Labor to run emt.

[SmithBuilt]

How long does it take to run say 100' of 3/4" emt in hours? No wire just boxes and emt.

Does anyone use a sliding scale. ex. If you had a small job of 50' to run . The time in labor would be more than 100' run.

Or if the run is much longer less time involved. I'm using 8 hours per 100' for estimates now, but I'm starting to think that is too much time on a large job.

[barbeer]

I was always told to estimate the time I thought it would take ME to do the work and double it. Bunch of slackers!:smile:

I honestly can see some taking that long, but most I would say 6 hrs for 100'.

[iwire]

Under what conditions?

I am doing a fire alarm at a new Lowe's and the good guys are doing better then 1,200 feet in 8 hours with boxes etc. out in trusses on the open sales floor.

On the other hand, the work in the offices, and bathrooms is all ladder work, with a lot of bending and thought. 200'-300' per 8 hours in those areas was what I was seeing.

[SmithBuilt]

Under what conditions?
11' concrete ceiling, metal stud walls in place for office.

I am doing a fire alarm at a new Lowe's and the good guys are doing better then 1,200 feet in 8 hours with boxes etc. out in trusses on the open sales floor.
That's impressive. Did you bid it at that rate?

On the other hand, the work in the offices, and bathrooms is all ladder work, with a lot of bending and thought. 200'-300' per 8 hours in those areas was what I was seeing.
As Barbeer stated if I were on the job that might be close.

I was always told to estimate the time I thought it would take ME to do the work and double it. Bunch of slackers!:smile:

I honestly can see some taking that long, but most I would say 6 hrs for 100'.

We have not run a lot of emt. 6 hours might be enough.

[growler]

How long does it take to run say 100' of 3/4" emt in hours? I'm using 8 hours per 100' for estimates now, but I'm starting to think that is too much time on a large job.


If you only have one guy working and 3 or 4 guys standing around watching him then that would be about right.

A man should be able to run a least 200 ft. in 8 hours even if he has to core drill the whole distance. (Just Joking ). I'm starting to sound like the people I used to work for. :D

[iwire]

That's impressive. Did you bid it at that rate?

Sorry, I am just a Foreman I do not know how it was bid. I do know the total hours they say the job has and we are looking real good on meeting that.

Thanks for the compliment but there is almost no bending involved out on the sales floor, a 90, a kick but nothing that has to be precise at 20'-25' AFF. Keep the guys supplied with a variety of caddy clips, cordless sawzals and lifts large enough to really work off of and it can go fast.

If you don't run a lot of EMT I can give a couple of tips.

First and foremost.....HAVE PLENTY OF EVERYTHING ON HAND. nothing slows things down then being short on fittings or supports. Have supports on hand that you don't even plan on using. If your planing on using 1 hole clips still have minnis on hand.

Sometimes I over buy and simply return the leftovers but really the cost of 3/4" EMT fittings is small compared to the cost of guys leaning on a bender talking about the stock they don't have.

Second....PLAN...Dont just start running pipe without a clear (or at least fairly clear) picture in your head or if large enough job do it on paper of how it will all come together.

In my opinion nothing shows poor planing more then a lot of crossing raceways.

Don't stuff the raceways, the time that will cost you when pulling and terminating can easily surpass the cost of leaving room to begin with....besides when things get added you may have saved yourself a lot of work.

[satcom]

Bob's tips on planning and prep work are on target, also Under what conditions? will be a big factor in time.

[Cow]

Just to add to Bob's list:

Prep everything as much as possible, put connectors in your 4 sq's, get the toggles installed in the boxes(if your hanging them that way).

I like to put couplings on one end of the pipe before I take it up into the ceiling. Reminds me, I'd really like to try one of those pipe hangers that hold all your conduit off the side of your scissor lift. Looks handy!

[SmithBuilt]

I have learned my lesson on having enough on hand. Now I go overboard I have too much stock that we carry around. With the price of things I will have to start returning things.

I still have a lot to learn about planning. The engineer has drawn 40- 3/4"emt runs on this job. It's going to take some real planning, and I'm slow at it.

I learned a hard lesson on stuffing raceways.

Thanks for the info. Even with all this info it's still hard to estimate varying conditions. I'm going to cover myself and forget I even bid it till they call. If they call.

Tim

[brantmacga]

5-6 hrs max. should be able to do it in 4.5.

[macmikeman]

Like they said, conditions, conditions. I do alot of work in occupied offices. Running emt above ceilings where there are stuffed cubicles below, desks, chairs, file cabinets, boxes of junk, and of course people working in the way, etc. That is where the bending is me, cause I got to reach way over something cause I can't get the ladder in any closer. On those type of jobs - 8 hrs for a hundred foot run with wire run inside of it, and setup,breakdown, and cleanup, might not be too far off.

[emahler]

brant..it that with set screw, compression or welded couplings? :)

[HighWirey]

NECA allows:

3/4 EMT, 5.0, 6.2 and 7.5 hours per hundred.
4" square boxes, 30, 35 and 40 hours per hundred.
4" square covers, 8, 9 and 10 hours per hundred.
NECAs figures were always a little heavy.

The 3 figures are Normal, Difficult and Very Difficult.

You did not ask about the couplings, connectors or fasteners . . .

Iwire is doing very well working at 20+ feet AFF.

Best Wishes

[ITO]

Under what conditions?

I am doing a fire alarm at a new Lowe's and the good guys are doing better then 1,200 feet in 8 hours with boxes etc. out in trusses on the open sales floor.

On the other hand, the work in the offices, and bathrooms is all ladder work, with a lot of bending and thought. 200'-300' per 8 hours in those areas was what I was seeing.

Labor units for estimating take this into consideration and use an average. Its when your labor does not make the averages that you start taking a hard look at he conditions and your labor, for a reason that your expected productivity is not where is should be.

[satcom]

Like they said, conditions, conditions. I do alot of work in occupied offices. Running emt above ceilings where there are stuffed cubicles below, desks, chairs, file cabinets, boxes of junk, and of course people working in the way, etc. That is where the bending is me, cause I got to reach way over something cause I can't get the ladder in any closer. On those type of jobs - 8 hrs for a hundred foot run with wire run inside of it, and setup,breakdown, and cleanup, might not be too far off.

On office fit up's with cubes and ceilings full of existing poor runs, the production times will increase, way up there.

[SmithBuilt]

Steve where did you get those figures?
I can see how they would be helpful for other tasks.





You did not ask about the couplings, connectors or fasteners . . .


Compression fittings, shoot in anchors (all concrete), all thread, and minis. Or strut for part of the runs.

[guschash]

Two men 130' , one saddle, 3- 90 , 4 boxs, nice off-set coming out LP , working off two 10 foot ladders. About 3 hours that includes getting everything to the second floor.

[ItsHot]

Smurf Pipe It!!!

[peter d]

I am doing a fire alarm at a new Lowe's and the good guys are doing better then 1,200 feet in 8 hours with boxes etc. out in trusses on the open sales floor.


Just curious, is the fire alarm required to be in EMT by local code or Lowe's spec? I have seen numerous Lowes that were wired with red low-voltage cable for the fire alarm in free air, so I'm curious why you have to run EMT.

[iwire]

so I'm curious why you have to run EMT.

They told me to. :D

The entire job is pipe other then re-loc for the lighting fixtures.

It appears to be a Lowe's choice, security in pipe as well.

[peter d]

They told me to. :D



Well, I guess that settles it then. :)

[boboelectric]

do you just buy your material there?

[iwire]

do you just buy your material there?

Well yes and no.

We supply all the material which we shop out to our suppliers, except the wire. Lowe's purchases the wire and ships it to us.

Keep in mind the store at this point is just a big empty box.

[growler]

Lowe's purchases the wire and ships it to us.


And why not? With the sure volume of wire purchased by either Lowe's or Home Depot they can probably get and even better deal than most electrical suppliers. :grin:

It would be interesting to see what a spool of #12 THHN solid cost straight from the manufacturer when you can buy about a billion spools a year.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

And why not? With the sure volume of wire purchased by either Lowe's or Home Depot they can probably get and even better deal than most electrical suppliers. :grin:

It would be interesting to see what a spool of #12 THHN solid cost straight from the manufacturer when you can buy about a billion spools a year.

Everything is negotiable, but don't buy too much into this retail marketing concept that "we buy in bulk, and pass the savings on to you" bit.

One unit special ordered would cost a premium. 1000 units every month would get a good discount. After a point, no manufacturer can continue discounting wholesale prices no matter how many are ordered.

Manufacturers of quality-well known products are regularily "pressed" to supply discounters with lower-quality, "made specifically for the discount market" variations of their normal merchandise. Notice most power tools sold through HD and LOWES have a unique serial number? The Milwakee sawzall purchased at HD is NOT the same one you'd get from a tool supplier, even though the "model numbers" are identical.

[mattsilkwood]

They told me to. :D

The entire job is pipe other then re-loc for the lighting fixtures.

It appears to be a Lowe's choice, security in pipe as well.

just curious have you guys had any trouble with the reloc cables?
i was on a lowes last year and you had to watch which cables you used they were different for regular and emergency circiuts. also on their lights we had about 50 that had bad connections on the ballasts.

[mattsilkwood]

also all the fire and security was in cable tray

[HighWirey]

Compression fittings, shoot in anchors (all concrete), all thread, and minis. Or strut for part of the runs.

The plot thickens . . .

Perhaps you would benefit from Mr. Holt's Estimating Course, before you get in too deep. I know I did.

Source for a NECA Labor Unit Estimating Manual:
http://www.necanet.org/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=search_results_sites&index_number=4090-07S&site=mei

RS Means, another estimating manual, can be had from The Construction BookStore in Gainsville, FL USA
http://www.constructionbook.com/xq/ASP/qx/default2.htm?CMP=KNC-Google

Best Wishes

[growler]

The Milwakee sawzall purchased at HD is NOT the same one you'd get from a tool supplier, even though the "model numbers" are identical.


Yes, this is true, I have herd that real Milwaukee tools are made by elves. :rolleyes:

[Rockyd]

Growler,

Tell Santa that I'd be willing to accept J.I.T. delivery on the 24th!

[iwire]

The Milwakee sawzall purchased at HD is NOT the same one you'd get from a tool supplier, even though the "model numbers" are identical.

As a side note Milwaukee was bought out by Ryobi a while ago. You all can make your own assumptions what that will do to Milwaukee's quality.

Edit; To be accurate the Japanese company that owns AEG, Ryobi, Stiletto, Homelite, Hoover, Dirt Devil, and Vax also bought out Milwaukee.

[peter d]

Edit; To be accurate the Japanese company that owns AEG, Ryobi, Stiletto, Homelite, Hoover, Dirt Devil, and Vax also bought out Milwaukee.

Minor correction: The company, Techtronic Industries, is based in Hong Kong with extensive manufacturing in (surprise!) mainland China.

http://www.ttigroup.com/general/home.php

[buddyboxtoolcase]

How long does it take to run say 100' of 3/4" emt in hours? No wire just boxes and emt.

Does anyone use a sliding scale. ex. If you had a small job of 50' to run . The time in labor would be more than 100' run.

Or if the run is much longer less time involved. I'm using 8 hours per 100' for estimates now, but I'm starting to think that is too much time on a large job.
I use labor and material in a wall opening dollar value per unit. 100 to 200 feet of small conduit would be a good estimate on 8 hours. obiously larger jobs have room for a lower value per opening. I figure on 100.00 per opening on nm cable jobs with an addition for special circuits or service gear. On commercial I figure on 150 to 200 per opening plus fixtures and load centers. On larger jobs of the emt 2 hours per opening with materials at 25 to 30 % comes up to 250 per opening and add the fixture lot package quote from supplier and switch gear and any special equipment added.

[buddyboxtoolcase]

100 feet per 8 hours is a safe amount. I myself have installed with boxes in hotel type construction, wood stud, as much as 250 to 300 per 8 hours but I was really trying hard. I mean one room at a time outlets, lighting, fire alarm and tel. and data, but I would expect at least 8 to 10 boxes per 8 hours completely piped as an average about 150 feet of emt.

[hardworkingstiff]

I haven't run much EMT is quite a while. I seems to me that estimating 100' in a 6-8 hour day will keep you from getting a job. Is that estimate per crew or per man (ie: a 2-man crew will do 100-200' or 200-400')?

Even in a crowded office building, I would think a well organized 2-man crew could run 300-400' in an 8-hour day.

If you are allowing 8-hours for 100' of EMT, how much time do you allow for 100' of rigid?

[Rockyd]

100' of EMT vs 100' of GRC...


Small rigid is fairly flexible (1" and smaller), and if a person is experienced in rigid, it shouldn't be signicantly different if a person plays smart.

One understands how much GRC another person has ran, when he knows he doesn't probably need a more than a few eriksons (three piece couplings). to do a significant amount of work.

Some of the fittings like the Arllington Anybody (http://www.aifittings.com/whnew85.htm) may seem time consuming, but may be something to consider having in the mix for effiency, vs a std fitting.

Rigid doesn't always need a "pretty' bender either, a hickey works well. For that matter I've used lots of diffrent things for bending GRC, such as the bolts (over an 1 1/2" in diameter normally won't scuff the pipe either) around a tank work good. If it's U/G, a backhoe and a chain work surprisingly well.