GFI in a drawer?

[jjhoward]

Customer is asking for bathroom receptacles in the vanity drawer. Has anyone seen this type of install? Special cable? Any specific article that might address such a thing?

Thank you.

[George Stolz]

Here's a thread on it: Where's Midget these days? (http://www.mikeholt.com/cgi-bin/codeforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=005273;p=1#000 000)

I don't like the idea. :D

[electricmanscott]

Originally posted by georgestolz

I don't like the idea. :D [/QB]Because....?

[jimwalker]

I see no safe way to do this.Did do it once with sj cord ,mounting receptacle in a handybox on back of drawer and sj from it to a j box.Was not my idea and did it as directed from my boss.Far from a good idea but rich people want what they want.Can you use the option of JUST SAY NO ?wish i could have

[bigjohn67]

We have done this many times, but not with SJ rather SO. If the customer wants it and it is to code I see no problem with it. Now we did put a 20 amp twist lock outlet and cord cap along with a gfi breaker.

[jjhoward]

Thanks George,
I guess some dumb ideas just won't go away! :roll:
Jim: sj cord? What is it?
Bigjohn: SO instead of SJ? Can you pls explain to this rooky?
Thank you much.

Joe

[hurk27]

I don't think a receptacle would count as serving the vanity top? Just as in the kitchen where you have an appliance garage the receptacle in these do not cound as the required receptacles in the wall space count.

210.52(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop. I don't think "adjacent to the basin or basin countertop" means under it? :roll:

[jjhoward]

I agree Wayne,
I would install another outlet at the counter.

[charlie]

SO is cord that is listed for extra hard service. The J in SJO stands for junior so it is for hard service but not quite as hard as SO. The O stands for oil resistant and the S stands for service. Therefore, SJO is "junior hard service cord that is oil resistant." I trust someone will correct me if I am not correct since I am shooting from the lip.

By the way, #12 SO cord looks like black water hose. :D

[jimwalker]

[/QUOTE] 210.52(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop.

seems to me with that wording it could well be under the counter top,actually the true OUTSIDE EDGE is under the counter.Sure thats not what they had in mind but not our fault if they can not write what they mean. :D

[hurk27]

I should add that the 2005 changed the wording to allow plug mold under the front lip of the sink, or in the side of the cabinet. So you might get away with it under the new wording? :p

[jjhoward]

Thanks Charlie. Still not certain how I am going to handle this one. I think the idea of running plug mold along the underside of the counter top (over the space for the drawer) is one possible solution provided there is sufficient clearance for the plug mold. Still scratching my head...(risking getting splinters!)

[jjhoward]

Thanks Hurk.
I was not aware of that 2005 NEC change in wording. Still uncertain how to go here. If I get an outlet in the damn drawer, I may still have an outlet at the counter. Just seems that one should be there. I've been in so many bathrooms that have night lights in the basin receptical. I guess the night light in the drawer would be pretty silly. Sure, then the owner would want a switch that shuts off the light when they close the drawer (like the fridge light)! :D

Joe

[luke warmwater]

To add to Charlies post,

SO would be rated 600v while
SJO would be rated 300v.

[George Stolz]

Hmm. Wonder if 400.8(A) will hamper the SO cord theory. :)

[tx2step]

Maybe it would qualify under 2005 NEC 400.7(A)(9) as connection of moving parts?

It's a receptacle that "moves" with the drawer?

[bigjohn67]

We use SO because its more durable. The outer covering is alot thicker.

As far as this being the only outlet, as stated before, a Wall outlet is required.

This outlet in a draw is extra. Our customers usually use them to plug in cordless razors and such so they wont be cluttering up the counter space.

[George Stolz]

400.8(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structureIn my opinion, the SO cord violates this code. It is installed as permanent wiring. The h/o isn't planning on using it for a short time. It's there for good. It's being substituted for fixed wiring in that structure.

Why not use LFNC? It's legal and has allowances for installations where flexibility is required. 356.10(A), 356.30(2).

[ March 23, 2005, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

[jjhoward]

Hi George,
I see the LFNC being OK as far as conduit is concerned. But I am concerned about the conductors. How will they last? Stranded or solid, somewhere along the lenght of the conduit won't the conductors be getting flexed?

[George Stolz]

For starters, I'm just thinking out loud, I haven't tried this stunt. Bear that in mind. And thanks for overlooking my typo, I'll fix that. :)

[luke warmwater]

I personnally don't mind the idea of using a SO cord/plug for a receptacle in the drawer.

George, I understand your reasoning with regards to 400.8(1) ...'fixed wiring'

But the drawer is made to be removed, and I think I like the idea of being able to unplug this receptacle to remove the drawer, when needed (for whatever reason you'd want to remove it).

[George Stolz]

Todd, that's an aspect I hadn't thought of--I assumed a permanent connection to the drawer via SO cord.

If the SO had a cord cap on it, plugged into an outlet cut into the back of the cabinet, then that would alleviate the "fixed wiring" issue, in a large way. Now there is a short extension cord in the back of the drawer. That's legal, as far as I can tell. :D

Edit to add: I do like benaround's idea of a switch to kill the receptacle when the drawer is closed. Genius. :D

Edit again, to bold for the cheap seats. :D

[ March 24, 2005, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

[luke warmwater]

But does the light actually go out when the drawer is closed?
:p

[hurk27]

But does the light actually go out when the drawer is closed? Nope it just starts emitting darkness. :D

I think the idea of the receptacle as a disconnect has merit, but how many times will it take opening and closing the drawer before it wiggles the plug out? Twist lock anyone?

[ March 24, 2005, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

[luke warmwater]

I'll go along with your twistlock idea.

[jfls41]

I used to use "SO" cord all the time wiring up automation controls on industrial machinery. It was great for use in oily and greasy areas. I would run it through liquidtite anytime it was used around scrap metal or other sharp metal falling onto it.

[bigjohn67]

George
How would this be permanent wiring when the SO has a cord cap on it that plugs into a receptical in the cabinet?
Sorry, but I think you are wrong.

If the draw is removed, simply unplug the assembly from the "permanently" installed outlet located within the cabinet.

It is no different than installing an outlet in an upper cabinet over a stove to plug in a microwave/hoodvent.

Think about it.

Hurk
If you read my first post. We use Twist lock for this application.

[ March 24, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: bigjohn67 ]

[George Stolz]

Originally posted by bigjohn67:
George
How would this be permanent wiring when the SO has a cord cap on it that plugs into a receptical in the cabinet?
Sorry, but I think you are wrong. John, you can't think I'm wrong, we're saying the same thing. :D :D

[charlie]

I certainly don't like the idea but if proper strain relief were installed and a twist lock plug and receptacle were used, I don't see a big problem for the appliance "electrified drawer". Now all you need is a listing. :D

[George Stolz]

While I agree with the sentiment, the drawer thing would only have to be approved, not listed, right? It would be composed of listed materials, like anything else is.

[charlie]

Yep, the intent was tongue in cheek. :D

[George Stolz]

Charlie, I once again fall victim to your dry wit. :D

[jjhoward]

You guys are killing me here. Geez, a listed electrical appliance drawer. Ok, you got me hook line and sinker.