Just for fun(bid)....#4

[celtic]

Let's "play the game" two ways:
How long?
How much?

The given task is:
Lighting in a hair salon....
2x4 lay-in fixtures...
relamp/reballast or replace...PER fixture...
12' high ceilings...
possibly "off hours"(when salon is CLOSED).
F32T8 in all scenarios


This is what I got:
Relamp/reballast: 1.5 hrs or $185.71
Replace: 1.4 hrs or $180.44

[LarryFine]

2x4 lay-in fixtures...
Quantity? :confused:

[chris kennedy]

Replace: 1.4 hrs or $180.44

This includes new fixture with acceptable support and permit/inspection?

[brantmacga]

This includes new fixture with acceptable support and permit/inspection?


puhlease! <<<< :D

[emahler]

you can't charge that much...:D

[brantmacga]

i've got one similar coming up in a couple of weeks except in a carpet store. replacing 17 2x2 lay-ins, don't know for sure without looking it up but i think i priced that one @ $3k. they were these. http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/PSG/LL/Fluorescent%20Lighting/Recessed/Architectural%20Lighting/AV.pdf

i hit a curb while taking them from the supply house to my shop and watched the pallets fly about 12" off the trailer. i have a feeling i'll be replacing some bulbs when i open them up. i hope they were packed well.

[satcom]

you can't charge that much...:D


No one thought you could charge for water, or charge 6 times what it cost to provide wireless phone service, but people stand in line to pay the over priced amounts.

[celtic]

Quantity? :confused:

Irrelevant ....for starters ~ I don't count 'em :smile:, for desert it's "typical"...nothing extreme.


This includes new fixture with acceptable support and permit/inspection?

Sure...couple of self-tappers...permit cost NOT included.

you can't charge that much...:D
....translate the $'s into pies...how many pies?

[brantmacga]

nice one satcom! but i can kind of understand people who get water from a municipal system buying their water. that stuff tastes like crap. i've got another one; cable tv. in my neighboring towns, cable starts around $50 a month and for any kind of upgrade your looking at almost $80 mo. The city i live in has their own cable system. basic is $5.99/mo., mid-level is $15.99/mo., and premium (hbo, cinemax, starz, etc.. ) is $25.99/mo. We also have one of the big cable carriers here too. next door where they charge $50-$100/mo, here they charge the same rates as the city utility. why would they continue if they were losing money? we also have wireless high speed internet and its $25/mo.

[brantmacga]

....translate the $'s into pies...how many pies?

yummy. :D

[Oakey]

A famous forum member once told me here not to long ago:

" I think your $150/fixture is low...I'm at $185 per fixture - no wire, supports, switching, etc."

Since I made money on that advice I'm sticking to that figure http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif

[In Charge Electric ,INC.]

Is that parabolic? Do the fixtures have to be plenum rated if need to be replaced

[celtic]

Is that parabolic? Do the fixtures have to be plenum rated if need to be replaced

Nope and nope.

[celtic]

A famous forum member once told me here not to long ago:

" I think your $150/fixture is low...I'm at $185 per fixture - no wire, supports, switching, etc."

Since I made money on that advice I'm sticking to that figure http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif


I wonder who that was?:confused:


Looking at MY " Replace: 1.4 hrs or $180.44 " ...I'm realizing it's a REPLACEMENT and therefore time must be allocated towards removal and disposal of old fixture......
The plot thickens:D

[In Charge Electric ,INC.]

On the second One I would charge about $250 just for the fact you have to demo and dispose of the lights and who knows how much crap is in the ceiling!. ANOTHER BIG THING is how are the lights strapped? If theres no tie wire hanging then you would have to add that as well! Those are my thoughts.

[JES2727]

Celtic,
I would be very interested to see how you arrived at your figures, especially the reballast/relamp. A ballast cost about $15, the lamps are $3 each, and it takes about 15 minutes to complete the job per fixture. I think I would have a hard time selling this for $185. I find it perplexing that your price to reballast & relamp is higher than your price for complete replacement of fixture.

[Kessler4130]

nice one satcom! but i can kind of understand people who get water from a municipal system buying their water. that stuff tastes like crap. i've got another one; cable tv. in my neighboring towns, cable starts around $50 a month and for any kind of upgrade your looking at almost $80 mo. The city i live in has their own cable system. basic is $5.99/mo., mid-level is $15.99/mo., and premium (hbo, cinemax, starz, etc.. ) is $25.99/mo. We also have one of the big cable carriers here too. next door where they charge $50-$100/mo, here they charge the same rates as the city utility. why would they continue if they were losing money? we also have wireless high speed internet and its $25/mo.

I pay 159.00 a month for my cable and it seems all the good shows are on the channels I don't even freaking have, cinemax, starz etc. But hey what can ya do, verizon fios is not available where I am at the moment and comcast bought the only other provider in the area.

[emahler]

Celtic,
I would be very interested to see how you arrived at your figures, especially the reballast/relamp. A ballast cost about $15, the lamps are $3 each, and it takes about 15 minutes to complete the job per fixture. I think I would have a hard time selling this for $185. I find it perplexing that your price to reballast & relamp is higher than your price for complete replacement of fixture.

take into account the following:

estimating
ordering
stocking
transporting
setup
actually removing existing ballast and lamps
actually installing new ballast and lamps
cleanup
storing lamps for recycling (you can't just throw them out anymore)
getting rid of the ballasts
etc

you are well over 15 mins/fixture in total time once you account for all of it.

[john_axelson]

i've got one similar coming up in a couple of weeks except in a carpet store. replacing 17 2x2 lay-ins, don't know for sure without looking it up but i think i priced that one @ $3k. they were these. http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/PSG/LL/Fluorescent%20Lighting/Recessed/Architectural%20Lighting/AV.pdf.


$3000 for 17 of those? Didn't the fixtures alone cost you $3,000? Around here those fixtures are selling for around $150 each, plus tax comes out to around $2700, so $300 to install 17 fixtures, man you are fast!

[celtic]

Celtic,
I would be very interested to see how you arrived at your figures, especially the reballast/relamp. A ballast cost about $15, the lamps are $3 each, and it takes about 15 minutes to complete the job per fixture. I think I would have a hard time selling this for $185.
15 minutes to swap out a ballast IF:
- The ladder is already set up at the fixture
- The material is at that ladder
- etc etc etc..
(Basically, see mahlere's comments ~ #18 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=740621&postcount=18))



I find it perplexing that your price to reballast & relamp is higher than your price for complete replacement of fixture.
That number was/is being revised:


Looking at MY " Replace: 1.4 hrs or $180.44 " ...I'm realizing it's a REPLACEMENT and therefore time must be allocated towards removal and disposal of old fixture......
The plot thickens:D #14 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=740527&postcount=14)

[satcom]

15 minutes to swap out a ballast IF:
- The ladder is already set up at the fixture
- The material is at that ladder
- etc etc etc..
(Basically, see mahlere's comments ~ #18 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=740621&postcount=18))



That number was/is being revised:

#14 (http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=740527&postcount=14)


I thought the $180 was on the low side, I guess there are contractors out there giving away their work.

[brantmacga]

$3000 for 17 of those? Didn't the fixtures alone cost you $3,000? Around here those fixtures are selling for around $150 each, plus tax comes out to around $2700, so $300 to install 17 fixtures, man you are fast!


no; with tax they cost me $90 x 17 is $1530. i sold them for $2300 and charged $700 for labor.

[JES2727]

take into account the following:

estimating
ordering
stocking
transporting
setup
actually removing existing ballast and lamps
actually installing new ballast and lamps
cleanup
storing lamps for recycling (you can't just throw them out anymore)
getting rid of the ballasts
etc

you are well over 15 mins/fixture in total time once you account for all of it.
I thought the $180 was on the low side, I guess there are contractors out there giving away their work.

I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I guess I need help understanding this. Once my ladder is off the truck and set up in the store, then it's just a matter of moving 6 feet or so from one fixture to the next. Then I walk back and move my rolling cart to the fixture also. The cart is all loaded up with ballasts and wirenuts, and a case of lamps. So the part about "assuming the ladder is at that fixture and the material is at that ladder" doesn't really seem (to me) to use an awful lot of time. I can still do it in 15 minutes, and under ideal conditions I can do it quicker. I realize a hair salon is far from ideal conditions. There may be some manuvering involved to get the ladder in the right spot. So let's say I can average 3 ballasts per hour. That's 18 per day, plus an hour for set up and and an hour for clean up, even though it doesn't take an hour for set up or clean up. At $185 per fixture that's $3330. Minus my $30 material cost per fixture ($540) and I'm making $2790 for a days work before I cover the rest of my job related costs : A ten minute phone call the day before to the supply house to order the lamps and ballasts for delivery directly to the job sight. Discard the old ballasts in the dumpster behind the store. And the usual burdens : estimating time, insurances, taxes, etc. The only unknown for me is discarding the used lamps. I don't know that cost. But if I'm making $2000 to change ballasts for a day, I'd say that's pretty damn good. If I'm making less than that, I'd hardly say I was giving my work away.

[cschmid]

I do lights all the time no way to do ballast conversion properly when converting from t12 to t8 in fifteen minutes you need to rewire the lamp holders to correct configuration. It is against the law to dump ballasts in the dumpster..plus you have lamp disposal due to the mercury..Lets see it is 1/2 hr per fixture minimum plus materials..Celtic did not give all the info..so after hours means like 9 pm so extra labor rate applies for over 8 in a day..Give discount to do in morning early..So I guess break even at 80 dollars each plus 10% = 88 dollars to rebuild each lite unless I have to do it after 9pm than labor rate would have to be time in half so it would be 100.00 per fixture.. 1/2 hr for new fixture and price of fixture..plus disposal fees and labor..now just to know how many fixtures and the time of day.. lets see beauty salon = pretty ladies..hmm wonder how much trouble man get into there..