Electrical tape: 33+ or Cheapo?

[Minuteman]

A question came up recently about electrical tape. Should 3M 33+ tape be used for everything, like pulling wire? What about grabbing a role of color phase tape to quickly make up a pull? Do you even buy 33+? Do you substitute the 3M 33+ with 3M 88, or 3M 1700? Or do you just use cheapo wrap for everything?

[electricalperson]

i usually use 3M temflex tape. cheap and does the job that the 5 dollar a roll tape can. also comes in colors

[peter d]

I worked for a large company that bought nothing but the cheapest stuff possible. You really have no choice with a large company as you can go bankrupt just buying tape. (They went bankrupt anyway, but that's another story for another day.) I got used to using the cheap stuff and now I don't buy 33 anymore.

I now buy the intermediate grade 3M "700" stuff, which is better than the 1700 but not quite as good as 33. I also keep a bunch of cheap stuff around for snaking and other "throw away" purposes.

[tom baker]

We keep our 33+ locked up.

[electricalperson]

ive had tape so cheap that it didnt even stick. it acted like it was frozen in 70 degree weather :roll:

[jamesguy10]

ive actually had cheap tape that freezes, gets hard and dosnt stick. Its cold up here:roll:

[petersonra]

when I was in china a few years ago, the electrical tape they had did not have adhesive. they would wrap and tie the ends in knots.

we left the few rolls of black tape we brought with us in the electricians hands. you woulkd have thought it was gold.

they had no wire nuts either. they stripped the wires back and tied the wires together. the knot was very tight and near impossible to open up. the mexicans did the same thing, but had tape with adhesive on it.

[George Stolz]

Your poll is tricky - I use cheapo as much as possible, but don't spend a lot of time looking for it. As a result, I wind up using a lot of phase-colored tape for pulling/pushing wire for branch circuits, but I always feel a bit guilty and try to remember to look for black tape when I'm in the right neighborhood.

[Minuteman]

George, has anyone ever griped at you for using phase tape for pulling? :grin:

[Krim]

I almost always use 3M's 33+ for just about everything, I don't like tape that comes loose or won't stick. Whenever I come across a roll that doesn't work right I pitch it, even if I could use it for less demanding circumstances such as wrapping up pull lines or as a bandage. I don't want to be bothered with wondering if I used a quality product. If that's all you have,you know it'll hold up.
Carl

[George Stolz]

George, has anyone ever griped at you for using phase tape for pulling? :grin:
Probably, but I forget. :D

[electricman2]

I use the 33 cent stuff in the bin at HD. Never had an issue with it.

[cschmid]

I use only 33+ or when it is cold 88 or better..I hate tape that does not stick or leaves a residue behind..I also keep my 33 plus in a controlled area..I dont care what the rest of the guys use I use real tape..It works when I need it too, even when left in truck at below zero temps..I also have habit of throwing cheap tape out..You get what you pay for..

[HighWirey]

Used 33 for 'permanent' work, phase tape for phasing, and cheepo for everything else. Never has been much of a concern.
Actually did not use much 33, except on potheads.

Happy New Year Everyone and Best Wishes

[Krim]

Used 33 for 'permanent' work, phase tape for phasing, and cheepo for everything else. Never has been much of a concern.
Actually did not use much 33, except on potheads.

Happy New Year Everyone and Best Wishes

Yea, that 33 will shut'em up .
Couldn't resist that one .
Carl

[brian john]

I buy the tape and INSIST on the best, cheap tape is just that cheap. I hate it.

[Rockyd]

The cost of cheap gets very expensive when you have 10+ wireman held up on a pull because the head came undone for cheap tape? Cold weather demands are far different than those above 32 degrees.

Seen some pretty "magical" splices pulled out of a pond that ran 480 for more than a year on the North Slope! It doesn't escape stupid, but it screams the ability's of 23, and 88, used together.

I'd be guilty of using phase tape to make some pulls If I run out of 33.

[hockeyoligist2]

George, has anyone ever griped at you for using phase tape for pulling? :grin:

I have griped because someone else did. Long run underground, replacing damaged wire, water and grit in the conduit. Guess what? The tape let go. I wanted to throw dirt on him while we were digging a new trench......

[e57]

Temflex for all but phasing. (33 on phasing) Most things do not require tape at all.... Mostly use for bundleing and pulling, general use...

And rarely if I need tape for kerneys or such, rubber puddy tape (Sctotchfil?), and a few layers of 33.

NEVER USE COLORED (EPECIALLY WHITE) TAPE FOR PULLING! It leads to a dangerous situation if confused with phasing....

[cschmid]

why would white tape make you confused when pulling??I am guilty of using phase tape to pull with..

[Krim]

Temflex for all but phasing. (33 on phasing) Most things do not require tape at all.... Mostly use for bundleing and pulling, general use...

And rarely if I need tape for kerneys or such, rubber puddy tape (Sctotchfil?), and a few layers of 33.

NEVER USE COLORED (EPECIALLY WHITE) TAPE FOR PULLING! It leads to a dangerous situation if confused with phasing....

I've used white tape during pulling for easy ID in order to see it easier ... I never pull energized lines so as to risk safety of myself, equipment or others .
Carl :)

[roger]

I use cheap tape for serving pulls, Scotch 33 or 88 for permanent terminations and cuts on hands and fingers, however, I prefer marking tape for cuts because it doesn't leave black rings on your fingers when you take it off. :)

Roger

[brian john]

My guys use duct tape for taping large pulls, they swear by it.

[ItsHot]

It is hard to beat 3M tapes and wire connectors.

[480sparky]

I didn't vote because my choice isnt' listed:

Good stuff for where it counts (phase identification, or elsewhere it is permanent), cheapo stuff for small wire pulls, covering photocells for testing, etc..

[Rockyd]

When we use a sock for a pull, lots of times we use a couple of wraps of heavy visqueen Clear plastic heavy duty wrap) around the head, and tape it. When we get to the end of a pull, just cut off the poly water and grime soaked plastic around the head to expose a nice clean sock for the next pull!

[bkludecke]

I buy a box of 33+ every few months and my guys hide it for when it counts. I always have plenty of 1700 around which is fine for 99% of what we need tape for.

[Rewire]

When we use a sock for a pull, lots of times we use a couple of wraps of heavy visqueen Clear plastic heavy duty wrap) around the head, and tape it. When we get to the end of a pull, just cut off the poly water and grime soaked plastic around the head to expose a nice clean sock for the next pull!
Try this,cut a piece of tie wire a foot longer than the plastic wrapping tie one end to the head and lay it alongside the sock then wrap your plastic over the sock and tie wire leaving the wire tail exposed when you are done with the pull grab the tie wire tail with your kliens and pull the tie wire through the plastic quick and easy.

[Rockyd]

Have to give that a try next month!

[HighWirey]

"I buy a box of 33+ every few months and my guys hide it for when it counts. I always have plenty of 1700 around which is fine for 99% of what we need tape for"

That Left Coast guy is on my frequency.

Never taped the head of a large wire pull. Just strip out 18" of each conductor, save out a few strands of each, double 'em back through the sampson rope, wrap 'em around the whole bundle, tighen'em up with the nines, and give 'em hell. Largest we've ever pulled was 750, but never lost a pull.

Happy New Year Everyone and Best Wishes

[JohnJ0906]

Never taped the head of a large wire pull. Just strip out 18" of each conductor, save out a few strands of each, double 'em back through the sampson rope, wrap 'em around the whole bundle, tighen'em up with the nines, and give 'em hell. Largest we've ever pulled was 750, but never lost a pull.

Happy New Year Everyone and Best Wishes

I do my heads the same way, but give it a few wraps of tape to keep everything tight.

Use the cheap stuff for almost everything. That is what the boss buys.

[76nemo]

when I was in china a few years ago, the electrical tape they had did not have adhesive. they would wrap and tie the ends in knots.

we left the few rolls of black tape we brought with us in the electricians hands. you woulkd have thought it was gold.

they had no wire nuts either. they stripped the wires back and tied the wires together. the knot was very tight and near impossible to open up. the mexicans did the same thing, but had tape with adhesive on it.


OMG, I thought I had seen it all. Doing mainly just maintenance, I have seen quite a few knee slappers and nightmares, but that's the cherry!

[e57]

I've used white tape during pulling for easy ID in order to see it easier ... I never pull energized lines so as to risk safety of myself, equipment or others .
Carl :)

Nor will I pull energized, but the 'NEVER WHITE' rule was passed on to me early. I have only broken that rule once - and it nearly killed a lineman connecting my service work. (I have since followed the rule religiously) A peice of white was stuck to a hot, so when they got re-identified at a weatherhead - another guy/'cook in the kitchen' marked it white - which resulted in another (the actual neutral) being identified as a hot. Later that stormy evening the poco came to connect and the guy hooked up the open conductor marked white as the neutral, then proceeded with the others until BLAM!

Sure you can mark them before you pull - but white tape only goes on the neutral, and the neutral only....

Rule #2 - always ring out conductors to confirm what they are...

[Krim]

Nor will I pull energized, but the 'NEVER WHITE' rule was passed on to me early. I have only broken that rule once - and it nearly killed a lineman connecting my service work. (I have since followed the rule religiously) A peice of white was stuck to a hot, so when they got re-identified at a weatherhead - another guy/'cook in the kitchen' marked it white - which resulted in another (the actual neutral) being identified as a hot. Later that stormy evening the poco came to connect and the guy hooked up the open conductor marked white as the neutral, then proceeded with the others until BLAM!

Sure you can mark them before you pull - but white tape only goes on the neutral, and the neutral only....

Rule #2 - always ring out conductors to confirm what they are...

e57,
That's a good enough reason to change , thanks . I guess for safety sake when I want a light color for seeing easily I'll use another color such as the seldom used tan. Normally I pull or cut off the tape after a pull but as you mentioned, someone else could come along, perhaps while I'm gone to lunch, and not knowingly miswire things.
Carl :)

[HighWirey]

Little off topic here kids. Still talking about tape though.

Ever watch This Old House?

Richard Trethewey, the HVAC contractor on the show, is my hero. He is an accomplished mechanical contractor, knows a lot about his trade. Showed me a lot of new stuff. But I still get a big thrill watching him attempt to wrap teflon tape on a piece of pipe. You all hide and watch, and report back.

Happy New Year Everyone and Best Wishes

[DIRT27]

Try this,cut a piece of tie wire a foot longer than the plastic wrapping tie one end to the head and lay it alongside the sock then wrap your plastic over the sock and tie wire leaving the wire tail exposed when you are done with the pull grab the tie wire tail with your kliens and pull the tie wire through the plastic quick and easy.

I learned something similar to this when I was a first year apprentice. It works with just duct tape too. We always tie wire the sock to the wire on long hard pulls. Then I usually tie a piece of tie wire from the head of the sock and leave about six inches sticking out past the sock. I tape the whole sock from top to bottom leaving the tie wire just sticking out the end. After the pull just grab the tie wire and pull. It cuts right through the duct tape from top to bottom. Peel the tape off with the same result nice clean sock for the next pull.

I have seen a ton of guys tape the sock with out using a rip cord. If you have ever done this it is a pain to cut the duct tape off with a knife.

[electricalperson]

i hate it when someone uses colored tape for pulling or tying up bundles of wire or snakes or what not.. my boss hates it even more. my boss bought a box of no name brand electrical tape i think he paid 20 cents a roll or something like that and i love the stuff

[mdshunk]

I do a fair amount of old work, and regularly use old cables to pull in new cables and so fourth. These are pulls that I really only get one try at to make it. I want good tape for that. Plus, sometimes it took me so long to get my string or fish stick from A to B for fished in circuits in old work, that it would be a rotten shame if my pull were to come off. For this reason, for old work, 33 is my choice.

I normally tape up the head of large pulls, but I reach for duct tape for that purpose. For run of the mill pulling in conduit, I don't normally use much tape at all.

[Minuteman]

I didn't vote because my choice isnt' listed:

Good stuff for where it counts (phase identification, or elsewhere it is permanent), cheapo stuff for small wire pulls, covering photocells for testing, etc..

480! Re-read the third choice and go back and vote...



By them books and send them to school, and what do they do?

[iwire]

I keep some good stuff on the truck (I never let Peter D use it. ;)) but only use for permanent items.

[peter d]

I keep some good stuff on the truck (I never let Peter D use it. ;)) but only use for permanent items.

That's ok, I just took Matt's anyway. :D

[peter]

Just to clarify this thread:
Cheap black phase tape is ~60 cents per roll
Colored phase tape is ~$3-4
+33 tape is about %5 a roll.

Side note: pity poor Kevin. This was one of my first jobs as a new apprentice. We had a very hard pull [PVC 1/2"] and Kevin was up on a ladder pulling and I was feeding. I was out of tape so all I could do was bend the wires over the loop in the end of the fish tape. This worked until the came out at his end.
At that point, my bend at the end sprang open and released the fish tape which he was still pulling hard. He fell off the ladder. But fortunately he didn't damge any concrete or dirt or anything where he landed.
Lesson: Always supply your workers with enough tape!
~Peter

[pbeasley]

I'm guilty of using phase tape for pulls, bundling, marking and anything else I can think of... asked purchasing for 20 rolls each color of scotch 35. They happened to add an extra "2" on the yellow line... told me it would cost too much to send it back and I should just keep it. I think I'm finally down to about 30 rolls. ;-)

[iwire]

Colored phase tape is ~$3-4


We pay about $1.00 per roll for cheap colored marking tape.

[hardworkingstiff]

I use only 33+ or when it is cold 88 or better..I hate tape that does not stick or leaves a residue behind..I also keep my 33 plus in a controlled area..I dont care what the rest of the guys use I use real tape..It works when I need it too, even when left in truck at below zero temps..I also have habit of throwing cheap tape out..You get what you pay for..

I'm curious, what kind of car do you drive?

What paper towels do you buy?

[hardworkingstiff]

What's that old saying?

"Take care of the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves".

IMO, there is a place for the 1700 and a place for the 33+. Most of the time, I don't need the 33+.

Another question, what is a "sock"? I've seen it posted here a few times, but I've never heard it before (other than covering feet).

[Minuteman]

Another question, what is a "sock"? I've seen it posted here a few times, but I've never heard it before (other than covering feet).
A sock is one of those "Chinese finger trap" wire gripper for pulling.

Looking for a picture...

[hardworkingstiff]

A sock is one of those "Chinese finger trap" wire gripper for pulling.

Looking for a picture...

Don't worry about a picture, I have a few of those "socks". LOL, I just never heard them called that. I've heard "Chinese finger", Becket, Kellum grip, just never sock.

Thanks for the information.

[charlie tuna]

i was always fussy about tape, so my men knew my policy -- pulling data cable requires alot of tape but it's a temporary installation for the pull. but when it came to power wiring like bugs and such, scotch 33 was used. i can remember buying ten packs of the cheap stuff for 33 cents a roll and buying cases of it while wondering if it might go bad on me??? but it never did........... for about ten years over 60 per cent of our work was data cabling.........

[growler]

This was one of my first jobs as a new apprentice. We had a very hard pull [PVC 1/2"] and Kevin was up on a ladder pulling and I was feeding. I was out of tape so all I could do was bend the wires over the loop in the end of the fish tape. This worked until the came out at his end.
Lesson: Always supply your workers with enough tape.


I'm willing to bet that at least half the tape supplied for that job was at someone's house at that very minute.

The problem with supplying enough tape is not supplying enough to do the job but supplying enough for each employee to take home a half dozen rolls and still leave enough to do the job. :grin: :grin:

[brian john]

At one time I had over 20 rolls of partially used tape in my night stand drawer, a few wire nuts, some StaCons, partial roll of Life Savers and other Misc. jnk.

[Rockyd]

Minuteman,

Gets better than that...we use split socks for mid cable grabs, like when more than tugger is needed on a 500'+ pull and the tension meter starts creeping up (1800+ pounds) on "girly cable" MC.

Split socks are just like a regular sock, except it wraps around the cable and has a long pin that is laced through the weave of both ends to form a sock again. Tie wire is a mandatory...along with some "cheap" tape to avoid getting snagged on other cables already tied down in a tray.

[electricalperson]

i got a pretty large collection of partial rolls of tape from work good thing he pays 20 cents a roll

[wireguru]

im on a quest to find somthing similar to 33, but with a lower price. permacel makes electrical tape with similar specs, im going to order some to try out.

tried the 'plymouth' tape the big boxes are selling now and its a failed made in china attempt to copy 33

according to 3M, 33 is the only electrical tape still made in america. maybe we should all buy it exclusively :smile:

[dominic42]

33+ and 35 here or better, compare the length per role and the 33 isnt really that much more.;)

[Minuteman]

Don't know how true this is, but I have heard that just one wrap of 33+ is rated for 600 volts. Can anybody confirm that for me?

[LarryFine]

Don't know how true this is, but I have heard that just one wrap of 33+ is rated for 600 volts. Can anybody confirm that for me? No way! I hate getting shocked. :grin:

"Let's get Mikey to try it!"

[pbeasley]

Based on this white paper I would say that a single wrap is not enough... http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_electrical_taping_skills/index.html

You should use a minimum of two half-lapped layers of vinyl tape to insulate and jacket low-voltage components. A half-lap (see Figure) consists of overlaying each turn by one-half the width of the tape. The general rule of thumb calls for a tape thickness of 1.5 times the thickness of existing wire or cable insulation. In every case, tension on the tape should be sufficient to conform the tape evenly to the surface. A slight reduction in tension is encouraged for the final wrap. Trim the tape end and allow it to return to shape before pressing down with the thumb to avoid lifting or flagging.

3M has this article linked on the 33+ site, so I would guess they agree..

[Minuteman]

No way! I hate getting shocked. :grin:

"Let's get Mikey to try it!"

Okay, 2 1/2 wraps or more. Mikey likes LIFE, and not just the cereal. :D

[cschmid]

okay I have just bought some of that cheap tape..3M 1710 general use tape..and after reading someone said 1 wrap is good for 600 volts I can not answer that but in the ECM magazine article they talk about proper wrapping procedure for tape..I know from reading other 3M products they actually recommend three wraps of tape are min for proper protection..Now is that the same with this cheap stuff..I hope I don't kick myself for this purchase cause 33+ is the correct tape to use..

[t willie]

I like to use cheap tape in a temporary situation. i.e. waiting on a motor to be repaired, marking a wire, on the fish tape, etc. The good stuff should always be used in the final assembly. [/SIZE]

[lexkyphil]

As high as labor is, my observation as a consultant on lots of jobs is that the time wasted dealing with cheap tape isn't worth it. The 33 or a similar quality tape pays for itself. On the foreign work, I worked with a hospital chain years ago where we were building in Mexico City. They had no wire nuts or decent tape, so we would fill briefcases with both and smuggle them in via the company jet. Didn't get caught or we all probably would still be guests of the federales.

Phil in Kentucky

[izak]

first time ive ever heard of anyone smuggling anything INTO mexico.... hehee

Wirenuts and tape....

thats funny