Your price is way high

[JohnME]

Followed a lead from a neighbor, his brother in law needed a new service. I went over, looked at it all, he then shows me all the material he has. Apparently another electrician was going to do the work 2 years ago and the owner wanted to buy all the material because he thought he could get a better price on it all through a local supply house.

At this point I am almost laughing. Anyways I check all the material and its all there right down to the straps for the SER cable.

I ask what happened to the other electrician and he tells me he no stopped being an electrician?!?!?

I told him he didnt need a new meter pan or ser cable up the side of the house as it looked pretty new. He said he already had all the materials to do it and it was $300 for everything and he couldnt return it, so we had to use everything. Apparently he thinks my labor is cheaper than materials.

I gave him a price of $500 to change it all out, 100A service, permited and all. This was my bottom dollar, and a great price, everyone here knows that- and honestly too cheap, or I thought.

I talked to my neighbor yesterday and he said that his brother in law told him I was way to high!

Give me a break! I even explained the permit process, power company hookup, and inspection process which all equates to a lot of lost time.

I just had to share this, I am tempted to call him and ask what he expected it to cost. From his emphasis about the cost of materials being $300 I can only expect he thought I would be lower than that.

Just felt like posting! Some people are way out of touch.

[360Youth]

Even at labor only I do not see it at less than $800-1000. It may not use up an entire day's worth of work, but you have to plan on it and therfore can not confidently schedule out the rest of the day and lose out on other income. I like to be available all the way through to power being restored in case something comes up. Some POCOs here do not like to turn mains back on.

I went to a customer yesterday to look at her property because we are planning a generator delivery. Our signed paperwork states that the generator is delivery only, no electrical included, so I asked her who her electrician was. She looked at me funny and said "I thought you were." Anyway I gave her a number off the top of my head ($1,000), knowing it was high but better to come down than have to tell her it would be more when I had time to really think about it. She freaked because of all the costs she already has associated with this generator. She said if I could do it $400 than that would be more reasonable. She is a nice lately and was much calmer by the time I left, but I have to bite my tongue when customer start telling me what our costs should be.

[brantmacga]

if you're anywhere near my area, i'll let you do my service changes. :)

[iMuse97]

Just felt like posting! Some people are way out of touch.

thanks! I get a kick out of that. Here's another one:

I did a panel-riser change-out (hot, no POCO disconnect-reconnect), and ran all new interconnected smoke alarms throughout the home & installed all req. GFCIs since these upgrades are required for service changes, was permitted and passed, gave a really good price for the whole thing, and the guy's wife had a cow--these are friends of mine--and says something like "I wish my husband made that kind of money." he's a chemical engineer. I got half the money from her; called him a week or two later and he gave me cash for the rest of it! All's well that ends well, I guess.

Your "bottom dollar" is less than my bottom dollar, but it all depends on the job, what issues and obstructions you're facing.

[TOOL_5150]

$500 is a durn steal. Stick to your guns.. that is a great price. Customers can be so dang thick headed.

~Matt

[TOOL_5150]

thanks! I get a kick out of that. Here's another one:

I did a panel-riser change-out (hot, no POCO disconnect-reconnect), and ran all new interconnected smoke alarms throughout the home & installed all req. GFCIs since these upgrades are required for service changes, was permitted and passed, gave a really good price for the whole thing, and the guy's wife had a cow--these are friends of mine--and says something like "I wish my husband made that kind of money." he's a chemical engineer. I got half the money from her; called him a week or two later and he gave me cash for the rest of it! All's well that ends well, I guess.

Your "bottom dollar" is less than my bottom dollar, but it all depends on the job, what issues and obstructions you're facing.


I would think a chemical engineer makes more money than an electrician. Anyway.. people :roll:

~Matt

[growler]

Followed a lead from a neighbor, his brother in law needed a new service. I went over, looked at it all, he then shows me all the material he has. Apparently another electrician was going to do the work 2 years ago.



Two years ago.... That's the big red flag...

When a customer has materials just laying around and they have already put the job off for two years that lets you know they are in no hurry and can wait for a sucker.

If his lights were off or his panel was smoking that would be a different story. Just quote a price and walk away. Make sure that any price quoted is only good for 30 days (or less, sale price is over).

[BLACK4TRUCK]

Rule #1.. never believe the story a HO tells me why he has all the parts

Rule #2.. NEVER come down in price once you quote a customer. It looks like you were trying to screw him the first time around.

Rule #3.. your time for a "free" estimate is ONLY free for the customer. It always costs you money and that cost must be figured into your estimate.

[JohnME]

When I heard he had all the materials I knew something was up. I am sure the last electrician left because this guy wouldnt pay fair pricing.

The funny thing is that he thinks the material is the expensive part of the equation.

He is moving out (going to rent this place out) and asked me to also quote on adding some new outlets up in the bedrooms. Why you may ask? Because he had them on hand and couldnt return them to the supply house so he had to use them!

I think the guy is just numb.

I get all ticked off when I give someone a great price and they think its too much money, I take it too personally, because to me, my work is who I am. Basically I take it as "what you do isnt worth the money". My thought is either they do not make much money (which isnt my problem) or they are just out of touch.

[brantmacga]

I get all ticked off when I give someone a great price and they think its too much money, I take it too personally, because to me, my work is who I am. Basically I take it as "what you do isnt worth the money". My thought is either they do not make much money (which isnt my problem) or they are just out of touch.

I wouldn't get too upset about it.

A lot of people can't afford the things they want.

Its like someone going into a car dealership offering $30k for a $45k vehicle, thinking that's all its worth and that the dealer is making way too much off it already. It happens in all businesses. I had a marketing teacher in HS that would try to negotiate deals with wal-mart, because the tag said 'suggested retail price'. he never succeeded though.

[roger3829]

That's less than what I would charge. I would have went with $1000 PLUS extra time/money if had had to go get missing materials to the job CORRECTLY and to CODE despite whatever materials he had becuase someone else told him that's what he needed.

[SmithBuilt]

I talked to my neighbor yesterday and he said that his brother in law told him I was way to high!


And his brother in law based that on what? Another estimate? Or maybe he's a part time electrician?



I get so upset when people think they know how much something should be. Really no one knows until they get an estimate. And as an uneducated customer you do not know if you have a good price until you get more than one estimate.


You give him a good price and someday he will realize that. It may not be until a couple of years after he hires a hack to install it but someday he will pay to have it done right.

[Ohmy]

I wouldn't get too upset about it.

A lot of people can't afford the things they want.

Its like someone going into a car dealership offering $30k for a $45k vehicle, thinking that's all its worth and that the dealer is making way too much off it already. It happens in all businesses. I had a marketing teacher in HS that would try to negotiate deals with wal-mart, because the tag said 'suggested retail price'. he never succeeded though.

Right On! You could offer me a new Bently for 1/2 price and I still couldn't afford it. Doesn't mean its not a great dea.

This is just another example of how the bad customers suck the life out of electricians....give the customer the boot and don't waste another minute thinking about it.

[wawireguy]

I wouldn't even waste your time with the phone call. Forget about it. Some people are so cheap they don't even appreciate a good deal on quality work.

[ceb58]

Right On! You could offer me a new Bently for 1/2 price and I still couldn't afford it. Doesn't mean its not a great dea.

This is just another example of how the bad customers suck the life out of electricians....give the customer the boot and don't waste another minute thinking about it.

I HAD a customer that I had done small jobs for on several occasions. He told me they were going to do a addition and ask me did I know a good contractor. I gave him a GC's number that I had done work for for several years. The contractor worked with them for almost two years on their plans. They would come up with an idea of what they wanted he would price it, too high. They would go back and redo the plans he would price it. It would come in under and they would go back and add more. You get the point. Finally they settled on a plan and money. I roughed in a unfinished bonus room, had to set a new sub panel and fish wire from basement to second floor for bonus room and new air handler with 8kw heat. My bill was $2600.00. He flipped out. The contractor and his guys hand dug the footing for the addition. The customer had lined up some south of the border guys to lay the block. He called them to pour the footing while they were there they told him they could do the whole job cheaper. The customer then tells me and the contractor he is going to let them do it because he could save a lot of money. He called me first of the week and wanted me to come back and would I call the contractor and see if he could come back. Seem the framing would not pass inspection and the inspector was not happy with unlicensed persons doing electrical work. I politely told him with all the money he saved he should hire some one else for the electrical and he could call the contractor himself. Have a nice day:grin:

[LarryFine]

I roughed in a unfinished bonus room, had to set a new sub panel and fish wire from basement to second floor for bonus room and new air handler with 8kw heat. I hope you got paid for what you did, at least.

[ceb58]

I hope you got paid for what you did, at least.

OH yea, got paid. Thought I was going to have to find the cheap SOB some oxygen while he was writing the check tho:D

[bradleyelectric]

$500. for a service change minus materials. No wander brother in law has problems with you. You keep charging those ridicules charges and the next thing you'll be taking some nice girl to Skateland and maybe to McDonalds if her parents will let her stay out that late on a Friday night.

[GUNNING]

Years ago I had someone that owned a hotel that wanted to change the boiler system to heat the rooms to individual heat and A/C units. He needed the power run to the rooms and a new service. He would supply the service equipment. After telling him he needed a new 2000 amp service he told me he was mad at the supply house because they wouldn't sell him the equipment for the same price as the OTHER contractor was going to supply it for and could I just hook up a couple of rooms first without the service upgrade?


DUH!

[wptski]

Even at labor only I do not see it at less than $800-1000. It may not use up an entire day's worth of work, but you have to plan on it and therfore can not confidently schedule out the rest of the day and lose out on other income. I like to be available all the way through to power being restored in case something comes up. Some POCOs here do not like to turn mains back on.

I went to a customer yesterday to look at her property because we are planning a generator delivery. Our signed paperwork states that the generator is delivery only, no electrical included, so I asked her who her electrician was. She looked at me funny and said "I thought you were." Anyway I gave her a number off the top of my head ($1,000), knowing it was high but better to come down than have to tell her it would be more when I had time to really think about it. She freaked because of all the costs she already has associated with this generator. She said if I could do it $400 than that would be more reasonable. She is a nice lately and was much calmer by the time I left, but I have to bite my tongue when customer start telling me what our costs should be.
People wonder why you charge that much because they may not even make that much in a week and I don't blame them!

[brian john]

Where are you from (note to John update profile include loaction)

Seems $1,200.00 at a minimum for here.

[bradleyelectric]

People wonder why you charge that much because they may not even make that much in a week and I don't blame them!

That would be because you and the people that would question that price have no idea what it costs to run a service business. I use to question it myself. I've just spent to much time going over the numbers to question it any more. It's just something I've had to come to accept.

[wptski]

That would be because you and the people that would question that price have no idea what it costs to run a service business. I use to question it myself. I've just spent to much time going over the numbers to question it any more. It's just something I've had to come to accept.
That could be, so what do you expect to make in profit per hour?

[emahler]

That could be, so what do you expect to make in profit per hour?

I'd be ecstatic to make 20% net for every hour. What does that mean?

[wptski]

I'd be ecstatic to make 20% net for every hour. What does that mean?
Means nothing to me, tell me in dollars.

[bradleyelectric]

That could be, so what do you expect to make in profit per hour?

What he said. I was pretty disappointed when I got my license and learned how to bid work to find out it wasn't some great money making scheme. Why are some electricians so much more money than others? Some are living off their wives or former employer’s benefits and are not actually profitable businesses.

[bradleyelectric]

Means nothing to me, tell me in dollars.

In dollars per manhour we could put that at around $7/hr hows that strike ya?

[emahler]

Means nothing to me, tell me in dollars.

Bad with math? That's $20 net for every $100 generated. So what does that mean?

[powerslave]

I've explained to people before what some of the main costs are in running a service business. It's always the advertising bit that people are the most incredulous about. When I tell them we spend around $1,500.00/month for yellow page ads alone they think I'm lying. They think an ad in the yellow pages is only a couple hundred a year! People have no idea how expensive things are nowadays. When you're a small shop and spend many thousands of dollars each month just to be in business people don't understand and still think you are pocketing all of the money.

It's real easy for ignorant people to call you a crook.

[ItsHot]

Price seems very low? Would you rather be rested and "broke", or tired and "broke"?:smile:

[bradleyelectric]

Price seems very low? Would you rather be rested and "broke", or tired and "broke"?:smile:

There's always wood to cut, weeds to pull, mulch to move.....

[emahler]

I've explained to people before what some of the main costs are in running a service business. It's always the advertising bit that people are the most incredulous about. When I tell them we spend around $1,500.00/month for yellow page ads alone they think I'm lying. They think an ad in the yellow pages is only a couple hundred a year! People have no idea how expensive things are nowadays. When you're a small shop and spend many thousands of dollars each month just to be in business people don't understand and still think you are pocketing all of the money.

It's real easy for ignorant people to call you a crook.

and $1500 a month isn't that much...I know 5 truck shops that are spending $15,000 - 20,000 a month to keep the calls coming in...because, again, you need 3-5 calls per day/truck to keep a service business rolling...

[powerslave]

and $1500 a month isn't that much...I know 5 truck shops that are spending $15,000 - 20,000 a month to keep the calls coming in...because, again, you need 3-5 calls per day/truck to keep a service business rolling...

Yeah, and they have a lot of nerve to charge their customers to cover that.:D

[electricguy]

There's always wood to cut, weeds to pull, mulch to move.....


I am so enjoying doing that today :)

[emahler]

I am so enjoying doing that today :)
good...when you're done, i'll fly you here to keep doing that:grin:

[wptski]

Bad with math? That's $20 net for every $100 generated. So what does that mean?
Still means nothing without a timeframe! A $100/day or $1000/day? It makes a difference.

[wptski]

In dollars per manhour we could put that at around $7/hr hows that strike ya?
That's very bad!

[bradleyelectric]

That's very bad!

well at $800/ day labor you'd be lucky to make that much profit.

[emahler]

Still means nothing without a timeframe! A $100/day or $1000/day? It makes a difference.

See that's the problem with this country, we don't teach our kids math.

The time frame has no bearing.
Should I make a higher % of profit if I can't generate work? And a lower % of profit because I can sell work?

[emahler]

well at $800/ day labor you'd be lucky to make that much profit.

Yep, considering industry avg is 2-3%

[cadpoint]

I only read the first ten post of this thread, why is it so surprising to anyone that a client is like this !

Why doesn't the home owner realize, how major this really is !
Granted they might or might not want to go with "work", OK but \at some price, well .... maybe.

It's not the aspect of what we do at a price but what they need to pay for to have something new! It's not a mixed bag the price is a price!

If you'd compare it to a HVAC refit or bust or a busted pipe or a plumbing upfit, sink, kitchen work, etc... etc... where would we sit in respects to paying the price for those items.

Someone might pay for something they want, and will argue for something they need! Again it gets to me, reading these type threads.

This always gets to me! :þ

[wptski]

See that's the problem with this country, we don't teach our kids math.

The time frame has no bearing.
Should I make a higher % of profit if I can't generate work? And a lower % of profit because I can sell work?
Are you a riddler? Sounds like a simple question, how much per hour do you make?

[emahler]

Are you a riddler? Sounds like a simple question, how much per hour do you make?

Some days $100, some days $2000. That's why dollar amounts don't matter. Because those $2000/hr days cost me more.

That's why I worry about percentages. What's the sense of generating $10k in a day, if there is no profit?

Though the sarcasm, due to you inability to follow along, is duly noted.

[bradleyelectric]

Some days $100, some days $2000. That's why dollar amounts don't matter. Because those $2000/hr days cost me more.

That's why I worry about percentages. What's the sense of generating $10k in a day, if there is no profit?

Though the sarcasm, due to you inability to follow along, is duly noted.

Look, you need to just spill it. You make $2000/ hr. There is no cost to making this much. Once you are an electrical contractor all you have to worry about it how much you can fleece your customers for. That is what people want to believe, and perception is reality. No one wants to face the fact that the guys that are charging the most are shooting at a goal of 16% net profit.

Some days you need to make a little more in a day to make up for the days you don't. To some people it is all about what are you making this moment. Truth is this moment isn't the long term goal. It isn't just the customer that is the problem with this perception. The guys that think they can live off making just enough on the good days are too.

[wptski]

Some days $100, some days $2000. That's why dollar amounts don't matter. Because those $2000/hr days cost me more.

That's why I worry about percentages. What's the sense of generating $10k in a day, if there is no profit?

Though the sarcasm, due to you inability to follow along, is duly noted.
I'm not sarcastic, just asking a question. Maybe another "way" to answer the question is what's on Line 37 of your 2008 1040 form? I don't expect an answer.

I retired on 4/1/08, my pension and social security totals $3526/month right now which is actually several hundred more than when I was working.

[emahler]

I'm not sarcastic, just asking a question. Maybe another "way" to answer the question is what's on Line 37 of your 2008 1040 form? I don't expect an answer.

I retired on 4/1/08, my pension and social security totals $3526/month right now which is actually several hundred more than when I was working.


my point being...just because I might have a $10,000 day at 20% NET, the next day it could get eaten up by a $100 day with -30% profit...

that's why the $ amounts do not matter...

you originally asked:
That could be, so what do you expect to make in profit per hour?and the truth is it doesn't matter...what matters is the percentage made over the course of a week, month or year...not a couple of hours in one day...

[wptski]

my point being...just because I might have a $10,000 day at 20% NET, the next day it could get eaten up by a $100 day with -30% profit...

that's why the $ amounts do not matter...

you originally asked:
and the truth is it doesn't matter...what matters is the percentage made over the course of a week, month or year...not a couple of hours in one day...
Answers like this make me sorry that I even posted in this thread! I give up.:rolleyes:

[emahler]

Answers like this make me sorry that I even posted in this thread! I give up.:rolleyes:

i'm still trying to understand your point....

[bradleyelectric]

i'm still trying to understand your point....

His point, I believe, is he was an hourly employee and doesn't know what it means to not be. He believes that if it takes you 6 hours to net $800 than you make $125/hr. The fact that if you do this type of work for a month and end up with a profit at the end of the month of 8% is out of grasp. It's a riddle that is unsolvable. Someone was there 6 hours/ $800= $125/hr That's what you feel you should make an hour. That's what he wants to hear. What you end up with as profit is an arbitrary figure that is meaningless. The fact that you would be elated if you made wages + $41.91 for the 6 hours someone was there is beyond his understanding.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[hardworkingstiff]

my point being...just because I might have a $10,000 day at 20% NET, the next day it could get eaten up by a $100 day with -30% profit...

that's why the $ amounts do not matter...

you originally asked:
and the truth is it doesn't matter...what matters is the percentage made over the course of a week, month or year...not a couple of hours in one day...

I was told Ben Franklin said "Take care of the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves".

[Rockyd]

100A service sight unseen, from "package" to installed service, labor only? Sight unseen - maybe $800 to $1200. Think about what your time is worth....already gave away two hours just talking to this "character", don't let the HO set your rates, your the EC. Walk if you need to. Your the first electrician who has even shown interest in two years, tomorrow remind him the price can only go up.

[emahler]

there should be a line item for your service pricing for "added value/never gonna get a chance to change this service again"

[Sparky555]

I don't understand why contractors low-ball services. It's one of the few things that homeowners and handymen rarely do.

[growler]

I don't understand why contractors low-ball services. It's one of the few things that homeowners and handymen rarely do.

Most contractors don't low ball service up-grades only a few that haven't learned how business works. In this area I can pretty much tell what the quoted prices are if I know which companies bid the job. All the real service companies start out at about 2K even on a 100 Amp and go up from there. Then you get the guys that got their license 6 months ago that go out there and bid $800-$1000 because they think they need to quote it cheap.

The longer a company has been in business the higher the price so either they have learned something or got greedy ( I think they learned something). :grin:


I did a couple of cheap up-grades when I first started because I didn't calculate the actual cost of the installation. I only used materials and labor and forgot the overhead ( big mistake ). It didn't take long to figure out why others were charging more.

[Ohmy]

$1200 seems really low...when we say service change does that mean "new panel, raiser, meter, breakers, grounding system, smokes, GFI's, permit, etc." or something just a meter?

[JohnJ0906]

$1200 seems really low...when we say service change does that mean "new panel, raiser, meter, breakers, grounding system, smokes, GFI's, permit, etc." or something just a meter?

I wouldn't consider smokes and GFCIs to be part of a service change, although those are always good items to upsell at the same time. ;)

[Ohmy]

I wouldn't consider smokes and GFCIs to be part of a service change, although those are always good items to upsell at the same time. ;)

Most jurisdictions in our area (Atlanta) are requiring smokes and GFI's if you are changing the service....of course, everywhere is different...even our area.