23 grand feels like a waste

[JONATHAN20]

i been out of school for a while (23000 on the electrical program) ive sent out more applications then i have fingers and toes and not a single response. If anyone on this website is stationed in connecticut help me out please. Just remember 100' roll of mc 60 bucks, licensed mechanic running pipe 30$ an hour getting an apprentice to do mechanics work for half the price............priceless. come on fellas

[jrannis]

i been out of school for a while (23000 on the electrical program) ive sent out more applications then i have fingers and toes and not a single response. If anyone on this website is stationed in connecticut help me out please. Just remember 100' roll of mc 60 bucks, licensed mechanic running pipe 30$ an hour getting an apprentice to do mechanics work for half the price............priceless. come on fellas

I dont understand how you could spend $23,000 out of your pocket for an electrical program. Union programs are free for the student and require OJT, other programs are funded by the State. Is this one of those matchbook cover programs? Do you have any field experience? Have you tried working for an electrical supply house?

[brian john]

Even caveman realized when the herd moved on they had to move with the herd. No work around you? spread out. In Washington DC we are dying for "GOOD APPRENTCIES" and schooling would be free either merit shop or union.

[khixxx]

I dont understand how you could spend $23,000 out of your pocket for an electrical program. Union programs are free for the student and require OJT, other programs are funded by the State. Is this one of those matchbook cover programs? Do you have any field experience? Have you tried working for an electrical supply house?

FREE = exactly what it is worth.

When your paying with your money you tend to put forth more of an effort.

Try www.indeed.com for employment search. I wouldn't work in DC for $50/hr. Wait I am :(

[220/221]

23K and they didn't teach you how to get a job?

You have to actually GO and apply for jobs. Your resume should be delivered in person. You naad to TALK with someone, face to face. Go early, go often.

Unless someone has a big job they are gearing up for, your resume is in a file along with everyone else's. You need to encourage them to pull it out and take a look.


FREE = exactly what it is worth.

I'm gonna have to disagree. There is a lot of free advice here and a lot of it is VERY valuable.

[don_resqcapt19]

When your paying with your money you tend to put forth more of an effort.
But also worthless if not accepted by the potential employeers.
Don

[mdshunk]

23K for an electrician's school? Whereabouts is this?

[Greg Swartz]

Jonathan,

I need a good apprentice I can teach the ropes to.
I just fired my last guy. I am sick and tired of guys showing up late, and guys who could care less about their job.

I try to explain to my guys that I need to make money on the job. This is something they do no understand, and do not care about. I need them to care about it. I tell them if I don't make money on a job, I won't have a business, and they won't have a job.

So, I am in Colorado... and I have an availability.

Greg

[nakulak]

23K and they didn't teach you how to get a job?

You have to actually GO and apply for jobs. Your resume should be delivered in person. You naad to TALK with someone, face to face. Go early, go often.

Unless someone has a big job they are gearing up for, your resume is in a file along with everyone else's. You need to encourage them to pull it out and take a look.




I'm gonna have to disagree. There is a lot of free advice here and a lot of it is VERY valuable.

very good advice. start showing up to jobsites at 6 am (tools in hand) until you find work - go to the union hall, visit employer's locations, call every contractor you can find in the phone book, go to the supply house, you will find work. go to the county building and ask the electrical inspectors if they know anyone looking for help, go to any trade school or temp outfit and see if they know of anyone looking.

[satcom]

The entire electrical class, from the county vocational school, all had jobs before they even completed the program, and these are public schools, no money needed but lunch money.

[BryanMD]

A couple lessons I've learned:

1) An ad in the paper for help is an admission of guilt by a company.

Guilty of not being able to grow their own mechanics...
or guilty of not being approached by good prospects based on word of mouth.

2) Don't waste your time looking for a job from anyone who you don't KNOW already has a need for help.

Several years ago I was on an extended road trip all around the US interrupted by short term gigs to replenish my wallet (I'm not independently wealthy). During this exercise I learned a few things about finding potential employers in a town where I had zero reference to know who was who.
(And I learned how to interview with them.)

I'd arrive in that town on a Sunday afternoon and get a copy of the Yellow pages but I didn't look for the EC's... I looked for the supply houses. After mapping out their locations I'd plan a route to be able to hit 2 or 3 way, way bright and early on Monday morning.

Show up at the supply houses (dressed to go to work that *minute*) and take a minute to look around (there is often a bulletin board there with open jobs) see if their stock (and tools) represent the sort of work you prefer to do (eg rexel/romex vs graybar/rigid) and listen to the counter droids talk to a few customers to gauge which one might actually have a clue about life.

And then look ask politely:
which contractors in town are busy...
who has been buying a lot of stuff in a disordered way...
who has actually complained about needing help...

Assuming you get a positive reception try to find out who at the EC is the one who actually makes the hiring decisions (no one else counts!).

One of the EC's in there to buy material may even have a job for you.

Take careful notes, listen!, get the counter guys name, etc.
Then make the call(s).

Yes sir! I'm right here at XYZ Supply and Dave said I should talk to you. I understand you could use some help and frankly sir, I could use the job.

When he asks you a question answer accurately, never overstate your experience, and by all that is holy NEVER lie to the man.

If you don't have experience in X (but have the right attitude) he'll most likely give you a shot.


At some point the money question will come up.
(If he has any sense he won't ask until he sees you in person)

How much pay do you want?

In good times (with experience):
Well sir, of course I want as much as I can get. ;)

If things are tight (or little experience) then offer:
I'm willing to let you decide that after we've worked together for a day.


I might have had to repeat the supply house routine a couple times and the intro phone calls too but more often than not I'd have a job by noon.

Good Luck.

[crossman]

FREE = exactly what it is worth.

When your paying with your money you tend to put forth more of an effort.


Oh man, where to start?

There are many "for profit" "educational" institutions out there who charge $20,000+ for a "certificate" in "electronics" or "electrical construction." Just stay up late at night and watch the commecricals on TV. These programs have no OJT, have no employer particiaption, and no job referral system in place after the student graduates.

The DOL registered apprenticeship programs, both union and open shop, provide at least 4 years of schooling plus 4 years of on-the-job training. These apprentices are actually working in the trade and going to school together. The employers have built these programs up and employ the apprentices. The cost to the student is minimal because 1. The programs are non-profit and registered as such. 2. the program sponsors pay the bills. So, in this case, FREE = EXTREMELY VALUABLE.

If a person wants to be an electrician, the DOL programs are 100 times better than some for-profit technical school who will charge a person $23000 for 2 years of classroom study.

Some of the community colleges also have "electrical" programs, but it has no OJT with it. The cost is significantly lower than the for-profit technical schools, but still, without the OJT, are they really teaching the student to be an electrician?

And a final thought on "FREE = exactly what it is worth"

Last year's valedictorian at the local high school got a 4 year free ride to Rice University. I am willing to bet that this person is going to get one darn superb education out of it.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

FREE = exactly what it is worth.

When your paying with your money you tend to put forth more of an effort.

Try www.indeed.com for employment search. I wouldn't work in DC for $50/hr. Wait I am :(

Sorry, but the OP was probably hukstered into shelling out his own money for what will probably turn out to be a worthless certificate. "Lifetime job placement" probably amounts to mailing a list of licensed electricians to his address on a semi-annual basis that the "school" has absolutely no relationship with. Right now, there are ads all over the cheaper cable channels advertizing schooling for "EST's" Electronic Service Technicians. "Wherever you see a home theater being installed... a cable line, a telephone line, an alarm system..."

A fool and his money are soon parted.

A union apprenticeship, and I would imagine a bona-fide merit shop apprenticeship isn't "free." But it IS free for the applicant. It's the participating contractors that actually pay for the training program.

As such, these kinds of legitimate programs have the ability to do the one thing the huckster's don't - reject applicants who don't meet a qualification standard. The first thing tested is the ability to learn and follow simple instructions, as unfortunately, many people with the wrong attitude or who are just plain dumb and slow seem to gravitate towards the construction industry after, usually failing at everything else.

[George Stolz]

I can't imagine paying $20,000 to train to become an electrician - I thought there was some mistake and that the OP was an EIT!

Apply, apply, apply. Move if you have to. You have a lot of catching up to do, unfortunately. http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[wireman71]

Grab the yellow pages. Start at the top. Find the addresses of every shop you can. Map them out. Drive to every shop with resume wearing work clothes. Tell them you are looking for a job. It's that simple. And ads in the paper are usually a admission of guilt that a shop sucks.

[spacebar]

http://www.porterchester.com/electrical.html

[jrannis]

FREE = exactly what it is worth.

When your paying with your money you tend to put forth more of an effort.

Try www.indeed.com for employment search. I wouldn't work in DC for $50/hr. Wait I am :(

I think you missed my point. The program is paid for my the local contractors, at no cost to the student, here in Miami the classes are during the work day and the days pay is also picked up by the contractor.

It is an expensive program, but worth every dime.

[khixxx]

I think you missed my point. The program is paid for my the local contractors, at no cost to the student, here in Miami the classes are during the work day and the days pay is also picked up by the contractor.

It is an expensive program, but worth every dime.

Jrannis, I got your point. I'm just going with my experience. I've only been in the field for 7 years. I held a journeyman's before I worked a day in the field. I was making about $5 more an hour over guys that were going to ABC classes. I spent 18 months in a state approved electrical program. I however paid $10k The state and Government paid around $8k I still had to relocate and put in about 30 hours a week in as a busboy. 5 years in the field I passed both my Masters exam and my Contractors exam. during those 5 years I spent most of my time as E&I Which I needed a degree to get that position or at least that is what they were looking for. I now have 7 years in the field. I currently work I&C at Power Generation stations. How ever my buddy went to the same school as me. He got a free ride from the state, Not sure but I think they even gave him money sense he had to relocate to go to school. I can work 4 months and make more than he does all year. I put forth more of an effort than he did. If he would have to pay and work like I did when going to school I doubt he would have taken that program. Not sure what he would be doing. He likes what he does and I like what I do. I guess it works out in the end.

Some of you guys must know something I don't. Usually when someone gets something for free they take it for granted. When its your own dime you put for more of an effort. I have went to numerous training classes on my companies dime.

[crossman]

When we say that the DOL registered programs are free, we are talking about the money (many of these programs do charge a very small "tuition" but we are talking maybe $200 for an entire year).

So money-wise, the cost is "free". But, there are other ways that these apprentices "pay". They pay be being responsible, they pay by going to work everyday, they pay by doing their homework and making the grade, they pay by applying themselves to the trade and advancing each year, they pay by following the rules and passing drug tests.

These apprentices "pay" a tremendous amount. It just isn't money they are paying.

And what if an apprentice isn't willing to "pay" what is required? He is sent down the road kicking cans, and the opportunity is given to someone else.

[Rewire]

Grab the yellow pages. Start at the top. Find the addresses of every shop you can. Map them out. Drive to every shop with resume wearing work clothes. Tell them you are looking for a job. It's that simple. And ads in the paper are usually a admission of guilt that a shop sucks.
I have ran help wanted adds in the paper several times when looking for help I never looked at it as a "bad" thing to do.

[mkgrady]

I have ran help wanted adds in the paper several times when looking for help I never looked at it as a "bad" thing to do.

That's how I got my last job and after moving into management years later I used the newspaper to hire lots of electricians. I don't get what is wrong with it.

[wireman71]

Another poster mentioned it and I've personally experienced the fact that adds are "usually" ran by companies that have a hard time getting and keeping good people. Doesn't mean that is always that way or that it's a bad way to get experience. One company takes a dookie on you, get your affidavit of experience ASAP and move on.

[j_erickson]

i been out of school for a while (23000 on the electrical program) ive sent out more applications then i have fingers and toes and not a single response. If anyone on this website is stationed in connecticut help me out please. Just remember 100' roll of mc 60 bucks, licensed mechanic running pipe 30$ an hour getting an apprentice to do mechanics work for half the price............priceless. come on fellas

I appreciate your enthusiasm. But I'd be surprised if you can do what a good Journeyman can do for half the price.:roll:

But in all seriousness, good luck with the search.

[growler]

I'd be surprised if you can do what a good Journeyman can do for half the price.


I would be surprised if Jonathan can do half of what a good journeyman can for half the price. And that may be part of his problem finding employment. He will probably have to apply for positions that require no experience because he doesn't have any and then let his tech. school training help him to advance a little faster than those without said training.

If I were Jonathan I would try to find an industrial or commercial contractor that would give me any sort of job just to get some time on a job site. Once he gets a year of actual job site experience his previous training is going to start to look a lot better ( at least on paper ), then it will start looking more like a total of two years in the trade ( one school, one OJT). A few calluses ( from the shovel ), a good tan ( wind burn ) and a little muscle from pulling wire even changes the way a guy looks going in for a job. A set of tools and boots that are broke in and you would never know he's not a real electrician. :smile:

[j_erickson]

Well put, Dale.

[brian john]

For me with employees there is a fine line between letting me know they are qualified and willing to work hard and telling me how much they know and how great they are. I have interviewed a few KNOW IT ALLS that most likely knew quite a bit, but their over confidence came across as BS.

Let your interviewer know your wiliness and training but telling him you can do the same as a mechanic may come across as baloney.

[George Stolz]

I don't see the issue with newspapers either - I thought the sure sign of baloney was when mailers were sent out to all licensed electricians for three counties, claiming you'd make $80,000 a year doing service work. That's my test for a bad sign. :D

[jrannis]

Jrannis, I got your point. I'm just going with my experience. I've only been in the field for 7 years. I held a journeyman's before I worked a day in the field. I was making about $5 more an hour over guys that were going to ABC classes. I spent 18 months in a state approved electrical program. I however paid $10k The state and Government paid around $8k I still had to relocate and put in about 30 hours a week in as a busboy. 5 years in the field I passed both my Masters exam and my Contractors exam. during those 5 years I spent most of my time as E&I Which I needed a degree to get that position or at least that is what they were looking for. I now have 7 years in the field. I currently work I&C at Power Generation stations. How ever my buddy went to the same school as me. He got a free ride from the state, Not sure but I think they even gave him money sense he had to relocate to go to school. I can work 4 months and make more than he does all year. I put forth more of an effort than he did. If he would have to pay and work like I did when going to school I doubt he would have taken that program. Not sure what he would be doing. He likes what he does and I like what I do. I guess it works out in the end.

Some of you guys must know something I don't. Usually when someone gets something for free they take it for granted. When its your own dime you put for more of an effort. I have went to numerous training classes on my companies dime.

Im not sure what E&I or I&C is. Can you help me out with that?
Also, I do recall that apprentices have to pay for their books.
Which State did you get your electrical training?

[boboelectric]

Back in the 80's , we had an opening for a walk on electrian.This dude applied, was cool,always showed up in a suit/tie .We would give different tests to canidates , conduit bending,transformer identification,ect.This guy kept showing up to see how his prospects looked. He fit right in, A real assest to our shop.I was sorry when he moved on.He's now running a big draw bridge job in D.C.

[dSilanskas]

You paid $23,000 for an electrical program?!?!? wow I went through a vocational school it was free! Gosh $23,000 is enough for one year of college with eight classes! Sounds like you got ripped off to me wow.

[George Stolz]

Gosh $23,000 is enough for one year of college with eight classes!
You must be paying out of state tuition, and haven't shopped around at the community colleges. :D

[khixxx]

Im not sure what E&I or I&C is. Can you help me out with that?
Also, I do recall that apprentices have to pay for their books.
Which State did you get your electrical training?

www.triangle-tech.com in Dubois, PA. I then had to relocate for work, not much going on in PA. I relocated near Hagerstown, MD. I got my license in WV.

My employer had about 120 electricians, He would go up and hire 17 guys. Not all were bad not all were good. I know he still hires from there. I did an interveiw in Durham, NC even that guy hired from that school. I'm not saying that was a great school I know I got my money out of it. I heard rumors that the tuition is now around $28k I would think twice on that one. It seems most of the guys going lost their jobs from the mines or other places. Now they get a FREE education. I don't think they could charge that price if the state and federal governments were paying for it.

I think Jonathan was telling you guys, that an EC can charge full price for his work and EC only could pay him half? Not to many people have helped the lad out. He has posted before about not finding work.

E&I, I&C = A Google search :)

[jrannis]

www.triangle-tech.com in Dubois, PA. I then had to relocate for work, not much going on in PA. I relocated near Hagerstown, MD. I got my license in WV.

My employer had about 120 electricians, He would go up and hire 17 guys. Not all were bad not all were good. I know he still hires from there. I did an interveiw in Durham, NC even that guy hired from that school. I'm not saying that was a great school I know I got my money out of it. I heard rumors that the tuition is now around $28k I would think twice on that one. It seems most of the guys going lost their jobs from the mines or other places. Now they get a FREE education. I don't think they could charge that price if the state and federal governments were paying for it.

I think Jonathan was telling you guys, that an EC can charge full price for his work and EC only could pay him half? Not to many people have helped the lad out. He has posted before about not finding work.

E&I, I&C = A Google search :)

Pardon my ignorance, I didnt know things like this existed