Broken vase

[jwjrw]

So Im changing out an inside panel... The pantry is just around the corner the panel is in the right side wall of it. I had to cut the studs out on each side because the new panel was longer.....The vibration must of knocked the vase to the floor in the pantry and broke it. I had no idea it was there and dont feel it was my fault. If I dont replace it I imagine I will get bad reviews from customer...If I do replace it I lose profit but still make money..and maybe get more work in the neighborhood. So do you think I should of looked in the pantry before I started???? I will from now on but I think its more rotten luck then anything...:mad:

[shepelec]

Lousy luck. I have had this happen with pictures on the wall.

Admit it, offer to pay for it and move on. I have found most times the customer will let it go.

[Volta]

Yeah, that's bad luck. Hard to claim that it is the customer's fault though. I'd offer / ask them if they want it replaced. If it had sentimental value, you won't be able to. If it was cheap, they shouldn't care. If it was valueble then some compromise might be called for.

[jwjrw]

170.00 and I'm not really saying its the customers fault but at least she new it was in there and had moved anything that could be broke from tables etc in the rooms we were working in....Just bad luck I guess..She was gone I showed the husband he said oh no big deal not your fault...Then the wife got home...It was a wedding gift so she cared about it..Didnt outright say I want it replaced but you know she does..

[shepelec]

I would show a discount on the invoice. That would show them that it did matter to you. I know it sucks but in this case I would take $100 off the bill and call it a day.

[N844AA]

You should always check out the backside of a wall before you start hammering on it. This business of "leaving bad reviews" tells me you somehow have gotten drawn into Angieslist of some other scam which you should avoid. You can do a perfect job and people will still complain, there's no mechanism to remove fake reviews, etc.

The Internet is a very un-democratic place and you have no control of your reputation. One bad review even if undeserved will tarnish your rep for the rest of your life. It's not fair, the balance of power favors the homeowner, and if you try to get false info removed, you will be ignored.

I avoid situations like this.

[jwjrw]

You should always check out the backside of a wall before you start hammering on it. This business of "leaving bad reviews" tells me you somehow have gotten drawn into Angieslist of some other scam which you should avoid. You can do a perfect job and people will still complain, there's no mechanism to remove fake reviews, etc.

The Internet is a very un-democratic place and you have no control of your reputation. One bad review even if undeserved will tarnish your rep for the rest of your life. It's not fair, the balance of power favors the homeowner, and if you try to get false info removed, you will be ignored.

I avoid situations like this.


The pantry door was 6feet away and the stairs were between it. Yea my fault for not realizing it came over that far. That said when you cut a receptacle box out do you make it a habbit to go in the room behind it looking for things that could fall? If you do I bet its because you had this happen also...And she had removed anything breakable from everywhere else we were working..

And you can dispute bad reviews. Im getting lots of work off Angies list now. Good jobs and reviews

[N844AA]

That said when you cut a receptacle box out do you make it a habbit to go in the room behind it looking for things that could fall?

No, not really, I see your point.



And you can dispute bad reviews. Im getting lots of work off Angies list now. Good jobs and reviews

Wow, this is good news!

[WinZip]

This reminds me of a china cabinet I had to pay for repairs.

Kitchen remodel an one of my guys was trying to drill a hole threw a wooden panel under a cabinet an he got caught on a nail an the auger pulled him into the cabinet as he was trying to release the trigger on the drill so when he did release the trigger he says oh chit I drilled threw the wall an into a china cabinet. $$$$$$$$$

From what I remember it was a 1000 or 2000 rpm drill

[cadpoint]

...That said when you cut a receptacle box out do you make it a habit to go in the room behind it looking for things that could fall? If you do I bet its because you had this happen also...

Yeap, my own house, drilled right into a metal air duct, cause I didn't take the time to look! It happens... I frankly have to stop myself sometimes and take that minute to look around, think about my environment, and the cause and effect of what I'm about to do. I've even stopped other trades more than once when they were not conscious of their deeds as well.

Got luck with the client!

[growler]

The vibration must of knocked the vase to the floor in the pantry and broke it. I had no idea it was there and dont feel it was my fault. If I dont replace it I imagine I will get bad reviews from customer...

From time to time certain things do go wrong and that's all part of it. Sooner or later everyone has an accident and most of them are something small. The money to replace a broken vase should be considered as part of operating overhead. Don't think of it as money spent on this particular job but as money spread out over a period of time as an operating expense. You probably don't break a vase on every job but over a period of time there is a certian cost for incidentials and this is added to the total job cost. If you accomplish 20 jobs with only $200 in incidential cost then add $10 to every job to cover this cost.

If you have figured the cost of the panel change right then replacing the vase shouldn't be that big of a problem, it's just another expense to be prepared for ( and charged for ). :)

[Volta]

. . . That said when you cut a receptacle box out do you make it a habbit to go in the room behind it looking for things that could fall? . . .


It's sure a good idea, and we sure learn a lot from mistakes! :grin:

But we should be looking on the other side of the wall whenever possible for fire/smoke resistance purposes, anyhow, as we are reminded by the Fine Print Note to 300.21.

Granted, that is less important within a dwelling unit where the doors are often open anyhow than some commercial structures.

[zog]

Yeap, my own house, drilled right into a metal air duct, cause I didn't take the time to look! It happens...

Well I hope you did the right thing and offered to pay yourself :)

[augie47]

Even though it was a reasonable distance away, I don't think you can remove yourself from it entirely. If it takes full payment to make the customer happy, then so be it..it's one more expensive lesson.
I would try and explain to them as you did us, that you do "check" but have never had such an occurrence at that distance. As shepelec suggested, offer to take $100 off the invoice and see how the customer feels.

[AV ELECTRIC]

Maybe offer her an additional service like hang a new light , recessed can in hallway , change out some switches install a dimmer you get the message something she would appreciate having done that is not a big cost to you minimal material cost mostly labor

[jwjrw]

I'm going to eat it all. Its one of them coulda shoulda and I didnt.
I have plenty of room in the bid for it and its better then me knocking it off a shelf in my eyes. One more thing I learned...Will my learning never end:D

[Volta]

I'm going to eat it all. Its one of them coulda shoulda and I didnt.
I have plenty of room in the bid for it and its better then me knocking it off a shelf in my eyes. One more thing I learned...Will my learning never end:D
Not 'till that last day. :grin:
Maybe offer her an additional service like hang a new light , recessed can in hallway , change out some switches install a dimmer you get the message something she would appreciate having done that is not a big cost to you minimal material cost mostly labor
Good idea, if you can do that and you pay for it you'll both feel happy. Remember that was a gift, the money is irrelevant.

In five years all they might remember is 'some electrician broke the wedding gift'.
Or, they might say, 'That poor guy was working on the wall when the vase fell, but at least he was good enough to fix that ________ for us. We still use him'.

The money won't be important at that point, either way. They will only think about how they were treated.

[dduffee260]

Ask her how long she has had the vase. What was the cost new? Have her pro rate it for the usage she has had with it. See if that works.

[jeremysterling]

Yeah, I'm working on a customer's sconce, a warranty call. Bad LV transformer, piece of cake, right. $16 for new ballast.

I removing the glass and missing set screw causes me to lose control of a "globe". Replacement cost is $100.

No, I just need the flute, not the whole fixture. Oh, the whole fixture is $380!

I think a maintenance man lost the set-screw, but the breakage is still on me.:mad:

[cdslotz]

At least that vase wasn't an urn with granny's remains in it :)

[Oakey]

Fess up it happens, I knocked a box down the attic stairs filled with dead Aunt Erma's priceless China that was willed to the customer and she had just passed away. The only thing they got from her and I had to wait until the customer came home to tell her, it was really hard. A few days later she called and reassured me it was ok, she blamed her husband somehow for leaving the box there :) Odd but thanked me for being honest and telling her face to face.

[danickstr]

Somehow it is always our fault, since we are the so-called experts. I would not expect a HO to figure out that vibrations could take out stuff, unless it had happened to them. I think you are doing the right thing, and they are not really doing the right thing by letting you take the entire hit for it, since you didn't really know the layout of the house. But the high road is typically the one I try to take, since it lets me sleep. With a thinner wallet near by.

[mivey]

At least that vase wasn't an urn with granny's remains in it :)No, Jinxy, no!

[readydave8]

I share Growlers opinion that the cost is spread out over jobs that I didn't break anything. Also think about close calls, just missed drilling into plumbing, caught the expensive object before it hit the floor, noticed a fragile item walking to the edge of the shelf. Look at the big picture.

I've paid for a cheap basket that suddenly was worth $40, various other items. Years ago a helper broke a custom made tiffany lamp, I took it and had it repaired, the customer never knew. Customer satisfaction is the key, expenses that may seem large often don't amount to much in perspective at the end of the year.

[jrannis]

My brother did something similar.
Changing a panel on an interior wall. On the other side was a 20' long shelf with a bunch of nic nacs on it.
The HO was told to remove all of the items so they would not get broken.
The HO was an expert in vibration and was a helicopter engineer and knew that the vibration would not travel to the end of the shelf where the antique clock his Aunt had left him was sitting.
Crash Boom! The clock shook off and was broken.
I looked on the internet and found that the clock was worth $300 in perfect condition and about $100 in the condition it was in. (cracked and missing parts)
None in recent history had been sold for more than $150 in the last 30 years or so.
The HO wanted the full retail off of the bill.
I reminded him that he was told to remove all of the stuff but refused due to his expert knowledge.
I told him that I would give him $150 but would have to take the clock with me back to the shop or knock $100 off a a good will gesture and he could keep it.
He went for the $100.

[realolman]

I think you should say that you are sorry it happened... that you try to take precautions to avoid damage, maybe mention tactfully, that she moved some stuff, but apparently didn't think the vase was vulnerable, and OFFER to reimburse her through money or services.

I don't think you should just unilatterally deduct or pay, because she may just let you slide, and still have good feelings about you because you took responsibility ( whether it was yours or not ).

I think try to give her what she wants, it it's reasonable, but give her a chance to be forgiving and magnanimous.

[Ohmy]

So Im changing out an inside panel... The pantry is just around the corner the panel is in the right side wall of it. I had to cut the studs out on each side because the new panel was longer.....The vibration must of knocked the vase to the floor in the pantry and broke it. I had no idea it was there and dont feel it was my fault. If I dont replace it I imagine I will get bad reviews from customer...If I do replace it I lose profit but still make money..and maybe get more work in the neighborhood. So do you think I should of looked in the pantry before I started???? I will from now on but I think its more rotten luck then anything...:mad:

Replace the vase no questions asked. That's what makes you the best business in town. Plus, that's the kinda of guy you are personally.

[Ohmy]

My brother did something similar.
Changing a panel on an interior wall. On the other side was a 20' long shelf with a bunch of nic nacs on it.
The HO was told to remove all of the items so they would not get broken.
The HO was an expert in vibration and was a helicopter engineer and knew that the vibration would not travel to the end of the shelf where the antique clock his Aunt had left him was sitting.
Crash Boom! The clock shook off and was broken.
I looked on the internet and found that the clock was worth $300 in perfect condition and about $100 in the condition it was in. (cracked and missing parts)
None in recent history had been sold for more than $150 in the last 30 years or so.
The HO wanted the full retail off of the bill.
I reminded him that he was told to remove all of the stuff but refused due to his expert knowledge.
I told him that I would give him $150 but would have to take the clock with me back to the shop or knock $100 off a a good will gesture and he could keep it.
He went for the $100.

Ever notice that every funny, sad, irritating customer story involves an engineer?

[Ohmy]

From time to time certain things do go wrong and that's all part of it. Sooner or later everyone has an accident and most of them are something small. The money to replace a broken vase should be considered as part of operating overhead. Don't think of it as money spent on this particular job but as money spread out over a period of time as an operating expense. You probably don't break a vase on every job but over a period of time there is a certian cost for incidentials and this is added to the total job cost. If you accomplish 20 jobs with only $200 in incidential cost then add $10 to every job to cover this cost.

If you have figured the cost of the panel change right then replacing the vase shouldn't be that big of a problem, it's just another expense to be prepared for ( and charged for ). :)

But my low overhead is whats keeping my prices sooo low :)

[LarryFine]

You should say "We both missed it, I'm very sorry, and I'll be happy to pay to replace it." She'll remember that for a long time.

This is one of those pivotal moments. The things that hang in the balance are good will, word-of-mouth publicity, and your conscience.

What you have to gain vs. lose is worth more than $170 any day. She may even counter with a 50/50 split, which is more than fair.

Let me guess: you used a reciprocating saw? If so, put the next $170 towards a Multi-master-style cutting tool.

[LarryFine]

Ever notice that every funny, sad, irritating customer story involves an engineer?Or a lawyer. 8-)

[WirenutNH]

Very similar thing happened to me doing kit remodel, existing shelf in place. above spot that we where working. I told customer that dishes and cups neded to be removed if they had any concern for them. customer removes most stuff and says she is al set and goes outside. I have to cut a couple of hole in sheet rock to fish new circuit above where new cab are to be placed, while cutting second hole under shelf dish comes off and hits me in head and breaks, customer is irrate and screams and yells that it was a collectable plate and that I should have been more carefull( never asking are you ok) So I asked to replace and she calms down and says don't worry about it. In hind sight I should have cleared off shelf myself to avoid issues.

[mivey]

...In hind sight I should have cleared off shelf myself to avoid issues.Let the customer handle their own valuables. What if you dropped one?

[dmagyar]

I had one situation where the customer wanted me to replace the existing pendant over a dining room table. I didn't even think about moving the glass table as it was heavy, but did place some cardboard over it's top as a precaution. Sure enough I screw driver slips and ends up hitting the cardboard, I did have a few moments of pause though before lifting up the cardboard to look at the table surface, no damage though.

From then on I mention in my scope of work that if anything that can be damaged is not removed from the area by the owner prior to the start of work that I'm not liable for any damage. I then mention it prior to the start of work to make sure that it's been covered.

In another estimate I heard the dreaded "be carefull with that, it's an heirloom" that was almost as bad as submitting a estimate to a couple who were both Lawyers, but I ended up not having to worry as they were expecting a estimate without any "Risk assesment" being added in.

[jjhoward]

Liability insurance?
I had a customer claim that we broke a Mustang console that was stashed in the basement where were running a sub panel feed.

None of my guys or I even saw the darn thing.

He came up with a price of $400.

My insurance got some pricing info from the cust and paid him.

Was the guy scaming me? Was the price too high?? Dunno.

Thank goodness for insurance.

[Article 90.1]

Buy her some flowers for the replacement vase and you'll really com up shining. I can just imagine what your Angies List comments would say then.

I too have begun requiring clients to remove pictures from areas (or behind areas) where we are working. I also ask them to secure firearms and other, well, lets just say sex toys if we have to move a bed and find their hiding spot. :D I sometimes ask them to move jewelry and purses, or wallets, too, but sometimes it sort of makes you look or feel guilty until proven innocent, if you know what I mean.

[zappy]

Lousy luck. I have had this happen with pictures on the wall.

Admit it, offer to pay for it and move on. I have found most times the customer will let it go.

Good advice.

[zappy]

I was working with my toolbelt on, and was installing some counter top outlets. Scratched the cabinet. GC says look what you did. Paid him 90 bucks and moved on. Won't do that again.

[LarryFine]

Paid him 90 bucks and moved on. Won't do that again.Yeah, I wouldn't pay the GC again either. 8-)

[jmellc]

Lousy luck. I have had this happen with pictures on the wall.

Admit it, offer to pay for it and move on. I have found most times the customer will let it go.
I agree, I would offer to buy a new one, or adjust the bill. That will save face for you even if it costs you $. Doing the right thing may help you keep their future business and they will be less likely to complain about you to others.

[LarryFine]

Yep. I'd rather know they tell people "He broke something, but replaced it (or offered to)," than "He broke something."

[gadfly56]

Ever notice that every funny, sad, irritating customer story involves an engineer?

Hey, I resemble that remark!!:grin: