Baseboard Heat

[code_compliant]

I have a customer who's remodeling his rental property. It's completely gutted (fire job) and will only be heating with baseboard heat. My question is can I legally get by with just installing the onboard T-Stats as opposed to wall T-stats? Price is the only motivating factor here.

Thanks.

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a customer who's remodeling his rental property. It's completely gutted (fire job) and will only be heating with baseboard heat. My question is can I legally get by with just installing the onboard T-Stats as opposed to wall T-stats? Price is the only motivating factor here.

Thanks.
I have done the same in the past just make sure you use dp thermostats on the units. I don't see any legal issue with it.

[Dennis Alwon]

It really isn't that much more to add a wall dp t-stat-- line voltage of course.

[wbalsam1]

I don't think it's a code issue and therefore I think it would be permitted. If it's costs-savings in mind, I also think a single-pole t-stat would be permissible, since there would be double-pole overcurrent protection at the breaker location.
Having said all that, I would never do this back in the days of doing electrical work. I couldn't be talked into it by homeowners or anyone else. I never liked the ones on the unit because they were not easily controlled by the user, and I never liked single-pole t-stats simply because I thought they were cheapo and didn't offer the "off" protection of the dp's. :smile:
But I don't have a problem with anyone else's using them.

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't think it's a code issue and therefore I think it would be permitted. If it's costs-savings in mind, I also think a single-pole t-stat would be permissible, since there would be double-pole overcurrent protection at the breaker location.
Having said all that, I would never do this back in the days of doing electrical work. I couldn't be talked into it by homeowners or anyone else. I never liked the ones on the unit because they were not easily controlled by the user, and I never liked single-pole t-stats simply because I thought they were cheapo and didn't offer the "off" protection of the dp's. :smile:
But I don't have a problem with anyone else's using them.

I don't think a sp t-stat is legal if it is a 220 unit. I may be wrong but I am not at my book and don't have time to check it out.

[480sparky]

I don't think a sp t-stat is legal if it is a 220 unit. I may be wrong but I am not at my book and don't have time to check it out.

Would not a single-pole stat on a 240 or 208v heater be considered a controller, and not a disconnect?

[wbalsam1]

I don't think a sp t-stat is legal if it is a 220 unit. I may be wrong but I am not at my book and don't have time to check it out.

It was legal all the years I wired as far as I know, because the inspector around in those days would have caught it in a heartbeat and wrote it up for those guys using sp t-stats. I think 424.20(B) (05 NEC) permits them with conditions. :smile:

[480sparky]

It was legal all the years I wired as far as I know, because the inspector around in those days would have caught it in a heartbeat and wrote it up for those guys using sp t-stats. I think 424.20(B) (05 NEC) permits them with conditions. :smile:

Then it is a controller and not a disconnect.

[code_compliant]

Thanks for the replies.

It was legal all the years I wired as far as I know, because the inspector around in those days would have caught it in a heartbeat and wrote it up for those guys using sp t-stats. I think 424.20(B) (05 NEC) permits them with conditions.

424.20(A)(2) of the '05 states a dp T-Stat is needed if it's serving as a disconnecting means if I'm reading this right.


edited for grammar

[wbalsam1]

You won't find the word "off" on a sp- t-stat, because it's not off until the breaker shuts it off. It's only used as a controller like 480 sparky says. :smile:

[Dennis Alwon]

You won't find the word "off" on a sp- t-stat, because it's not off until the breaker shuts it off. It's only used as a controller like 480 sparky says. :smile:

Then wouldn't you need a breaker lock in order to not have a disconnect in sight of the heater.

[480sparky]

Then wouldn't you need a breaker lock in order to not have a disconnect in sight of the heater.

Yes, according to 424.19 (B)(1).

[peter d]

Just out of curiosity, are your electric rates low in Minnesota?

Electric heat in a cold climate go really bad together unless you have a passive solar house and/or really cheap electric rates.

[mdshunk]

Just out of curiosity, are your electric rates low in Minnesota?

Electric heat in a cold climate go really bad together unless you have a passive solar house and/or really cheap electric rates.
He said it was a rental, so landlords don't really care what the electric bill is. The tenants normally pay their own utilities.

Electric baseboard heat seems to be favored in rental property below a certain threshold. I certainly install and service a good bit of it for that group.

[code_compliant]

Just out of curiosity, are your electric rates low in Minnesota?

Electric heat in a cold climate go really bad together unless you have a passive solar house and/or really cheap electric rates.


Couldn't agree more. I haven't installed baseboard in the last five years.

Marc hit the nail on the head. In this application it's a second floor duplex and only the upstairs is being gutted. No furnace, and no ducts being installed. Expensive in the winter and damn hot in the summer!