GFCI testers

[electricguy61]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why some receptacle testers with GFI test buttons work (will trip the GFCI or GFI) while others do not?

Is there something on a tester that would "wear out"?

I recently scheduled a final, and just before the inspector was to arrive, checked the kitchen outlets with my three light receptacle tester. The GFCI test button didn't work to trip the protector. Inspector shows up a few minutes later with her own tester and everything worked as expected.

Also, in your experience, do the more expensive 3 light testers ($20-$30) work any better then the $7.50 ones?

Thanks

BTW: For those of you that read all the posts, I asked recently about installling the island receptacle just inside a cabinet door. I was given excellent information from the NEC why this wasn't legal, and I agreed with the opinions. Anyway, this inspector passed it without question.
That doesn't make it right, just interesting.

[al hildenbrand]

The GFCI tester, when engaged, inserts a high resistance between the hot and the equipment ground. The resistance is sized for a 5 milliamp current. If the switch one presses on the tester makes a poor contact, or if the internal path in the tester breaks, the resistance will be higher, and, therefore, the current will be lower.

As with virtually all tools, one gets what one pays for.

[mdshunk]

The GFCI tester, when engaged, inserts a high resistance between the hot and the equipment ground. The resistance is sized for a 5 milliamp current.
Is it supposed to be 5ma? I polled most of mine, and they were all either 7 or 8ma.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/mdshunk/gfcitotalleakage.jpg

[don_resqcapt19]

Even the test circuit resistor in the GFCI is sized for 8 mA at 120 volts.

[jaylectricity]

At my last minute code refresher course the instructors stressed that the GFCI test button on the device itself was sufficient. I thought it kind of strange to just trust the button but how different is that than trusting the button on your 3-light tester?

[tallguy]

At my last minute code refresher course the instructors stressed that the GFCI test button on the device itself was sufficient. I thought it kind of strange to just trust the button but how different is that than trusting the button on your 3-light tester?

Never thought of it before, but what the instructors say makes sense... Presumably the test button on the GFCI works with the same principle as the 3-prong tester. To do otherwise -- i.e. opening the circuit directly -- would make it worthless as an indicator of the proper functioning of the device. How else could it pass through UL?

[LarryFine]

At my last minute code refresher course the instructors stressed that the GFCI test button on the device itself was sufficient.True enough, but not all GFCI-protected receptacles are themselves GFCI receptacles. It can take a long time to test which receptacles are de-energized after tripping the GFCI device.

[tallguy]

True enough, but not all GFCI-protected receptacles are themselves GFCI receptacles. It can take a long time to test which receptacles are de-energized after tripping the GFCI device.

I was going to ask about that actually... I always take the tester to the end of the run and check that last receptacle in order to be sure the GFCI is working from there too. Can't imagine what could go wrong down there unless I pigtailed instead of going off the load on the GFCI! But, I do it anyway...

Anyone else do the same, or know of inspectors who do so?

[mdshunk]

Anyone else do the same, or know of inspectors who do so?
Are you asking if anyone else checks their completed work? Darned right, I do.

[tallguy]

Are you asking if anyone else checks their completed work? Darned right, I do.

I guess that particular item (downstream receptacles) I can't imagine how one could screw it up, assuming the GFCI itself tests out OK.

Then again, I switched up the grounded/neutrals (ya know, the white ones:grin:) between a GFCI CB and another circuit once. A haste makes waste sort of thing -- must not have traced through the thicket in the panel properly.

Anyway... I hadn't bothered to check with the 3-prong until about 15 minutes before the inspector was due... mild panic... luckily he was (uncharacteristically) 5 minutes late and all was well by the time he got there.

[LarryFine]

I was going to ask about that actually... I always take the tester to the end of the run and check that last receptacle in order to be sure the GFCI is working from there too. Can't imagine what could go wrong down there unless I pigtailed instead of going off the load on the GFCI! But, I do it anyway...
I guess that particular item (downstream receptacles) I can't imagine how one could screw it up, assuming the GFCI itself tests out OK.

This is all okay if you know which receptacles are on which GFCI devices. We don't always do all of the rough and trim work on a job.

In any case, the inspector should check each and every receptacle that requires GFCI protection, resetting the device between tests.

[tallguy]

In any case, the inspector should check each and every receptacle that requires GFCI protection, resetting the device between tests.

That's what I do as well... each receptacle, not each yoke.

[ptonsparky]

If you really want to know at what level your GFCI is tripping try using a DVMM with a min/max and ma range. Make sure you have a fused meter. Check your device for proper polarity. Test between the neutral, grounded conductor, and the equipment ground. Your GFCI will trip and the meter will indicate the peak current.

[cschmid]

I bought one of these and am very happy with it. Mine is older than the ones pictured on the link, yet very functional.

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/test_measurement/circuit_tracers_analyzers/suretest_circuit_analyzers.jsp

[iwire]

I bought one of these and am very happy with it.

It's interesting to look at the listed features.

Features
Arc Fault Tester
Tests AFCIs for proper operation
Tests for shared neutrals
High accuracies
Measures voltage drop under full load (12A, 15A, 20A load tests)
True RMS
Line Voltage
Peak Voltage
Frequency
Ground to neutral voltage
Ground Impedance
Hot and neutral conductor impedances
Identifies proper wiring in 3-wire receptacles
Identifies false (bootleg) grounds
Tests GFCIs and EPDs for proper operation
Conducts testing without disturbing sensitive loads
Verified isolated grounds (with 61-176 adapter)


According to both UL and NEMA there is no such device as a AFCI "Tester" there are AFCI indicators which really indicate nothing.

An AFCI indicator might not trip the AFCI and the AFCI may well still be good (well, at least as good as it can be)

[mdshunk]

I have mixed opinions on the Sure Test. I often see results from certain Sure Test checks on home inspection reports where no real remedial action is necessary on my part. On the other hand, it is a neat gadget, and I can't resist gadgets.

[cadpoint]

You mean your really Mister Gadget... :roll:

Darn it Mark, I beat your Wife has trouble buying you tools for Christmas...

[iwire]

On the other hand, it is a neat gadget,

How can you argue with that.

That is the only real reason I have thought of getting one.

I will tell you Marc, you have convinced me to get a basic Mega meter for the truck......I just want the company to pay for it. 8-)

[mdshunk]

I will tell you Marc, you have convinced me to get a basic Mega meter for the truck......I just want the company to pay for it. 8-)
The megger is one of those tools that I wonder now how I ever lived without. Even a basic 100-200 dollar model is all you need on a service truck most of the time. I'm still finding uses for it, and it has helped me out of more jams than I can recount. It's certanily a time-saver.

The latest gadget that might be the next "how did I do without it" tool is the DLRO. That one's a lot pricier, but I've used it to narrow down many problems in this past year. Maybe a year or two from now, I'll be extoling the virtues of a DLRO on every service truck too? It's helpful to pin down marginal contactor contacts, worn disconects, loose breaker terminations, trouble inside a molded case (or any case) circuit breaker, and probably lots of things I havn't even thought of yet.

[cschmid]

LOL I told you mine is a lot older than that one. I do not have a lot of those features. I also like gadgets but I find some not so good. I have a friend who is a salesmen and he brings gadgets by just so I can check them out for him. my meg ohm meter died couple weeks ago, oops there goes few hundred more. price of repair is 90% of new one.