Another post got me wodering

[bikeindy]

How much do you guys charge to go into a home and add a ceiling fan in a bedroom. involved would be running 14-3 in the wall to the existing switch location cutting that open to a 2 gang, installing whatever brace and box you prefer and assembly of the fan.

[LarryFine]

How much do you guys charge to go into a home and add a ceiling fan in a bedroom. involved would be running 14-3 in the wall to the existing switch location cutting that open to a 2 gang, installing whatever brace and box you prefer and assembly of the fan.
With ready access from above, probably in the $250-300 range. If I have to feed into a ceiling with a room above, double that.

I have gotten a cable from a wall switch box to the center of a downstairs ceiling without having to make any access openings.

[bikeindy]

I have gotten a cable from a wall switch box to the center of a downstairs ceiling without having to make any access openings.

Were you extreamly lucky or just THAT GOOD?

And I am low then, since I charge $185.00 But when I have done these I most often do at least 2 rooms and can be done pretty quick. and that is my price for attic access installs. I charge T&M for no access ceilings and make no promises on drywall damage just that I will keep it to a bare minimum.

[j_erickson]

And I am low then, since I charge $185.00 But when I have done these I most often do at least 2 rooms and can be done pretty quick. and that is my price for attic access installs. I charge T&M for no access ceilings and make no promises on drywall damage just that I will keep it to a bare minimum.

So you are talking attic access? I'd be around $300.

[growler]

If a fan is done on T&M then the price is normally cheaper than flat rate ( if everything goes well ). If the customer wants an up front price then I am the one taking the chance so it's going to be $250 to $300. If they have 3 or 4 then I come down a little because it's more efficient to work at one place than to drive to a seperate job. I try to price by using actual cost. If you drive 20 miles to do one fan then it's going to cost more.

[bkludecke]

If you are making good money at $185 why charge more? Just because you can? I've been in this business long enough to have seen a number of economic cycles. When we are all busy, prices go up and some of us will get greedy (and get away with it for awhile). Then the economy slows down and the phone stops ringing; except for the guy who has been fair and honest all along. He/she has a good reputation and the customers refer work to him. My point is that finding a pricing structure that pays the bills, pays the wages (yours or your employees), and makes you a decent profit is the right one for the long haul.

[LarryFine]

Were you extreamly lucky or just THAT GOOD? Honestly, I'm that good. As long as I have a wall opening in a bay that is lined up with the ceiling bay, I can use a long flex-bit with aiming handle to penetrate the top plate. Then thread a fishtape through that hole, with the end gently curved in the right direction.

I have a flexible flashlight that hangs inside the wall and points up, and a mirror on another flex handle, making it easier to get the fishtape through the hole. I put some white tape on the fishtape to make it easier to see where the tip is.

Let's say I have a livingroom off the foyer, with a second doorway to the dining room. There is a switch by the first doorway, but it's on the 'wrong' wall. I add one, often placed next to the second doorway, and convert the original switch into a 3-way pair.

Now, if the house has vinyl siding, everything is easier. I have been known (don't tell anyone; it may not be compliant) to run UF behind siding, out through the band joist, up the wall, and back in, penetrating the ceiling bay from the outside.

Of course, I seal the holes with caulk or expanding foam. The toughest fan box I did happened to have a bay window with copper roofing in line with the ceiling bay, so I had to get really creative. I suggested adding a recessed light in the top of the bay-window ceiling. They liked it, so...

I drilled into the bay window's "attic" space from the fan box's 4" hole, and working through the recessed light's 4" hole, managed to run the 14-3 from the room's ceiling box, through the hollow area over the window, into the wall beside the window, down into an old-work box, where I fed the new switches from a receptacle below.

No access holes (other than the recessed light), no patching, and it looks like it was built that way. On the rare occasion I do have to make holes, I take care of it myself. I've done plenty of drywall work, from repairs to entire rooms, so it's a handy skill. In fact, three years ago, we built an entire addition. We're licensed for home and commercial improvement, too.

[jeff43222]

I rarely ever have the switch and the ceiling outlet in the same bay. Even if I did, I'd bet that most of the time there would be some hidden obstacle in the wall or ceiling that the fish tape wouldn't be able to get past. Most of the houses I work on are pre-WWII, so if nothing else, the fish tape gets caught in the lath. Then there's the problem of tying into the existing ancient boxes and wiring...

Most of the time I tell people in these houses that a new fan outlet and switch is possible, but it will require some demo and repair. That usually gets them to back off. If I have attic access from above, that makes the job a lot more doable.

I never do drywall repair, as I'm conveniently not licensed to do it. I also hate doing it, and my hands are dry and cracked enough as it is. For the times when I do break open the walls, I call my trusty plaster/drywall repair guy (who is licensed to do it), and he puts me at the top of his list.

I agree with the pricing the others have said. About $300 for a job with attic access is plenty reasonable.

[celtic]

$450 - access or not (usually NOT).

Why?
Attics are hot, dirty, full of itchy "stuff", etc...a PITA

No access ....installing a bar from below is a PITA too :D

[satcom]

"$450 - access or not "

That is more then a good deal, did you mean $450 plus permit fee, or $450 with permit fee? You will most likely spend at min a half day there, plus material, plus profit.

[bkludecke]

To make it even more fun, imagine your doing the job in CA. I used to like giving an "estimate" but do the job T&M which could go higher or lower depending on what actually happens once we get going. Not anymore. The new law is that you must give a "not to exceed" price which can only be raised with a written change order. This takes all the flexibility away from estimating and makes every job a BID unless one feels like giving the HO a break if things go easy. I know a permit is required, but when we fish everything what does the inspector actually inspect?

[celtic]

"$450 - access or not "

That is more then a good deal, did you mean $450 plus permit fee, or $450 with permit fee? You will most likely spend at min a half day there, plus material, plus profit.


I don't wait for a permit more than 10 minutes..if they can't do it, I'll be back - here's my paperwork, adios.

$450 is w/o ANY taxes, tags, licensing or registration fees...just like a car ;)


How much is the material?
40' - 14/3: $27.60
CF brace/box: $12.98
Cut-in box: $1.49
Single pole switch (anything else is extra) and plastic plate: $1.54
Misc. hardware: $4.00
TOTAL: $47.61
$402.39 for labor and O&P

[celtic]

The new law is that you must give a "not to exceed" price which can only be raised with a written change order.

Is that the same toothless law about the certifications?

[bikeindy]

I don't intend to raise my price I was just curious what other are charging. Most of these that I do are in homes that are 10 years old or less, have great attic space, and we can do 2 fans in about 2 hours from pull up to drive off, giving time for BSing with the homeowner. there is one subdivision of about 200 homes that we have been in about 75 of doing this type work. I don't think these folks are interested in paying much more than I am charging and I have 125 homes left in that division to get into. My customers love me and we do pretty well. I keep my overhead down and have workers who care about costs.

[celtic]

Nothing wrong with that bikeindy.

Where I am - EVERYTHING is expensive ~ NJ is #1 in auto insurance, taxes, blah, blah, blah ;)

[bkludecke]

Is that the same toothless law about the certifications?
I don't know,....haven't been caught yet

[celtic]

I don't know,....haven't been caught yet

...maybe you were caught, but don't know it because there is no penalty :D :D :D

[shelton]

At least $450.00 i would not get out of bed for $185.00

[satcom]

"At least $450.00 i would not get out of bed for $185.00"


I took a look at some of the recent fan jobs we did this year, and ran a profit loss on 3 of them, one of intrest, was a job done almost as described in this thread, less permit fee, it was $462, took 3.75 hours from shop to return, the total profit was a $17 loss, our overhead is pretty lean, but as noted here in jersey, costs of doing business are up there, it may be he is located in a depressed area, and costs for everything are much lower, and the area wages are also low, but even in a depressed area, it is more important to maintain profits, for the long haul, we have customers complain, they can't get a fan assy and hung for $150, and he is doing wiring, installing boxes, and support, for just $35 more? My bet is, he never did a break even cost on his business, and might not even added in planned budget items needed to stay in business for the long term, like asset replacement costs, and employee actuals.

"I don't think these folks are interested in paying much more than I am charging and I have 125 homes left in that division to get into."

It's not what they are willing to pay, it's what you need to charge to run your business pay all your expenses and make a small profit to enable you to continue in business.

[emahler]

that's all blasphamy satcom, blasphamy I say....it's all about what the market will bear...

[bkludecke]

that's all blasphamy satcom, blasphamy I say....it's all about what the market will bear...
Actually what the market is willing to pay based on competition and other factors will quite often make a contractor take a good look at his/her operation and become more efficient, if necessary, in order to compete. There are even times when I have operated at a loss to ride through a rough patch and keep my crews working. That is a business decision that we are all faced with at one time or another.

[emahler]

Bob,

when it comes to residential service (and installing a ceiling fan is) most people will use the company that shows up. There are those who will waste everyone's time getting 3 prices to change a GCFI, but they actually are the minority.

I'm not a big fan of working at a loss, but I understand what you are saying.

However, if the "going rate" in my area for installing a fan is $250, how many customers are actually a) gonna know the real "going rate" as opposed to their preconceived idea of what it should cost and 2) are going to not pay $300 for my tech to do the installation right then and there, rather than saving $50 to wait until a week from Tues?

Why wouldn't they pay $325? or $375? or $400? They will if we give them a reason to. If we show them that they are better off paying us $400 to the job, than pay less to some other company.

The going rate only affects the companies that don't differentiate themselves from the other contractors.

I advocate 1 thing in this industry, and that is charging the most you can to provide a better life for your family and employees, and providing service that is worth more than you charged. I can't just walk in like every other contractor, do the same things as every other contractor, and charge 3X as much. I have to give more, do more, sell more. But it can be done and I can do it.

Price is relative to service and perceived value. I can charge $1000/hr and be a bargain for what your receive. Or I can charge $10/hr and be a huge ripoff.

[bkludecke]

Bob,

when it comes to residential service (and installing a ceiling fan is) most people will use the company that shows up. There are those who will waste everyone's time getting 3 prices to change a GCFI, but they actually are the minority.

I'm not a big fan of working at a loss, but I understand what you are saying.

However, if the "going rate" in my area for installing a fan is $250, how many customers are actually a) gonna know the real "going rate" as opposed to their preconceived idea of what it should cost and 2) are going to not pay $300 for my tech to do the installation right then and there, rather than saving $50 to wait until a week from Tues?

Why wouldn't they pay $325? or $375? or $400? They will if we give them a reason to. If we show them that they are better off paying us $400 to the job, than pay less to some other company.

The going rate only affects the companies that don't differentiate themselves from the other contractors.

I advocate 1 thing in this industry, and that is charging the most you can to provide a better life for your family and employees, and providing service that is worth more than you charged. I can't just walk in like every other contractor, do the same things as every other contractor, and charge 3X as much. I have to give more, do more, sell more. But it can be done and I can do it.

Price is relative to service and perceived value. I can charge $1000/hr and be a bargain for what your receive. Or I can charge $10/hr and be a huge ripoff.
I don't disagree with a thing you've said so far. My company has a reputation of being darned good and darned expensive and that's the reputation I've been working to maintain for about 30years now. I've got 6 good field workers right now and we are headed into our slow season workwise. That means alot of the 1 man shops around here are going to panic and cut prices. This is where working smarter and having a good customer base that I've built up over the years comes into play. We are a resort town with alot of 2nd homeowners who just want the darn job done (price is secondary) so I get your point very well. But if the local economy slows to a certain point then I need to either lay off some good men (and risk loosing them for good) or operate at a loss in hopes they will appreciate it enough to work with me. I've done it both ways many times and there is no Right answer.

[satcom]

"quite often make a contractor take a good look at his/her operation and become more efficient, if necessary, in order to compete."

That is all well and good, and everyone should try to control overhead operating costs, but when your costs are already bare bones, and your work is at max efficiency, there is nothing left to cut but profits, cut them and your on your way out of business, pricing is not the only way to compete, offering a better service, is another way, finding new nich markets is another or expanding you coverage areas, lowering you prices to compete will only weaken your position. and reduce your present, and future assets.

This past June, I was around town checking jobs, when I met up with an electrical contractors widow, she approched me and asked, if i was intrested in any of tools, or equipmenthatAJ had, seems he led his wife to believe he had a business worth a lot of money, when in fact he left nothing, except a garage full of old tools, and a pile of junk, she tried to sell the business, early on, but there was no value in it, he din't keep his books very well, and he had a large list of customers that called him, because he worked for next to nothing, she asked me an intresting question, Can you tell me why Bill ( a neighbor plumber of hers) and his wife, have so much to show for all these years, and AJ left us with nothing but a pile of junk, and unpaid bills, what do plumbers do that electricians don't?

My view is it dosen't have anything to do with being a plumber or electrician, it has to do with how you run your business.

[bjp_ne_elec]

First - on the original post, with the price of $250 - $300 - how many hours have you allowed for.

Now in the second post, where you go through the top plate - is this totally blind as to what's above the plate? What happens it there is a water line or waste line right above the top plate? Do you somehow get a peek at what's above it? I'm not trying to be a wise-_ss - just trying to get educated on old work. I have a lot of learing to do.

Thanks

Dave

[LarryFine]

First - on the original post, with the price of $250 - $300 - how many hours have you allowed for.With attic access, and no floor board to pry up, I can mount a fan box, run 14/2 or 14/3 down to the existing switch box, rewire the switched receptacle if it was done with a 2-wire switch loop (so the black becomes the hot and the white becomes the neutral), and hang the fan in 1 to 1.5 hours.

[i]Now in the second post, where you go through the top plate - is this totally blind as to what's above the plate? What happens it there is a water line or waste line right above the top plate? Do you somehow get a peek at what's above it? I get a peek above the top plate through the 4" hole I make in the ceiling for the fan box. I have to have this line of sight in order to get the fishtape (and then the wire) to the box opening.

I set a flashlight on the ceiling, through the box hole, pointing toward the wall, and a mirror on a handle to see where the light is shining. The flex-bit aiming handle is a must if there is blocking atop the wall, so I penetrate the top plate on this side of the blocking.

[celtic]

Can you tell me why Bill ( a neighbor plumber of hers) and his wife, have so much to show for all these years, and AJ left us with nothing but a pile of junk, and unpaid bills, what do plumbers do that electricians don't?

My view is it dosen't have anything to do with being a plumber or electrician, it has to do with how you run your business.

But the plumbers DO have something we haven't been to able to establish:
[Business Owners' Cost Calculator] (http://www.masterplumbers.com/utilities/costcalc/)


If EC's took a little time to research what they NEED to run a profitable business, they would realize it's not about what you SHOULD charge - but rather what you COULD charge ;) ...BTW, my prices go up 4/14/07.

[emahler]

While, we can certainly get a fan installed in an hour (on site time) if the gods are with us, our typical ceiling fan install is about 2.5 hrs and about 3-3.5 hrs with travel.

That's mostly because 1-1.5 hrs of that time is setup and cleanup. It's talking to the customer to find out what else is going on in their house. Any other issues they may have. Explaining the fan operation (you'd be surprised how many people don't know that you can reverse the flow of air) Making small talk and selling ourselves and our company.

We could rush in, get done, get paid, get out, but why? I'd rather go to 2 jobs and make $800 for the day, then 4 jobs for the same $800.

But that's just our method.

[bikeindy]

"At least $450.00 i would not get out of bed for $185.00"


I took a look at some of the recent fan jobs we did this year, and ran a profit loss on 3 of them, one of intrest, was a job done almost as described in this thread, less permit fee, it was $462, took 3.75 hours from shop to return, the total profit was a $17 loss, our overhead is pretty lean, but as noted here in jersey, costs of doing business are up there, it may be he is located in a depressed area, and costs for everything are much lower, and the area wages are also low, but even in a depressed area, it is more important to maintain profits, for the long haul, we have customers complain, they can't get a fan assy and hung for $150, and he is doing wiring, installing boxes, and support, for just $35 more? My bet is, he never did a break even cost on his business, and might not even added in planned budget items needed to stay in business for the long term, like asset replacement costs, and employee actuals.

Why would you send a crew out to a job that takes a couple of hours and have them back at the shop afterward? wouldn't you send them to the next job? maybe you need better scheduling. If I went out or sent my guys to do one fan for $185.00 (here there are no permit requirements for this work) They would be done in under 2 hrs. We don't live in a depressed area at all work is plentiful and we are busy. It is rare on a job like this we would do just one fan most of these homes have 4 bedrooms and no ceiling outlet. we can do 4 fans installed with wiring in 4 - 5 hrs and still pick up another service call on the way back to the shop. My shop by the way is my garage.

so that job is $720 - $120 for materials and other expences - $200 for payroll for 1 lead guy 1 helper (payroll taxes included) = $400 to me. And I was either doing services calls or bidding work either way I am also profitable each day. If you lost $17 on 2 guys doing $450 in work I think there is something wrong in NJ.

"I don't think these folks are interested in paying much more than I am charging and I have 125 homes left in that division to get into."

It's not what they are willing to pay, it's what you need to charge to run your business pay all your expenses and make a small profit to enable you to continue in business.

I've been in business 4 years and finished the books on last year Gross was up 10% net up 16% and I net 36.7% of my gross, on the job above it is higher as you can see. But I was asking the question to see what others are doing this work for. I seem to be low but our profit is fine.

[satcom]

"But I was asking the question to see what others are doing this work for."

Looking at the other guy will not give you any useful information, as you notice, every area has different costs of dong business, if you net profit at year end is 37% after taxes then you doing pretty good.

Things are different in every aspect of installation work, pay for example, some EC's may pay $12 to 14 an hour, others may be $14 to $18 and still others $18 to $24 all doing the same type of work but paying different wages. also some may pay benifits, and vacations, others may not, some may be fully insured, with the prober insurances, others may have min policies, workers comp payments are a big item, some states don't require both private and state payments, also if you don't require permits, then there is another cost item, filing time and picking up, so what someone else charges will be of no use as a compared price, even hours to complete a job can differ, one worker may go like crazy, and another may work at a normal pace, one may explain the job and operation of devices, the other may pack up and run.

[bjp_ne_elec]

I think it's good discussion,. Satcom - you are correct - everyone will have different operating expenses - but one thing that's very interesting is the discussion of hours. For me getting a feel of what different people think the job will take, and strategies - that's very useful information. What everyone needs to really dig in to and understand is what it costs to send a guy out - considering his wage, any benefits and then stir in your other operating expenses - insurances, loans, leases, fuel bills, etc. Once you have all these and determine what you want to make as a profit, then you should have it worked out.

Someone could absolutely make more profit if they charge $185 for the job, even though the other guy charged $250.

Brett

[aline]

Someone could absolutely make more profit if they charge $185 for the job, even though the other guy charged $250.

Brett

And they could make even more profit if they charged $250 like the other guy. :)

If the other guy is getting $250 why punish yourself for being more efficient?

I was talking to a plumber who said a competitor was selling water heater replacements for $1500.

He seemed quite proud of the fact that he was selling them for $800.
This doesn't seem like something to be proud of to me.
Selling them for $1600 does. :)

If you're faster, more efficient and can also sell the job for more than your competition then that's impressive to me.

[bkludecke]

Ahh, the marketplace. It brings out the best and the worst in all of us.

[celtic]

.....I think there is something wrong in NJ.


Tell us something we don't already know :D :D :D

[lowryder88h]

"America has been berry, berry, good to me" What ever your market area can bear.

[emahler]

Ahh, the marketplace. It brings out the best and the worst in all of us.

Bob, all day long I'm trying to figure out what you mean...and I just can't...can you explain it for me....s.l.o.w.l.y (I am from Jersey, you know;))

[satcom]

"What everyone needs to really dig in to and understand is what it costs to send a guy out - considering his wage, any benefits and then stir in your other operating expenses - insurances, loans, leases, fuel bills, etc. Once you have all these and determine what you want to make as a profit, then you should have it worked out."

And most do not do that, they try to do service calls, and charge job rates, they usually never catch the loss because it is mixed with income from other jobs, there are contractors that have worked this way for 20 to 30 years, and never did a balance sheet, to see if they made or lost money, it's the things they missed that are the real loss, the medical benifits, they never had, the retirement fund they never contribuited to, the assets they never built, and these are usually the same ones, calling someone that runs a business for profit, crooks, or just someone ripping off consumers, they don't understand basic business pricatices, so why would anyone expect them to understand, pricing for services, they are usually working for someone else, they can't make a go of business, but they sure have a lot of advice, when someone tells you, your overcharging, check to see what that person is doing for a living, the advice from someone working at a sucessful business, will be much better advice.

[bkludecke]

Bob, all day long I'm trying to figure out what you mean...and I just can't...can you explain it for me....s.l.o.w.l.y (I am from Jersey, you know;))
What I mean is; There are contractors who charge what they can get away with (laughing all the way to the bank and criticizing those who charge less) and they fail as often as the contractors who try and get every job (even at below cost rates) just to stay busy. In the end the capitalist free market economy will decide what the true value of a product or service is (just check out ebay). No one single answer in this thread can assume to be the best formula for every company, it takes all kinds. As for me; I do what I need to do to turn out a good product, keep my customers happy, take good care of my employees, pay myself, turn a profit and plan for retirement. At any given point along the way I will do things that aretrue to one of those tennants and not another but after nearly 30years of running this company things seem to be right on track.

[satcom]

"There are contractors who charge what they can get away with "

They are the ones that would do it, no matter what type of business they ran, but not to confuse them with someone paying their employees a livable wage, and providing benifits, and operating their business for profit, to insure a strong and lasting company. These companies may look like they are charging too much, when in fact many may be just holding on,

One thing about New Jersey is, if an EC gouges a customer, this is one of the things they do enforce, so this is not the state to try and charge what you can get away with, I can imagine there are states where this may be a problem.

[bjp_ne_elec]

Satcom - how do you determine "gouging"? I would think that an estimate (for work bid) or some type of agreement (in case of T&M) is in place. The customer would be accepting the proposal (in the case of the estimate) or would be notified of what the labor rate is before starting the job. I would hope there are no customers out there that are just letting an EC walk in, work until he's done, and accept the bill - with no discussion or understanding of what the terms were - but I may be mistaken.

Brett

[bikeindy]

Here is why I can't charge that $250.00 Or even the $400+. I bid a job the other day. 3300SF new office space wood construction and the owner wants the price to be right so asks for NM wire, all 20 amp circuits. I am ok with that. 200 A service underground to the pole about 100', POCO supplies meter base and underground service wire. owner to provide all surface mount fixtures and I supply the rest. it is office space so lots of phone and cable only a few can lights. My bid comes in at $ 9100.00 She receives a bid from an EC who does lots of production homes has 10+ trucks I am not sure, so I guess he is a little slow right now wants to keep his guys busy. his bid $4750.00 I mean HELLO!!! what the $^%&%^ is he doing? she asks me if I can get closer to that I said, "sure and I'll eat dinner at the soup kitchen.

[emahler]

Here is why I can't charge that $250.00 Or even the $400+. I bid a job the other day. 3300SF new office space wood construction and the owner wants the price to be right so asks for NM wire, all 20 amp circuits. I am ok with that. 200 A service underground to the pole about 100', POCO supplies meter base and underground service wire. owner to provide all surface mount fixtures and I supply the rest. it is office space so lots of phone and cable only a few can lights. My bid comes in at $ 9100.00 She receives a bid from an EC who does lots of production homes has 10+ trucks I am not sure, so I guess he is a little slow right now wants to keep his guys busy. his bid $4750.00 I mean HELLO!!! what the $^%&%^ is he doing? she asks me if I can get closer to that I said, "sure and I'll eat dinner at the soup kitchen.

bike, there is a big difference between $300-$185 and $9100-$4750.

I went to Wendy's the other day. When I go to Wendy's I order the same thing, everytime. 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers, Medium Fries and a Med Coke. 1 yr ago, all for items were on the $0.99 menu. It cost me $4.20 total. The other day, the $0.99 menu is now the $1.09 menu, and it contains small fries and small drink. So my same lunch, that was $4.20 a year ago was $5.41 the other day. Do the math, that is a 23% increase. And people pay it no problem.

Now if the meal was $1000 a year ago and they tried to increase it 23%, that would be a $230 increase. People would say "wait a sec"

Well, extrapolate that to what we do. Our real expenses (gas, materials, food, etc) have all increased at least 20% in the past year. Do you honestly think that a 20-25% increase of your fan install prices will cause you to lose all your work. $185 +20% increase = $222.

Do you think most people will really care if you are $185 or $222?

But 1,850 vs $2,222 is a $400 difference, that's real money to people. But $30 or $40? That's McDonalds for the parents and 2 kids. It's not much these days.

Now, I will add this. In the particular development that you referred to, you are known as the guy who installs fans for $185. Neighbors talk. Your work is for referral. They tell eachother the price. If you suddenly charge $225, you'll have pissed people. But outside of that development, the sky is the limit.

Just whatever price you charge, give the people their money's worth and then some.

[bikeindy]

bike, there is a big difference between $300-$185 and $9100-$4750.

I went to Wendy's the other day. When I go to Wendy's I order the same thing, everytime. 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers, Medium Fries and a Med Coke. 1 yr ago, all for items were on the $0.99 menu. It cost me $4.20 total. The other day, the $0.99 menu is now the $1.09 menu, and it contains small fries and small drink. So my same lunch, that was $4.20 a year ago was $5.41 the other day. Do the math, that is a 23% increase. And people pay it no problem.

Now if the meal was $1000 a year ago and they tried to increase it 23%, that would be a $230 increase. People would say "wait a sec"

Well, extrapolate that to what we do. Our real expenses (gas, materials, food, etc) have all increased at least 20% in the past year. Do you honestly think that a 20-25% increase of your fan install prices will cause you to lose all your work. $185 +20% increase = $222.

Do you think most people will really care if you are $185 or $222?

But 1,850 vs $2,222 is a $400 difference, that's real money to people. But $30 or $40? That's McDonalds for the parents and 2 kids. It's not much these days.

Now, I will add this. In the particular development that you referred to, you are known as the guy who installs fans for $185. Neighbors talk. Your work is for referral. They tell eachother the price. If you suddenly charge $225, you'll have pissed people. But outside of that development, the sky is the limit.

Just whatever price you charge, give the people their money's worth and then some.


Point taken. my point is that people are calling around and $185 is reasonable here and $250 isin't I have had a few calls lately on the fans.( seems no one has any in their new homes) I ask where they live and how they know about me. I was looking to raise my price a bit so I quoted a few at $200. these were to folks that didn't know people who got the $185 price. The answer was, " ok thanks I'll call back later." no call backs on those 3 but scheduled every $185 quote. I don't know it may just have been chance $185 may have gotten the same response from those 3. but like I said I am doing well at $185. for those jobs. installed 134 of those last year. most people have us do 4 at a time.

BTW it is still $.99 here ate at Wendy's today

[emahler]

Now, one thing I can tell you that we do different...we don't quote over the phone. I will say up front, that I am in favor of trip charges, but we don't charge one. Our residential service area is small enough, that we can do without it.

But we won't give a price until we look at it. It makes a huge difference if my tech is there ready to install it and says $350, than if they call me on the phone and I quote $350.

By going there, we've already had them make a committment (sp?) of their time to see us. They can tell us no, and we leave with no problems. But since they already have the time blocked out, and we are already there, what's the big deal to call around and waste time to save $50 or $100.

I don't think there is a contractor out there consistenly getting $300 for a fan install by quoting over the phone. But there are hundreds, if not thousands, that are consistently over $300 by the method we use.

But if you are doing phone quotes, try $199. People have a mental block of $200 vs. $199. It sounds a lot more expensive to them.

Good luck.

As a little food for thought, I recently re-discovered one of my favorite quotes of all time "Whether you think you can or you think you can't. You are correct" - Henry Ford

[bikeindy]

As a little food for thought, I recently re-discovered one of my favorite quotes of all time "Whether you think you can or you think you can't. You are correct" - Henry Ford


I like that. I fired a guy about 16 months ago because he used the word can't one too many times and I had warned him several times and showed him it can be done. I told my 3 boys that can't is a 4 letter word, the word I hate most.

[nysprkdude]

Nothing wrong with that bikeindy.

Where I am - EVERYTHING is expensive ~ NJ is #1 in auto insurance, taxes, blah, blah, blah ;)

Celtic.....in hopes of making you feel better about endeavoring as a contractor in NJ, try NY.

The highest TOTAL taxes (property, sales, income, gasoline, etc.), the highest WC (with the lowest weekly payout for such ), and the cost of living dictates higher wages.

Of course ....the grass is always greener on the other side!

BTW....being a newcomer to the forum, I appreciate the fact that there actually are other contractors who take pride in the trade and represent such with integrity.

Remember...when they ask you how it's going.

It's going....it just ain't going away!

[growler]

how do you determine "gouging"?



"Gouging" is not what most people think it is. Gouging is when you try to take advantage of certain situations. In 2001 we had an ice strom and thousands of people were without power ( trees falling across service cables ). For the next two are three days some contractors charged whatever they wanted and made lots of money ( gouging ). I charged the normal rate and didn't make a killing but didn't gouge.

If your rates are normally $200 and hour and you keep charging $200 and hour then you are not gouging but if your normal rates are $75 an hour and you have an ice storm rate increase to $200 an hour then you are considered to be gouging.

If you keep your rates consistant they may be high but not gouging. If you only charge the old or any other group that may not know any better a high rate then you had better watch out ( you are gouging ).

[celtic]

Celtic.....in hopes of making you feel better about endeavoring as a contractor in NJ, try NY.


NY is a nice place to visit...but I wouldn't want to live there....ahhh, I feel better already :)

About 4 years ago, I almost moved to Staten Island ... I almost won the lottery too, but that didn't work out either :D :D :D