Romex colors - aesthetics

[tallguy]

What do others do when faced with installing NM in an exposed residential environment (rustic, no hollow walls) from an aesthetic standpoint?

White for 14ga. looks just fine, yellow 12ga. is a bit jarring, but orange 10ga. is down right hideous.

Painting over it (not sure if there is an NEC prohibition against this) doesn't work particularly well as latex wall paint is designed for porous surfaces. SimPull seems even worse in this regard.

EMT and WireMold are cost prohibitive (no comments from the ChiTown and SF peanut gallery please ;) ).

I often rely on old white salvaged copper from other jobs, but that typically only works for short runs.

Other ideas out there?

[Dennis Alwon]

Other ideas out there?

Live with it. If the homeowners wants it to look good they can cover it up. My job is to make it as asthetically pleasing as I can. Square off the wires and make a neat installation and the rest is an issue they must deal with.

Don't forget the blue cat 5 cable also--- I know some are white, etc.....

[480sparky]

Through in black & white RG-6s as well.

So how do you get all this exposed NM in a dwelling past your inspector?

[Dennis Alwon]

Through in black & white RG-6s as well.

So how do you get all this exposed NM in a dwelling past your inspector?

Try Art 334.10(A)

art. 334.10 (A) Type NM shall be permitted as follows:
1) For both concealed and exposed work in normally dry, location....

[peter d]

Just wire everything with #14. Or have Southwire do a special run of white 12/2 NMB. ;)


Other than that, I can't think of any other solution than paint.

[celtic]

What do others do when faced with installing NM in an exposed residential environment (rustic, no hollow walls) from an aesthetic standpoint?



That would be, by definition, an oxymoron. :D

[tallguy]

Try Art 334.10(A)

Yeah... what he said.:smile:

Funny though, I was about to explain how the AHJ in this particular jurisdiction makes allowances for the traditional construction of these homes, blah blah blah...

If someone put exposed NM into a tract home for instance (suspend disbelief for a moment, and assume that all other parties don't care), the AHJ would have a bird... it would look so out of place and unprofessional... but what would the violation be??

[Dennis Alwon]

If someone put exposed NM into a tract home for instance (suspend disbelief for a moment, and assume that all other parties don't care), the AHJ would have a bird... it would look so out of place and unprofessional... but what would the violation be??

We do it all the time in unfinished garages.

[tallguy]

That would be, by definition, an oxymoron. :D

which part? Having an asethetic standpoint in that environment??

If it were up me I'd just say.... "Listen, people got along for thousands of years without electricity..."

[tallguy]

We do it all the time in unfinished garages.

Of course... But I'm talking about the living room, bedrooms, etc.

[Dennis Alwon]

Of course... But I'm talking about the living room, bedrooms, etc.

Yikes-- I would never exposed it there. You definitely would have to protect it from damage. I would sleeve it in pvc or something. Exposed would be very Antoni Gaudi.

[stickboy1375]

So how do you get all this exposed NM in a dwelling past your inspector?


What do you mean? Since when can't NM be exposed?

[satcom]

We do it all the time in unfinished garages.

We have a few townships here, that will not allow NM surface run in garages.

[tallguy]

Yikes-- I would never exposed it there.

Neither would I, except in a situation without hollow walls (other than adobe). The only other options would be EMT and WireMold.

You definitely would have to protect it from damage. I would sleeve it in pvc or something. Exposed would be very Antoni Gaudi.

As I read 334.15(b), you would be right... but that would also mean that ALL exposed NM would be subject to 334.15(b). That can't be right. :mad:

The exception for 300.11(a) doesn't seem to apply...

[stickboy1375]

Neither would I, except in a situation without hollow walls (other than adobe). The only other options would be EMT and WireMold.



As I read 334.15(b), you would be right... but that would also mean that ALL exposed NM would be subject to 334.15(b). That can't be right. :mad:

The exception for 300.11(a) doesn't seem to apply...



It only has to be protected from physical damage where necessary...
so I don't see how ALL exposed NM would be subject to 334.15(b)

[tallguy]

It only has to be protected from physical damage where necessary...
so I don't see how ALL exposed NM would be subject to 334.15(b)

I read it over and over and still missed "where necessary":smile:

Is there any NEC guidance on what "where necessary" actually means? While 300.4 provides the usual examples that we are all familiar with, I don't think that is the intent of the phrase in 334.15(b)

FWIW -- I would agree with the townships in NJ who prohibit exposed NM in garages (unfinished should be beside the point). If ever there is a location subject to physical damage from random carelessness, this is it!!

[Dennis Alwon]

FWIW- If I do a garage that is not sheetrocked (it's been years since I have) I run parallel with the studs. I see no problem with that.

[stickboy1375]

I read it over and over and still missed "where necessary":smile:

Is there any NEC guidance on what "where necessary" actually means? While 300.4 provides the usual examples that we are all familiar with, I don't think that is the intent of the phrase in 334.15(b)

FWIW -- I would agree with the townships in NJ who prohibit exposed NM in garages (unfinished should be beside the point). If ever there is a location subject to physical damage from random carelessness, this is it!!


I'm using my 2002 NEC handbook so the wording may have changed, and I've yet to have had to protect NM in a garage....

[tallguy]

I'm using my 2002 NEC handbook so the wording may have changed, and I've yet to have had to protect NM in a garage....

from Carlon's "2005 National Electrical Code Changes Relevant to Carlon Products": (edited to correct Carlon misquote of NEC 2005)

334.15(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, or other approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor.

Where Type NMC cable is installed in shallow chases in masonry, concrete, or adobe, the cable shall be protected against nails or screws by a steel plate at least 1.59 mm ( 1/ 16 in.) thick and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish.

What does this mean?: 315(B) was revised to remove “pipe, guard strips, listed surface metal or nonmetallic raceway” as an approved method for the protection of NM Cable in areas of physical damage.

To me, this leaves an enormous amount of latitude to the AHJ. Is this just one of those things where it's not an issue because each jurisdiction has its own norms that everyone knows to follow?

[Pierre C Belarge]

Protecting NM cable from damage is a very subjective issue. Different inspectors will see it differently.
In an average living room, what are the hazards if NM cable is installed parallel to framing members?

[tallguy]

Protecting NM cable from damage is a very subjective issue. Different inspectors will see it differently.
In an average living room, what are the hazards if NM cable is installed parallel to framing members?

Depends on the average age of the occupants of the house...:)

Seriously though... going to a light switch [from the ceiling], very little hazard. A receptacle is going to be higher (furniture and children). The 6" rule for passing through the floor is ridiculous IMHO.

[roger]

Well if you must run it exposed try to make it look like this.


http://electrical-contractor.net/forum/iw/Harold1.JPG

http://electrical-contractor.net/forum/iw/Harold4.JPG

http://electrical-contractor.net/forum/iw/Harold7.JPG

From Harold Endean posted at ECN HERE (http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/122300/page/0/fpart/1)

Roger

[iwire]

We do it all the time in unfinished garages.


That might be a problem.

[active1]

Only EMT here. Could also do wiremold but try not to.

[iaov]

Sounds like an opportunity to sell some Wiremold raceway.

[tallguy]

Sounds like an opportunity to sell some Wiremold raceway.

We're talking volunteer work here...

[celtic]

What do others do when faced with installing NM in an exposed residential environment (rustic, no hollow walls) from an aesthetic standpoint?

That would be, by definition, an oxymoron. :D
which part? Having an asethetic standpoint in that environment??



Yup.


I strongly dislike NM ... I do use it, but would rather a raceway for exposed work.