Basement pricing too High?

[justajake]

priced the following at 4080.00 too high??? Basemdnt that was gutted. only thing left was wires in wall, with outlets. NOt all to code. HO wanted me to change all outlets to white. put in 17 recessed in drop ceiling with switching, two lights in mechanical room with switching. run new switching for office recessed. 1/2 day of demo. add co detector, reattatch smoke to ceiling. add outlet under stairs. Also up stairs, in bath , move vanity lights up approx 4 feet. and GCI up about 8 inches. Carpenter referred, he did not pull a permit. Of course I will fix anything not to code.

[charlie tuna]

who's buying the 17 fixtures?? hay, your price is your price!!! you will find out, your way too low on jobs and you need to get a few jobs that you figured too high!!! of course your h.o. doesn't understand that... i priced out a very large university's job of retrofitting all their parking lot light fixtures from h.p.s. to metal halide---400 watt fixtures. the job had over three hundred fixtures and the work had to be done on the weekends. my price was almost half of the other six contractors ----i went over the estimate three times to check myself--- two of the contractors came out during the work to see how we were doing it!!! three areas the other contractors had added money for was labor to block off the parking areas(we had the university police secure the areas), transport the original fixtures off site(we had the maintainance engineers take them for spare parts) and an extra crane to remove fixtures (we lowered the old fixture and raised the new one with the same crane) and we prefabed all the fixtures and had them at the base of their pole during straight time weekday.... it's less nerve racking to know your going to make money on a job as your working it. as an apprentice, i witnessed the contractor i worked for, discuss a price with the customer that was twice what he had figured----16k was what he figure and the customer offered him 38k before he had a chance to tell him the bid... was he happy??? yes! but then he explained "son, you need a job like this one, to make up for the ones we loose money on!!!".........

[growler]

justajake, I bid an addition just the other day that I thought the price was a little high but I couldn't bring myself to reduce it any. I know the people and I know the house ( have done work there before). There are other factors to bidding than just counting up the devices. If you think the job is woth 4K then that's what you should bid at. You have seen the job and talked to the owner and we haven't. There is no set price for electrical work, if someone wants to do it cheaper then let them have it and move on to the next job. Some contractors try to get every job but I think you are better off to pass on a few.

[justajake]

Im buying all the stock.

[Minuteman]

You are miles ahead o yourself by biding the $4080 than doing it T&M and it coming to $4500 and then listen to them squeal.

[celtic]

Carpenter referred, he did not pull a permit. Of course I will fix anything not to code.

That's comforting to know....will you be pulling a permit?

[justajake]

Thought I was going to be calling 911 for the HO. Said she was on a budget and didn't budget this much. Wait till she gets the carpenters bill, I already talked to him.

[mdshunk]

The single most satisfying thing about losing a bid on a basement remodel is turning in the homeowner and the carpenter for no permits if you don't win the work. ;)

[justajake]

Not doing the job

[justajake]

Didnt get the job

[LarryFine]

Isn't there a way to let new-to-the-forum guys know that their posts will not appear right away?

Even then, why show all the "deleted - duplicate" posts?

[celtic]

Isn't there a way to let new-to-the-forum guys know that their posts will not appear right away?


You really expect someone - let alone an electrician - to read the instructions?


LOL

:grin:

[justajake]

Not just an electrician,but a firefighter to boot. we dont have time to read, we just do it.

[480sparky]

Apparently, they do not how to 'Refresh" a page.

[jaylectricity]

Not just an electrician,but a firefighter to boot. we dont have time to read, we just do it.

Hey no prob...at least you know now. Stick with your price but I would advise against Mdunks thoughts about turning in fellow mankind who are also just trying to feed their families.

[celtic]

... I would advise against Mdunks thoughts about turning in fellow mankind who are also just trying to feed their families.

I would advise against jaylectricity advise regarding Mdshunk's advise.

There's a right way and wrong way to do things.
Doing things the right way levels the playing field(to some degree).
If this other person needs to feed his family, how is that my problem?
My problem - along with many other legit contractors - is the illegitimate guys cutting our throats just to feed "their" family...what about ALL the families that depend on US to keep their Dad employed?

[stickboy1375]

If its one thing I REALLY learned here, is that doing illegal side work is not the way to feed your family...

[jaylectricity]

Well then I guess you guys are all saints and have never had to compromise against the government's will.

I guess if you find some unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat you might want to speak up but in my hippie opinion we are all on this earth together.

[stickboy1375]

Has nothing to do with being a saint...

[jaylectricity]

Has nothing to do with being a saint...

Damn that was fast. Too fast for my editing to add a sentence.

[jaylectricity]

I've already stated my opinion on how stupid us electricians are when it comes to competition so I guess I'm being a little hypocritical when I forgive the illegal side work for less money thing...

I guess I'm kind of torn here.

[celtic]

Well then I guess you guys are all saints and have never had to compromise against the government's will.
Compromise is one thing...flat out ignoring is another.



I guess if you find some unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat you might want to speak up but in my hippie opinion we are all on this earth together.

How could one speak up againts an "unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat "?
If the guys an EC - he's abiding by the rules(licensing, permits, etc )....at least one would hope he is.
If he's found a way to support his family by "cutting my throat"...so be it....but just how long will this unscrupulous EC be able to survive in a low profit world?

Now if the guy is not a bona fide EC...too bad, play by the rules or goto the penalty box :D

[480sparky]

I do not 'compete' with the fly-by-night guys. They are not 'competition'. All I need to ask the HO is, "Well, are they licensed? Bonded? Insured? Do they have a permit? Is your home and family worth it?"

[celtic]

One question is enough for me:
Has the GC/carpenter filed a permit already?

I could care less what the answer is...I'm going to pull a permit.

[jaylectricity]

Compromise is one thing...flat out ignoring is another.




How could one speak up againts an "unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat "?
If the guys an EC - he's abiding by the rules(licensing, permits, etc )....at least one would hope he is.
If he's found a way to support his family by "cutting my throat"...so be it....but just how long will this unscrupulous EC be able to survive in a low profit world?

Now if the guy is not a bona fide EC...too bad, play by the rules or goto the penalty box :D


I agree with that statement in this way: If there is an electrician who isn't licensed as so...then I guess I say, "Yeah...turn him in," because we went to school and put in the necessary hours to be good qualified electricians who understand that we have human lives in our hands. However if the guy is licensed and doesn't always pull permits I'm not completely against that.

Obviously if the reason he isn't pulling permits is because he wants to break the law and create unsafe conditions for the sake of making a better dollar I'm not going to support him. (or her)

[jaylectricity]

One question is enough for me:
Has the GC/carpenter filed a permit already?

I could care less what the answer is...I'm going to pull a permit.

I did the very same thing a few months ago. I pulled a permit to replace the outdated service and add a few plugs and a light to a basement office. I knew the GC didn't pull a permit and I told the AHJ that I was interested in making sure my work was done properly and inspected to insure that. He was fine with it, reminded me to put an expansion joint in the PVC riser because I had a fixed 90 and signed me off.

[celtic]

However if the guy is licensed and doesn't always pull permits I'm not completely against that.

Obviously if the reason he isn't pulling permits is because he wants to break the law and create unsafe conditions for the sake of making a better dollar I'm not going to support him. (or her)

What possible reason would be worth it for not pulling a permit?
Sure, you could roll the dice and hope you aren't caught...but is it worth it?
You're reputation gets soiled
Fines/penalties get levied
etc

[jaylectricity]

What possible reason would be worth it for not pulling a permit?
Sure, you could roll the dice and hope you aren't caught...but is it worth it?
You're reputation gets soiled
Fines/penalties get levied
etc

I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.

I don't want to break any rules in this forum but don't you feel sometimes that the government isn't always in the right? So sometimes I wonder just how important it is to pay the right money to the right agencies just so another human being who is just as fallible as you and I can judge my work.

I really detest when people say things like, "You gotta play the game." In my opinion that is the kind of thinking that will ruin us.

[celtic]

I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.

I don't want to break any rules in this forum but don't you feel sometimes that the government isn't always in the right? So sometimes I wonder just how important it is to pay the right money to the right agencies just so another human being who is just as fallible as you and I can judge my work.

I really detest when people say things like, "You gotta play the game." In my opinion that is the kind of thinking that will ruin us.
Don't get me wrong here...the gov't is NOT always correct. Fighting them can sometimes be an uphill battle pushing a large ball...only to have thwe ball run you over. :)

Getting a license is a strange thing...one day you are "just" an electrician ~ the next you are a "licensed" electrician...free (within reason) to do whatever you want. Like it was a miracle or something (for some, maybe it was a miracle they passed the test LOL). But you get the point.

In the case of permits and inspections...mistakes happen on the permits, inspectors make mistakes...yes, we are all human...but when it comes to another's property, there has to be a paper trail.

Of course, this is not true for every State in the union...some have no licensing requirements...no inspections...etc.

When in Rome...

[mdshunk]

I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.
So... are you still advising against my advice? :wink:

[jaylectricity]

So... are you still advising against my advice? :wink:

I guess not Marc. I just PM'd you before I read this last comment from you.

[emahler]

I would advise against jaylectricity advise regarding Mdshunk's advise.

There's a right way and wrong way to do things.
Doing things the right way levels the playing field(to some degree).
If this other person needs to feed his family, how is that my problem?
My problem - along with many other legit contractors - is the illegitimate guys cutting our throats just to feed "their" family...what about ALL the families that depend on US to keep their Dad employed?

I agree with Celtics advice, regarding Jaycity's advice, in relation to Mdshunks advice...

I need to feed my family too,...I just try to do it legally...

[satcom]

When I started out in the trade, the economy shifted for a few years, and, I found myself laid off, with a family to support, at that time I had the offer to work side jobs, without license, and without permits, very tempting offer, but I at least I knew what a red light was, and understood, going thru that red light had a penalty, very basic concept.
I need to feed my family, would of been a poor excuse, for breaking the law. It was difficult to accept a job, cleaning tiolets, and scrubbing floors, when I was an electrician, with skills, that job provided for my family, and I am greatfull to this day, for having it.

[480sparky]

One thing I have never heard electricians complain about: illegal aliens. We may moan and gripe about fly-by-night electricians wiring tract housing at $2/ft², but how many illegals have you seen with a pair of strippers? Talk to a legitimate sheetrocker, framer, roofer or landscaper if you want to get an earful.