Your thoughts

[hardworkingstiff]

If you give a customer a proposal to perform some work, what is your 1st thought/reaction if they call back and say their office needs a breakdown on materials and labor?

My 1st thought is they think my number is high and they are trying to understand it better.

My 2nd thought is they are hoping to get a material list and want to shop the job (there was a bit of prep work to put the quote together and they wouldn't know what to exactly tell another EC what to quote).

Either way, I don't like the request, and I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do.

[Loffgren]

You can say the job was not bid at time and material but for the scope and difficulty of work...

[mcclary's electrical]

If you give a customer a proposal to perform some work, what is your 1st thought/reaction if they call back and say their office needs a breakdown on materials and labor?

My 1st thought is they think my number is high and they are trying to understand it better.

My 2nd thought is they are hoping to get a material list and want to shop the job (there was a bit of prep work to put the quote together and they wouldn't know what to exactly tell another EC what to quote).

Either way, I don't like the request, and I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do.

I agree with above,,,,tell them you do not break down hours, you have flat rate pricing you use for bidding. It's a flat rate price. There are no hours in the figure.

[Cow]

If you give a customer a proposal to perform some work, what is your 1st thought/reaction if they call back and say their office needs a breakdown on materials and labor?

I think the forum consensus anytime someone asks this question, is don't give them anything. Maybe a seperate price for labor and materials but that's it. I'm just a worker bee so take it with a grain of salt.;)

[Sami Burton]

I have worked on the other end of mostly receiving quotes and it is extremely frustrating to get just one large number. I mostly request breakout costs to ensure that you have everything required. I don't really care about the labor because that is more arbitrary. The equipment and materials is what I am interested in. Never give too much information but give them lists of what is included and large blanket numbers for areas of materials.

[SEO]

The next thing that they will want is to look at is your budget, profit margin etc. Are you quoting against someone else? If you are they should have the same information that you have and it's not any of the GC's business how you got your price.

[Volta]

I think that your 1 - 2 feeling is right. They may not think of it as a list that they want, but if one was in their hands, it might at least have talking points for the next call the make (to your competition).

I assume this is a homeowner or small business. A bigger company might need to know basically what the breakdown is so when they talk the manager or final customer they can seem informed about the proposal.

If it's an owner / occupant situation, they might just be confused as how long it takes to do things (correctly8-)) and need to see the large number of hours listed.

[1793]

If you give a customer a proposal to perform some work, what is your 1st thought/reaction if they call back and say their office needs a breakdown on materials and labor?

My 1st thought is they think my number is high and they are trying to understand it better.

My 2nd thought is they are hoping to get a material list and want to shop the job (there was a bit of prep work to put the quote together and they wouldn't know what to exactly tell another EC what to quote).

Either way, I don't like the request, and I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do.

Just had a customer ask for a breakdown for a job I was already awarded and completed, I did not want to give it to him but I did and he had a "Duck Fit" when he saw what I charged. He did pay me but said he wish he had shopped around.

He was very happy with the work and liked my professionalism and craftsmanship and all that gack, but still was not happy.

Go figure.

[Ohmy]

Don't be afraid. Just ask them why? Say "How do you want the material broken down? What is it you are trying to figure out." He will tell you and then you can help him understand and close the deal.

[Ohmy]

Just had a customer ask for a breakdown for a job I was already awarded and completed, I did not want to give it to him but I did and he had a "Duck Fit" when he saw what I charged. He did pay me but said he wish he had shopped around.

He was very happy with the work and liked my professionalism and craftsmanship and all that gack, but still was not happy.

Go figure.


Those are just bad people. Shouldn't you want your electrician to make money? What does you making money have to do with whether he got a good deal?

If you found a 5kt diamond while digging in your backyard and then took it to the pawn shop would you sell it for a $100 bucks because "that all you got in it" or "it only took you an hour." No, you would sell it for what its worth which has nothing to do with what it cost you.

[Patrick Kennedy]

I agree with above,,,,tell them you do not break down hours, you have flat rate pricing you use for bidding. It's a flat rate price. There are no hours in the figure.

I agree fully. They are trying to shop you. Let them know that you have flat rate pricing for each item that includes labor & material. That it is a national system and is based on the average amount of time & material it takes to do each job.

Note: You will need to ready to break it out on a line by line basis os some sort f you do it this way. For example: Install 1 dedicated outlet = $478.00, Install one new light fixture with wiring = $325.00. Etc, etc

This is how we price all our work.

Patrick

[bradleyelectric]

Don't be afraid. Just ask them why? Say "How do you want the material broken down? What is it you are trying to figure out." He will tell you and then you can help him understand and close the deal.

This is all I think is going on here.

[satcom]

Our proposal, gives a brief scope of work and a total cost for the work, if they accept the proposal we write up a contract which also has a brief description of the work to be preformed and a total cost, if we breakout Labor and Material the job becomes taxable, we are cotractors not day laborers, so we don't break down time and material.

[220/221]

Tell them the ballpark number is generally around 65/35 Labor/Materials.

Substitute whatever numbers you think would be appropriate.

I would not give specifics unless it was a good account that required them.

No way I'd give them a ,material list.

[hardworkingstiff]

Here's what I decided to send them. I'm pretty sure it's less than they wanted, but it keeps the dialogue going.
Tim,

I'm not sure what you are looking for, but here's a try.

Disconnect replacement:
Disconnect, conduit, fittings, service wire, butt splices and heat shrink for use in wire gutter, polaris connectors for use in wire gutter, permit, inspections, signage, misc materials = $9,437.01

Labor = $2,300
New panel to replace old equipment:
Panel and breakers, conduit, fittings, service wire, butt splices to extend wires to breakers, permit, inspections, signage, misc materials = $9,278.55

Labor = $5,400

Let me know when we can get together to sign paperwork and I'll get started on the permitting.
Thanks,

[staticcontrol]

Hi.
That's some pricy equipment you got. Seems like big switchgear or just big panels with 3 phase and such.. I have been getting beat up over prices. I think the hang up with customers comes down to jealousy. Hear me out.......say you have a days work to do a service change which is typical. A 200 amp service change goes for about $2,500 these days...even more. The material is really about $400 give or take $50. If you itemise that to the customer,I think it's only natural for people to say "wow. he's making more than me in a day than I do in a week" Of course theirs other business costs to you but they don't see it that way. I'm young....I know for sure one customer felt this way cause he came out and said "I'm 66 yrs old and the most I made an hour was $30. He was hell bent on making sure I didn't make more than him and was very vocal about it. However, his bill was $400 with material. He was unhappy. I was there fixing lights outside (troubleshooting that didn't work for 2 yrs) and spent 4 hrs in the heat wave on black top. He underminded my effort and that pissed me off.

staticcontrol

[hardworkingstiff]

That's some pricy equipment you got.

1,000-amp gear.

This is the job.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=1104808&postcount=12

I work for money, not fun or experience, I've had enough of both. :)

[sawdust454]

Sure, you can break down the prices for them, but the estimate will cost them $150.00.

[nhfire77]

I just had the same problem.

Eight apartment buildings, 6-7 hours of repairs. I gave them a number. They were fine with it, I was getting the job anyway, but their boss wanted to see it per building. The work was mostly in two buildings, maybe 1 hour in another, 30 min in still another.

So I took $2400 (my estimate parts, labor, permit, profit etc.) divided it by eight.

Building #1 $300
Building #2 $300
Building #3 $300
etc.

The big boss did not understand how the cost was equally divided between all eight buildings. I asked if it mattered because they were tracking it per building. The answer was no, she just wanted to how that was so even.

I told her, look, I normally don't line item a small job. So let me worry about what goes where. She asked for three references before I started. OK. Next day she called and said "OK you are highly recommended, work your magic!!


That worked out well and I didn't have to give her the costs. As a previous poster stated, if they saw that I was charging over $100/hour, they would have freaked, but I know my number was less what the other guy they had been using would have been

[hardworkingstiff]

.... but I know my number was less what the other guy they had been using would have been

I'm almost always higher than the "other" guy. That's the reason I'm still able to eat and pay my bills in this environment. I charged a high price while things were good and listened to my Mama who told me to make sure to put money away for a rainy day. Now, we'll see if my rain fund can out last this hurricane.

[Teaspoon]

It seems that sometimes our customers, don't want us to make any money.
I work Residential, I like to flat rate most of my jobs.Sometimes a customer will question me on pricing. I don't usually give a break down of materials & labor.
I figure that is my business. Their business is getting a good job done.
And there is always the little add-ons, while you are here type things.

[Power Tech]

If you give a customer a proposal to perform some work, what is your 1st thought/reaction if they call back and say their office needs a breakdown on materials and labor?

My 1st thought is they think my number is high and they are trying to understand it better.

My 2nd thought is they are hoping to get a material list and want to shop the job (there was a bit of prep work to put the quote together and they wouldn't know what to exactly tell another EC what to quote).

Either way, I don't like the request, and I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do.

Can you give me a breakdown.

That was an article in the How To Screw a Contractor magazine.

[nhfire77]

I'm almost always higher than the "other" guy. That's the reason I'm still able to eat and pay my bills in this environment. I charged a high price while things were good and listened to my Mama who told me to make sure to put money away for a rainy day. Now, we'll see if my rain fund can out last this hurricane.

the other guy was charging about double what I was. I still make $1000.00 profit for less than a days work.

[benaround]

Here's what I decided to send them. I'm pretty sure it's less than they wanted, but it keeps the dialogue going.

Tim, one more thing, I do about 500 jobs a year and it took me about 1 hour to do this

'breakdown for you, at $50.00 an hour that would be $25,000 cost to me to do breakdowns

and I'm trying to keep my costs down, I'm sure you understand.

Lou.

[LarryFine]

. . . and I'm trying to keep my costs down . . . . . . which will, in turn, keep your costs down. ;)

[benaround]

. . . which will, in turn, keep your costs down. ;)

How is it going to keep 'my' costs down ? :) :)

[LarryFine]

How is it going to keep 'my' costs down ? :) :)No, that was the continuation of what you were saying to the customer.

What saves you money saves the customer money. That's the theory, anyway.

[TwinCitySparky]

1,000-amp gear.

This is the job.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=1104808&postcount=12

I work for money, not fun or experience, I've had enough of both. :)


BTW - Nice work!

[hardworkingstiff]

BTW - Nice work!

Thanks, but that's the existing stuff. If I get the job I'll post a picture of the finished work.

[cadpoint]

Good Luck, Lou

8-)

PS- My mother always stated the same thing too!

[marti smith]

Hi.
That's some pricy equipment you got. Seems like big switchgear or just big panels with 3 phase and such.. I have been getting beat up over prices. I think the hang up with customers comes down to jealousy. Hear me out.......say you have a days work to do a service change which is typical. A 200 amp service change goes for about $2,500 these days...even more. The material is really about $400 give or take $50. If you itemise that to the customer,I think it's only natural for people to say "wow. he's making more than me in a day than I do in a week" Of course theirs other business costs to you but they don't see it that way. I'm young....I know for sure one customer felt this way cause he came out and said "I'm 66 yrs old and the most I made an hour was $30. He was hell bent on making sure I didn't make more than him and was very vocal about it. However, his bill was $400 with material. He was unhappy. I was there fixing lights outside (troubleshooting that didn't work for 2 yrs) and spent 4 hrs in the heat wave on black top. He underminded my effort and that pissed me off.

staticcontrol

I like to diplomatically remind those types of folks that if they knew how to do it, they would. We have experience, are licensed and have had schooling and training, etc., and will do the job to the best of our ability, to code, and when we leave, it won't burn down because of that knowledge. If they don't like the price, they can help themselves to the nearest local hardware store and hopefully get the right thing and figure out how to put it all together.

I have also in the past, requested that certain crotchety customers go back inside/the other room/ etc, as they are a distraction and pose a hazard (to my pacience).

[benaround]

No, that was the continuation of what you were saying to the customer.

What saves you money saves the customer money. That's the theory, anyway.

j/k big guy, I thought the 2 smilies were a giveaway!!

[LarryFine]

PS- My mother always stated the same thing too!What, that she'll post a picture if she gets the job? :D

[LarryFine]

j/k big guy, I thought the 2 smilies were a giveaway!!Nope. You need to use a wink smiley. ;)