To high?

[Oakey]

For FUN would my price be to high on this? I know, I know, charge what u need LOL...but nonetheless what do you guys think cause I didn't get it anyway.

1) Replace 200 amp FP panel with CH main 200 with about...14 breakers in it. Jump water meter.
2) O/S wire sems decent just have to reattach it on the lower end due to the siders.
3) Run 2-20 ampers about 30 ft thru basement to micro outlet and new kit GFI location. These are fairly accessible installs.
4) Take the existing microwave outlet off of one leg of the 40 amp alum 220 volt stove line. Nice DIY..In an FP nonetheless.
5) Mess in the basement . "(Hey I'll have it cleaned up for ya)". Yea right..

I bid $1330.00 and got outbid by another EC.
Panel $850
Other stuff $480
Thoughts pls, and I'm in northern NJ.

[Sierrasparky]

price seems ok to me.
Did you get out bid or were you not the last guy..
Sometimes it pays to be the last one bidding

[celtic]

I bid $1330.00 and got outbid by another EC.
Panel $850
Other stuff $480
Thoughts pls, and I'm in northern NJ.

My price:
1) $1200 for panel, $1400 if recessed and I don't repair the wall.
2) Tossed in with #1
3) $300...both, includes wire, CBs, boxes, devices, etc
4) In with #3
5) Damn right you will....sign here, here and here, don't forget to sign the deposit check.
6) PERMIT FEE NOT INCLUDED ...every town is different...for my town, I already have the permit fee schedule, I can get a permit in/out the door in under 1/2 hour...or even drop it off the day before I want a final :)

So I'm at $1500 - $1700.

I think your customer has been cruising craig's list.

[electricguy]

my price replace panel 1520
20 amp circuit 228.00
but i am in canada eh

[Rockyd]

Hey Oakey, you might have got lucky by not getting the bid.

[hardworkingstiff]

Hey Oakey, you might have got lucky by not getting the bid.

Rocky,

You are so correct on this! Sometimes it's better to "not" get the job.

[emahler]

see, the problem is that your overhead is too high. you need to cut your overhead. you need to work more efficiently. and you need to buy your material better.

that job should not go for more than $1000 all inclusive.

Let's break it down...

$15/hr for your labor - (that's a fair number) x 16 hrs =$225
forget health insurance, it's unnecessary overhead. marry a girl who gets health insurance through work.

material - go to home depot and by the Homeline contractors packs for about $150.

Other breakers and misc material - $150

So now we have a total cost of $525.

That leaves you $475 to cover the rest of your overhead. Buy an older truck, no payments (saves on overhead)

Work out of your garage - saves on overhead

advertising is for rip-offs, word of mouth is free and all any good contractor needs (saves on overhead)

telephone with an anwering machine works fine (saves on overhead)

So as you can see Oakey, you were clearly trying to rip those poor homeowners off. I'm in NJ and I know what jobs should cost. We probably could have done it for $800, gave the customers a great deal, and still made a profit.

So don't go blaming the guy who was cheaper than you, maybe he's just a better businessman....

[emahler]

:D :D :D

Why couldn't you have posted this on April 1st?

[Rockyd]

Eric,

Let me say it as one of Seinfeld's best episodes, involving the Soup Nazi




NO SOUP FOR YOU!

[emahler]

too hot for soup:D

besides, i got tons of work to do. everyone wants us. we do the best work.:D

[kingpb]

$15/hr for your labor - (that's a fair number) x 16 hrs =$225

material - go to home depot and by the Homeline contractors packs for about $150.

Other breakers and misc material - $150

So now we have a total cost of $525.


No wonder you get jobs cheap, you give discounts on your labor.....

$15 x 16 = $240

If you are paying $15 per hour, then you should be charging no less then $26/hr to cover benefits etc. which is no less then $416.

Based on the ($300 in material x (1.10 profit)) + ($416(labor) x 1.25 (O&P)) + (Equip x 1.10 profit)= $850

If I was having this work done, $850-$900 would seem reasonable, but $1300+ would not get the job.

If your concerned with the basement conditions, qualify your bid with a statement that says, "The Owner agrees to clear objects from working area, and the bid price is based on no lost productivity due to working conditions of the basement. Additonal time spent for moving objects not cleared by Owner, prior to commencement of work, will be billed at additional $30/hr.

Standard O&P is 10% on material, 10% on equipment, and 25% on labor. The labor rate is based on wages and other incidentals usually 1.75 x wages. To cover vehicle on service work, you need to throw in something like $0.485/mile x # mi/day. That equates to about $/hr added to job time (for each vehicle) while in use.

[emahler]

See, I thought it was just cause I was a better electrician that I could charge only $15/man hour.

And 10% markup...that's highway robbery.

I can do it for $900 and make 40% Net Profit. Beat that.

[kingpb]

See, I thought it was just cause I was a better electrician that I could charge only $15/man hour.

And 10% markup...that's highway robbery.

I can do it for $900 and make 40% Net Profit. Beat that.

I'm sure you can.......but that's why electricians don't make as much money as they should, their to willing to cut each others throat. I was making $15/hr in 1990 before I went and got my engineering degree.

At a 3% increase per year (to account just for inflation) you should be paying yourself $24/hr today. A top notch journeyman today should be making about $50k per year, plus benefits. Which is around what an entry level engineer gets.

As a group of skilled tradesmen I would think you would want to make what your worth.

[emahler]

$50k a year???!!!! that's just crazy talk.

I can live on $15/hr before taxes, why can't others. Our guys are quick and do great work. None of them cost me more than $15/hr.

Since we are so good, we are flooded with work. Can't keep up. We're working 12-14 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

Just because we keep our overhead low, and do our work faster than most, don't be hatin'

[kingpb]

Charge more, work less = make same, fish more...........:grin:

Charge more, work same = make more, pay someone to fish for you, drink more beer:grin: :D

[dduffee260]

$50k a year???!!!! that's just crazy talk.

I can live on $15/hr before taxes, why can't others. Our guys are quick and do great work. None of them cost me more than $15/hr.

Since we are so good, we are flooded with work. Can't keep up. We're working 12-14 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

Just because we keep our overhead low, and do our work faster than most, don't be hatin'

You are working 12-14 hours a day for $15.00 an hour. I did the same thing until I got smart and now I work 8 hours a day for $60 an hour 5 days a week. If your theory works then why not work for $8.00 an hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week? Your overhead is actually not that low, you just are not making as much profit as you should.

Your equipment is going to wear out, you will want to buy tools. It would be nice to have a newer work vehicle just to look a little more shiney. Maybe someday you will actually want to put money in the bank instead of just making a living.

Working too cheap is the #1 reason beginning contractors go out of business. You can live on $15.00 an hour, but wouldn't it be nice to make $20.00 so you could pad you wallet a little? If you really think you are that good then go up in price just a little. If you are then they will keep using you, if they don't call you then you found out the real reason you were so popular.

Like I used to say " I used to have the best friends money could buy till I ran out of money"

[emahler]

dduffee,

i keep my overhead really low...almost non existant...

so I should charge more money than I have to, just so you can rip your customers off? $60/hr....that's akin to stealing their 1st born.

If you are making $60/hr x 40 hr, then you are pocketing $2400/week? What do you need all of that money for?

I can raise my rates, no one in their right mind would pay that much money just to have some electrical work done.

nope, i'm for the consumer. I'll save them money, no matter how much it costs me.

If you are truly a good electrician, like me, you don't need fancy trucks or advertising. No body cares about that anyway. They just want me to come in and fix their problem as cheap as possible.

Sorry, gotta go back to work now. We start at 4am and work to 8pm every day. Bet you can't say the same.

[dduffee260]

dduffee,

If you are making $60/hr x 40 hr, then you are pocketing $2400/week? What do you need all of that money for?

nope, i'm for the consumer. I'll save them money, no matter how much it costs me.

If you are truly a good electrician, like me, you don't need fancy trucks or advertising. No body cares about that anyway. They just want me to come in and fix their problem as cheap as possible.

Sorry, gotta go back to work now. We start at 4am and work to 8pm every day. Bet you can't say the same.

You are wrong, I am not pocketing $2400 a week. I have workers comp, gl insurance, taxes, phone bills, utilities, cell phones, tires, oil, building maintanence all to pay for. I promise you my friend, you think you are pocketing it all, but in reality you are not. I used to think the same thing, it took me years to figure out that I worked too cheap for many years. I am not doing this to make someone get wealthy. We don't have fancy trucks, they are late model and it reflects well on the company. People do care what a vehicle looks like.

As far as going to work at 4 am till 8 pm, you are right. I cannot say I do, I learned to make the same amount of money working 8am till 4 pm that you make in those hours. I guess you got me on that one. While you are out working at 4 am I am at home in bed. You won that contest. I will forfeit the 8 pm thing also. You will realize one day you deprived yourself out of alot of extra money that you may need sometime. Don't get me wrong, we don't gigi people, but we do have a bottom line, and truth is our helpers we charge $25 an hour for and get it. From what I gather we are on the low scale of rates here at $75 an hour per crew. Up North and on the West coast they charge and get over $100 an hour per person.

Oh, and you asked what do I need the money for? I usually like to have a little on hand to buy the equipment from electrical contractors that went broke from working too cheap.

[emahler]

i work by myself, so no workers comp. pagers work fine, no cell phone needed. My buddy Cletus, he's an ace auto mechanic and fixes all my equipment for parts and beer. My office is an answering machine in the kitchen. Works just fine, thank you very much.

I bet you waste money on advertising too. Only bad electricians need to advertise for work.

I make plenty of bank, thank you very much. I just don't feel the need to charge good, honest, hardworking customers any more money than I already do. I mean, most of my customers only make $15-$18/hr, how can I justify making more than them?

My friend Al Goldstein is a financial genius. He made a ton of money before his magazine went bankrupt. But he's still a genius. He says that I don't need to pay my taxes. That only big corporations need to pay taxes, you know, their fair share. So he told me to hold all the money until the government asks for it. Then we can negotiate. I'll save thousands in negotiations. He says that's how real businessmen do it.

So, I'll keep charging what I need to charge. I'll get all the work, cause I do a good job for people. And we'll see who's laughing at the end;)

[FrancisDoody]

You have to be kidding......There is no way that a corporation could survive in the Northeast US and charge $15.00 per hour per man.

Just figure the burden that you pay the Federal, state, county for taxes. Next Workman's Comp is a must is this business. I will not start a job with out WC. I can't imagine what would happen to me if someone got hurt on the job and the policy was not in effect.

No one would work for you. They would leave as soon as they got a better offer. You would be turning over crews. Your work would suffer. Scheduling would be a diaster.

But if you can pull it off your a better man than me.

Good luck!

[j_erickson]

I hope everyone realizes emahler is kidding! I've been LMAO reading this thread.

[haskindm]

It looks like some people don't know when their leg is being pulled!

[jbfan74]

I hope everyone realizes emahler is kidding! I've been LMAO reading this thread.
I have heard he reallys charges $150 an hour.

[emahler]

We used to charge alot...But I got tired of it...This is working out much better. Much simpler. and I can sleep better at night

[emahler]

I was wondering if we could just keep this up till next April 1st:)

[celtic]

Now find me a good technician who is willing to work hard for $50k a year, and I'll hire him 10 mins ago.

Is a "technician" what we are calling electricians these days?

[emahler]

Is a "technician" what we are calling electricians these days?


Yeah, it's PC....think Sanitary Engineer.

Besides, electricians are neanderthals who don't charge enough...technicians are high tech and expensive.

[celtic]

Ok, double your offer and include the pies and I'm heading South ;)

[Oakey]

http://www.allemoticons.com/Money/Money_0031.gif (http://www.allemoticons.com/Money/Money_0031.shtml) $$$ Is what we are talking here guys http://www.allemoticons.com/Money/Money_0011.gif (http://www.allemoticons.com/Money/Money_0011.shtml)
I just wanted opinions on my price given the fact that I've lost a few to many jobs recently and it's been a slow winter. And Mahler, thanks for the laf I needed it today.Al Goldstein LOL
Now as far as the wife getting health Ins...I have sort of a Peggy Bundy situation, but thats a whole diff subject. http://www.allemoticons.com/Drinking/Drinking_trink38.gif (http://www.allemoticons.com/Drinking/Drinking_trink38.shtml)

[emahler]

oakey, where in NJ are you.

From mile 100ish to 129ish, you are in the ballpark. it's a cheap ballpark, but that's what it is.

from 130ish to 150ish, you're a little low.

from 150ish to 165ish, you're way low

from 165ish to NY state, you are probably high.

south of mile 100, you'd be better off scraping barnacles than trying to make money doing electrical work.

For this project we'd be around $2000-$2500. Heck we'd be at $1400-$1500 just for the panel change. Then again we'd use SQ D QO and you would never know we were there. But there will always be someone cheaper.

A guy who knows the game really well once told me....if you are doing residential new construction/renovations, you are dealing with the bottom of the barrel. Get used to it. (or something along those lines)

the $$$$ are that there is no way someone can legitmately do it for less than you. They either low balled it and will bang the hell out of the HO for CO. In my opinion, that makes them a scumbag. Or they missed something. Or they believed the BS they read about guys making money charging $45/hr (without realizing that those guys have 100 men in the field and make $10/hr on each man - or $1000 an hour to cover OH)

Regardless of the reason, don't cut your own throat to compete. Hell, you'd be better off going to work for someone else than dropping your pants to compete. At least then you'd get a paycheck, benefits and vacation.

You know Al?

edit- realized i was thinking of another job in regards to our pricing. We'd be over $2000 on this job without batting an eye

[celtic]

edit- realized i was thinking of another job in regards to our pricing. We'd be over $2000 on this job without batting an eye

My price:

So I'm at $1500 - $1700.



Either you're OH is too high, or mine is too low ....I was thinking about a new van :D

[emahler]

not at all...my overhead is fine...i can make money on that job at $1300-$1500. I just don't think profit is a dirty word. I have absolutely no problem making 20% or 40% profit. I don't subscribe to the theory that we have to make only 10% like some guys think.