Supply house prices!?

[cwsolo]

Just wondering how your pricing compares from supply houses to Home Depot or Lowes...?
I mentioned in my last post that I am a new contractor in FL, I have set up accounts at CES and CED, the prices they are giving me are a few cents higher that home depot on almost everything. Is this the norm? Is it because I don't have the volume of purchasing of a big contractor? or Is it because they are taking advantage of me? I flat out asked them when opening the accounts if their prices would be better that the large retailers and they said, "oh yes they should be." I can't help but wonder because I see a lot of larger EC's getting materials at the large retailers.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I am under the impression that they are WHOLESALE supply houses and the others are RETAILERS I would think that all EC's would go to a wholesaler, and the implication given is that the prices should be considerably lower?

[petersonra]

Around here Menards is usually less then HD or Lowes.

The problem is that none of these stores sell a complete line of anything. Also a lot of supply houses often free delivery. You have to figure that into the equation.

But you probably cannot consistently beat the big box store prices unless you are buying in large enough quantities.

<added>
I recently bought some ordinary BLine strut from my favorite supply house. Only a thousand feet or so. Had to pay over $2 a foot for it. Ouch! Stuff is getting pricey.

[ July 24, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: petersonra ]

[growler]

I'm going to get slamed on this one. Home Depot sell more electrical supplies than most supply house chains, by doing a volume business they can by thier materials cheaper than the supply house and on many small items let you have a better deal. They still make a profit. But don't think that the local Home Depot is cheaper on every thing. They know what the suchers want and that is bait. They will nail you on some items. They did really get people on MC cable and service cable , straps , fittings. I try to buy what I know I'm going to need from the supply house and pick up the little things at Home Depot. Save time & gas.

[ceb]

I deal with a local CED and they give me their STAR pricing however I pay cash for all my material they have different pricing levels the price they charge you for material because you are charging the material on your account it will be higher because they are carrying you through the billing cycle. however, even at a cash price they cannot beat big blue on wire due to the volume they buy in

[electricmanscott]

I don't regularly price check my supplier against anyone else. Even if they are a little higher the loyalty and service are well worth it. When I need it they get it. Real contractors use real suppliers! :p There have been times that I've gone to the Depot or Lowes with a list of ten items and guaranteed I will leave with no more than seven. Ask an employee why they don't have something or if they can get and then decide for yourself if you want to deal with this everyday. :mad: For the record I use CLS and have for ten+ years almost exclusively.

[stud696981]

Here in the Detroit area, Lowes and Home Depot beat any supply house, regardless of the volume you buy from them. I have a buddy that works at one, and he gets an employee discount that beats the best contractor price, and guess what, most items he cannot even get Lowes or Home Depots everyday price.

I went into the supply house last month and asked for a Square D QO 100amp Double pole breaker used for feeding a subpanel. They charged me $55 plus tax. I told the guy behind the counter he was way too high and that Lowes had it for $28. He told me I was wrong and to take it or leave it. Well he was right, I was wrong, Lowes had it for $25 plus tax. So I bought it at Lowes and took it along with the receipt back to the supply house. I showed the counter guy, who in turn got the manager out. The manager said that price was way below their cost. He also said that they are loosing business to Lowes and Home Depot since they cannot compete with their prices.

I spoke with another EC who told me that unless he needs a specific item, or doesn't have time to wait in line, he goes to Lowes and Home Depot as well.

[jeff43222]

I've been noticing this lately, too. I prefer to buy at the supply houses because they usually have what I need, and the guys at the counter know what they are doing. But the price difference is not something I really want to ignore.

I just bought a 250' roll of 12-2 NM at Graybar for 42.05 + tax, while the local Menards had it for 33.90 + tax. I also bought a Carlon Romex spooler at Menards for $50 after Graybar said they didn't have them. I took the box into Graybar and showed it to the counter guys, and they couldn't even find the part number in their Carlon catalog. Kinda weird that the wholesale house is behind the curve on new products.

The retail places have better hours, better prices (usually), and the convenience of being able to look through the bins to find what you want. On the other hand, the wholesale houses have knowledgeable staff, much better selection (usually), and tools that the retail places don't stock since only pros usually buy them.

I wish I could shop only at the wholesale houses, but it's just not feasible to buy everything there.

[shocker3218]

I usually stock up on romex at Menards when they have a sale. Hard to beat 14-2 romex at $19/250 ft. Home depot in my area does not even cary devices in light almond color. I usually get all devices, boxes, recessed cans, trims and bulbs from the supply house. A good working relationship and prompt payments yield me some pretty good prices. And when I do commercial work, the supply house is obviously the only way to go.

[patrick]

Home Cheapo is usually cheaper on there romex,I only use them if I'm in a jam,they only have two rows of products the supply house has a warehouse of electrical products with a staff,to me its not worth driving across town to save a couple of bucks on basic resi material,if your buying bulk like 6,000 15 amp outlets or pallets of romex thats worth looking into.After home depot and lowes put every mom and pop out of buisiness it seems to me their prices went up,not enough cashiers,tougher return policy,hiring meatheads in the eletrical dept,selling zipcord to HO so they can install outlets.How would you like to buy that house?

[George Stolz]

...the supply house has a warehouse of electrical products with a staff...

...(Retailers are) selling zipcord to HO so they can install outlets.How would you like to buy that house? This kind of thinking has popped up a couple of times now.

A qualified electrician pops into a supply house to get some materials and advice. Now, I've done it--you encounter a unique problem, and wonder if there is some new widget behind the counter to cope with the situation. Often, there is, and a "knowledge supply house staff" can assist in that situation.

But to turn around and level that standard against the retailer and get ticked when the staff isn't up to that level is silly, IMO. And to expect them to police their sales to H/O's is equally silly. That's what the store is there for, is H/O's. I doubt that in a store with mountains of romex, an employee would recommend zip-cord over romex--the H/O came in for zip cord, who's to stop him?

If electricians can use the retailer and get a better deal on this or that, that's capitalism. It may bring up ethical questions that each EC will have to address according to their own values. If that causes someone to avoid purchasing a pallet of romex from a retailer to pay a higher price, then that difference paid is an EC's charitable donation to local business, which is both understandable and commendable. If someone can't afford that donation, I wouldn't look down on them. It's a different choice for everyone.

Walking in with your nose in the air and treating the staff at a retailer like 'meatheads' is your perogative. I call it rude. :)

And I've seen supply house guys shell out some pretty shady advice too, their feces smell as bad as anyone elses.

[petersonra]

Originally posted by stud696981:
I went into the supply house last month and asked for a Square D QO 100amp Double pole breaker used for feeding a subpanel. They charged me $55 plus tax. I ordered some 2 pole Square breakers recently (QO215). Our supplier only charged us $17 for them. Maybe you need a new supplier.

[hardworkingstiff]

Originally posted by petersonra:

I ordered some 2 pole Square breakers recently (QO215). Our supplier only charged us $17 for them. Maybe you need a new supplier.
There is a big price jump at 60 amp. I believe I saw QO215 breakers at HD and Lowes for about $15-$16.

It is hard for me to buy at a higher price than my customer can at the big boxes, then mark up the material for a profit, and charge my customer.

[growler]

There is another consideration when pricing breakers and that is ( AIC ) rating. Supply houses will often give you the better quality with the higher (AIC) rating if the are out of El-Cheap-O. If the price seems high and you are doing residential, check the rating and make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If you are doing commercial, Pay the price and give them the quality product ( and charge for it ).

[petersonra]

Originally posted by hardworkingstiff:
[quote]Originally posted by petersonra:

It is hard for me to buy at a higher price than my customer can at the big boxes, then mark up the material for a profit, and charge my customer. Most customers are not going to care how much you mark up your material. They look at the overall cost. As far as I am concerned, you can charge $50 for an outlet, if the labor is "free".

[growler]

Petersonra, I work it like this on mark up. If I charge $25 for a $10 dollar breaker I have sold it to the customer. If it goes bad anytime in the first year, the replacement cost is free ( parts & labor ). If you purchase you own breaker and it goes bad I am only responsible for my work, the breaker warranty is up to ever who sold it to you, there will be a replacement charge unless there is a fault with the way it was installed ( loose connection or something and I've never had one yet). I do everything the same way, I take a lot of care on the installation so if anyone wants to buy a $19 ceiling fan, that's all-right with me.

[kitsr]

In ref. to cwsolo post as to where to buy material.
In my area I mostly buy from CED or Rexel but I have found, believe it or not that the price difference of 12/2 romex 250 feet is $28.00 less at ACE than the suppliers.
I live in a small town so it is worth a trip to ACE for some things,but not all.
I do buy 90% of my supplies from suppliers.
"shop wisley".

[luke warmwater]

I agree with Scott.
Stick with one supplier for the most part.
There are times you will need another, such as if your main supplier doesn't carry a particular brand or item.

There are perks when dealing with one supplier, and especially one salesman.
I can call or fax in an order to my salesman and know it will be pulled promptly and correctly.
My salesman knows most of the materials that I use. I can order weatherproof duplex covers, and he knows which style and color. I can order a case of single pole 15's and he knows what I want.

How much do you pay yourself or someone else to stand in line at the homecenter?
How many times is an item on your list going to be in the overhead. Spend time looking for someone, show them what you want, they go look for a ladder, 15 minutes later they come back.
And then if you have to return something there, that could be an hour of time.

As much as homecenters are all about customer service, I don't feel that you will get the 'same' customer service as dealing with a supply house.

[bigjohn67]

We stick with the supplier. We have a good relationship with them. Supplier salemen will help you more so they can sell volume which means more commission for them.

As far as a HO asking for advise on how to install. The Orange Box employee sells a customer an outlet. Customer ask how to put it in. Customer takes Joe retailers advice and attempts to make repairs himself. Now the wife is with him at the purchase. Customer gets electricuted at home during attempted repairs from advice of Joe retailer (who was flipping hamburgers the month before). Wife sues. Just as a liscensed electrician can be charged with a crime resulting in death from repairs, so can the big box for giving advise/instruction on how to repair.

It is my firm believe that if the big box is located in a area that requires electrical liscense's, electical items should be off limits to be purchased by the general public. And before yall Bark at this, try going to purchase an A/C condenser, coil or freon without a liscense. Why should electrical equipment be treated any different?

[stud696981]

As far as I know you only need a license to purchase freon because spilling it into the atmosphere causes damage to the ozone layer. I could be wrong on this, but I think everything else you can buy.

As far as DIYs go, there are some competent ones out there that know what they are doing and know their limits. I have actually seen some nice electrical work from DIYs who read books on it, watched videos, etc. I have also seen a lot of very poor and unsafe installs as well.

Now to say that someone should have a license to purchase electrical parts can be a little bit of a stretch. Think about the things you have done around your house or on your car. If you would have called in a professional, it would have required a license. However to save some money you did it yourself. If everyone had to hire a licensed person to do every job out there, there would be a lot of people in the poor house. For example in my area to be an auto mechanic you need to be licensed for that type of work. If you knew how to change a set of spark plugs, battery, belt, etc........would you really want to have to call a licensed mechanic because you couldn't buy the parts? If one of your faucets starts dripping and needs new seals, would you really want to pay a plumber to come in and change them for $200? Just some food for thought.

[macmikeman]

Here is my answer about supply houses. Keep em solvent. They sure are handy when 3 phase equiptment is what you are after. Try finding a 3 pole bolt on circuit breaker in Home Depot or Lowes. Or a replacement heater for a contactor. I try to support my favorite supply house first, and then if they are closed I will head to the big orange.

[chelectrical]

Great thread!

I have several thoughts on this topic:

1.Re. DIYers
I have seen alot of DIY work and the vast majority of it is flat out unsafe and wrong. A few DIY jobs were okay but even they had some part of the installation that was not up to snuff (or code).
I have been in HD and heard the unquallified people working there giving out bad advice like it was gospel. Last week I heard one telling a HO to just take down the old light fixture and put the ceiling fan on the same box. Unquallified people should not be giving advice on electrical installations or doing electrical installations.

2.Re. Supply House prices
I much prefer supply houses (especially locally owned, or at least American owned). But I don't like having to constantly check to see if I'm getting a good price from them. It seems the prices sometimes change depending on who takes my order at the counter. I try to use the same supplier as much as possible but I have found that the prices actually seem to go up when you're a regular and stop comparing prices with other suppliers.

3.Re. Big Boxes
They sure are convenient but I also think they use the tactic of making certain items so cheap (that they actually lose money selling them) as a hook to get people coming in to the store. Their selection and stock are certainly lacking in several areas. I find that I have to be very careful to buy new material that has not previously been opened.

It's real hard, and time consumig, to always find the best prices. I think it is no coincidence that it is so difficult to comparison shop. The retailers and wholesalers like it this way.

Wouldn't it be nice to go online and get prices . I guess there must be some reason why we can't.

[petersonra]

Originally posted by stud696981:
As far as I know you only need a license to purchase freon because spilling it into the atmosphere causes damage to the ozone layer. Being a cynic, I am inclined to believe the reason real freon was banned was because the patent had expired. Or that could just be a coincidence.

[cselectric]

One of the hard, fast business rules I follow is "take care of those who take care of you." Based on that, I buy a vast majority of my materials through CED Interstate. Our local branch has always been there for me when I needed a favor. They've driven better than 100 miles round trip to deliver to me, they've eaten the cost on overnight shipping on products their computer said were in stock, they've done same day delivery, in short they have gone the extra mile. Do I pay a few pennies more than if I shopped at big orange? I'm sure I do on some items. But will Home Depot do any of the above mentioned favors for me? Not a chance.

[petersonra]

Originally posted by cselectric:
One of the hard, fast business rules I follow is "take care of those who take care of you." Based on that, I buy a vast majority of my materials through CED Interstate. Our local branch has always been there for me when I needed a favor. They've driven better than 100 miles round trip to deliver to me, they've eaten the cost on overnight shipping on products their computer said were in stock, they've done same day delivery, in short they have gone the extra mile. Do I pay a few pennies more than if I shopped at big orange? I'm sure I do on some items. But will Home Depot do any of the above mentioned favors for me? Not a chance. You have made a decision for yourself that it is worth the extra money to buy from someone who provides the type of service you want. Personally, I think you are missing out on the bargains that are available at the big box places, especially on commonly used itesm.

They do go out of there way to accomodate contractors. Most of these places will take phone orders and have the parts stacked on a skid waiting for you to come pick up. All you have to do is come get them and pay for them.

My inclination would be to stock up on the stuff they have that is most cost effective with a run there once a week for the stuff you use a lot of that they have, and use the expensive supply house for eveything else.

Keep in mind though that the free delivery offered by some supply houses is pretty hard to pass up. Your time going to pick the stuff up is valuable too.

[cselectric]

Yes, time is a valuable asset. Which figures heavily into my equation. Not only do I get free delivery, I get it on my schedule (within normal business hours) If I say 8AM, it's there by 8AM. No messing around in line, and no waiting around the job site for that one critical part that's on the truck, that's running late.

For what it's worth, it isn't just the big box stores I shy away from, I also avoid buying product from half of the local supply houses. I gave them all a shot, some jacked around with pricing, some thought 3PM was close enough to an AM delivery, some had a bad habit of back ordering commodity items they should always have in stock. The bottom line on that is yet another of those hard fast rules I follow: Never settle. I don't, and I don't expect my customers to either.

You are correct that I have chosen to pay more for a higher level of service. I'm comfortable with that. In fact, it makes a lot of sense, when you consider the fact that I market my company to those who are willing to pay more for a higher level of service. I don't work in the bargain basement, I don't shop there either. Overall it seems to balance itself out well enough to be profitable.

[ July 29, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: cselectric ]

[william runkle]

The Supply House is the refuge for the all around E.C. They have virtually everything motor starters lighting contactors, 480 volt devices and sleeve and pin receptacles. So I will pay a little more for non metallic sheathed cable for be waited on by a great staff and lot of times brought out to the truck. It makes you feel spoiled. Try this experiment go to Home Depot and ask for High Efficiency Fluorescent Luminaire with electronic ballast and T-5 Bulbs and then see the clerks expression then he will probably show you the fluorescent and maybe a 4 foot troffer with electronic ballast and uses T-8 bulbs. Then you just point at the ceiling and say you want the same fixtures they use in their store. I am sure the clerk will say we don't ever sell any and doesn't want to be bother to order it so he might say I have to take care of another customer. Now try that experiment in my local supplier and they will order as many as you need they do not keep these on hand but in three weeks it is here.

[peter d]

Originally posted by william runkle:
The Supply House is the refuge for the all around E.C. They have virtually everything motor starters lighting contactors, 480 volt devices and sleeve and pin receptacles. So I will pay a little more for non metallic sheathed cable for be waited on by a great staff and lot of times brought out to the truck. It makes you feel spoiled. Try this experiment go to Home Depot and ask for High Efficiency Fluorescent Luminaire with electronic ballast and T-5 Bulbs and then see the clerks expression then he will probably show you the fluorescent and maybe a 4 foot troffer with electronic ballast and uses T-8 bulbs. Then you just point at the ceiling and say you want the same fixtures they use in their store. I am sure the clerk will say we don't ever sell any and doesn't want to be bother to order it so he might say I have to take care of another customer. Now try that experiment in my local supplier and they will order as many as you need they do not keep these on hand but in three weeks it is here. All very good points. But the name of the store is HOME Depot. Carrying an industrial T-5 luminaire would be pretty pointless, don't you think?

[bigjohn67]

Another good point is to deal with the inside salesman instead of the counter guys.
Just as you help a steady customer, the inside guy will treat you the same way. The result is better pricing. I do not care what business you are in, you will take care of those who provide you a steady income. We often sit in the parking lot of the supply on the phone with the one inside sales man to make an order then walk inside and pick it up. You'd be amazed at the price difference from the counter guy.

Priced Emon meter:
counter guy: $650.00
Inside sales: $467.00
From the same company. Go figure.

[petersonra]

Originally posted by bigjohn67:
Another good point is to deal with the inside salesman instead of the counter guys.
very good point. the counter guys are really there to handle the nuts and bolts of the business and have little to say about pricing.

the account managers (or whatever they are called at your favorite place) have a lot more say in pricing. often the difference is astounding.

but, you have to buy enough stuff to make it worth the guy's time to deal with you.

for a small time operator, you probably won't find as many deals.

one thing I can suggest that almost always works IF you can afford to handle it (and it makes sense for your business model) is to buy things in skid load quantitys. the difference in price between buying one item at a time and 5000 is often times huge. but this is not practical unless you plan to use them over the next few months.

something that works a lot more often than you might think is to just ask your account manager for a better deal. this works best on a project by project basis. tell him you need to sharpen your pencil for this particular project and ask him to work with you on the pricing. account managers love this kind of thing for some reason.

[ July 30, 2005, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]

[kentirwin]

As I just stated in another thread - I'm not a contractor. I work at an industrial facility with both a Lowes and Home Depot within five minutes drive. I never buy anything from either one. However I used to on occasion. Every time I went "shopping" for 5 or 6 common items I'd come away with only three or four because the reminder was out of stock. :mad: I've developed a good relationship with my inside guy at a local supplier and he works his posterior area off for me as I throw $thousand orders at him constantly. When I call and ask him to bring me just some piddly item(s) in turn, he'll throw them in the car and bring 'em to me in the course of the day. Yeah, I could save a few $ on some common items at the Johnny Homeowner stores - if they HAVE THEM - but I prefer service and a knowledgeable staff.

[stud696981]

I think it all comes down to needs and time constraints.

I buy at the supply house regularly. But at least twice a month I go to Lowes or HD and buy a large quantity of items I use on a regular basis. It saves me big bucks and not a lot of time wasted when I only do this a couple of times a month.

[cselectric]

I was at the local big orange box today and saw something that led me to revisit this issue (or maybe I'm just that kid who can't resist poking the beehive with a stick... repeatadly :D

[redfish]

The company I work for has stuck with the same supplier and salesman for years, small and large orders. The only thing he can't get me is cuttler hammer, but I only use cuttler hammer for replacement breakers.The more money I spend, the more I save(sounds funny, but it's true). :)

[ September 06, 2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: redfish ]

[coppertreeelectric]

Stud
Here in the Detroit area, Lowes and Home Depot beat any supply house, regardless of the volume you buy from them. I have a buddy that works at one, and he gets an employee discount that beats the best contractor price, and guess what, most items he cannot even get Lowes or Home Depots everyday price.
Home Depot doesnt give employee discounts...

[tx2step]

Originally posted by coppertreeelectric:
Home Depot doesnt give employee discounts... Steven -- I think that he meant that his buddy works at an electrical supply house, but could still buy stuff cheaper at Lowes or HD than he could buy them from his employer.

[coppertreeelectric]

That makes more sense, I hadn't had my coffee yet..

[satcom]

Over here in NJ the local supply houses beat out the Box stores on almost everything the Box stores are 30 to 50% higher on almost everything except PVC pipe, EMT, some wire and cable, a few boxes, everything else is higher.

[jeff43222]

I've had a few experiences recently that have caused me to rethink this issue.

The other day I was at Graybar, waiting for my order to be filled and exchanging war stories with the new counter guy. A short while later, the supervisor comes up behind me and says, "I put all your stuff outside next to your truck, Jeff." No one at Big Orange or Menards even has any idea who I am, and even if they did, I doubt they'd provide service like that.

This morning, I went to Big Orange and Menards to try to pick up a 100A Siemens breaker on the way to a job. Menards doesn't carry Siemens CBs bigger than 60A, and Big Orange was out of them. On the way to the jobsite, I called a supply house I have an account with and asked if they had any. "Sure, we've got a bunch of them." I asked if there was any chance their delivery truck would be near my jobsite this afternoon. "No problem." As luck would have it, the truck rolled up just as I was going out to my truck to get the panelboard. That saved me at least an hour of driving/waiting. Supply house price was $36.70; Big Orange was 30.97 (if they had them in stock). For less than $5, I got what I wanted delivered. Just try and call Big Orange and have them run a single CB out to your jobsite for you.

Toward the end of the day, I was getting ready to install the GFCI receptacle I bought at Menards, and I found it curious that the yellow warning sticker was on the line screws instead of the load ones like it usually is. I pulled it off, only to discover that someone had unscrewed one of the screws, and used the warning tape to cover it up. When I returned to Menards, there were five people in front of me in the returns line. I don't think I've ever gotten anything from a supply house that some yahoo broke and then returned without saying anything about it. I did once get a bent stick of Sch.80 from a supply house for free when I told them I only needed about a foot to make a nipple, but that was just the counter guy helping me out.

Price isn't everything. I'm going to be shopping at the supply houses as much as possible from now on.

[George Stolz]

Originally posted by jeff43222:
The other day I was at Graybar, waiting for my order to be filled and exchanging war stories with the new counter guy... Below is a transcript of said conversation:
"Well, I was twisting this wire-nut on, and-"
"Did you pretwist the wires?" the counter guy said, his eyebrow quivering in an anxious, fretful tone.
"Why, yes," Jeff confidently replied as he helped himself to another complimentary doughnut, "As a matter of fact, I did." He gave the man a wink, and continued his story. "As I was twisting it on, I noticed a callous on my thumb and knuckle, from all the twisting I had been doing-"
"My God!" The counter guy gasped...

Continued on Page 286:D

Sorry, fellas, carry on... :D

[jeff43222]

George, do you have a spy working at Graybar? That's exactly what happened! You left out the part about how the counter guy fainted when he saw the red marks on my nose from the friction caused by my safety glasses. :D

Funny you should mention doughnuts. A few weeks ago they did give me an ice cream sandwich, just for being me. Tomorrow they are having an open house / trade show, with free broasted chicken lunch. Now that I think of it, I do get a lot of my sustenance at Graybar. I've never gotten any at Big Orange.

[stud696981]

When I was speaking about my buddy not being able to beat prices, he works for a local supply house....not HD or Lowes.