the stalls and either bell, fs boxes or interior walls finished and switches/recepts set back in wallcases with full generator backup. Then again, it's not uncommon to see hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of horse meat walking around some of the local stables ;)

[LarryFine]

EMT and set screw fittings, standard boxes will be fine....UNLESS IT IS A HOG BARN....if it is a hog barn....it has to be plastic or stainless....steel will disappear at a high rate of speed....They're not interested in the copper? 8-)

[TOOL_5150]

They're not interested in the copper? 8-)

those dang hogs are a weird bunch, arent they?

~Matt

[wawireguy]

Unless the walls are getting a finished surface I wouldn't use MC down to the boxes without checking with your inspector. In my local you would have to remove it and install EMT fromt he ceiling down or other damage resistant type of raceway.

[cowboyjwc]

I would agree with bell boxes, but if it's a horse barn, I wouldn't run MC, horses like to chew.

Like Peter we have one here in town where the barn cost $2M. You don't have to move the horses to wash them, every stall has a hose bib, floor drain and heat lamps and outlets for hair dryers and what not. But that was just the main barn, they also had a foal barn and a quantine barn. These people raised world class jumpers.

[ohm]

Is there a consensus here then that a bell box will work and fs boxes are not necessarily needed? This is just a horse barn, no hogs.

Did you say livestock? I believe the price of wiring just went way up.

If you search this Forum for "horse barns" and read art. 547 you will learn more than you ever wanted to know about: equipotential planes, site isolation devices, corrosion dust, wet/damp locations etc. etc.

Any chance the horse barn won't have horses in it?

[bpk]

You should check with your local inspector also. In my state (minnesota) they adopted some additions to the nec for agriculture wiring, like not allowing uf cable.

[nunu161]

I just wired a paddock (horse barn) and it was speced to use Cast FS boxes and emt with in use covers on the receptacles and gfci protection for all outlets. we were able to use mc for the lighting

Total project cost 5.2M

[vinster888]

as far as horses chewing you dont put anything in the stall less than 10' high or anywhere outside of the stall where a mouth can get to it from in the stall. outlets for fans and such are all up high. the conduit you use above 8' is by choice, below 8' is by subjection to physical damage. people dont clean that well in animal environments. so dust and cobwebs are everywhere. i personally dont like to open any barn installed 4 squares for 2 reasons. one is all the dust does get in the boxes. and you get that crap all over ya. second is the spiders and other small things that like to move in and become combustibles. i would pvc and bell box with w/p covers and sealed flourescents :wink:

[PetrosA]

I just wired a paddock (horse barn) and it was speced to use Cast FS boxes and emt with in use covers on the receptacles and gfci protection for all outlets. we were able to use mc for the lighting

Total project cost 5.2M

Were you required to use the in-use covers indoors? I would imagine they'd get bumped and broken a lot in a horse environment.

[hillbilly1]

I have always used pvc, I've been told by vet's that it takes less current to kill a cow or horse than a human. With EMT or MC mounted to wood, if there is any stray currents, an animal would complete the path to ground touching the metal conduit. The trip level of a GFCI would still be too high if the leakage was from a protected circuit. Leakage could also come from such devices as water heaters or well pumps that are not GFCI protected.

[nunu161]

Were you required to use the in-use covers indoors? I would imagine they'd get bumped and broken a lot in a horse environment.

the outlets were on top of the dividing block walls for the stalls. they speced in-use covers becuz everything is washed down daily

[ohm]

I have always used pvc, I've been told by vet's that it takes less current to kill a cow or horse than a human. With EMT or MC mounted to wood, if there is any stray currents, an animal would complete the path to ground touching the metal conduit. The trip level of a GFCI would still be too high if the leakage was from a protected circuit. Leakage could also come from such devices as water heaters or well pumps that are not GFCI protected.

And if the leakage doesn't kill them they will remember the shock and rear up and stomp if you try to get them near it again.

If it's a cow they will stop producing milk.

[LarryFine]

I have always used pvc, I've been told by vet's that it takes less current to kill a cow or horse than a human.
Possibly greater step potential due to a greater step.

[mivey]

Possibly greater step potential due to a greater step.Or more muscle tissue? I wonder if a hog is as sensitive? I have a file somewhere around here with animal and human resistance values, but I do recall the current travels better through the muscle.

[PetrosA]

Possibly greater step potential due to a greater step.

Or more muscle tissue? I wonder if a hog is as sensitive? I have a file somewhere around here with animal and human resistance values, but I do recall the current travels better through the muscle.

I think if we stood in some wet straw in our bare feet we'd get pretty close to the resistance value of a pig or a horse :wink: The other option would be to get dielectric soled boots for the livestock :grin:

[mivey]

I think if we stood in some wet straw in our bare feet we'd get pretty close to the resistance value of a pig or a horse :wink: The other option would be to get dielectric soled boots for the livestock :grin:Mr. Ed? :D