elevator disconnecting means

[electricalperson]

i installed a 100 amp 3 phase disconnect for an elevator and the elevator guy said the handle needs to be 18 inches away from the door.

it doesnt make sense to me since the elevator control room is for qualified people only

article 620 of the 2008 nec doesnt say anything about that.

the disconnect is to shut power off to the hydraulic pump and controls. i installed a seperate disconnect for the pit light and receptacle

[walkerj]

I have learned that the elevator guys have their own rules and are VERY picky.

Always ask them before mounting equipment.

As for your problem, I would ask the elevator guy:D

[LarryFine]

i installed a 100 amp 3 phase disconnect for an elevator and the elevator guy said the handle needs to be 18 inches away from the door.
He's no different than anyone else. Ask to see it in writing.

If he resents it, say it's to do it right, not to question him.

[Dolfan]

I have learned that the elevator guys have their own rules and are VERY picky.

Always ask them before mounting equipment.

As for your problem, I would ask the elevator guy:D

I agree with you. Some of them think there arm pits don't stink. The shaft is there domain. It might have something to do with there code.

[iwire]

i installed a 100 amp 3 phase disconnect for an elevator and the elevator guy said the handle needs to be 18 inches away from the door.

Your going to move it closer to the door or the elevator will not ever run.

Trust me on this.

Also the disconnect you must provide for the car lights has to be that close to the door as well.

You know, the two pole 30 amp fusible disconnect with means to lock it off .......... you did include that right? :D

it doesnt make sense to me since the elevator control room is for qualified people only

Not much does when you work with the elevator dudes.

[electricalperson]

Your going to move it closer to the door or the elevator will not ever run.

Trust me on this.

Also the disconnect you must provide for the car lights has to be that close to the door as well.

You know, the two pole 30 amp fusible disconnect with means to lock it off .......... you did include that right? :D



Not much does when you work with the elevator dudes.


they said the disconnect for the pit is ok where it is. its a 30 amp 2 pole fused disconnect.

the GC said the state has there own inspectors that inspect this stuff.

the disconnect is mounted 22 inches off the door and they want it 18 inches. i hate it when people make there own specs for stuff and dont tell anybody. i was never told about this until the room was sheetrocked and ready to power up.

[iwire]

they said the disconnect for the pit is ok where it is. its a 30 amp 2 pole fused disconnect.

Forget about the pit light, I have never seen a disco on that.

I am talking about the 120 volt single phase circuit that supplies the lights and fan in the moving cabin, that disconnect gets installed beside the motor disconnect.

i hate it when people make there own specs for stuff and don't tell anybody.

They are not making it up, it's in the elevator codes, I run into the same thing all over MA and RI without fail.

[walkerj]

they said the disconnect for the pit is ok where it is. its a 30 amp 2 pole fused disconnect.

the GC said the state has there own inspectors that inspect this stuff.

the disconnect is mounted 22 inches off the door and they want it 18 inches. i hate it when people make there own specs for stuff and dont tell anybody. i was never told about this until the room was sheetrocked and ready to power up.


You live and you learn...:smile:

Next time, I'm sure elevator equipment locations are going to be high on your list of questions before starting the job.

[Rewire]

I learned early that the elavator guy wins.

[electricalperson]

i wish we could act like the way those people do. demanding meaningless specs and not working until its done. i dont get it. whats the difference between the disconnect being 18 inches from the door or 24 inches from the door? its not an emergency disconnect. if they want an emergency disconnect then put a push button right next to the elevator and not behind a locked door.

what is the code book the elevator guys uses?

[peter d]

i wish we could act like the way those people do. demanding meaningless specs and not working until its done. i dont get it. whats the difference between the disconnect being 18 inches from the door or 24 inches from the door?

They're not "meaningless specs." They are codes just like the NEC.

[electricalperson]

They're not "meaningless specs." They are codes just like the NEC.

but why the 18 inches? i would like to see why that code is in there

[iwire]

but why the 18 inches? i would like to see why that code is in there


You don't see this as kind of obvious?

So you can always shut the equipment down before entering the room at all. Keep in mind that this is not a new rule and probably goes back to the days when open relays on slate boards where being installed not to mention exposed moving parts that can eat you.

http://www.empire-elevator.com/Modernization/1322%20Webster%20St/Original%20Controller.jpg

Granted now in new installations the moving parts are mostly guarded and the relays are now enclosed.

[ceb58]

I learned early that the elavator guy wins.

Not always. I had a elevator guy tell me the non-fusible disconnect I set was wrong. It was not lockable in the open position. When it was inspected by the Dept. of Labor ( they control inspections on elevators) he said it was fine It had the tab that a LOTO lock could be installed in after pulling the bar.

[electricalperson]

i am not having a good mike holt posting day. or a good day at work either. :confused:

[Karl H]

Bob is right you will be moving that disconnect or that elevator will not run.
I made the same mistake in 2000, moved the disconnect and made a point
to be present for the elevator inspection. The inspector was very friendly
and answered a lot of my questions without any signs of annoyance
unlike the "Elevator Guy" that failed his inspection, due to the flooring
of the elevator being a 1/2 an inch above the landing level. Good Times!

[Pierre C Belarge]

They're not "meaningless specs." They are codes just like the NEC.


This is so true. The codes they follow are no different than ours in respect to the fact that they are to be followed. Yes these guys can be slightly arrogant, but....
We have run into this too many times.
It goes something like this
EC
" Pierre, they want me to move my elevator disconnect, I can't find this in the code."

I respond, " it is not in our code, it is the elevator code."E

EC, " that is just stupid." :grin:

[electricalperson]

This is so true. The codes they follow are no different than ours in respect to the fact that they are to be followed. Yes these guys can be slightly arrogant, but....
We have run into this too many times.
It goes something like this
EC
" Pierre, they want me to move my elevator disconnect, I can't find this in the code."

I respond, " it is not in our code, it is the elevator code."E

EC, " that is just stupid." :grin:

maybe somebody needs to put it on our code too or have an FPN to refer to the elevator code book for more rules

[charlietuna]

It has to be reachable from the door.

[peter d]

maybe somebody needs to put it on our code too or have an FPN to refer to the elevator code book for more rules

Electricians need to deal with other codes besides the NEC all the time. It's just part of the job.

[Karl H]

Your really going to love the Energy Codes. Watts per Sq/ft, per task,
per catagory, per occupancy,per lighting control method, and don't
forget daylight areas and the additional controls for those areas. :smile:

[JAMAN]

i installed a 100 amp 3 phase disconnect for an elevator and the elevator guy said the handle needs to be 18 inches away from the door.

it doesnt make sense to me since the elevator control room is for qualified people only

article 620 of the 2008 nec doesnt say anything about that.

the disconnect is to shut power off to the hydraulic pump and controls. i installed a seperate disconnect for the pit light and receptacle

It's a requirement per the MA Elevator Code (524 CMR 17.34(2)). Here's a little snip, "The switch shall be located not more than 18" from the lock-jamb side of the entrance door and should not extend more than 5'-6" above the finished floor"

[bobsherwood]

This is what makes me mad. Here in Dallas Texas, after the annual inspection, the inspector wrote up that I have to change the safety switch to a fused disconnect. WHY??? Makes no sense! It's in his code that way but, gosh the circuit is already either fused or on a breaker... AND SIZED CORRECTLY! ???

[cpal]

I did my first elevator in 1970 fortunately the installer was present and made sure I was aware of the disconnect location pri to install.


That 18" rule has been around at least a few years :)

[LarryFine]

Someone needs to make a book titled "Elevator Wiring for Dummies."

[iwire]

This is what makes me mad. Here in Dallas Texas, after the annual inspection, the inspector wrote up that I have to change the safety switch to a fused disconnect. WHY??? Makes no sense! It's in his code that way but, gosh the circuit is already either fused or on a breaker... AND SIZED CORRECTLY! ???

Usually they are not really preferring fuses over breakers as much as wanting a 'visible break' disconnecting means.

Power companies ask for this as well for a PV system disconnecting means.

[charlietuna]

Elevator equipment requires a special rated fuse with fuse rejection clips as i remember--without a fused disconnect this would be hard to enforce. Elevator disconnects are a major problem in overheating contacts which we found during infrared inspections. If the disconnect is close to 80% of the amperage drawn by the equipment it is on it's way to failure...

[Davis9]

What happens when there is more than 1,2, or 3(or more) Elevators?

Just wondering aloud.

Tom:-?

Never mind I found it, they are to be grouped together as close as possible.

[Davis9]

Usually they are not really preferring fuses over breakers as much as wanting a 'visible break' disconnecting means.

Power companies ask for this as well for a PV system disconnecting means.

Circuit breakers are allowed in MA, just can't be instantaneous type and not opened by the FA automatically.

Tom

Just a tidbit of info.

[electricalperson]

where can i buy the MA elevator code? is it even worth buying?

i suppose the NEC cant put those codes in there because im dealing with massachusetts laws. sorry for bashing elevator codes just frustrated with that situation. i fixed it now and all is well :) just more experience for me thats all

[Davis9]

You can buy it at the State House Bookstore.

Here is some of it free.

Tom

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/524CMR17.pdf

[Pierre C Belarge]

They're not "meaningless specs." They are codes just like the NEC.

Someone needs to make a book titled "Elevator Wiring for Dummies."


OR

"Dummies Wiring Elevators"

:grin::grin::grin:

[electricalperson]

trust me im not a dummy just havnt wired many elevators

[slredmond]

You guys are pretty hard on Elevator guys. I am an Elevator Electrician in Maine and as we have to follow the NEC 2008 we have to also follow 17.1 2000 or 2005 (it just changed) as well as several Maine changes related to to location of disconnects and working space.


SL Redmond

[peter d]

trust me im not a dummy just havnt wired many elevators

Consider the mistake your cost of education.

[ericsherman37]

Someone needs to make a book titled "Elevator Wiring for Dummies."

I dunno about that... can you imagine an elevator wired up by a handyman?

[luckyshadow]

I always tell guys that your first elevator is your learning curve.
From there on you will know what to do, where to do it ,& when.
There really not difficult

[tywinter]

You can buy it at the State House Bookstore.

Here is some of it free.

Tom

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/524CMR17.pdf

Thanks...That's a useful document/referance.