too big of a job

[southernboys]

Hey guys Im a 2 man shop that specializes in resi and service calls. I had a gc friend of mine call me and ask to take a look at doing a 3 story church for him. I told him over the phone that I was a small company. He said he didnt care was interested in me doing the job for him. Ive got some guys who I might be able to bring on in the evening. I also have another ec friend who is willing to help me with manpower and bidding. I would actually come under him since he has the more established company. My questions are this what percentage of the job should I ask him for? Would you consider taking on a job that you are too small for? Is 20 an hour a fair asking price for for myself? How much would you charge the other ec? Thanks in advance.

[macmikeman]

Southernboys let me give you my take. When I went into buisiness back in 1984 I started by doing service calls and bedroom additions for about 1 year. I just happened to meet a gc one day at a bar while waiting for my girlfriend of the time to get off work. We talked for a while and he asks if I want to bid a project. I said sure so he says come back next day and pick up plans. It was for 85 townhouses. I bid, got the job and started gaining wealth for the first time in my life. I have also done a 12.5 million dollar system integration project as the prime contractor. Nowadays I am back to service calls and bedroom additions by my choice. If you are young and have big kahones, not much to risk in the way of assets then why not? Just make sure you bid correctly.

[electricmanscott]

Originally posted by southernboys:
Is 20 an hour a fair asking price for for myself? If you mean dollars sure that's enough if you like working for nothing.
I think you know in your head this job is not for you. Go with your gut.

[hardworkingstiff]

SB,

I'm really confused. I thought I remember reading some posts from you wondering how to get more money because your boss promoted you to job super w/out the extra pay.

Then I read some posts where you said you were an electrical contractor with licenses and insurance.

Your profile says you're a commercial electrician, yet you appear to be more involved in residential.

Are there two similar names on this board?

Now to your question. If you have the time to put two people on this project full time, I would not think it is too large (unless you can only work a couple of hours a day on it). (It just dawned on me, are you employed and run a contracting business part-time?)

$20/hour is way too low (even for the South).

Rule of thumb is you need to charge at least twice what you pay an employee to cover the taxes and insurances and leave something for overhead. If you charge $20/hour, that means you are accepting $10/hour as pay. If you are willing to accept $10/hour, I've got some work for you, hell, I'll even give you the $20/hour if you provide workers comp certificate and accept a 1099, and you won't have time to work part-time.

Don't sell yourself short.

[charlie tuna]

two men can probibly do a church working full time--but whats gonna happen to your service work during this period of time. how far south are you--- i'm only 150 miles to key west (the southernmost point of the united states) and labor bids are in the neighborhood of 50 to 60 bucks an hour! soooooo i'm figuring at $20.00 an hour you are located somewhere around costa rica?

[GG]

Why did you even go into business for yourself if you are not willing to grow when the right job comes along? Hire the amount of men you think you will need to do the job. To involve your friend is a mistake, why let him come in and make all the money? If you are willing to work for him for $20.00 an hour then you might as well close up shop and go work for an electrical contractor for that same amount and get your medical ins., 401K, 2 weeks paid vacation, Christmas bonuses, etc.

[celtic]

$20/hr is an "off the books rate"....at least up north it is.

[southernboys]

Stiff you nailed it on the head. I am currently a fulltime employee for a contractor. In my spare time I do these service calls. I am licensed through the state of Al and carry the minimal amount of insurance. I have been trying to get at least one fulltime contractor. So thai I can breakout on my own. Ive been thinking residential side. This is because I can afford to get out on my own. Having this offer on my table is very tempting. However I can not afford to float the mony to pay myself and other men. Therefore I plan to allow my friend to come on board. As he is an allready established contractor. He has the ability to float me the mony and the credit at supply house to get material. In addition he has more bidding experience than I do. Thus it makes sense to use this job to teach me a lot about bidding. As far as the 20 an hour I see your point and will ask him for more. However I also plan on hotting him up for a percentage of his net from this job. Im thinking 20% is that a fair amount to both partys? Thanks for your replys

[electricmanscott]

Originally posted by GG:
Why did you even go into business for yourself if you are not willing to grow when the right job comes along? Not to threadjack but this is a silly statement.

[ July 21, 2005, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

[hardworkingstiff]

SB,

What if you got a price from your friend to do the job, and then you put 5%-10% on it and manage the project? No arguments about how much the job cost to work out.

Maybe you could get a price from him to do the rough in only, under your supervision, and you trim it out. Something along those lines with defined scopes of work would keep it clean.

Trying to bring him a job and let you work then splitting the profits up can get tricky, and it can also strain the relationship.

[GG]

You may think my statement was silly, but it was made from the fact that I dont know of 1 electrical contractor that is still in business that tried to stay small (i.e. a 2 man shop, you and a helper.) Its not going to happen long term. Yeah you may have a couple good years but the odds are against you. Sure you can start out small, but there comes a time when you have to expand. My statement was a reality of the business world. I have been in business long enough and worked for enough EC's to know who lasts and who doesnt and the little 2 man shops dont have what it takes to last long term.

[ July 22, 2005, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: GG ]

[GG]

[ July 21, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: GG ]

[macmikeman]

Golly GG, I have been 1 man since 1993. How long is before long?

[hardworkingstiff]

I started in 96 w/4 employees, quickly found out that me, myself, and I could do it better and have a simpler life. Been me, myself and I since then.

[charlie tuna]

gg,
i was in business for 25 years---had up to 23 men working for me at one time---then in 1993 i saw the light and cut back to a two man operation providing speciallized services to large office buildings----no work for general contractors!!!!
the last twelve years were great--no worries about money and all the work we wanted--we were happy and so were our customers! what else can you ask for?

[growler]

I agree with Macmikeman & Hardworkingstiff, you don't need a big shop to make a living or stay in business. The statistics for our state show that 90% of the EC's here are a 5 man shop or less. I think the normal is 1 electrician with 1 or 2 helpers and his wife doing the books ( at night I guess ). I have seen companies go bust when they tried to grow based on one job. It's better to be under staffed than over staffed, that's why so many EC's use Temps. Having said that, I think that southernboys should raise his rates and do the church as a T&M project. Churches are not places to give a flat bid on because too many people will have a say in the project. He should quit his job and start getting a weekly check from the church after putting in some long hours. If a contractor can't make it in Florida right now with all the work, he never will. As far a materials, he should get a check up front. It's just my opinion that if your young and single now's the time to take chances and not latter with a wife and kids. Too much stress.

[GG]

The larger EC's here seem to squeeze out the small guys. With there $40,000.00 + yellow page adds, radio dispatched trucks, $30,000.00 + bucket trucks, 24hr answering service, and on call electricians its hard to keep up with them. Im losing customers to them when I tell someone on the phone I cant get to them right that second. I worked for a co. in Houston who had work booked 2 weeks in advance.I dont see how they did that. If I dont tell the customer I can be there that day or the next they call someone else. Im glad that you guys are telling me that the smaller shops can survive. Maybe I need to re-think my earlier statements.

[growler]

GG, everyone loses calls to the guys with the expensive adds & 24 hr. service. I asked a friend of mine that tried to grow to fast about this. He advised me to keep track of those that were just starting out with a huge overhead, see how many were still around in a couple of years. For the last 8 years I have been saving the yellow pages and can see that big adds don't necessarily mean success. If you have the business, growth is good. But if you want to compete with the well established shops it is a hard job because they already have a well established customer base and they can afford the overhead.

[GG]

I was under the impression you had to grow in order to last as an EC. Reading some of these responses about guys doing a 1 man shop for 10+ years is encouraging as I dont want to grow to more than a 2-4 man shop.

[fc]

GG

I have been in the electrical contracting business for 30 years and our shop has 3 to 5 employees and it's been very very**good to me.
Get big you ask? Seen to many of the big boys fall flat out when they try to keep there men working and take jobs for cost hoping to make it on extras. They have large overhead and profits get chewed up fast. My son is in the business now with me and ask the same question on why I never went big. I tell him that I was always happy with a little bit of the pie. When you go for the whole pie it might get hard to chew.
Look I have enough problems with 3 to 5 guys working. Don't want to think of having 20 guy's.
I still have some hair left and want to keep what I have.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be big. But don't get big and make no money.
I know of a few big contractors that tell me how many millions in business they do but when I ask how much was in his pocket it was the same as I make and I have 1/3 of the work load he has and less stress.

[GG]

Well thanks for all the advice. I now see that staying small may have its benefits. Sorry if I stepped on any toes with my earlier comments. I know you all work hard regardless of the size of your shop. Guess size doesnt matter. :D

[ July 22, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: GG ]

[celtic]

Originally posted by GG:
I was under the impression you had to grow in order to last as an EC. Growing can mean many different things...
- if you can create a solid customer base with many satisfied and repeat customers - you have grown.
- if you spend all week giving estimates that never materialize, you have NOT grown.

- if you can keep 25 guys busy for 40 hrs/week...you have grown
- if you only need those 25 guys for ONE week, you have not grown

..and so on.
To me "growing" means keeping yourself employed.

As pointed out, sometimes "growing" can become an unmanageable jungle.

[electricmanscott]

One man, 11 years, still going, making money and a good living. Can be done and is being done by many.

[George Stolz]

So, how do you solo guys do old work without help?

I could spend hours trying to fish some situations solo, where it could take 5 minutes with help, without going up and down stairs, into attics, etc.

I'm curious because I'd like to be a solo guy some day. :)

[GG]

Get the homeowner to help you. :p

[growler]

George, have you ever seen those little helper monkeys that are trained to serve those that are invalid. Well, that's the second choice, normally you hire some temp. help ( staffing agency or some useless relative that's been sponging off you ). If there is plenty of work you can hire people because they wont draw unemployment ( they have to go back to work, Make sure you don't get lazy types).

[GG]

My helper monkey can even install CATV cable as shown here. http://www.dickiedavis.uklinux.net/images/jpegs/monkey3.jpg

[macmikeman]

So, how do you solo guys do old work without help? George, its a good question. In Hawaii most older homes are , "get ready" 5/8" single wall redwood tongue and groove. Fishing is minimal. Where it is double wall construction I am usually replacing knob and tube so using the old wire as a pull string is generally very easy. Rewiring alum. houses is another thing entirely. On those there is usually going to have to be a handyman come behind me for sheetrock repairs. Over the years I have learned a boatload of tricks/tools for one man fishing and wire pulling. Up until a few years ago batt insulation was really rare to find in the walls or attic's here because it just didn't get hot enough or cold enough to warrent its expense. Now all new construction requires r13 compliance in the attics. I don't think its hit 90 deg yet this summer. 60 deg is a really cold day unless you live outer Island and are up on a mountain .

[satcom]

GG,

Over 25 years, Three man shop, with continued profits, all the EC's that tried to go big are not around anymore.

[GG]

Well I had a chance to expand when a friend called me and wanted to partner up. Thank God I said no. I had a gut feeling that with him I would be out of business in a year. Im staying small and NO partners. :)

[GUNNING]

I've been a one man shop for 11 years. I've wanted to get bigger but have seen the nightmare happen to a lot of others. Too much work too fast, and nothing gets finsihed. Bad Karma. The yellow pages won't get you anything that the local paper cant get you, and I have learned to say "no because it wont make me happy" thanks to Mike Holt. I like that marketing strategy. As for taking on a 3 story church part time? Give me a break. Just sell your stuff now and give it to your "friend" the GC. He is going to end up with it anyway by the time the job is over. He is not your "friend" if he is going to hand you a headache like that and sell you on it being "part time". You will be doing work at midnight and he will be sound asleep waiting on his draw for your hard work. Don't do it.

[tx2step]

I agree with Gunning. This GC probably isn't your friend - he appears to be setting you up for failure. When you fall behind, he will start holding your payments until you "catch up". Then you can't work because you have no money coming in. If you do manage to catch up, he may withhold damages for your delaying the project. For sure, he will hold a chunk of your money for "insurance" that you'll finish the job without delay, or he'll use that money to hire another EC to complete your work. This can bankrupt you. It happens all of the time -- I've seen it often. I expect that he just sees you as gullible.

Don't take on a single project that can bankrupt you if it goes sour. Don't try to grow too fast. How much capitol do you have set aside to operate on (and risk)?

Read the entire thread at:

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000818

[OneWay]

Originally posted by GG:
You may think my statement was silly, but it was made from the fact that I dont know of 1 electrical contractor that is still in business that tried to stay small (i.e. a 2 man shop, you and a helper.) Its not going to happen long term. Yeah you may have a couple good years but the odds are against you. Sure you can start out small, but there comes a time when you have to expand. My statement was a reality of the business world. I have been in business long enough and worked for enough EC's to know who lasts and who doesnt and the little 2 man shops dont have what it takes to last long term. You're telling the truth, I since some naivtivity in southernboy, and believe him to be one that missed the boat.

[jeff43222]

Being a one-man shop vs being a big operation just means you have to market yourself differently. You certainly aren't going to win by trying to compete against their strengths.

I can't afford the big dollars required for yellow pages display ads, so I advertise in the neighborhood newspapers that the big boys ignore. I reach a segment of the market they don't -- people who get overwhelmed by all the yellow pages ads and would prefer to hire someone local. I get a steady stream of business from these newspaper ads.

My neighbor had some work done on her house a few years ago, and the EC that did the work had the biggest ad in the yellow pages. They closed up shop shortly after they did her job. It was a big out-of-state company that decided they couldn't make enough money in this market. Bigger apparently isn't better.

And the other day, I was at the supply house, and the counter guy asked if I was keeping busy. I said I had more than enough work right now, and he replied that a lot of guys are out of work. I wonder if they worked for bigger ECs.

[hardworkingstiff]

Hummm,

Been a 1 man shop since 1996, and still in business. I guess I better look at closing my doors? How long does it take to run a small business broke?

[highkvoltage]

Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market. Personally your freind should tell you to take a jump contact the GC and take the job. Don't get me wrong I hope you decide to become an EC but until then don't act as one. Here is something else you need to think about. I read alot a guys posting how profits are down and wages/jobs are also going down. The reason for this is there are to many moonlighters undercutting their own employer, then woundering why they are not working or their employers can't afford pay raises or medical insurance . Remember what goes around comes around. Once you are up and running and your employees start moonlighting taking your customers and are bidding jobs you may be looking at then you will truely understand.

[ August 13, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

[bradleyelectric]

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. At what point will I be an electrical contractor?

[growler]

Bradleyelectric, such questions were best answered by Rudyard Kipling.
If......
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
Or being lied about , don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look to good , nor talk to wise:

If you can dream-and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose , and start again at your beginnings
and never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
and so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold On!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
'Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none to much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

I think this would have to be good advice for an electrical contractor.

[ August 14, 2005, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: growler ]

[69boss302]

Amazing how there is such wisdom to found in places you never even expect to see it. Thanks Growler, I really needed that post in situations of my life that don't even pertain to my job.

[electricmanscott]

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market. Personally your freind should tell you to take a jump contact the GC and take the job. Don't get me wrong I hope you decide to become an EC but until then don't act as one. Here is something else you need to think about. I read alot a guys posting how profits are down and wages/jobs are also going down. The reason for this is there are to many moonlighters undercutting their own employer, then woundering why they are not working or their employers can't afford pay raises or medical insurance . Remember what goes around comes around. Once you are up and running and your employees start moonlighting taking your customers and are bidding jobs you may be looking at then you will truely understand. Bitter are we? :roll:

[jeff43222]

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
Really what it comes down to is your not a contractor. I am not insulting you just stating a fact. You really have no business acting as one unless you are willing to stick your neck out there and take the jump. Guys working out of there basement are killing legitiment EC's and are killing the market. You guys have no overhead so you quote a low bid and drive down the market. So, since I work out of my basement/garage and therefore don't have a lot of extra overhead, I'm not a legitimate contractor? How much overhead does someone have to have before he's considered legitimate? Should I buy a bucket truck? Buy a building for an office/warehouse? Hire a crew?

I have a state Class A Electrical Contractor license, the exact same kind as the one held by the largest contractor in the state. Just because I'm a one man shop working out of my house and have lower overhead doesn't make me any less legitimate than the big boys. The only difference is that they can take on big projects, while I pretty much have to stick to smaller jobs. Since I advertise in places they don't, I assume they aren't upset with me for taking business away from them.

Also, I'm not undercutting my employer by moonlighting. This EC business is the only job and source of income I have. I think that qualifies as sticking my neck out there and taking the jump, my lack of a bucket truck notwithstanding. :D

[tx2step]

If you work for someone else 40 hours a week for wages and just do small jobs on the side on nights and weekends, then you might be considered a "moonlighter" and not a legitimate "Electrical Contractor".

But anyone that works for themselves, running their own electrical contracting business, as their only source of income, they are a legitimate "Electrical Contractor".

The only meaningful differences between a one-man-shop and a $20,000,000 per year large EC are the matter of scale and complexity.

The $20M/yr large EC could make the same argument that a "small" EC that does just $1M/yr and only has 20 electricians is killing the business by his low overhead and low prices.

No matter what size contractor you are, there are always jobs that meet your "sweet spot" of maximum business efficiency ... and there will always be jobs that are too large for you to perform on your own (be it a one-man shop or an EC with 500 electricians). (Like John Wayne said... "A man's got to know his limitations".)

If you get bigger, than your "sweet spot" moves to include jobs that are too small for you to perform with efficiency and in a cost-effective manner. That means that you will get beat by smaller ECs that can do those smaller jobs more efficiently. No matter what size you are, there is a range of job size and type that is your "sweet spot". If you go outside of yours, then you'll get beat by another EC when you try to compete in his "sweet spot". Just choose where you want your sweet spot to be, and try to concentrate on jobs that meet those conditions.

I've never seen any EC that could be really good at doing every type of work, every type of job and every size job, large or small.

Whether an individual EC chooses to remain a 1-man shop or to become a large EC is a personal choice, based on many factors. That doesn't make a small 1-man EC any less legitimate. 1-man shops and large shops both take risks -- they're just different risks. They both stick their neck out -- just in different ways. Any EC (large or small) that bites off a job that is too large for him risks going broke.

Now if that 1-man EC charges less than he could charge, just because he has a lower overhead... well, that just makes him a dummy (and a poor businessman), because he could be making a much higher profit -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- it enables you to make a higher profit if you're smart enough to "take advantage of you advantage".

The real truth is that there are a lot more small ECs than large ECs that are poor businessmen. Most of the poor businessmen are weeded out in the process of their attempting to become large ECs.

What you should really be concerned about is becoming a good businessman in addition to being a good electrician. That's what will keep you from going broke.

[ August 15, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]

[dillon3c]

Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-Z-Z-Z-ahebmMM :D YEAH!-YEeee-haaa!

[tx2step]

Coulda been Clint Eastwood, now that I think about it? :D :D :D

Edited to add: Either one of them woulda made good electricians! :D

[ August 15, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]

[satcom]

"Now if that 1-man EC charges less than he could charge, just because he has a lower overhead... well, that just makes him a dummy (and a poor businessman), because he could be making a much higher profit -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- that 's one of the main advantages of having and keeping a low overhead -- it enables you to make a higher profit if you're smart enough to "take advantage of you advantage".

[highkvoltage]

I am not implying that you have to have a $100,000 building, a fleet of truck, 20 employees, ect. I am saying that you should be self employeed( or have a partner but your income is solely based on your business) , obtained the proper insurances, provide worker comp.,pull the proper permits,continue my education to maintain my licenses and pay taxes as required by law. I run a one man shop and hire as I need from a union hall. I do the outlet replacements to jobs over $200,000. There are alot a risk being in business and I made the choice and am happy I did. But I also put alot of capital and time to try this venture. Bitter not really our state is making the changes that will punish those closet contractors. As of now if you are caught wiring a commerical building and are not a licensed contractor the penalties are harsh and I will call the proper authorities if you are not an licensed EC. I just want a fair playing field or as close as you can get.

[bradleyelectric]

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
I am not implying that you have to have a $100,000 building, a fleet of truck, 20 employees, ect.K, so I have an office in my home, 3 trucks, and 3 full time employees besides myself, so I'm an electrical contractor, right? Cause if I'm not I'll drop the Inc. off my name till I am.

[electricmanscott]

Bust your *** all day and then come home and read posts from clueless yahoos. :roll: The more I read what higkvoltage says the more I realize why there are so many miserable people in this field. Fortunately I am not one of them. Nor are most of the contractors here. Oops, I mean wannabe contractors. :roll:

[ August 16, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

[highkvoltage]

electricmanscott. Your post speaks for itself. I feel sorry for you. Don't read what I post. I really don't believe you understand the intend anyways. Have one of your employees read them and hopefully they will be able to explain them to you.

[ August 16, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

[cselectric]

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
electricmanscott. Your post speaks for itself. I feel sorry for you. Don't read what I post. I really don't believe you understand the intend anyways. Have one of your employees read them and hopefully they will be able to explain them to you. Perhaps you wouldn't be catching such flack had you not presented yourself as a complete jerk. (I presume you take a different attitude with your customers... if not those 200K jobs are few and far between.) It was you that wrongfully presumed that the one man shops represented here are non licensed hacks and moonlighters. You took a blind shot and didn't even knick the barn with that one.
You also made a bold statement that any one man shop or, God forbid, part time operation, is "not a contractor." Yet, how many ECs, regardless of current size, started out as a one man show? I suppose I wasn't a real contractor when I started out. I was licensed, bonded, insured and incorporated. But, I worked out of my home and when I started out I was still employed by someone else. Sure he knew I was doing it, even encouraged me. Sure, I never poached a single customer and never bid a project he was looking at. But, I guess I wasn't legitimate because I didn't put my families welfare in enough jeopardy for your liking.

[GG]

http://weasel.faricy.net/funny/badthread/capacity.jpg

[ August 16, 2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: GG ]

[jeff43222]

[quote]Originally posted by electricmanscott:
[b] Bust your *** all day and then come home and read posts from clueless yahoos. :D

I'm also not one of the miserable people in this field. Sure, some days are better than others, but I really enjoy what I do. I've had several other jobs in a variety of fields before I embarked on my current journey, and with that frame of reference, I can say being an EC really suits me much more than the other things I did for a living previously.

Just today, I did a panel swap for a guy (fuses to breakers), and you should have seen how happy he was when I got him all set up. He asked me for a bunch of business cards because he planned on spreading the word about me. How many people out there can credibly claim they have a job where they regularly get to make people happy?

[gudguyham]

Hi GG....I also asked to "partner-up" with a electrician buddy of mine...his response was "Partners are for dancing".
Since he has asked me to help him out on occasions as he is a "one-man shop" I now realize he did me a favor by saying "Partners are for dancing". I would be doing all the work and he would be out "looking at a jobs". As to the original question about the church job. one of the hardest things to do is to "nail down a job". If the church wants YOU do do*the job then you have 1/2 the battle won already. Granted, you will need help. If you can not manage to get the help, then by asking your buddy EC to come in on the job is fine, but you are the boss on this job. Be friendly, you can team up with your buddy. have him help you with bidding and get a percentage of the entire job on the backside for yourself. You will need a good relationship with this buddy and an open account with the church. It is going to be hard to bid the job because as one fellow mentioned, with churches to many people have too much to say so there will be changes and add-ons etc. If this EC is a true buddy of yours, you can make this job work for you. If you do this job, LEARN! Learning is sometimes a rough road, but there is no substitute for experience! Good Luck

[bradleyelectric]

Originally posted by jeff43222:
[quote] How many people out there can credibly claim they have a job where they regularly get to make people happy? Are you suggesting I go back to delivering pizzas?

[iwire]

Originally posted by bradleyelectric:
Are you suggesting I go back to delivering pizzas? :D

[jeff43222]

Originally posted by bradleyelectric:
Originally posted by jeff43222:
[quote] How many people out there can credibly claim they have a job where they regularly get to make people happy? Are you suggesting I go back to delivering pizzas? Your electrical work doesn't make people happy? I've actually been hugged a couple of times. Ever get hugged on a pizza run?

[petersonra]

I have left any number of very happy customers in my wake.

People hire other people to do thigns for them they are unable to do for themselves. They are often quite happy with the results. It is why they come back for more later on.

[southernboys]

To give everyone an update on this job. I realized as soon as I lokkes at this job it was out of my leauge. My Ec buddy never called the church so I have nothing to do with him. I also lost a partner and a good friend because he wanted us to do the job. Told him no way. Well the church gave the job to another ec who is 40yrs in the trade but a one man shop. They then called me up to help him so ive been doing that part time. Im working on a condo with 20 days left and then I will probaly go fulltime under this other electrician. The job will be a great learning experience for me and I will become a more rounded electrician thanks to this job.

[bradleyelectric]

Originally posted by southernboys:
I also lost a partner and a good friend because he wanted us to do the job. Told him no way. If you lost a good friend due to not becoming a partner in business, you didn't have a good friend. I don't think you had a partner in the first place, and that may have been a blessing. A friend went in partnership with a guy in a paving business. they are both good guys, but my friend sometimes wishes he had rethought that as the guy that was doing the paving does not have good business sense

[OneWay]

small potatoes :D :p