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[rich000]

I see a lot of people busting different manufactures (Lightolier) and suppliers (Home Depot).

My question is: What is wrong with this equipment or suppliers?

Home Depot carries the same parts (Carlon boxes, etc.) as the local supply house and it is more convenient. Also, if the equipment is UL listed, isn't it safe?

[ryan_618]

Hello Rich
Could you be a bit more specific please? busting them for what?

[gregoryelectricinc]

Busting their chops I assume?. I, for one, am guilty of being biased against home depot for business purchases. I use them as a last resort to find a tough item on occasion. Please keep in mind that I have no problem purchasing my household supplies for projecta around my OWN home from them. The reason I feel this way is I have seen them in their warehouses on sat. and sun. afternoon teaching homeowners how to do my job. I will not support a supplier who will hold a seminar (free of charge) to teach my customers how to avoid hiring me. :mad:

[dan55]

Hit it on the head ,Greg.

[dan55]

(nail)

[russellroberts]

As far as convience goes, I can call my supplier at 4 o'clock in the pm,be 30 miles away and tell him I need another 200' of conduit or whatever I might need,(within reason of course) and he'll bring it to me.

If I can't pay my bill in full or at all by the 10th,no problem,no interest.

If I need some off the wall part,he'll try his best to get it for me.

Service and accomadation go a long way with me.

Russell

[rich000]

Thank you all for your input.

[charlie k.]

Rich, the biggest problem I have with home depot is the so called professionals. Most know nothing. I went there once and asked if they had any 250 foot rolls of 12-2 mc only to be told it could not be manufactored in lenghts greater than 100'. Another time I went in for a roll of #12 yellow and was told I did not need yellow but any color would work. I know that but I won't change my standards. Two area suppliers close to my home have a second shift to load and unload trucks and do wire cuts. I have been able to go in there as late as 10 pm to get what I need.

[-marty]

I did't take a picture or I would try to post it of a service a homeowner did per instruction from home depot. It was a mess. The indoor service wire came out the bottom of the metermain, no connector, made a large arc, no supports, and than went into the attic, no protection. Of course, the homeowner thought my price to fix it was too high. Oh well.

[brian john]

One issue I have with home depot is they sell the bread and butter of supply houses, 2x4's, NM, BX and boxes, this limits the supply house income, hurts local businesses and limits the supply houses from carrying a larger stock due to the loss of income from their main money makers. Home depot has a larger buying power for these items, due to athe larger purchases they can make. This is the walmarting of America. Is this wrong? I don’t like it!

[russellroberts]

Brian, if you're wrong,I'll be wrong with you!

Russell

[electricmanscott]

It's called CAPITALISM

[peter d]

Thank you Scott! I like competition. It forces the suppliers to lower their prices and improve their service. There is always a supplier out there willing to take your money.

[maverick the electrician]

Dealing with supply houses and being a loyal customer can bring your prices down drastically. I never go to Home Depot anymore unless I have an emergency. I started out buying almost everything from them when I started 8 years ago. Now my supply house prices are alot lower than the Depot.

[michael nye]

Go ahead and let homeowners think they can do service changes ect.. when they go to sell and a Home Inspector finds it they can pay me then.

[tvgaconsultants]

I understand the need to say that HD does not always have skilled people within the confines fo their stores, but the choice is yours as to who you purchase your product from. I personally think that HD does OKAY job. If you think that homeowners are taking your job away I say grow up. This country is based on the principals of freedom. If they burn their house down becuase they are stupid and do not learn enough to install electrical properly then I say oh well. Personally I teach anyone who has a willingness to learn the proper way to preform an electrical install. If I am wrong or taking your job I say make a change.

[jfw11]

I wnet to Lowes (the other "Home Depot") to get some #4 bare copper and pipe clamps to do the bonding of the ground in the main circuit breaker cabinet to various pipes that the dofus who "wired" my kid's newly purchased "fixer-upper" neglected to do (or more precisely, ripped out).

The guy in front of me was arguing with the store employee. He wanted to get some of that white conduit to hold the 100A underground feeder he was going to put in. The employee explained that the gray pvc was conduit and the white stuff was sewer line. This went on for minutes. When he left, I asked the employee to cut a 10' peice of #4.

I them mentioned that the previous customer appeared to me to be an idiot, that that the cost of the conduit was swamped by the cost of the wire. He agreed with me and told me that he was a licensed electrician and always did things by the code.

After he cut the wire I asked him to help me fild a 20A AFCI breaker for a square-D HOME ... box. He said they were out of stock but that the Siemens breaker would fit it the box, so it should do just fine.

I restrained myself from asking him what the code said about mixing manufacturers boxes and breakers.

[don_resqcapt19]

jfw,
I think that if you check, you will find that the Siemens breakers are "classifed" by UL for use in a Square D panel. There is no code violation when classifed breakers are used per the UL classification.
Don

[hillbilly]

Only Square D breakers will fit Square D panels, at least in the QO and Homeline variety.

[brian john]

There is nothing wrong with capitalism, Hell I'm an entrepreneur (not Manure). The mega stores have a practice (and have been sued for this) of under pricing driving small locals out of business. Then prices rise.

Also the home depot does not sell most of the products my firm utilizes. As mentioned above they’re selling the bread and butter products under cut locals that end up limiting their stocks.

BUT>>>>>>>>>> In some case small independents are starting to recognize this and only sell the non-stock products. This requires the sales persons to know their products.

[brandon]

Before i beaqcme an electrician I actually worked at the Home Cheapo. I can see both sides of everyones arguments. I do strongly agree that they do have a lot of so called "trained professionals".Well their trained professionals in the electrical department think they are electricians and they are not. The rules there state that they can not give out code references or in fact tell you how to wire your house or anything else for that matter. I have known a few inspectors that go the home Cheapo and bust the chops of the manager for allowing the employees to give out advice. I now have fixed many jobs where a homeowner has installed things as per home Cheapo. For me some things are just plain old less expensive there. But most of the high dollar items I buy from the supply houses. I do what is best to make my company and myself the most money. Lowest price on materials wins!

[racraft]

Here's the bottom line. As long as there are places with better hours AND better prices than distributors, there will be customers to buy from those places.

I'm a homeowner. I'm also an engineer. I do certain electrical work myself. Why should I go out at my lunch hour to buy from a distributor and pay top dollar, when I can go to any number of discount stores on Saturdays or Sundays or evenings and pay less money.

I don't go to those stores for the advice, or even solicit advice there.

If you have a good rapport with your supplier, and you are loyal to your supplier they will assign a discount code to you. Ask for the "government discount" or such. Get a matrix of what your discount is off End Column. End Column is the standard contractor's "discount". End Column is higher than government pricing. Home Center (big box) electrical supply pricing is closer to government pricing on most items. You should be able to get pretty near 50% off of End Column for most items if you have the right supplier and they like and trust you. Getting on a lower pricing schedule can slow you down if you have to always deal with your inside rep and s/he has to discount each item manually for you. Look for a supplier that uses automated methods for calculating your discounted prices. The time you lose waiting for discount calculations can neutralize any discount you are getting. Best bet is to fax your shopping list ahead so your rep can discount it, and have it boxed and ready for you at the Will Call counter (or delivered to you). I am speaking from the perspective of a small shop. Your mileage may vary. Happy trails!

../Wayne

[ This post was spell checked with ieSpell (http://www.iespell.com) prior to submission. I own the grammar and punctuation mistakes. ]

[brian john]

AWWT:

In my case price is not important, having access to a large variety of material is (we do not bid work). Supply houses claim that Home Depot has put a pinch on their ability to stock a large variety as explained above. In addition (in our area) it seems that the older supply house employees are retiring and the newer ones, have limited knowledge of material (circuit breakers, switchgear, MCC's, ect.) Much like their counter parts at Homey!

[ty]

Originally posted by hillbilly:
Only Square D breakers will fit Square D panels, at least in the QO and Homeline variety. hillbilly, Cutler Hammer also makes a UL listed replacement breaker for QO loadcenters.

[ty]

Originally posted by brandon:
Before i beaqcme an electrician I actually worked at the Home Cheapo. brandon, whate store #?

Well their trained professionals in the electrical department think they are electricians and they are not. [/QUOTE]

This is not necessarilly true. They do have some licensed electricians that work or have worked for the company.

The rules there state that they can not give out code references or in fact tell you how to wire your house or anything else for that matter. I have known a few inspectors that go the home Cheapo and bust the chops of the manager for allowing the employees to give out advice. [/QUOTE]

This is true. They sometimes get around this by stating, "this is how I have done it." People need to take responsibility as to where they shop for advice. And would be wise to get a second or third opinion.


Home Depot is based towards the DIY. period.
They do offer contractors a limited service, such as delivery and will-call service. Sometimes they will have good pricing on certain products.
They do not cater to commercial wiring at all. They don't carry motor starters, 3-phase breakers, etc...
There next big move in the Electrical department (27) is in the home network/automation section. But where is the training for all of the components?

They are what they are. I love the place for certain things. I bought silicone caulk there the other day along with a new soap despencer for my kitchen sink, and new line for my weed trimmer.

[hurk27]

I think the smartest contractor is one who shops around and knows what to buy as well as what not to buy we should be the ones that should know as what is a good price and what is good quality and be able to pass these saving down to our customers and this will get you a good word of mouth references and more work. Unless you dont want more work?

[cselectric]

I see plenty of room in the market for all players. I use Home Depot quite frequently. They are a great source for items such as Ceder posts, plywood for backer boards, drywall screws etc. They also keep late hours which has bailed me out of many an afterhours jam. And yes, they do have good prices on many electrical items, which has to be considered if one is interested in profit.

On the other hand, price is but one variable. I'm also a very big fan of service. The supply house that receives a lions share of my business does so based on service. I deal directly with the manager, get free delivery on my schedule (they request a 1-2 hour window,) get free delivery of parts on an emegency basis (show me the home depot that can put a pair of 20A NQOD shunt trips in my hands in 45 minutes,) and I get competitvie pricing (especially when I take advantage of the managers "I'll beat anyones best price" routine on large orders.)

The way I look at it, Home Depot is great at what they do, and a good resource for me. But they do not offer the ability to forge a personal working relationship the way a good supply house does.

Originally posted by hurk27:
I think the smartest contractor is one who shops around and knows what to buy as well as what not to buy we should be the ones that should know as what is a good price and what is good quality and be able to pass these saving down to our customers <snip> Call me crazy but when I am on a Time & Materials or Cost-Plus job I treat the job as I would my own funds. I shop hard for my clients. I charge them for my shopping time, but I bring cost-effective net savings to them by keeping an eye out for the best value for them. I do not treat T&M or Cost-Plus as an open checkbook with signed blank checks. If my client is not too picky about price I don't stress out on pricing but I still try to bring my client the best value regardless of whether it's on "my" dime or "their" dime. I feel I have a moral and fiduciary responsibility to be forthcoming with honest good-faith pricing. I believe in ample mark-up but I also believe in being upfront about mark-up and basing it on the best value not just a price that's easy for me.

../Wayne

[charlie tuna]

let me say this---i agree that compitition is required to keep suppliers in line!! last friday i called my salesman about job due to be schedualled the first week in september - and it was almost three oclock - this is a $23,000. job that requires nothing but two or three invoices from the supplier! the answer i got was "i'll get back to you monday or tuesday"!!! a week ago i went by to pick up a few three light electronic ballasts -- they had none! well give me four lighters and i'll eat the cost difference==they did'nt have them neither!!! that same day they had "none" - ya - "zero" number twelve blue wire. a month ago the didn't have 1/2 single gang switch rings!!! and when they sell you 100 fixtures and a ballast goes out after two weeks and you stop by to swap out the ballast -- they look at you like your "holding the place up"? home depot is competitively priced on those items carried - i would rather buy from supply houses but somebody's got to keep them in check!!!!!!!!!!!

[iwire]

Charlie looks like we get the same quality service.

I was running around one day trying to clear some punch list items and needed some basic items, but I wanted to make one supply house stop so I drive out of the way to one of our suppliers main distribution warehouse, at least a 200,000 sq foot warehouse.

No 1" PVC Male adapters, no 1000' foot spools of the MC I needed, when I say to the counter guy that there must be some 1" MAs back there I get looked at like I am nuts.

At a large GE supply no green 8 THHN, although they offered me green 4 awg for the price of 4 awg. Thanks for the help :roll: :roll:

I am constantly wasting time due to the suppliers, Home Depot is a big time saver for me.(they had the green 8 awg and the MAs)

Bob

[big john]

I was in a Home Depot the other day picking things up for an around the house project. They had a display up entitled "Wiring Your Panel" or some nonsense like that:
One hot leg to the main breaker, the other hot leg to one of the buses, grounded conductor to the other bus, I guess that's why they removed the bonding jumper. :roll: The ground line under a fender washer held on by one of the screws used to mount the panel. The individual feeder conductors themselves came in through 3/4 NM connectors at the top of the panel. One wire per connector. It was almost funny, the only way they could've possibly made it more backwards was if they'd done all the terminations in zip cord.

I'd hate to be the poor guy that went to reinstall his meter after putting in a service via those instructions. :eek:

-John

[bclymer]

The only thing I use "Home Depot" and "Lowes" for is to keep the price at the suppliers in comparison. Our suppliers in upstate New York(Friedman or Robson) usually have what we need or can have it the next day. They go out of the way to help me so I will go out of my way to support them. 99.9% of the time when I have called "Home Depot" or "lowes" to ask about stock the other end of the phone is Clueless(not my end)

[squaredwholesaler]

Your supplier should be alot cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot. Also you might want to check the net, there are many sources where you can get electrical supplies and gear for almost half the price.

[romex jockey]

true, Barnett (http://www.e-barnett.com/) is one i use.

I see some suppliers are boycotting what the big orange place is peddaling, fat lotta good thier XX amount of (manufacturer's)sales loss is going to affect HD's XXXXXXXXXXXXX sales eh?

I've also noted licensed help in the HD 'lectrical dept, gee...how many suppliers can honestly say that?

yanno, capitalism is an animal that eats itself, and there are 3 basic axioms to which allows this

Good~Fast~Cheap

These are constantly juggled as to marketability, one doesn't need to be a biz major to grasp the concept here, we as EC's play with this every day

If your a residential EC, and you haven't had to deal with the HD crowd, your probably fairly isolated

an EC's job is to make $$$, so like it or lump it, we've gotta interface with this growing faction

turn it into a $$$ for yourself i say, it helps ease the frustration of it all