I love getting high!

[480sparky]

Today was the perfect end to the week!

Get up and it's 55° out. Sun is rising. Jump in the truck, and head to the supply house. Pick up some #2 ACSR and wedge clamps, and stop and pick up a lift.

Service call for the day: HO had a short in the line 'twixt the pole and the house. He managed to locate it at one of the lowest points on the drop, so he installed a temporary fix. So I went out and replaced the line today.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/DSC_3339a.jpg

Yea, that's me up there!



http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/DSC_3368a.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/DSC_3361a.jpg



HO's temp fix:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/DSC_3362a.jpg


I'm not a big fan of linework, but little things like this I love......... fresh air.... sunshine..... out in the middle of nowhere...... working alone and doing my thing.................. and getting high!

[iwire]

Interesting, here that would be POCO work, if it's not POCO work and covered by the NEC ASCR is not a legal conductor.

[480sparky]

Interesting, here that would be POCO work, if it's not POCO work and covered by the NEC ASCR is not a legal conductor.

But I'm here, not there.http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/844.gif

[iwire]

But I'm here, not there.http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/844.gif


Same NEC, can you point out where the cable you used is covered by the NEC? :D

[480sparky]

Same NEC, can you point out where the cable you used is covered by the NEC? :D

Looks pretty covered to me! http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/character0308.gif

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/coveredbynec.jpg

[peter d]

Same NEC, can you point out where the cable you used is covered by the NEC? :D

Interesting point. I had not considered that the triplex cable is not covered by the NEC, but what could you use to do this job? :wink:

[don_resqcapt19]

Bob,
What about Article 396?

[iwire]

Interesting point. I had not considered that the triplex cable is not covered by the NEC,

Unless it is some sort if dual listed product it will not be UL listed and it will not be in Table 310.13 so you can't use it.


but what could you use to do this job? :wink:

I would tell the customer to call the POCO for a free repair. :D

[C3PO]

Same NEC, can you point out where the cable you used is covered by the NEC? :D

I thought that it was covered in article 396
Messenger-Supported Wiring

Am I missing something? :confused:

[iwire]

Bob,
What about Article 396?

Don. not sure what you mean, I don't see that 396 allows that ASCR for that application.

[mivey]

Interesting, here that would be POCO work, if it's not POCO work and covered by the NEC ASCR is not a legal conductor.Since we are out of options, it must be not POCO work and not covered by the NEC.

[iwire]

Since we are out of options, it must be not POCO work and not covered by the NEC.

Looks like these folks go without electricity. :wink:

[qcroanoke]

Interesting, here that would be POCO work, if it's not POCO work and covered by the NEC ASCR is not a legal conductor.

Same here.
From the meter in on laterals and from the top of the house on overheads is the owners.

[nakulak]

was there a switch on the pole or did you work it hot ?

[hurk27]

It seems this is the description of ASCR cable to me?

396.2 Definition.
Messenger Supported Wiring. An exposed wiring support system using a messenger wire to support insulated conductors by any one of the following:
(1) A messenger with rings and saddles for conductor support
(2) A messenger with a field-installed lashing material for conductor support
(3) Factory-assembled aerial cable
(4) Multiplex cables utilizing a bare conductor, factory assembled and twisted with one or more insulated conductors, such as duplex, triplex, or quadruplex type of construction

And this is in table 396.10(A)
Other factory-assembled, multiconductor control, signal, or power cables that are identified for the use
Note that this is the only cable in this table that doesn't have an article listed for reference?

[mivey]

Looks like these folks go without electricity. :wink:Are you saying you have never done work that was covered by the NESC, say ahead of the service point...like something that the utility required the customer to install? Wouldn't that qualify as "not POCO work and not covered by the NEC"?

[hurk27]

To me this looks like a common farm type service, with the metering at the pole by the garage and feeders feeding the different loads by aerial cable?

We have a few of these around here on farms

[Pierre C Belarge]

Actually, I believe that 310.8(C), (D) and 310.13, the second paragraph do permit the type of cable 480 installed.

[Pierre C Belarge]

480, if you ever get tired of electrical installations, you could take up photography.:cool:

[nunu161]

Looks pretty covered to me! http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/character0308.gif

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Site%20Photos/coveredbynec.jpg

HAHAHA Hilarious i laughed for like 10 minutes:D:cool:

[iwire]

Are you saying you have never done work that was covered by the NESC ............

It was a joke dog. :D

Back on topic, I seem to recall Bob Alexander and Charlie both mentioning ASCR is in a bit of no mans land as far as the NEC.

[iwire]

Actually, I believe that 310.8(C), (D)

If that is 'just' ASCR it is not listed so neither 310.8(C) or (D) will apply. ASCR will not comply with 310.11 specifically 310.11(A)(2)

I already mentioned if it was dual rated ....... say XHHW etc. all would be fine. :smile:


and 310.13, the second paragraph do permit the type of cable 480 installed.

Where can I find 'ASCR' in Table 310.13(A) to go along with that paragraph?

[iwire]

To me this looks like a common farm type service, with the metering at the pole by the garage and feeders feeding the different loads by aerial cable?

We have a few of these around here on farms


Now where did I say it is not commonly used? :D


I may have used some in my past. :smile:

[480sparky]

Well, to tell you the truth, the ACSR is the least of our worries.

The wedge clamps I used aren't listed either. And I didn't see a NRTL sticker on either that pole or the roof while I was there.

No amount of bathing will cleanse me now.

[Pierre C Belarge]

Well, to tell you the truth, the ACSR is the least of our worries.

The wedge clamps I used aren't listed either. And I didn't see a NRTL sticker on either that pole or the roof while I was there.


It seems you have the capability, why don't you just add them?;)

[chris kennedy]

No amount of bathing will cleanse me now.

I will suggest you give it a shot just the same.

[480sparky]

I will suggest you give it a shot just the same.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/_bathtime__by_Ellie_Muffin_Girl.gifhttp://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/smiley-chores036.gif http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/smiley-chores035.gif

[mivey]

It was a joke dog. :D

Back on topic, I seem to recall Bob Alexander and Charlie both mentioning ASCR is in a bit of no mans land as far as the NEC.Joke went over my head.:smile:

Reading your other posts, I guess we can tie the triplex up in an NEC knot, so why not just call this setup inside the POCO jurisdiction?

If we strung this past the service point, I guess we would have NEC issues. Now I'm trying to remember if any of the triplex I've seen in the plants were not going to additional service points...and the only ones that come to mind right now are the ones where the POCO may have donated some of the wire to the cause.

[chris kennedy]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/_bathtime__by_Ellie_Muffin_Girl.gifhttp://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/smiley-chores036.gif http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/smiley-chores035.gif


No motors, luminaires, TV's, switches, ect. in those pictures. Your NEC golden again pal.

[480sparky]

No motors, luminaires, TV's, switches, ect. in those pictures. Your NEC golden again pal.

So you missed the lack of the required 20a bath circuit and GFCI-protected receptacle, huh?

[don_resqcapt19]

If that is 'just' ASCR it is not listed so neither 310.8(C) or (D) will apply. ASCR will not comply with 310.11 specifically 310.11(A)(2)

I already mentioned if it was dual rated ....... say XHHW etc. all would be fine. :smile:




Where can I find 'ASCR' in Table 310.13(A) to go along with that paragraph?
I don't see why it has to be a type listed elsewhere in the code. From Table 396.10(A). (with no Article listed in the right hand column)
Other factory-assembled, multiconductor control, signal, or power cables that are identified for the useThe issue would be "identified for the use" as that can be read to require a listing, but it doesn't have to be read that way. It is my opinion that the fact that it is extensively used for this exact purpose makes it "identified for the use".
Identified (as applied to equipment). Recognizable as suitable for the specific purpose, function, use, environment, application, and so forth, where described in a particular Code requirement.
FPN: Some examples of ways to determine suitability of equipment for a specific purpose, environment, or application include investigations by a qualified testing laboratory (listing and labeling), an inspection agency, or other organizations concerned with product evaluation.

[Karl H]

I can't get past how funny post #5 was, I think I cracked a rib laughing
so hard!!! :D

Why weren't you wearing your "Bee-Suit" making the connection to
the line? :smile:

[480sparky]

..........Why weren't you wearing your "Bee-Suit" making the connection to the line? :smile:

You mean arc flash? No need... the line is dead.









Sorry.......de-energized.

[iwire]

I It is my opinion that the fact that it is extensively used for this exact purpose makes it "identified for the use".


Don, I have not seen any ASCR that complies with 310.11 and I see nothing that relives the requirements of 310.11.

[iMuse97]

I can't get past how funny post #5 was, I think I cracked a rib laughing
so hard!!! :D
:smile:

I'm with you. There's nothing like this forum for good entertainment on the first night of a holiday weekend. Stoke up the Barbee!!:smile: And a big thank you to all who have and still do stand up for our freedoms!!!

[Karl H]

You mean arc flash? No need... the line is dead.









Sorry.......de-energized.

I should have known better by now!:smile:

[iMuse97]

Don, I have not seen any ASCR that complies with 310.11 and I see nothing that relives the requirements of 310.11.

Does someone have a response to this man? I would like to see this to a resolution if there is one. I have installed this stuff on the load side of the meter often enough, and never gave it a second thought. Yes, Bob, I was going with the reason that we've always done it this way.

[hurk27]

In my opinion, it seems that Messenger Supported Wiring is such a distinct wiring, it has it's own article in the 300 section of the NEC would say to me it is its own wiring method. just like romex, AC, Etc...

Multiplex cables utilizing a bare conductor, factory assembled and twisted with one or more insulated conductors, such as duplex, triplex, or quadruplex type of construction, is clearly one of the accepted type allowed in this section. no where does it state this manufactured assembly must use a conductor listed in table 310.13(A) the same way 334 does not require the individual conductors in NM cable? because it is a cable assembly. this is why it's not there. and also this is why it has it's own article in the 300's of the NEC. it is a manufactured wireing method that is reconized by the NEC as a factory assembled cabl just like romex, AC, MC Etc....

I ask this where are the conductors of romex, AC, MC cables listed in the table 310.13(A)????

[hurk27]

Don, I have not seen any ASCR that complies with 310.11 and I see nothing that relives the requirements of 310.11.

I agree they have to be marked as in 310.11, and most of the stuff I have seen was, but where does 310.11 require it to be listed in table 310.13(A)?

[don_resqcapt19]

I agree they have to be marked as in 310.11, and most of the stuff I have seen was, but where does 310.11 require it to be listed in table 310.13(A)?
You have seen triplex marked with that info? I never have.

[hurk27]

You have seen triplex marked with that info? I never have.

yep I know, Tuesday out comes the camera, I know it's marked but not sure what it is:-? I have to admit, I never looked to see if it is XHHW or what ever, just remember seeing the size conductor on it. But we have a bunch of this stuff in our yard at work (yes we install allot of it), so I'm going to snap some pic's of it, and try to get the labeling on it. I know when we get it on a reel it has a paper tag on it, just never looked at the tag:rolleyes:

You know URD is not listed in table 310.13(A) either but we use it for allot of underground runs to accessory buildings, we just don't bring it inside.
If I remember right Charlie once said we can use URD but we just cant bring it into a building.?

[macmikeman]

The amazing thing is you went out when it was 55 deg. Around here that would be considered below the freezing point and potentially life threatining.

[ericsherman37]

The amazing thing is you went out when it was 55 deg. Around here that would be considered below the freezing point and potentially life threatining.

Nine times out of ten when I get to do bucket work it's 55 degrees out.... or less.... AND windy.... AND raining sideways.... AND usually there's a tall, steep cliff plunging into the raging Pacific Ocean somewhere uncomfortably close to the bucket truck.

And I have a tendency to smack my cold fingers with tools by accident. Worst... pain... ever.

[iwire]

If I remember right Charlie once said we can use URD but we just cant bring it into a building.?


No, that was what Charlie said about USE. (Which is in Table 310.13) but we can't use 'URD' for anything under the NEC (I understand it is done all the time)

XLPE is not a NEC insulation type. URD with XLPE on it and without USE on it is not permitted under the rules of the NEC.
I agree 100%. XLPE is cross linked polyethylene and USE is underground residential distribution. We use a lot of Type USE cable and most of it is XLPE and not duel rated or listed cable. :)

From here Direct Burial Conductor (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=112027&highlight=XLPE)

[iwire]

Yes, Bob, I was going with the reason that we've always done it this way.

LOL, admitting that is the first step. :D

[mivey]

yep I know, Tuesday out comes the camera, I know it's marked but not sure what it is:-? I have to admit, I never looked to see if it is XHHW or what ever, just remember seeing the size conductor on it. But we have a bunch of this stuff in our yard at work (yes we install allot of it), so I'm going to snap some pic's of it, and try to get the labeling on it. I know when we get it on a reel it has a paper tag on it, just never looked at the tag:rolleyes:

You know URD is not listed in table 310.13(A) either but we use it for allot of underground runs to accessory buildings, we just don't bring it inside.
If I remember right Charlie once said we can use URD but we just cant bring it into a building.?I'll try to remember and look in the utility barn next week but who knows what I'll be able to remember by next week.

I know it did not used to be marked but maybe they have changed...just haven't paid any attention.

[don_resqcapt19]

Bob,
I see your point that the unmarked triplex is a violation. I still see no issue and would never tag it if I was doing an inspection, assuming proper installation and size.

[saltydawg]

maybe its not really "ASCR" but actually AAC

[Dnkldorf]

I'd like to know what the homeowner does for a living?

He fixed his own "shorted" triplex?

I can't see the HO doing this live.

[Dnkldorf]

Nine times out of ten when I get to do bucket work it's 55 degrees out.... or less.... AND windy.... AND raining sideways....


Does your Insurance cover working ariel in winds?

[480sparky]

I'd like to know what the homeowner does for a living?

He fixed his own "shorted" triplex?

I can't see the HO doing this live.

The whole farm is on a pole with a disconnect that can shut everything down. So he didn't fix it live. He just shut it off, as he did when I was there restringing it.

[zappy]

480, if you ever get tired of electrical installations, you could take up photography.:cool:

Or be a comedian!

[Doug S.]

I was going to PM, but thought your reply might benefit others.
Maybe this is a HIGHjack? ;)

480,

I have been curious about those types of lifts for some time.

How do they trailer? ( Your van is a 3/4 ton? )

How is the setup time? ( Would it be worth it for lot lighting? )

How are they for rock and roll / in the wind? ( They look pretty sturdy? )


Thanks,
Doug S.

[480sparky]

I was going to PM, but thought your reply might benefit others.
Maybe this is a HIGHjack? ;).

Leave the comedy to the professionals, thank you very much.

I have been curious about those types of lifts for some time.

How do they trailer? ( Your van is a 3/4 ton? ).

No problems. Yes.. 3/4 ton

How is the setup time? ( Would it be worth it for lot lighting? ).

Ideal for lot lighting. They're designed more for flat level ground anyway. Most only take a minute or two to set up. This one in particular is self-leveling. Handier than those that aren't, but even the manual ones don't take too long once you get the hang of it.

How are they for rock and roll / in the wind? ( They look pretty sturdy? ).

The same as a bucket truck.

[mivey]

You have seen triplex marked with that info? I never have.I'll try to remember and look in the utility barn next week but who knows what I'll be able to remember by next week.

I know it did not used to be marked but maybe they have changed...just haven't paid any attention.I forgot to report back. Oddly enough, one spool of triplex was marked, one wasn't.