what is an electrical inspectors job?

[jbwhite]

I was on a job and we were in the process of walking through the building on final inspection. I had done allot of jobs where this same inspector came to check out my work, so he knew how I did things.

As we went down one hall he tried to turn on the lights using one three way. At the other end he tried the other three way. The second switch did not turn off the lights. He didn't say a word and continued his inspection.

When he was done he signed the building permit. I asked if I had to fix the three way before he could sign me off. He said no. He told me that it was his job to insure that the work was safe, and my job to insure that it works.

What do the rest of you think about this inspectors interpretation about the scope of his authority?

[hurk27]

Your inspector was correct.
And how could he site you as three-ways are not required anyways, As long as one switch operated the light it was code compliant. the other switch was a dummy. :D

Ok I have my umbrella, start throwing. :D

[ryan_618]

I agree with Wayne, and I agree with your inspector.

I flip every switch in a house, but I don't care if the lights turn on, I only care if the breaker trips. What do inspectors do?Well, I drink a LOT of coffee every day :)

[sandsnow]

I would care if a 3way worked only if required for a stairway.
I would care if a required wall switch controlled light outlet did not work by it's designated switch.
Above applies to residential.
As far as commercial goes, generally you don't need any switching.
All the above applies to NEC only. In CA we have enrgy standards, and working lighting controls is a big deal in our enforcement of these standards. With the more complex controls, the contractor is required to "sign his life away" that they work.

If you hook up an HOA or start-stop to a motor, I would care less if it worked, but only if it had proper SC/GF, OL, and disconnect to pass it.

So yeah, if its safe and functionally meets code, then the rest of the function is your problem; well actually the client.

I drink a lot of coffee in the morning, a lot of diet soda in the afternoon, and not as much beer as I used to in the evening. I had to give up tequila shooters. ;)

[augie47]

none of you have even mentioned all the time we spend taking that ill gotten money take to the bank.

[iwire]

Originally posted by augie47:
none of you have even mentioned all the time we spend taking that ill gotten money take to the bank. I was afraid if I did you inspectors would have me silenced by IAEI tough guys. :eek:

[sandsnow]

Originally posted by augie47:
none of you have even mentioned all the time we spend taking that ill gotten money take to the bank. I didn't mention it because we are not allowed to take money for bribes. It is shocking that you are allowed to do this. ;)

Actually, I do not solicit gifts to pass violations, however the contractor has to swear that he will never work in out city ever again. ;)

[roger]

Larry, there is one part of your first post in this thread that is particularly troubling to me,

I had to give up tequila shooters. why? :( :D

Roger

[bphgravity]

I usually make an effort to at least provide an advisory so the contractor/builder is aware and can make the corrections before the home owner catches it or the CO is awarded.

And depending on the particular situation, I will pass violations on the rough if I feel it can be corrected for final inspection. (for things that will still be inspectable) Of course, if the issue has not been corrected by final inspection, the will be cited for the violation.

[sandsnow]

Originally posted by roger:
[b] Larry, there is one part of your first post in this thread that is particularly troubling to me,

[quote]I had to give up tequila shooters. why? :( :( It was one of my favorite recreational activities. :D

[sandsnow]

Originally posted by bphgravity:
I usually make an effort to at least provide an advisory so the contractor/builder is aware and can make the corrections before the home owner catches it or the CO is awarded.

And depending on the particular situation, I will pass violations on the rough if I feel it can be corrected for final inspection. (for things that will still be inspectable) Of course, if the issue has not been corrected by final inspection, the will be cited for the violation. Bryan, for crying out loud. You could at least keep up the appearance that we're all totally unreasonable and have delusions of our own self importance. I have to say I don't consider you a brother inspector. :( :D ;)

Seriously:
Just like you it depends upon the violation on whether I trust him to correct something by final. Too many other factors in play. Such as the owner or GC not wanting to pay the cost. And the cost is even more in time and money to fix it at final. I don't enjoy holding up the job, I make every effort not to, but I don't enjoy holding up the final even more. I too give advice and warnings early in the job that a certain installation is going to create a problem or the designer has a code violation on the plans.

[George Stolz]

Quick poll: Would no lamps installed in a house violate a code? I've been failed for that in the past, and was curious if it was technically a violation. (The customer provided fixtures and forgot the lamps.)

[jimwalker]

If it was a luminaire that's required i would say yes.But how does the code actually say this.You have the required outlet.Never been failed for it and customer supplied fixtures never seem to have bulbs.Some will even think you should supply them.Part that upsets me is when they think on the punch out you should now install them.
As to bribes ,what is the going rate ? Will a 20 in the panel be ok ? ;)

[Rick Kelly]

As an inspector in Canada, I can only comment on what I, and what I would expect other Canadian inspectors, would do in this case.

I would bounce this as a dificency. Yes... we have a responsibility to find the "un-safe" installs, but we also have a responsilibilty to ensure things work as intended.

Wether or not the installed systems meet the customers need is not in our area of concern. What is in our area, or should be IMHO, is that what is installed works as it should.

The Canadian code has clear rules about "Quality of Workmanship" and that "Electrical Systems" are maintained in working order. This issue, of the faulty three way switching, clearly "meets" the intent of those rules and as such should be bounced by most inspectors in Canada, and I hope by those in America as well.

[ January 06, 2006, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Rick Kelly ]

[earlydean]

actually the NEC does not require any luminaires, only lighting outlets. The building code requires illumination in stairwells, and illumination of the egress, but daylight could provide those as well. To turn down a CO for lack of lamps is silly.

[Cavie]

I agree. To turn down would be silly but with enough of these and other turndowns, the Quaility of workman ship would improve greatly. It's not beeing "Hard nosed", it's about being a teacher. The workmanship in our trade has gone out the window. let's try to get it back.

[George Stolz]

Cavie, how is my workmanship in question if the fixture is installed correctly and the customer neglected to provide me with bulbs, and then neglected to get them installed before inspection?

[sparky_magoo]

Without bulbs, how would the inspector know if the lighting outlet works?

[cowboyjwc]

I always get the agument that they need their power released for final inspection, otherwise how could I tell if it works. I do a final to see if you should get power.

I say the same thing your inspector did. My jobs to insure you install it per the NEC, your job is to make sure it works.

No where in the NEC does it say the light has to come on when you flip the switch.

I once installed a fan/light for a woman. I had the breaker off since I had to cut into some lines and hadn't turned it back on yet, anyways she comes in the room just as I'm starting to clean up and flips the switch and nothing happens. She says "it doesn't work". I said "no ma'am how could it they're not wired together". "What?". I said "read my contract, it says install one ceiling fan and one wall switch. I doesn't say anything about wire, if you want it to work that's gonna be an extra."

Luckly she had a good sense of humor.

[dnem]

I agree with Wayne, and I agree with your inspector.

I flip every switch in a house, but I don't care if the lights turn on, I only care if the breaker trips.I would care if a 3way worked only if required for a stairway.
I would care if a required wall switch controlled light outlet did not work by it's designated switch.
Above applies to residential.
As far as commercial goes, generally you don't need any switching.I agree but would add one more category of light that needs to work on the final. In both residential and commercial egrees lighting must work.I always get the agument that they need their power released for final inspection, otherwise how could I tell if it works. I do a final to see if you should get power.We require separate service main and final inspections because we require power to do the final.

There would be two problems that would come from not having power on a final.
1) You can't check lighting in stairways or egree lighting.
You can't check switched plugs or proper termination of all plugs thruout the building [particularly attachment of equipment grounding] without demoing all of the plugs.
2) One of our power companies that serves one area of the county might take anywhere from 3 days to 6 weeks to hook up the service. If you add this on the end of the completed building, all contractor schedules would go to hell and customers wouldn't know when they could move in.

David

[bphgravity]

Here is a document my building department recently posted regarding this issue:

Re: Changes to Building Department Requirements for Final Electrical Inspection

To Whom It May Concern:

Effective March 1st 2006, all buildings and structures will be required to have electrical utilities connected before Final Electrical Inspection. The following reasons are listed for this change:

1. To verify completed wiring is free from short circuits and from grounds other than as required or permitted in Article 250 per Section 110.7 of the 2002 NEC.

2. To verify the panelboard circuit directory correctly identifies the purpose or use of all branch circuit breakers per Section 408.4 of the 2002 NEC.

3. To verify ground-fault and arc-fault circuit protection of devices and outlets where required by the code per Section 210.8 and 210.12 of the 2002 NEC.

4. To verify proper operation of all required egress lighting per Section 210.70 of the 2002 NEC and Section 1006 of the 2004 Florida Building Code.

Please contact the Building Department if you have any questions on this matter.

[dlhoule]

Here is a document my building department recently posted regarding this issue:

Re: Changes to Building Department Requirements for Final Electrical Inspection

To Whom It May Concern:

Effective March 1st 2006, all buildings and structures will be required to have electrical utilities connected before Final Electrical Inspection. The following reasons are listed for this change:

1. To verify completed wiring is free from short circuits and from grounds other than as required or permitted in Article 250 per Section 110.7 of the 2002 NEC.

2. To verify the panelboard circuit directory correctly identifies the purpose or use of all branch circuit breakers per Section 408.4 of the 2002 NEC.

3. To verify ground-fault and arc-fault circuit protection of devices and outlets where required by the code per Section 210.8 and 210.12 of the 2002 NEC.

4. To verify proper operation of all required egress lighting per Section 210.70 of the 2002 NEC and Section 1006 of the 2004 Florida Building Code.

Please contact the Building Department if you have any questions on this matter.



What about the rest of the State? Seems I read or heard somewhere that the state was going to do that beginning June 1st.

[dlhoule]

In terms of light bulbs, when I first started our local POCO provided light bulbs for new homes and would exchange them on a 1 for 1 basis for the home owner.

A few years later a large chain store filed a lawsuit claiming they couldn't sell any light bulb because of this policy. They won suit and the consumer has been paying for it ever since.

I'll grant you they were pretty inexpensive bulbs and caused by to get cited for a non working fixture in hall way. I found it rather odd because the home 2 doors down wired by a different EC passed. Well, I was on a service call at that home 2 doors down. 3ways for basement stairs, stairs to 2nd floor, and hallway 3 ways were all wired incorrectly.

I got busted for a defective light bulb. :x

[tincan44]

What about the rest of the State? Seems I read or heard somewhere that the state was going to do that beginning June 1st.

Indian River Co. will require power at Final starting July 1. I also agree 100% with the note posted in bphgravity's Building Dept. 110.7 just doesn't say enough!