Not really 250ft. in a roll of romex? [Archive]

480sparky

07-01-2009, 10:05 PM

I know for sure that Im not going to unroll a roll of wire that says 250' on it, I seriously doubt a major manufacture is going to put a specific length on the package if it isnt correct, the dept. of weights and measures would be all over it.

One can always weigh them. If they all weigh the same, they're probably purty close to 250'. I can see once in a while one being a bit short, though.

LarryFine

07-01-2009, 10:13 PM

Think of how many more rolls they could make if they shorted each one by just 1'. That would be one extra roll for every 250.

stickboy1375

07-01-2009, 10:14 PM

Someone told me if you roll it out and measure it, that its like 20' short. Anyone heard of this?

So is a 1000' spool 80' short? Hmmm....

ItsHot

07-01-2009, 10:33 PM

Think of how many more rolls they could make if they shorted each one by just 1'. That would be one extra roll for every 250.
Larry you're sharp!:grin:

vinster888

07-01-2009, 10:33 PM

i figured that with the splices i find mid roll the darn things better be 250' :rolleyes:

hardworkingstiff

07-01-2009, 10:41 PM

I agree, but that is what I have always been told. Probablly not true :smile:

I've been told the same thing from different companies/people.

ItsHot

07-01-2009, 10:44 PM

You guys are going to make me start measuring my conduit!:-?

brian john

07-01-2009, 10:47 PM

If the advertise 250', to sell anything less would be false advertising and they could be sued. Remember Mickey D's 1/4 lb pre cooked weight and the lawsuit?

jdsmith

07-01-2009, 10:54 PM

I have always been told by wire manufacturers that they had a plus or minus ten percent tolerance

Wait until you order $950,000 worth of cable, mostly made to order at the factory. They quoted me a +10%/-0% tolerance. I refuse to accept anything short - I'm pulling anywhere from 300 ft to 1500 ft runs of anything from 3/C #12 up to 3/C #500, so a few feet short causes big problems. I ordered anywhere from 1,200 ft to 12,000 ft of cable per reel. About half of my 65 reel order (47 miles of cable) came in at exactly +10%, the other half came in at the exact length I ordered or plus a few feet. Basically the terms and conditions allow the manufacturer to increase their sales by 10% if they're in the mood to do it! Next time I place a big wire order I'm specifying +10 feet/-0 feet.

The fact that a bunch of my reels came in exactly 10% over really bugs me - if they can get that close, why not send me the exact number I ordered? Just one more way they're invented to screw the customer, and the distributors and manufacturers act like it's perfectly normal to have T&C's that allow them to increase sales by 10% at their discretion!

dbuckley

07-02-2009, 12:28 AM

Our Romex equivalent cable here in NZ ("TPS") is has the length from end of cable printed on it every metre. So you can see when you take the first pull off the reel that it isn't short. And you know how much each run has used without lifting a measure, and know exactly whats left on the reel. All damned handy.

And the 100m drum tends to have pretty much exactly 100m on it.

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 12:54 AM

wptski

07-02-2009, 11:48 AM

I have 2 fluke ts100s which is a tdr wire length meter. You just clip the leads on any 2 conductors in the roll punch in the adjustment factor and it will give you an acurate length of a coil of wire.
I have a AEMC Graphical TDR which will work perfectly on a extension cord, say 100' long once you set the VOP on a known lenght. I've played with Romex and always get mixed results. I've read the shape of the cable matters, round works well but flat like Romes doesn't.

What VOP are you using for Romex? You can find the VOP for most anything else online but not Romex type cable.

nhfire77

07-02-2009, 12:03 PM

I have a AEMC Graphical TDR which will work perfectly on a extension cord, say 100' long once you set the VOP on a known lenght. I've played with Romex and always get mixed results. I've read the shape of the cable matters, round works well but flat like Romes doesn't.

What VOP are you using for Romex? You can find the VOP for most anything else online but not Romex type cable.

My Psiber Cable brand TDR has 14/2, 12/2, 14/3, 12/3 NM preprogrammed in it.

charlietuna

07-02-2009, 12:11 PM

We had a job that required 50 control wires between some machinery and the distance was 480 feet. We set up the wire, all new spools and seven out of the 50 were too short. Makes you wonder???

drbond24

07-02-2009, 02:12 PM

Wait until you order $950,000 worth of cable, mostly made to order at the factory. They quoted me a +10%/-0% tolerance. I refuse to accept anything short - I'm pulling anywhere from 300 ft to 1500 ft runs of anything from 3/C #12 up to 3/C #500, so a few feet short causes big problems. I ordered anywhere from 1,200 ft to 12,000 ft of cable per reel. About half of my 65 reel order (47 miles of cable) came in at exactly +10%, the other half came in at the exact length I ordered or plus a few feet. Basically the terms and conditions allow the manufacturer to increase their sales by 10% if they're in the mood to do it! Next time I place a big wire order I'm specifying +10 feet/-0 feet.

The fact that a bunch of my reels came in exactly 10% over really bugs me - if they can get that close, why not send me the exact number I ordered? Just one more way they're invented to screw the customer, and the distributors and manufacturers act like it's perfectly normal to have T&C's that allow them to increase sales by 10% at their discretion!

+10%/-0% was normal at the wire manufacturer I worked at. Obviously, a piece of wire that is even an inch too short is useless so they have to be at least as long as you specify, but there is the possibility that they will send you more than you wanted and charge you for it. Their measuring devices could easily be off by a few feet and they always add a few feet to avoid customers that cut it too close with what they ordered (its always the manufacturers fault if the cable is too short, even if it was ordered that way :)), but if you got long reels that were exactly 10% too long then you probably have a reason to be aggravated. :cool:

iwire

07-02-2009, 02:17 PM

Larry you're sharp!:grin:

Let it not be said that Larry overlooks the obvious. :grin:

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 10:33 PM

We had a job that required 50 control wires between some machinery and the distance was 480 feet. We set up the wire, all new spools and seven out of the 50 were too short. Makes you wonder??? I was always taught that 500 foot spools are always short. I have found this to be true.

480sparky

07-02-2009, 10:35 PM

........... I have found this to be true.

Do tell.http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/HoltBlueDot.jpg

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 10:38 PM

I have a AEMC Graphical TDR which will work perfectly on a extension cord, say 100' long once you set the VOP on a known lenght. I've played with Romex and always get mixed results. I've read the shape of the cable matters, round works well but flat like Romes doesn't.

What VOP are you using for Romex? You can find the VOP for most anything else online but not Romex type cable.

VOP is 71 for romex. I have had good luck with this meter

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 10:45 PM

Do tell.http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/HoltBlueDot.jpg

Many moons ago when I was just a calf a bigshot foreman told me dont count on 500' reels of thhn 12 wire to be 500' they are always short so if you have 4 runs 125' long dont just even up 4 lengths because they will be short. Over MANY years of testing this theory I have found it to be true. Go test it yourself if you dont believe report back with your mad results. (glove slapping sound)

480sparky

07-02-2009, 10:49 PM

Many moons ago when I was just a calf a bigshot foreman told me dont count on 500' reels of thhn 12 wire to be 500' they are always short so if you have 4 runs 125' long dont just even up 4 lengths because they will be short. Over MANY years of testing this theory I have found it to be true. Go test it yourself if you dont believe report back with your mad results. (glove slapping sound)

So in other words, when you've pulled wire in all these years, you measure every inch of it as you go?

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 10:56 PM

So in other words, when you've pulled wire in all these years, you measure every inch of it as you go?
No but I will never count on a 500'spool being longer than 450 because the labor costs are much more than the material costs.

480sparky

07-02-2009, 10:59 PM

No but I will never count on a 500'spool being longer than 450 because the labor costs are much more than the material costs.

So you just assume they're short, and end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy.

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 11:11 PM

So you just assume they're short, and end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy. No that is not true but if you need to be a spin artist to make yourself happy I will say yes.

480sparky

07-02-2009, 11:13 PM

No that is not true but if you need to be a spin artist to make yourself happy I will say yes.

So far, you've stated you were told 500' spools were short, you believed it, but never actually verified it.

Oh wait, you said "Over MANY years of testing this theory I have found it to be true".

Using what method?

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 11:20 PM

So far, you've stated you were told 500' spools were short, you believed it, but never actually verified it.

Oh wait, you said

Using what method? Measurement using feet and inches. And as usual you misquoted what I posted was I have found said reels to be short on occasion. My opinion which I am solely entitled to is that I have found many 500' reels to be short on the footage. My point is for everyone who works in the trade and reading this post is to verify it for yourself , That includes you and I dont think you have pulled any wire in the last half hour so call back when you have tried it for yourself.

quogueelectric

07-02-2009, 11:26 PM

We had a job that required 50 control wires between some machinery and the distance was 480 feet. We set up the wire, all new spools and seven out of the 50 were too short. Makes you wonder???
Gee I found someone who actually agrees for once. Why dont you ask charlie what model ruler he used??

480sparky

07-02-2009, 11:28 PM

Measurement using feet and inches. And as usual you misquoted what I posted was I have found said reels to be short on occasion. My opinion which I am solely entitled to is that I have found many 500' reels to be short on the footage. My point is for everyone who works in the trade and reading this post is to verify it for yourself , That includes you and I dont think you have pulled any wire in the last half hour so call back when you have tried it for yourself.

Not sure how I misquoted you when I just copied and pasted it. Maye my computer has a bug in it that does that sometimes.

You say you have verified 500' spools to be short.

NOW you say you've found them 'short on occasion'.

All I'm asking for is your method of determining how you found the spool to be short.

You say you measure them using feet and inches. Those are units of measure. I'm asking :What device, contraption, machine, contricance, instrument, implement, gadget or tool, as well as method, manner, formula, process, technique or fashion do you use to ARRIVE with the net result which is EXPRESSED in feet and inches?

LarryFine

07-03-2009, 12:43 AM

So you just assume they're short, and end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy.Either that or he ends up with a pile of 50' remnants.

quogueelectric

07-03-2009, 01:01 AM

Not sure how I misquoted you when I just copied and pasted it. Maye my computer has a bug in it that does that sometimes.

You say you have verified 500' spools to be short.

NOW you say you've found them 'short on occasion'.

All I'm asking for is your method of determining how you found the spool to be short.

You say you measure them using feet and inches. Those are units of measure. I'm asking :What device, contraption, machine, contricance, instrument, implement, gadget or tool, as well as method, manner, formula, process, technique or fashion do you use to ARRIVE with the net result which is EXPRESSED in feet and inches? I am not wasting another keystroke on this nonsense.

zappy

07-03-2009, 06:43 PM

I am not wasting another keystroke on this nonsense.

Ahhh... man... just when it was gettin good.:grin:

480sparky

07-03-2009, 06:52 PM

Ahhh... man... just when it was gettin good.:grin:

Yea. I was kinda hoping to learn something.

It must be a national security threat to release that information to the public. http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/480sparky/Emoticons/smiley_bodyguard.gif

iwire

07-03-2009, 07:20 PM

Yea. I was kinda hoping to learn something.

I think many of us learned something. :rolleyes:

480sparky

07-03-2009, 07:39 PM

I think many of us learned something. :rolleyes:

But I wanted to know the super-secret 'Conductor Measuring System'.

electricalperson

07-03-2009, 08:29 PM

i think a good way to verify this is to measure out 500feet in a big parking lot or something and unroll a 500 foot spool of wire. the truth will soon be known using this method.

electricalperson

07-03-2009, 08:31 PM

But I wanted to know the super-secret 'Conductor Measuring System'.

use one of these http://www.shoplet.com/office/plimages/Long-Tape-Measure-1-8-Graduations-100-ft-Yellow_130641.jpg

iwire

07-03-2009, 08:32 PM

But I wanted to know the super-secret 'Conductor Measuring System'.

Oh, I thought you where just trying to be pertinacious.:rolleyes:

electricalperson

07-03-2009, 08:41 PM

Oh, I thought you where just trying to be pertinacious.:rolleyes:

i had to look that word up:grin:

per⋅ti⋅na⋅cious /ˌpɜrtnˈeɪʃəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pur-tn-ey-shuhs] Show IPA
Use pertinacious in a Sentence
–adjective 1. holding tenaciously to a purpose, course of action, or opinion; resolute.
2. stubborn or obstinate.
3. extremely or objectionably persistent: a pertinacious salesman from whom I could not escape.

Flex

07-03-2009, 08:42 PM

i had to look that word up:grin:

per⋅ti⋅na⋅cious /ˌpɜrtnˈeɪʃəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pur-tn-ey-shuhs] Show IPA
Use pertinacious in a Sentence
–adjective 1. holding tenaciously to a purpose, course of action, or opinion; resolute.
2. stubborn or obstinate.
3. extremely or objectionably persistent: a pertinacious salesman from whom I could not escape.

just googled it myself

chris kennedy

07-03-2009, 08:52 PM

iwire

07-03-2009, 08:56 PM

As did I. Who would have figured Bob as an English major that needs algebra lessons.:rolleyes:

Google is everyones friend.

Flex

07-03-2009, 09:06 PM

Maybe the romex is the right length and the tape measure is wrong.

mivey

07-03-2009, 09:18 PM

As did I. Who would have figured Bob as an English major that needs algebra lessons.:rolleyes:He just watches too much O'Reilly Factor.

Flex

07-03-2009, 09:22 PM

He just watches too much O'Reilly Factor.

haha dont be persnickety

mivey

07-03-2009, 09:31 PM

But I wanted to know the super-secret 'Conductor Measuring System'.How about:
http://www.abtekcontrols.com/Principals/trumeter/Products/2600/main.htm
or
http://www.taymer.com/html/lr100_simple_wire_length_measu.html
and be sure to read
http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Publications/upload/5-2.pdf

iwire

07-03-2009, 10:11 PM

He just watches too much O'Reilly Factor.

That could not be father from the truth. He is one of the few people I actually wish harm would come to. :grin:

480sparky

07-03-2009, 11:02 PM

How about:
http://www.abtekcontrols.com/Principals/trumeter/Products/2600/main.htm (http://www.abtekcontrols.com/Principals/trumeter/Products/2600/main.htm)
or
http://www.taymer.com/html/lr100_simple_wire_length_measu.html (http://www.taymer.com/html/lr100_simple_wire_length_measu.html)
and be sure to read
http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Publications/upload/5-2.pdf (http://ts.nist.gov/WeightsAndMeasures/Publications/upload/5-2.pdf)

Those things have been around longer than I have, and I'm older than dirt.

Maybe the romex is the right length and the tape measure is wrong.

Or the raceway. Maybe 10' sticks of EMT are actually 125" long.

quogueelectric

07-04-2009, 01:47 AM

I guess being abusive to forum members is selectively enforced around here.

petey_c

07-04-2009, 07:28 AM

brian john, If they advertise 250', to sell anything less would be false advertising and they could be sued. Remember Mickey D's 1/4 lb pre cooked weight and the lawsuit? Tell that to the people who make lumber.. 2X4s = 1 5/8" X 3 5/8", 1/2" plywood actually 15/32", etc. The city of NY recently closed 250 gas pumps because they were "mis-calibrated". Off by a penny a gallon for 5 - 10,000 gallons/day adds up and for some reason, it's not usually in the customer's favo(u)r.... Off to work now. Hope everybody has a safe and Happy Fourth of July. pete

wptski

07-04-2009, 09:46 AM

iwire

07-04-2009, 10:15 AM

I'm sure this isn't this isn't the first time that you noticed this? Comments by some are allowed, where others get deleted! I wouldn't be surprised if this one gets deleted.

How would you do it?

Would you just delete everything or would you delete nothing even though the owner of the forum has asked you to moderate the forum?

For what it's worth I went and doubled checked and not one person has reported a single post in this thread. We mention time and time again if anyone has a problem with a thread or post ........... notify us ........:smile:

At the top right of every post (except your own) is this http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/buttons/report.gif click on it and you get to send your concerns to every moderators email. You can also use it to report a moderators post if you have a problem with a mods post.

roger

07-04-2009, 10:36 AM

I guess being abusive to forum members is selectively enforced around here.

I'm sure this isn't this isn't the first time that you noticed this? Comments by some are allowed, where others get deleted! I wouldn't be surprised if this one gets deleted.

I agree, that O'Reilly factor thing was uncalled for, but Bob didn't cry foul did he? :grin:

I read the whole thread and don't see where anybody has been abused.

If challenging a statement is abuse, then there is and will continue to be abuse. That being the case, I would say we have all been abused here and you might as well get used to it. :roll:

Roger

wptski

07-04-2009, 10:43 AM

How would you do it?

Would you just delete everything or would you delete nothing even though the owner of the forum has asked you to moderate the forum?

For what it's worth I went and doubled checked and not one person has reported a single post in this thread. We mention time and time again if anyone has a problem with a thread or post ........... notify us ........:smile:

At the top right of every post (except your own) is this http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/buttons/report.gif click on it and you get to send your concerns to every moderators email. You can also use it to report a moderators post if you have a problem with a mods post.
It's pretty obvious that "quogueelectric" is being made fun of in this thread but maybe not to you and others that joined in!

Instead of complaining, "quogueelectric" made a comment of about the double-standard in this forum.

iwire

07-04-2009, 10:52 AM

It's pretty obvious that "quogueelectric" is being made fun of in this thread but maybe not to you and others that joined in!

Here is what I see.

quogueelectric made a statement, 480Sparky challenged it and quogueelectric did not seem to answer.

I personally think 480Sparky was being a bit if a PITA but I did not see him calling anyone names.

Instead of complaining, "quogueelectric" made a comment of about the double-standard in this forum.

Again, if you see this 'double standard' in action use the report post button.

But you still did not answer the question I asked, how would you do it? :smile:

wptski

07-04-2009, 11:00 AM

I agree, that O'Reilly factor thing was uncalled for, but Bob didn't cry foul did he? :grin:

I read the whole thread and don't see where anybody has been abused.

If challenging a statement is abuse, then there is and will continue to be abuse. That being the case, I would say we have all been abused here and you might as well get used to it. :roll:

Roger
Abused might be a bit strong word to use but I can clearly see his point. Some people don't have as thick a skin as others do.

I have actually seen forums where more actual abuse is allowed than this one!

realolman

07-04-2009, 11:11 AM

I think trying to get 4 pieces 125' by unrolling an entire 500' roll of #12 thhn and trying to double it up twice seems like a bad idea from the get go; even if the roll was 510' long...

I think maybe that's one reason the cow got some flack.

They'd find my skeleton wound up in a ball of wire.:smile:

I'd get four rolls of different colored thhn.

It is so much nicer to pull the wire off the rolls and cut it exactly to length.

... or if I really, really had to; measure off 125' , pull each piece off individually, and tie some sort of weight to it so it couldn't coil back up, and pull the last piece directly off the roll...

in the worst case I'd only have the last piece that would be too short instead of all four.... and then just on one end :).

You guys are going to make me start measuring my conduit!:confused:
Why would you want to do that? It usually ends up somewhere within ten feet of where you wanted it... just cut off what you don't need.;):)

wptski

07-04-2009, 11:12 AM

Again, if you see this 'double standard' in action use the report post button.

But you still did not answer the question I asked, how would you do it? :smile:
That's simple, treat "everybody" the same! That's something that's not done here at all.

realolman

07-04-2009, 11:26 AM

That's simple, treat "everybody" the same! That's something that's not done here at all.

I think that's somewhat true, but I also think that when I get clobbered the worst, is when I make some sort of comment that I haven't thought through very well, that turns out to be not very plausible....

At that point I think it would probably be a better idea to stop trying to defend it, and just admit a mistake... or just don't say nuthin'.

Anybody want to argue NFPA 70E?:wink:

iwire

07-04-2009, 11:32 AM

That's simple, treat "everybody" the same! That's something that's not done here at all.

Can you give an example of this?

I am not complaining, I volunteered to be a mod, but it is not as easy as you make it sound.

Every time ....... absolutely every time, a post is deleted or edited it upsets at least one person, usually more. There is no way to moderate without people feeling slighted or picked on.

wptski

07-04-2009, 12:55 PM

Can you give an example of this?

I am not complaining, I volunteered to be a mod, but it is not as easy as you make it sound.

Every time ....... absolutely every time, a post is deleted or edited it upsets at least one person, usually more. There is no way to moderate without people feeling slighted or picked on.
Yeah, I had a problem searching for the thread as I remember the posts and the user but not the thread title. Their posts were deleted and they commented about being deleted but now that has been deleted also!

This thread: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=115402. The user "76nemo" thought that it might be a DIY'r and commented so which was deleted as was his comment about being deleted! I don't think "everyone" else in this forum would have been deleted as they were.

iwire

07-04-2009, 01:11 PM

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=115402. The user "76nemo" thought that it might be a DIY'r and commented so which was deleted as was his comment about being deleted! I don't think "everyone" else in this forum would have been deleted as they were.

Yes, they would have been, we delete many posts from members questioning other members right to post here.

That is why we actually have had a sticky about that very issue since Aug 07. This 'sticky' thread is right in the front of the NEC forum which is busiest forum at this site. Check out the second post in this thread.

Read Before Posting: Forum Rules / Treatment of New Members (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=81328)

wptski

07-04-2009, 01:55 PM

Yes, they would have been, we delete many posts from members questioning other members right to post here.

That is why we actually have had a sticky about that very issue since Aug 07. This 'sticky' thread is right in the front of the NEC forum which is busiest forum at this site. Check out the second post in this thread.

Read Before Posting: Forum Rules / Treatment of New Members (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=81328)
DIY'r posts aren't allowed, correct? If the user thought that it was a DIY'r post, what was the point of deleting it then?

roger

07-04-2009, 02:07 PM

DIY'r posts aren't allowed, correct? If the user thought that it was a DIY'r post, what was the point of deleting it then?

Before a judgment is made the member should check a new users profile, and in this case, the OP's profile says he is an EC so he deserves the benefit of being treated as such. If as time goes by, the new users posts continue to look suspect, then bring your concerns to a moderator.

Roger

iwire

07-04-2009, 02:15 PM

DIY'r posts aren't allowed, correct? If the user thought that it was a DIY'r post, what was the point of deleting it then?

Did you even read the post I linked to? :grin:

1) All new member posts that you can see have already been looked over and approved by a moderator.

2) If any new poster is subject to ridicule or have their right to post here questioned then that will without a doubt scare some people from posting at all .... even ones that are not DIYs. We want people to feel comfortable about posting.

3) As Roger has pointed out as time goes on we may change our minds and decided someone that we approved is in fact over their head. In that case we handle it privately via PMs or emails. We do not try to publicly humiliate them. (We save that for established posters that put their foot in their mouth ;))

Again if you see a thread that you feel there is a problem with report it to us privately using the report a post button or send one of us a PM. There is no need to post it on the open forum and even if you do there is no guarantee any of the mods will see it.

I know I want to be fair and I fully believe the other mods want to be fair.

Flex

07-04-2009, 02:16 PM

Or the raceway. Maybe 10' sticks of EMT are actually 125" long.

Oh the humanity

iwire

07-04-2009, 02:22 PM

Has anyone here actually measured RMC without the coupling?

roger

07-04-2009, 02:37 PM

Has anyone here actually measured RMC without the coupling?

I have. :)

Roger

iwire

07-04-2009, 02:38 PM

I have. :)

Roger

If I recall correctly it is under 120".

don_resqcapt19

07-04-2009, 03:58 PM

If I recall correctly it is under 120".
It should be less than 120".
344.130 Standard Lengths.
The standard length of RMC shall be 3.05 m (10 ft), including an attached coupling, and each end shall be threaded. Longer or shorter lengths with or without coupling and threaded or unthreaded shall be permitted.

roger

07-04-2009, 04:10 PM

If I recall correctly it is under 120".

It is, 119.5" which goes along with Don's post.

Roger

wptski

07-04-2009, 06:12 PM

Did you even read the post I linked to? :grin:

1) All new member posts that you can see have already been looked over and approved by a moderator.

2) If any new poster is subject to ridicule or have their right to post here questioned then that will without a doubt scare some people from posting at all .... even ones that are not DIYs. We want people to feel comfortable about posting.

3) As Roger has pointed out as time goes on we may change our minds and decided someone that we approved is in fact over their head. In that case we handle it privately via PMs or emails. We do not try to publicly humiliate them. (We save that for established posters that put their foot in their mouth ;))

Again if you see a thread that you feel there is a problem with report it to us privately using the report a post button or send one of us a PM. There is no need to post it on the open forum and even if you do there is no guarantee any of the mods will see it.

I know I want to be fair and I fully believe the other mods want to be fair.
Not when you linked it but did in 8/07 when those long overdue changes were made. I'm not in a position to question ones qualifications when I really don't have much of my own in many areas covered here.

Prior to the changes in this forum, I didn't suggest it to anyone to check it out because it was a bit too rough for many.

I ran across another forum covering a alltogether different subject which was worse yet. There was a actual poll thread started asking if the members would like to see a certain member leave the forum!:rolleyes: I also learned there is such a thing as a forum option to "ignore" a member's posts because members would actual post that they were adding you to their "ignore" list!!

LarryFine

07-04-2009, 10:09 PM

quogueelectric

07-05-2009, 12:47 AM

I agree, that O'Reilly factor thing was uncalled for, but Bob didn't cry foul did he? :grin:

I read the whole thread and don't see where anybody has been abused.

If challenging a statement is abuse, then there is and will continue to be abuse. That being the case, I would say we have all been abused here and you might as well get used to it. :roll:

Roger
I was posting about Pierre picking on me why did you think it was someone else?? :grin:

realolman

07-05-2009, 08:49 AM

What if we find our own posts to be offensive?

Then you've authored a good post ;)

ultramegabob

07-05-2009, 08:57 AM

Someone told me if you roll it out and measure it, that its like 20' short. Anyone heard of this?

I just thought I might remind everyone what the thread was about originally in case they forgot.....

bradleyelectric

07-05-2009, 10:33 AM

At the top right of every post (except your own) is this http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/buttons/report.gif click on it and you get to send your concerns to every moderators email. You can also use it to report a moderators post if you have a problem with a mods post.

I don't see that on any posts. There is a #60 on the top right of this post I quoted. Is it supposed to be near that?

iwire

07-05-2009, 10:36 AM

I don't see that on any posts. There is a #60 on the top right of this post I quoted. Is it supposed to be near that?

It should be to the right of the number.

Seriously ......... it is not showing up for you?:-?

bradleyelectric

07-05-2009, 10:53 AM

It should be to the right of the number.

Seriously ......... it is not showing up for you?:-?

It is now, but seriously it wasn't

roger

07-05-2009, 11:10 AM

What if we find our own posts to be offensive?

You don't already? :grin:

Roger

iwire

07-05-2009, 11:22 AM

It is now, but seriously it wasn't

I belive you. :smile:

If you where not logged in it would not show up, once you log in to make a post you should be able to see.

dduffee260

07-05-2009, 01:46 PM

Case in point right here. About half of these posts on here are not about the subject but since it is the moderators bickering they use the board like a tennis court for their personal feelings.

The original subject was about whether or not a 250ft roll of romex was actually 250 ft. Click on pages 5,6,7 or 8 and I see one post where the original subject was mentioned. Usually when a peeon such as myself gets off subject it gets removed with the words " removed not on subject" or something like that. Like this one will probably get removed soon, or they will close the subject.

Seems like a double standard to me. Oh and for the record I agree with quogueelectric. I cannot count the number of times we had pulls of 120' to 125' and had to pull the wire off to find out we were 3' to 8' short. When copper was $4 a lb yes we did measure every inch.

roger

07-05-2009, 02:36 PM

Case in point right here. About half of these posts on here are not about the subject but since it is the moderators bickering they use the board like a tennis court for their personal feelings.

And this relates to the OP how? :grin:

BTW, I don't see any moderators including myself bickering, pointing things out maybe but not bickering.

Roger

LarryFine

07-05-2009, 05:48 PM

I would say something about all of this OT posting, but I'm afraid I'll offend myself again. 8-)

highvolts582

07-05-2009, 06:41 PM

ive been pulling thousand foot reels of mc and a thought crossed my mind do they measure the jacket or the copper cause i lose like a foot or so on every 100 foot pull cause the jacket gets streatched. saw this post and made me think about that. not worth the time to find out. but food for thought.

bradleyelectric

07-05-2009, 07:38 PM

fondini

07-05-2009, 08:51 PM

just got back from the big orange, they tossed me out after i unrolled 3 250's to measure them.....

realolman

07-05-2009, 08:54 PM

just got back from the big orange, they tossed me out after i unrolled 3 250's to measure them.....

Well, what did you come up with on those three?:smile:

480sparky

07-05-2009, 09:01 PM

jim dungar

07-05-2009, 09:11 PM

From Southwire:
MANUFACTURING AND SHIPPING TOLERANCES
Standard lengths shown on this price sheet are subject to a manufacturing tolerance of -10% and
+20%.

From General Cable:
7. All items are quoted as standard General Cable putups with a tolerance of plus or minus 10% on each reel.

LarryFine

07-05-2009, 11:13 PM

From Southwire:
MANUFACTURING AND SHIPPING TOLERANCES
Standard lengths shown on this price sheet are subject to a manufacturing tolerance of -10% and
+20%.So we have no complaint if our 250' rolls are at least 225'? That create's a vacuum, doesn't it? :mad:

I guess that's where they get the wire for those 25' rolls that cost almost half of what the 250' rolls cost. 8-)

Added: Egad! That means the 1000' rolls could be as little as 900'. Gadzooks, man!

From General Cable:
7. All items are quoted as standard General Cable putups with a tolerance of plus or minus 10% on each reel.Gee . . . let me guess which side of nominal they typically end up. :rolleyes:

jim dungar

07-06-2009, 12:31 AM

To my knowledge, -10% has been a standard put-up tolerance for more than 30 years.

bradleyelectric

07-06-2009, 12:34 AM

To my knowledge, -10% has been a standard put-up tolerance for more than 30 years.

maybe so, but 30 years ago 10% cost about $.70

quogueelectric

07-06-2009, 12:37 AM

I have also run across greenlee measuring tape that would leave wire pulls short.
While doing a refrigeration job at a price club in lake grove NY I watched annother contractor having trouble with all of thier feeder pulls they were all short.
You know the look when all of the men have that really bad bad look on thier faces and the foreman are running around looking to fire someone.
It turned out the printing machine on the foot marker on the tape was getting stuck on the 9 numeral.
So the true tape would read for instance 116-117-118-119-119-119-120-121-.....128-129-129-129-129-129-130-131-......so when you read the final number it would be short by the number of times that it skipped.
Greenlee paid to fix them all from what the other foreman told me.
So sometimes it is safer to count the sticks of pipe unless the reels of wire are short.

480sparky

07-06-2009, 12:39 AM

maybe so, but 30 years ago 10% cost about $.70

70¢ in 1979 is $2.06 today.

wireguru

07-06-2009, 12:42 AM

70¢ in 1979 is $2.06 today.

and adjusted for copper, your $2.06 is $20.60 :smile:

480sparky

07-06-2009, 12:47 AM

and adjusted for copper, your $2.06 is $20.60 :smile:

More like $2.34. Copper prices have only risen slightly more than inflation since 1979.

highvolts582

07-06-2009, 06:21 PM

I i started getting "smart" and bent it/ crimped tip with lines mans and i had a couple of mc jacket "breakaways" you know. it helped and yet not when it the pulling got tuff.

I just live and learn hmmmph.

cowboyjwc

07-06-2009, 07:16 PM

What if we find our own posts to be offensive?

I didn't want to push the little red button just yet, but I think Larry might have been talking about me.:grin:

Bob or Roger if you would be so kind as to beat him around the head and shoulders area. Thank you.:wink:

iwire

07-06-2009, 07:28 PM

I didn't want to push the little red button just yet, but I think Larry might have been talking about me.:grin:

Bob or Roger if you would be so kind as to beat him around the head and shoulders area. Thank you.:wink:

I would be happy to but I am pretty sure I would need a step ladder to do it along with a great get away plan. :grin:

cowboyjwc

07-06-2009, 07:35 PM

I would be happy to but I am pretty sure I would need a step ladder to do it along with a great get away plan. :grin:

I'm not afraid, I can get you a ladder. Of course the fact that he lives 3000 miles away doesn't hurt either.:grin:

bphgravity

07-06-2009, 07:39 PM

I had the opportunity to tour the Southwire Conductor and Cable Factory in Alabama during the 2007 Southern Section Meeting. As you would expect, the entire process is fully automated all the way from raw copper on roles to the final product out the door.

Based on what I could see, I seriously doubt you would see a large number of short conductor spools or cable bundles.

I have some pics of thhn and 12/2 NM cable being made. I will upload them when I get a chance and post them for your viewing...

hardworkingstiff

07-06-2009, 07:47 PM

mivey

07-07-2009, 03:52 PM

I just thought I might remind everyone what the thread was about originally in case they forgot.....Your Jr Deputy badge is on the way.:grin:

mivey

07-07-2009, 04:31 PM

I think the +/- 10% is being used for inventory control (the suppliers inventory). If you need 4200' on a reel and they have 4325' on it, you're going to get 4325', they are not going to cut and hold 125'.According to the Southwire rep I talked to, their lengths are -0%, +5%. This does not mean that the measurement is off, only that they may stop the run at a length up to 5% longer than you ordered and you could pay for the extra 5%. That's the official story from Southwire. Well almost, the industrial rep was not in, so they transferred me to the next most official person.

Another manufacturer's rep said they were set up to err on the + side (that's what the plant tells them). Building wire in standard lengths would be paid by the standard length so you would get the extra for "free". For custom-ordered wire, you would pay for the extra that came out of the run. I know some guys at one of their plants and I can get the official scoop from the ones who actually have their hands on the process. I'll ask the next time I'm there, if I don't forget.

ultramegabob

07-07-2009, 05:34 PM

Your Jr Deputy badge is on the way.:grin:

Dig it!:D .

jmiller_55

07-08-2009, 08:52 AM

I have worked in Maint. at a wire manufacturing plant.. They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%.. So this is true or atleast at this particular Manu..

realolman

07-08-2009, 05:44 PM

..... They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%....

What exactly does that mean? :confused:

jmiller_55

07-09-2009, 07:36 AM

The footage counters that measured how much wire is on the spool or reel.. On the romex lines they would stop the take-up machine and the wire would be cut once it reached the preset value (automatic cut)... On the THHN lines counters would stop the machine and the operator would cut it with dikes... But yea they never wanted to put the correct amount on the spool/reel they preferred the -10%..

wptski

07-09-2009, 11:17 AM

What exactly does that mean? :confused:
You'll never get extra wire but can get up to 10% shorter.

short circuit faulted

07-10-2009, 05:16 PM

I too have been told and unfortunately have experienced the - 10% side from factory - However in building wire cut to length Southwire and others you can and should specific exact length required for wire order. This puts factory on notice that if you have specified 820' of 500KCMIL on a reel of wire for a pull that they must provide at least that amount - I am not concerned if they decide to ship 830' feet but am surely more than upset should they ship 800' feet on a 820' run and it comes up short in the pull. Not a good thing for them as that ugly word backcharge gets tossed about and usually applied to the distributor and the manufacturer of the wire.

Have a great day all!

Steve

hardworkingstiff

07-10-2009, 09:51 PM

- I am not concerned if they decide to ship 830' feet but am surely more than upset should they ship 800' feet on a 820' run and it comes up short in the pull.

Would you be upset if they sent 902' and billed you for the extra 82'?

realolman

07-11-2009, 08:04 AM

Throw them people outta an airplane, and they'd miss the world.

... to be off by 10% , they'd have to be off by 1.2" per foot. That's some pretty crappy measurement... You can manufacture wire, and you can't measure it better than that?!? :-?.. come on.

Ain't no way they're being that sloppy with their own materials.

quogueelectric

07-12-2009, 04:04 AM

realolman

07-12-2009, 09:45 AM

I just think there is a lot of "common knowlege" floating around that is not very knowlegable... or well thought out.

Let's see...a company is capable of manufactuing wire, and can't measure it any closer than + - 10 %. How do you calibrate a measuring device to be within 1.2" per foot?... or is it 2.4" per foot?:-?

There are some bean counters, engineers , and mechanics there who are seriously deficient.

Nobody's gonna be that sloppy as to not know where 20% of their finished product is.

"We sell 500 million dollars worth of wire a year and we might have had $50,000,000 more income, or $50,000,000 less. We just don't know. If we could only measure the length of our product."

Please do send me the GPS co-ordinates. I'd like to apply to be the plant manager for + -10% of what I can save them.:smile:

jim dungar

07-12-2009, 11:42 AM

I just think there is a lot of "common knowlege" floating around that is not very knowlegable... or well thought out.

Let's see...a company is capable of manufactuing wire, and can't measure it any closer than + - 10 %. How do you calibrate a measuring device to be within 1.2" per foot?... or is it 2.4" per foot?:-?

There are some bean counters, engineers , and mechanics there who are seriously deficient.

Nobody's gonna be that sloppy as to not know where 20% of their finished product is.

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

Besoeker

07-12-2009, 12:19 PM

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

Doesn't Romex come on standard rolls? Could you actually buy 490 feet rather than taking two 250 feet rolls?

realolman

07-12-2009, 12:28 PM

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

Knowing what I know about wiring, I'd send you what you ordered... or call and find out if I could send you less.
510' is useless if you need 520'

Plus that's not what we're talking about here:

I have worked in Maint. at a wire manufacturing plant.. They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%..

jim dungar

07-12-2009, 02:08 PM

Knowing what I know about wiring, I'd send you what you ordered... or call and find out if I could send you less.
510' is useless if you need 520'. Yeah, but having a published tolerance policy would mean you would not have to make as many phones calls.

Plus that's not what we're talking about here:

I have worked in Maint. at a wire manufacturing plant.. They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%..
Yes, it might. Consider that the footage counter keeps track of actual length, but the cutting occurs at -10% of the value entered. You ask for 500', the machine only cuts 450', you only pay for what they actually ship. Or, the machine is winding a 500' spool and only gets to 485' before the product runs out, with a -10% tolerance the 'short' spool would still get shipped instead of being considered a reject but the machine still knows exactly how much was cut.

I do find it hard to believe (although it could be possible) that standard put ups of any product would not be consistent in length and rarely vary by more than 1 foot.

wptski

07-12-2009, 04:21 PM

If they can't get any closer than +/-10%, they sure aren't ISO 9001 quality companies which is the current quality buzzword used!

jim dungar

07-12-2009, 04:45 PM

ISO 9001 certification means that you do things consistently, not necessarily correctly.

LarryFine

07-12-2009, 05:01 PM

Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll ... or ... sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

510' is useless if you need 520'
I agree, and I know what I'd do if I received less than what I ordered. If they say I have to order - and pay for - an extra 10% because of their business practices, then I buy my wire elsewhere.

It's up to me to err on the side of caution when I measure and order a length of wire, but once I come up with a number, as long as what I receive is at least that long, they've filled my order.

If I order 520', and they won't try to get closer than 10% of my order, it's upon them to tell the wire-cutting department whatever they have to tell them to assure my wire is at least 520'.

480sparky

07-12-2009, 05:35 PM

It would be a very interesting concept to take this 10% +/- concept to the next level..... that of paying your supply house.

"Here's my check for $10,000 for this month's invoices, Chuck. You may get a credit in your bank account for $11,000, or it may end up being only $9,000. Good luck!"

jim dungar

07-12-2009, 07:21 PM

If they say I have to order - and pay for - an extra 10% because of their business practices, then I buy my wire elsewhere.

What if they only charged you for what you got, but what you got is 10% less than what you wanted?

I have never heard of a manufacturer charging 100% for a +/- tolerance. Every time I have had to accept a tolerance issue, the pricing was based on what was actually shipped. And no, I don't like getting and paying for, 10% more than I need either.

LarryFine

07-12-2009, 07:58 PM

What if they only charged you for what you got, but what you got is 10% less than what you wanted?
Then, my order wasn't filled, and I expect the replacement expedited and delivered directly to me. Now, I'm losing time, unless there's something else to do while I'm waiting.

Then, I have to consider cost of re-pulling, and maybe extending equipment rental time. Or, is it encumbent upon me to measure every length of conductor before I install it?

If I get lunch to go, should I have to stand at the counter, or sit at the drive-thru window, and open everything to make sure it's made right? And, if it's wrong, I have to wait . . . again.

As the old man said:
510' is useless if you need 520'

jim dungar

07-12-2009, 09:03 PM

Then, my order wasn't filled, and I expect the replacement expedited and delivered directly to me.
If their published terms include tolerances and they only charge for what they have shipped, they have met their contractual requirements.

I know many people are not aware of all of the fine print in manufacturers "Terms and Conditions of Sale". Hopefully this thread has pointed out the need to investigate and understand potential gotchas. Just because you have never had a problem before, does not mean that Murphy's Law will not catch up to you someday.

realolman

07-13-2009, 07:34 AM

It's hard for me to understand why someone would defend such nonsense.

I would expect tolerences to apply to reasonable measurement capabilities and needs. I would not expect anyone using a tape measure to measure anything closer than + - 1/32" ... probably more like 1/16".

1/32" would be uselessly sloppy in machined parts.

So... I should think it reasonable that a 16' 2"X4" to be within a 1/16 " ( actually I'd expect it to be closer than that ), but a 16 foot piece of wire could be 19.2" short? Good grief!

A large part of the problem with the world today is that there are those so lacking in ethics, and self centered that they think that sort of nonsense is acceptable. Think only of youself... the heck with your customer.

Everything we get we have to be the QC department for the company that manufactured it. It's ridiculous. UPS is making out on it, though... so long as they continue to deliver it within 10 percent of the total shipping distance.;)

jmiller_55

07-13-2009, 08:15 AM

We are referring to 250, 500 or 1000' spools, coils, or reels of wire and NOT 16'.... I actually think this thread is called 250' in a roll of romex.... Like it or not right or wrong that tolerance was their standard..... I argued with them about it.... There are several other things that I know after working here that prevents me from using their wire..... I WILL NEVER USE IT......

LarryFine

07-13-2009, 03:56 PM

If their published terms include tolerances and they only charge for what they have shipped, they have met their contractual requirements.
I don't agree. I have no problem with sending back what is useless to me just because it's as close as they want to try to get.

So I should be satisfied with "Hey, it may be 20' shorter than what you asked for, but we didn't charge you for the missing amount!"

Big whoop! As I said, if I need 520', they need to do whatever they need to do so I receive at least 520', even if it means cuting 530'.

Added: When I place my order, if someone needs to add a fudge factor to make sure I get it, so be it. Let them fudge.

jim dungar

07-13-2009, 05:20 PM

Added: When I place my order, if someone needs to add a fudge factor to make sure I get it, so be it. Let them fudge.
Exactly.

My point is you need to know the "Terms and Conditions" of the contract you are entering into, and then how to accommodate them to suit your needs/requirements.

LarryFine

07-13-2009, 07:19 PM

My point is you need to know the "Terms and Conditions" of the contract you are entering into, and then how to accommodate them to suit your needs/requirements.
My point is that the wire seller should also know his Terms and Conditions, and should do whatever it takes for me to receive what I order and pay for.

By the way, I've never heard of ordering a length of wire, but waiting until it arrives to see how many feet I'll actually be getting, or being billed for.

kid_stevens

08-04-2009, 11:45 PM

With simpull they are always short in our favor as the rollers that measure the wire slip on simpull and let extra through.

mivey

08-05-2009, 12:29 AM

According to the Southwire rep I talked to, their lengths are -0%, +5%. This does not mean that the measurement is off, only that they may stop the run at a length up to 5% longer than you ordered and you could pay for the extra 5%. That's the official story from Southwire. Well almost, the industrial rep was not in, so they transferred me to the next most official person.

Another manufacturer's rep said they were set up to err on the + side (that's what the plant tells them). Building wire in standard lengths would be paid by the standard length so you would get the extra for "free". For custom-ordered wire, you would pay for the extra that came out of the run. I know some guys at one of their plants and I can get the official scoop from the ones who actually have their hands on the process. I'll ask the next time I'm there, if I don't forget.Finally remembered to ask. According to an actual hands-on person at one of the plants:

Most wire is measured to 0.1" during the manufacturing process. They maintain an average of +/- 1 % when spooling the wire (can actually get to +/- 1/2%). The biggest error is due to human intervention. People stand in a different spot when they cut the wire, spool up the machines differently, re-set the counters differently, are knuckle-heads, just plain out make mistakes, etc.

His advice: If you want X number of ft, you better add the tolerance the supplier gives you or you may be short.

He did not think that a 250 ft roll of cable at a supply house will always be 250 ft, but that a truckload of rolls should average pretty close to that. He said he would expect it to average on the minus side, but within published limits.

tom baker

08-05-2009, 01:22 AM

I have always been told by wire manufacturers that they had a plus or minus ten percent tolerance

Yes I had a manager of a wholesale tell me they supplied 1000 ft wire spools for a job, a 1000 ft pull and they were short.

kid_stevens

08-05-2009, 02:32 AM

I just got 800 feet of 8/3 Simpull Romex and it was 5 feet over on a custom cut. The roll was just reeled back up 10 minutes ago. This thread made me look at the new roll.

denny3992

08-05-2009, 05:41 PM

measure resistance , then compare to what it should be? alot simpler than rolling out 250' of RX

Speedskater

08-05-2009, 05:59 PM

measure resistance , then compare to what it should be? alot simpler than rolling out 250' of RX

I think that the machine that makes the wire pulls the copper through a "die" to make it the proper gauge. As the die wears the diameter will change. It won't take much wear to change the cross-section area by 1 % and that's equal to 2 and 1/2 feet.

iwire

08-05-2009, 07:57 PM

You can bet they keep the die pretty darn accurate as running a larger diameter then needed would mess up conduit fill and cost the factory extra copper.

You can measure wire length with resistance but not with a run of the mill multimeter.

realolman

08-05-2009, 08:57 PM

You can bet they keep the die pretty darn accurate as running a larger diameter then needed would mess up conduit fill and cost the factory extra copper.....

.

Not that they'd care whether or not it would fit in the conduit, since they don't even care that they give you 10% less than you ordered.:wink:

'course that would fit in the conduit. It just wouldn't stick out the ends:smile:

Now, costing the factory extra copper... now that they'd care about!:)

Speedskater

08-05-2009, 09:18 PM

Let's see, 250 feet of 14 gauge is about 0.63 Ohms. I have a 4 terminal Ohm-meter with 100 micro Ohm resolution, but I don't have a 250 foot roll of cable.

sitsom

08-06-2009, 05:39 AM

15 pages of dicussing the length of romex!? I just read the first few post but what's the whole 15 pages about or did it just get off topic? I mean WAAAAAAY off topic.

DonP520

08-06-2009, 06:11 PM

Weigh 10ft = ? X 25 will give you 250'ft

quogueelectric

08-06-2009, 11:46 PM

We just unloaded 60,000 feet of #10 stranded on 500' reels I will see if I can pull some true tape in with some of the runs if I end up pulling this wire in.

wptski

08-07-2009, 12:38 AM

kid_stevens

08-07-2009, 12:40 AM

measure resistance , then compare to what it should be? alot simpler than rolling out 250' of RX

We rolled it out to cut it into the different lengths for the 4 different apartment types and then staged it with the new panels and breakers. 48 unit apartment complex with ITE panels all set with 100 amp disconnects and every single panel has burned up buss bars and or missing breaker tabs (burned off).

kid_stevens

08-07-2009, 12:42 AM

Not about to read this whole thread to see if its been mentioned! Although I've had mixed results using a TDR on Romex, some users here say theirs are accurate. How about using one to check a few spools?

You could not use a TDR on a rolled up spool. They will return false results. I used a TDR at least once a week for 11 years in the Navy and boy do they freak out on rolls of cable.

wptski

08-07-2009, 10:57 AM

You could not use a TDR on a rolled up spool. They will return false results. I used a TDR at least once a week for 11 years in the Navy and boy do they freak out on rolls of cable.
Yeah, that's right, you reminded me!

bradleyelectric

08-07-2009, 07:03 PM

15 pages of dicussing the length of romex!? I just read the first few post but what's the whole 15 pages about or did it just get off topic? I mean WAAAAAAY off topic.

Nope, this 1 stayed pretty close to topic. You really didn't miss anything.

dtstellwagen

08-31-2009, 09:22 PM

I don't know about nm, but I can tell you about mc cable. I was doing prefab for a midrise, hundreds of 20 foot lengths of mc, buying on 955 foot rolls, sold as 1000 foot rolls. Told by parts house it was sold +/-5%. The manufacturers certainly have equipment to verify that their equipment isn't mistakenly giving out too much wire, and they can use the same equipment to cut 4 1/2% short. (Don't even consider the idea that mc stretches, the jacket has some give and take, but the copper inside doesn't, and I was cutting the copper within 1 inch at 240 inch lengths, .4%!). On the other hand, the "Southwire" Romex I most recently bought has the length stamped right on the cable, I didn't bother to look at both ends, but I cant imagine that they would stamp the length each foot at 11 inches, so the length would be easy to check.