Did I estimate too much?

[Vinniem]

I'd like your opinions on the job I just lost to another licensed contractor.

The job consisted of an add on addition.
The following is all new wire.

2 bedrooms consisting of 14 outlets, 4 circuits-2 lighting, 2 recp., install 2 ceiling fans (provided by homeowner), both controlled by 1 single pole switch

one 20 amp laundry circuit, one 15 amp circuit for lighting ( 1 floresent)controlled by 2 three way switches

one 20 amp bathroom circuit, 1 exhust fan controlled by 1 single pole switch
1 GFI recep.,1 vanity light(provided by homeowner) controlled by 1 single pole switch

1 hallway recp, 1 ceiling light controlled by 2 three way switches-(using circuit feeding laundry room light)

one 15 amp circuit for 4 reg smoke detectors, 1 smoke/co2 detector

I estimated with tax $3638

The contractor that got the job estimated $1500 less!!!!

Did I over bid?

For those who care the job is located in New Jersey

[petersonra]

I don't think it matters much. If you bid enough to cover your costs and make a few bucks on top of that, well, that is your bid. If someone else can do it cheaper, that is his bid.

You cannot bid based on what other people are pricing their jobs at or you will go bankrupt.

Do you know for a fact that the other contractor's bid really was $1500 less?

It is also possible that the EC involved might have some special reason for taking the job at that price. Maybe he has a job next door and is going to do it after hours. maybe he has a lot of leftover material he just wants to use up. Maybe he is better at managing his material costs than you are. maybe he is a faster worker than you are. Maybe he made a mistake when he made the estimate. maybe he figured out some clever way to do it cheaper. who knows?

<added> A place I used to work at had a pricing plan for a short period of time called "market based pricing". basically, they bid jobs based on what they thought the competitor's bids were going to be. The salesmen doing the bidding had no way to know what the competitor's bids were going to be, so I have no clue how they came up with the numbers. It was not a very profitable year. I remember in a company meeting one time, the company president was asked about this practice. His response was "we may lose a little on each job, but we will make it up in volume". Dead silence in the room.

[celtic]

Did you guys even bid the same job?

Did you bid it the way you "prefer" to wire vs. the other EC bidding code minimum/"what's on the print"?

There is a HUGE magin between those two trains.

[ceknight]

I'd like your opinions on the job I just lost to another licensed contractor.

Your bid looks reasonable to me. I wouldn't worry too much about the other guy being $1500 less, it's his cross to bear.

[IllinoisContractor]

Petersonra & Celtic: Well said!

[celtic]

Having been the losing EC one too many times, I have decided it is in my best (financial) interests to be that other EC ...you know the one..bids are usually 1/2 what you submit, wins a lot of the jobs, etc.

You gotta level the playing field or else you are not even in the game....and it's all a game.

[IllinoisContractor]

You gotta value engineer the prints!

[Romex Racer]

A separate 15 Amp circuit for the smoke detectors?

You cannot make money in residential wiring unless you get jobs. You get jobs by being the low bidder. Be very specific in your bid as to the quantites of each item you propose to install. Never use phrases like "Wire to code" or "per plan".

Once you get the job, now you must make the job profitable. This means you must be very aggressive in charging for extras. You must get a written authorization for every extra before you perform any extra work. Don't be bashful, my motto is "Charge Large". The General Contractor will complain but his complaints are music to my ears, if he didn't want this treatment, he should not have choosen the lowest bidder.

Residential contracting revolves solely around low pricing. Whoever delivers the lowest price is considered the "honest contractor" and everyone else is assumed to be a thief.

Buyers of residential wiring are notoriously stupid. They cannot be sold on quality or value, they only want a minimal price. Homeowners and General Contractors always whine about getting "nickle and dime'd to death" but we all know that they will always choose the lowest price, so you must be the lowest price.... At least initially. At the end of the job, you will have been paid the same or more than the other bidders.

Residential estimating is not pretty. Normal business considerations do not apply here. You have to play hard ball. If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

[yanici]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

It's rough out there!8-)

[wbalsam1]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

I have learned that I am not cut out for residential electrical contracting

[emahler]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.


If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?

[IllinoisContractor]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.
petersonra: You had me but then you lost me. The first part I was understanding but then you just got way, way out there.

[celtic]

The bat reference is from Romex Racer, not petersonra.

I think what RR is saying is that resi. is a brutal game not for the weak of heart.

[LarryFine]

If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?No, but it does mean that you'll get more work clubbing people.

[emahler]

No, but it does mean that you'll get more work clubbing people.

Sweet...i'm better at that than electrical work anyway

[IllinoisContractor]

Sorry petersonra.

[macmikeman]

Sweet...i'm better at that than electrical work anyway

Thats what I noticed:grin: :grin:

[electricmanscott]

Back to the original question as I don't have much too say about romex racers coments other than I love to bid against guys with that attitude. Customers are more savy than he gives them credit for and I prefer honesty over snake oil salesmanship as do most of the people I deal with.

Anyway, I don't think the price is out of line but I do think you could do it a little cheaper by not going over board running circuits. You should be able to have one 15 amp circuit for the lighting and smokes rather than the three you propose. Big savings? no but a little bit and there is just no need for them.

[emahler]

there is a HUGE difference between working for a residential GC and for the customer directly.

I said before, working for the customer is easy. that's about sales. apples to oranges.

working for residential GC's (and I use the term lightly, it should be man with little knowledge and huge cajones) really does take the attitude that RR has.

But residential GC's are a different breed.

But working for the customer...features vs. benefits all day long.

But going back to the OP, he did lose the job to someone who thinks the same as RR. Maybe customers aren't so savvy.

[bradleyelectric]

If I'll do it for $400, does that make me a better residential electrical contractor?

As long as you understand that you are going to have to get a signed CO for $1500. stating you are not to leave contact info as to who you were working for after you are awarded the job.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

I thought Brooklyn was tough!

[Vinniem]

Quote "Customers are more savy than he gives them credit for and I prefer honesty over snake oil salesmanship as do most of the people I deal with. "


Bravo Electricmanscott!

[Sierrasparky]

[quote=Romex Racer]A separate 15 Amp circuit for the smoke detectors?

You cannot make money in residential wiring unless you get jobs. You get jobs by being the low bidder. Be very specific in your bid as to the quantites of each item you propose to install. Never use phrases like "Wire to code" or "per plan".

So how do you get away with not wire to code or as per plan. Most plans I ahve ever seen say " EC will follow code. this plan is provided as a graphical representation only. It is the EC reponsibility to provide a working code compliant system.

The plans may not say this exactly but most say similar.
Furthermore it is inplied.
I don;t know how you can stick it to them on extras.. Most contracts specify a amount for labor and materials should there be extra work..

So I how is it you get to slam them on the extras?

[celtic]

So how do you get away with not wire to code or as per plan. Most plans I ahve ever seen say " EC will follow code. this plan is provided as a graphical representation only. It is the EC reponsibility to provide a working code compliant system.

The plans may not say this exactly but most say similar.
Furthermore it is inplied.
I don;t know how you can stick it to them on extras.. Most contracts specify a amount for labor and materials should there be extra work..

So I how is it you get to slam them on the extras?
This is the language that covers the arch. butt:
"EC will follow code. this plan is provided as a graphical representation only. It is the EC reponsibility to provide a working code compliant system."
A working code compliant system is the EC's responsibility. As an arch., it's not his responsibility to show the wiring. He may not be licensed to perform such detail.

The wording is rather vague in that note: to provide a working code compliant system.
Who decides on that?
The NEC...as a minimum fits that language.
Anything over providing a working code compliant system(aka, minimum standard)is an extra, unless of course all parties have agreed, in writing, to the changes and costs associated with the changes.

[emahler]

have any of you done a typical residential remodel lately?

real plans? architect? what the heck do they have to do with your avg. residential remodel?

most resi gc's have a scale drawing that they did, and you work off of that. All the caveats that you see on commercial prints...no where to be found here.

at least that was our experience.

[RUWIREDRITE]

Vinnem,
Dont Fret Too Much About Your Bid, It Looks Pretty Solid, I Guess, It Depends On What States And Areas Your In To See If It Is Competative. I Am A Jersey Based Ec And Has An Average Sized Shop Which We Bid Many Residental Projects Across The State. I Found Out Thru Many Years Of Estimating These Projects Your Always Gonna Be Low Bidded By Other Contractors Who Perhaps Have Less Overhead And Profit Margins.we Mostly Use Unit Pricing To Get Bids And Stick With It, Because If You Figure Your Expenses To Do Specific Type Of Work You Should Be In The Same Ballpark As Most, You Will Never Compete With The Guy Working From His Trunk With No Overhead. I Never Changed My Bid On Most Projects, Due To Sometimes I Been Asked To Sharpen My Pencil To Get A Job, And I Figured If I Must Do That, What Will They Think Of My Original Number ,was I Overcharging Them Or What?you Go With The Flow, Win Some, Lose Some.all In All If Your Honest You Will Get Work.when You Bid List Everything Your Gonna Give Them For The Price Your Asking, So The Customer Can Weigh Apples Against Apples. I Found Out Alot, Most Contractors That Bid Low Leave Out Alot Of Items That Cost The Consumer A Great Deal Later After Awarding Someone The Contract.
Food For Thought.
Happy Easter , Hope It Helped

[emahler]

RU-

you must of graduated from a NJ public high school :D

where in NJ? there are a bunch of us here (watch out for Celtic, he wears a pocket protector;))

[RUWIREDRITE]

As A Matter Of Fact I Did! Lol
Clinton Nj Here. Industrial, Commercial, Residential Ec Here Doing Well Even After 30+ Years (god Will I Ever Retire) Lol

[emahler]

As A Matter Of Fact I Did! Lol
Clinton Nj Here. Industrial, Commercial, Residential Ec Here Doing Well Even After 30+ Years (god Will I Ever Retire) Lol

good luck up there...a little too crowded for me. you are right up in Celt's neighborhood i think. i'm down the shore, exit 105.

you've been at this as long as my father. that makes you officially old. have a great holiday:D

[RUWIREDRITE]

Not Old Just Well Seasoned I Prefer.
But Your Employees Can Sure Give You Gray Hairs At Times. I Keep Saying Keep The Cards And Letters Coming, Or Darn Where Did I Park My Caddy Today. Lol
Enjoy

[emahler]

yep...only 33 here, but plenty of gray hair...working on going bald:(

[Vinniem]

RUWIREDRITE

Thanks for the support. You and I think alike.

It's just fustrating sometimes when you get undercut by someone!

By the way, I graduated from a NJ high school too, North Bergen High,

Class of 82, Glad to see many contractors from Jersey visit this site.

[RUWIREDRITE]

North Hunterdon Regional High School Annandale Nj, Class Of 78
Perhaps We Think Alike If I Remember What I Had For Dinner Last Night, Lol

[emahler]

I would just like to thank you 2 for making me feel young again:D

[RUWIREDRITE]

Dont Worry About Getting Old, Just Make Sure You Put The Dog Out And Kiss The Wifey Goodnight, Dont Get Those Two Mixed Up Or There Will Be Heck To Pay. Lol

[emahler]

But what if the dog treats you better than the wife?

[RUWIREDRITE]

Buy A Boat, Go Fishing And Call It A Day, I Did Been In The Doghouse Ever Since.lol

[Rockyd]

Buy A Boat, Go Fishing And Call It A Day, I Did Been In The Doghouse Ever Since.lol

Obviously you are not aware of what a BOAT stands for?


B - break
O - out
A - another
T - thousand


If this doesn't bother you, I have "the test" to determine if you need to buy the one you're looking at....

[emahler]

when i was younger, i raced sailboats...my favorite way that ocean racing was described to me was:


"put on rain gear, stand in a cold shower, and rip up $100 bills" - that pretty much sums up ocean racing.

[RUWIREDRITE]

I Recently Bought A Boat To Enjoy, A 48 Foot Meridian Yacht , Its No Lil Power Boat And I Enjoy Spending Time On It. It's My Retirement Home So What The Heck. I Know Its Gonna Be My Money Pit But After I Retire A Bad Day Of Fishing Still Beats A Good Day At Work.plus I Can Bring 10 Of My Closest Friends For A Day Of Fishing And Fun.it's All Good And To Boot My Wifey Was All For It. Go Figure
Enjoy

[tonype]

Your bid looks reasonable to me. I wouldn't worry too much about the other guy being $1500 less, it's his cross to bear.


I am not a contractor - however, about 10 years ago I heard a saying that if you get every job you bid on you are not charging enough. I took that to heart and raised my fees.

You really need to look at all of your expenses - this is a very difficult task to do for most people. This includes a salary for you as well as a business profit (for your management of the business).

Just remember that if you cannot make more being in business for yourself (with all the headaches of payroll, insurances (I spend $30K a year for E&O, health, disability, life and vehicle insurances - ouch! - for a 2 person operation) than you could working for someone else, then you should close up shop and work for someone else.

I would also think in your business, you will uncover alot of things once you get stated and the HO will start asking for a bunch of small extras that you will end up doing gratis.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Regards,
Tony Shupenko, PE

[celtic]

(watch out for Celtic, he wears a pocket protector;))

LMAO.

Lemme tell you...a pocket protector and some tattoo's is a fierce combiation...people don't know if you're gonna bury them with numbers or kick their butt :D ...either way, they know they are going down ;)

[LarryFine]

Vinnem,
Dont Fret Too Much About Your Bid, It Looks Pretty Solid, I Guess, It Depends On What States And Areas Your In To See If It Is Competative. I Am A Jersey Based Ec And Has An Average Sized Shop Which We Bid Many Residental Projects Across The State. I Found Out Thru Many Years Of Estimating These Projects Your Always Gonna Be Low Bidded By Other Contractors Who Perhaps Have Less Overhead And Profit Margins.we Mostly Use Unit Pricing To Get Bids And Stick With It, Because If You Figure Your Expenses To Do Specific Type Of Work You Should Be In The Same Ballpark As Most, You Will Never Compete With The Guy Working From His Trunk With No Overhead. I Never Changed My Bid On Most Projects, Due To Sometimes I Been Asked To Sharpen My Pencil To Get A Job, And I Figured If I Must Do That, What Will They Think Of My Original Number ,was I Overcharging Them Or What?you Go With The Flow, Win Some, Lose Some.all In All If Your Honest You Will Get Work.when You Bid List Everything Your Gonna Give Them For The Price Your Asking, So The Customer Can Weigh Apples Against Apples. I Found Out Alot, Most Contractors That Bid Low Leave Out Alot Of Items That Cost The Consumer A Great Deal Later After Awarding Someone The Contract.
Food For Thought.
Happy Easter , Hope It Helped And I nominate this one for second-hardest to read. Here's how it should look, with some spelling and punctuation also corrected. Let me know if you think it's easier to read.


Vinnem,
Don't fret too much about your bid, it looks pretty solid. I guess it depends on what states and areas you're in to see if it is competitive. I am a Jersey-based EC and have an average-sized shop.

We bid many residental projects across the state. I found out thru many years of estimating these projects you're always gonna be low-bid by other contractors who perhaps have less overhead and profit margins.

We mostly use unit pricing to get bids and stick with it, because if you figure your expenses to do specific type of work, you should be in the same ballpark as most. You will never compete with the guy working from his trunk with no overhead.

I never changed my bid on most projects, due to: sometimes I have been asked to sharpen my pencil to get a job, and I figured if I must do that, what will they think of my original number? Was I over-charging them or what?

You go with the flow; win some, lose some. All in all, if you're honest, you will get work. When you bid, list everything you're gonna give them for the price you're asking, so the customer can weigh apples against apples.

I found out a lot (?), most contractors that bid low leave out a lot of items that cost the consumer a great deal later, after awarding someone the contract. Food for thought.

Happy Easter, Hope it helped.

[RUWIREDRITE]

no pun intended.i do have a masters degree in english, but a minors degree in typing and computer spell checker. forgive me
all is good!

[Romex Racer]

I've never seen anyone with a masters degree in english write in all lower case.

[hardworkingstiff]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

Sadly, I laughed too long on this. :grin:

[AES1005]

Your'e bid sounds reasonable, I had a customer tell me once that they accepted a bid half of mine. Set your cost and profit and stick to it.

[growler]

If someone offered you $500 to take a baseball bat and beat a stranger to death would you do it? If your answer is no, you are not cut out for residential electrical contracting.

If any of these strangers that you speak of are politicians, lawyers or
General Contractors I may even give you a better price than that. If we can get some sort of volume business going.

[quogueelectric]

In my area smokes must be on the master bedroom lighting ckt. If the circuit trips you will know soon enough and have to fix the problem. If the circuit trips on a ckt by itself you may never know the ckt is out( unless of course they are combo bat backup) the job will get knocked down.

[SeanKelly]

Pics from latest rough

[dduffee260]

That is a nice looking set up. The way the wires are ran down to the panel are the way wire is supposed to be installed, not bundled with tywraps or installed in 2-2" conduits like alot of people do. Great job on the craftsmanship.

I need to take some pics of things our guys do. We got one person that is pretty slick at terminating branch wiring if given the time.

[emahler]

Sean,

Very nice. you obviously had someone who cared do the work inside. However, on the outside, it appears that the nipple between the meter and disconnect is sloped for drainage. is that an optical illusion?

what do you think Capt. PP (Pocket Protector)?

[the blue mule]

As an installer/ Inspector I have found that most maufactures do require A dedicated circut to smoke detectors.

[Brady Electric]

I could not have said it better than Petersonra did. I get all my jobs by word of mouth and I'm usually higher than all others, what matters is you are happy with your bid no matter what. Experence is the best teacher. Semper Fi

[Brady Electric]

And I nominate this one for second-hardest to read. Here's how it should look, with some spelling and punctuation also corrected. Let me know if you think it's easier to read.


Vinnem,
Don't fret too much about your bid, it looks pretty solid. I guess it depends on what states and areas you're in to see if it is competitive. I am a Jersey-based EC and have an average-sized shop.

We bid many residental projects across the state. I found out thru many years of estimating these projects you're always gonna be low-bid by other contractors who perhaps have less overhead and profit margins.

We mostly use unit pricing to get bids and stick with it, because if you figure your expenses to do specific type of work, you should be in the same ballpark as most. You will never compete with the guy working from his trunk with no overhead.

I never changed my bid on most projects, due to: sometimes I have been asked to sharpen my pencil to get a job, and I figured if I must do that, what will they think of my original number? Was I over-charging them or what?

You go with the flow; win some, lose some. All in all, if you're honest, you will get work. When you bid, list everything you're gonna give them for the price you're asking, so the customer can weigh apples against apples.

I found out a lot (?), most contractors that bid low leave out a lot of items that cost the consumer a great deal later, after awarding someone the contract. Food for thought.

Happy Easter, Hope it helped.
Larry, I have always respected your thoughts and i do appreciate your commits but i thought e-mails as fun and a learning experence. some of us like to type like we talk besides when i graduated in 1966 we didn't have english books. Thank's Larry just having a little fun with you, all your commits are appreciated. Semper Fi Buddy

[JES2727]

And I nominate this one for second-hardest to read. Here's how it should look, with some spelling and punctuation also corrected. Let me know if you think it's easier to read.


Vinnem,
Don't fret too much about your bid, it looks pretty solid. I guess it depends on what states and areas you're in to see if it is competitive. I am a Jersey-based EC and have an average-sized shop.

We bid many residental projects across the state. I found out thru many years of estimating these projects you're always gonna be low-bid by other contractors who perhaps have less overhead and profit margins.

We mostly use unit pricing to get bids and stick with it, because if you figure your expenses to do specific type of work, you should be in the same ballpark as most. You will never compete with the guy working from his trunk with no overhead.

I never changed my bid on most projects, due to: sometimes I have been asked to sharpen my pencil to get a job, and I figured if I must do that, what will they think of my original number? Was I over-charging them or what?

You go with the flow; win some, lose some. All in all, if you're honest, you will get work. When you bid, list everything you're gonna give them for the price you're asking, so the customer can weigh apples against apples.

I found out a lot (?), most contractors that bid low leave out a lot of items that cost the consumer a great deal later, after awarding someone the contract. Food for thought.

Happy Easter, Hope it helped.

Thanks to Larry for sorting this out. I got about a third of the way through this post as it was originally typed and skipped the rest. No offense intended to our friend from Clinton, I just found it really hard to read.

Exit 8A here, by the way.

[donselectric]

are those sealing locknuts.....

[sidbobb]

Here in Indiana you would be lucky to get the job at $2000

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Interesting aside: My dispatcher @ work just got an estimate to rewire, completely, a 4-room 2nd fl. addition on his house, old work, no access above or below. Kitchen 2 bedrooms a lr. and a bathroom. This addition was done in the 70's with aluminum as a mother/daughter apartment. Existing house all copper. Separate service 100a and separate boiler.

2 kit. SA circuits and 1 refg. ckt. 2 GFCIs & 5 outets.l
Boiler ckt.
Bath 20a gfci ckt.
2 15a ckts. for livingroom & bedrooms.
About 28 outlets total
1 set of 3-ways & fixture. (stairs)
Kitchen and bath lights and switches 2sw / 2lts.
1 40a 240v range ckt.
New 100a meter, 100a disconnect in basement (grouped next to existing main breaker panel.) And 100a 20 ckt pnl. on 2nd fl. (In the actual addition.)

Without doing any patching, $15,000.00.

Figures 2-men @2 x 8 hour days.

[bradleyelectric]

Does that include her employee discount?

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Dispatcher is a he... and this quote was from a yellow pages contractor.

[satcom]

Interesting aside: My dispatcher @ work just got an estimate to rewire, completely, a 4-room 2nd fl. addition on his house, old work, no access above or below. Kitchen 2 bedrooms a lr. and a bathroom. This addition was done in the 70's with aluminum as a mother/daughter apartment. Existing house all copper. Separate service 100a and separate boiler.

2 kit. SA circuits and 1 refg. ckt. 2 GFCIs & 5 outets.l
Boiler ckt.
Bath 20a gfci ckt.
2 15a ckts. for livingroom & bedrooms.
About 28 outlets total
1 set of 3-ways & fixture. (stairs)
Kitchen and bath lights and switches 2sw / 2lts.
1 40a 240v range ckt.
New 100a meter, 100a disconnect in basement (grouped next to existing main breaker panel.) And 100a 20 ckt pnl. on 2nd fl. (In the actual addition.)

Without doing any patching, $15,000.00.

Figures 2-men @2 x 8 hour days.

The price is about right give or take a few bucks, but the hours may be a bit off, you did say old work.

2-men @2 x 8 hour days with hachet 1X2ft openings, cable laid in attic area not secured, and boom box at full blast, plus 3 or more return trips to get things right.

2-men @6.5 X 7 hour days plus, with very little patch work, cables secured, no noise in the neighborhood, and one retyrn trip for finish work.

[brantmacga]

Pics from latest rough


>>EDITED original question - read code, now understand my question<<<<

your neutral and ground terminations look almost identical to what i do.

http://www.mcdonaldelectric.com/images/panel.jpg

[quogueelectric]

not sure if your 4 ckts were redundant please break down job more specifically for me.dont worry about the lowballer he will be too busy to make all of his apptmnts as he goes out of buisness. I came in about 4500 butn I think the homeruns were repeated in the description please clarify exactly scope of work.

[justajake]

I also just priced a job and want some advice if I priced to high. Basement that had mold and was gutted. all recepticals left with wires in wall, (not to code), but didn't want me to touch any of that other than change the outlet s to white. wanted 17 recessed. (in a dropped ceiling. Had to demo some old wire and lighting. Had to add 2 porceleans with switching in mehanical room, find feed for 10 of the 17 recessed. also put in switch/dimmer. add outlet under stairs. Moving up to a bathroom, relocate vanity lights (higher) and move GFCi to put plate on. no permit involved. I was brought in by carpenter. Electrical price 4080.00. Of course I would fix anything that was not code. Also had to add CO detector.