Low Pressure Sodium....

[emahler]

Who's familiar with it? outside of long life, what are the advantages?

how would it compare to High Pressure Sodium?

we have a restaurant on the water, behind the restaurant is a marina. At one point in time there were 2 LPS fixtures on the roof of the restaurant shining over the marina. Roof is approx 20' above the water. The bulkhead is almost directly under the rear wall and the furthest slip is approx 250' from the bulkhead.

at some point in time, someone replaced one of the LPS fixtures with a 250W Metal Halide flood...but they used the remote mounted LPS ballast to power it:D

The existing LPS is a "SOX90" or 90W sodium oxide lamp.

Would it be advantageous to rebuild the existing LPS fixture and replace the one that went missing? or swap them over to 400W HPS?

The lighting is primarily for security. Thanks

[charlie tuna]

does the customer want "yellow" light?? i like the metal halide in a marina area because the usable light carries a longer distance!!! the upgrade with new fixtures is the only way to go!! better for you and the customer......

[emahler]

that's my opinion...i'm just not familiar with Low Pressure Sodium...

[peter d]

The CRI of LPS is 0. A big fat goose egg. For that reason alone it's a bad choice. Ballasts and lamps are hard to find as well.

I would go with the HPS myself as every marina around here seems to have a few big 400 or 1000 watt floodlights over the docks.

Edit spelling

[220/221]

Just stand in the light of a LPS fixture and look at the sickly gray colored face of the person next to you.

Get rid of them

[frenchelectrican]

I am not a very strong fan with the LPS [ low pressure soduim ] luminiares for one obvous reason is cost of bulb and hard to find luminaires [ this is true in North America area but European it used to be very popuar on roadways but now they are changing to PSMH or HPS ]

second thing is the colour retation is squat really muted alot of colours pretty serious.

90 w LPS have simuair performace as 310 HPS is but HPS have better colour reation than LPS is.

and also the LPS is pretty long starting it will take up to 5-15 min to get full brightness.
the only bad thing i hate about it is how you disposil the lamps properly they are [ beep ] to do it propely.

But let me forwarn a little senice the OP mention marina you have to have extra condseration is glare this part i am not kidding about glare so kinda keep in mind with it.

hope this will help you with the info

Merci, Marc

[eheins]

I have extensive knowlage of theses lps lamps and ballast due to the fact that I worked for Palm Beach County Parks. Alot of the parks on the beach had to have these fixtures for the turtles. IMO They have the same life spand as any HID fixture the only advantage is they deliver more lumens of light for each watt of power. So good for say parking lots where you dont really care about kelvins but not so much for anywhere else

[eheins]

the only bad thing i hate about it is how you disposil the lamps properly they are [ beep ] to do it properly



Merci, Marc

Its fun break the lamp and throw it in water you will get a real kick out of it:wink: :wink:

[emahler]

I have extensive knowlage of theses lps lamps and ballast due to the fact that I worked for Palm Beach County Parks. Alot of the parks on the beach had to have these fixtures for the turtles. IMO They have the same life spand as any HID fixture the only advantage is they deliver more lumens of light for each watt of power. So good for say parking lots where you dont really care about kelvins but not so much for anywhere else

yeah, sea turtles are not a worry here...glare is...thinking about going to 2 - 400W HPS fixtures...much easier to maintain...

kind of interested in the power savings though with the LPS...

[mdshunk]

I think the demand for the energy savings of LPS lamps quickly fades when the client sees the very jaundiced color it makes everything. It's a real sickly color, that is for sure. I have yet to run across a fan of the color. For me, I'd pay a few operating shekels more to have a normal color temperature.

(Do supply houses even stock LPS lamps and ballasts, normally?)

[emahler]

I think the demand for the energy savings of LPS lamps quickly fades when the client sees the very jaundiced color it makes everything. It's a real sickly color, that is for sure. I have yet to run across a fan of the color. For me, I'd pay a few operating shekels more to have a normal color temperature.

(Do supply houses even stock LPS lamps and ballasts, normally?)

not sure, this all came about on Saturday...supply houses all closed till tomorrow...but Grainger carries the lamps, but not the ballasts

[eheins]

I think the demand for the energy savings of LPS lamps quickly fades when the client sees the very jaundiced color it makes everything. It's a real sickly color, that is for sure. I have yet to run across a fan of the color. For me, I'd pay a few operating shekels more to have a normal color temperature.

(Do supply houses even stock LPS lamps and ballasts, normally?)

I agree the light is like out of a bad horror flik or something. And none that I know of in S FL we would order them buy the case from G.E so we allways had them in stock

[quogueelectric]

Even hps is fallen by the wayside in the last 10 yrs. I truly believe the best bang for the buck is metal halide.

[mdshunk]

Even hps is fallen by the wayside in the last 10 yrs. I truly believe the best bang for the buck is metal halide.
True. A metal halide refit is an easy upsell for fixtures with failed HPS ballasts. Nice, bright, white light. Convert one fixture, and you often get calls back to convert one or several more in the same area.

[emahler]

my concern with the MH is the glare...I don't have pictures, but the back of the restaurant is a wall of glass that overlooks the marina...the property is about 50' wide, the restaurant is 48' wide...there is a condo complex about 40' off the right of the restaurant and houses about 25' to the left of the restaurant.

the lights are about 6' above the glass windows....

I prefer the MH, but I'm concerned with the light pollution and glare...

am I worrying about nothing?

[emahler]

True. A metal halide refit is an easy upsell for fixtures with failed HPS ballasts. Nice, bright, white light. Convert one fixture, and you often get calls back to convert one or several more in the same area.

we've been using the MH retro lamps (run off an HPS ballast) in parking lots lately to convert them without the cost of replacing the ballast at this time...

[480sparky]

my concern with the MH is the glare...I don't have pictures, but the back of the restaurant is a wall of glass that overlooks the marina...the property is about 50' wide, the restaurant is 48' wide...there is a condo complex about 40' off the right of the restaurant and houses about 25' to the left of the restaurant.

the lights are about 6' above the glass windows....

I prefer the MH, but I'm concerned with the light pollution and glare...

am I worrying about nothing?

It's probably not the fact that it's MH, it's due to light trespass. The architect or engineer, or whoever spec'ed those lights, didn't understand what they were truly getting.

[quogueelectric]

Just check with the town for local lighting ordinances before you install.

[frenchelectrican]

my concern with the MH is the glare...I don't have pictures, but the back of the restaurant is a wall of glass that overlooks the marina...the property is about 50' wide, the restaurant is 48' wide...there is a condo complex about 40' off the right of the restaurant and houses about 25' to the left of the restaurant.

the lights are about 6' above the glass windows....

I prefer the MH, but I'm concerned with the light pollution and glare...

am I worrying about nothing?

IMO one good option is get the a cutoff luminaire which that mean it will not shine any light above the luminaire itself something like this

http://www.lithonia.com/Products/groups/Outdoor/Aeris/Aeris_ASW/images/AerisWallMainGraphic.jpg


there are quite few manufacters do come out with cutoff lens i know it may cost little more or none over standard wallpacks.

i will add a link for more details here http://www.lithonia.com/NightTimeFriendly/Cutoff.asp

this will expain little more clearer on this one

Merci, Marc

[emahler]

wall mount like that won't work...remember, i need to throw the light out about 250' from the fixture...or as far as a floodlight will go anyway...

[cschmid]

I would use a HPS light the amount of light given after peak curve on lumen's is better than MH and when the HPS fails it just goes out unlike the MH that will flicker on and off..both MH and MV are lights that will start and burn when it take more electricity to burn than lumen's returned..So I would use HPS and it cuts down on glare and maintenace..I like the white light yet we are changing for cost reasons to HPS they are far more dependable and last longer with more consistent light..LPS light has a better lumen curve but the cost far out weight the benefit..

[frenchelectrican]

Opps my bad .,,

Ok the Floodlight will work and with narrow flood beam pattern it can throw pretty far.

get one with narrow beam pattern that can really throw pretty far if you used 400w MH this one may work but not the exact the same but will give you a idea


http://www.cooperlighting.com/images/obgdatabase/Streetworks/Floodlighting/ASL_10x.jpg


but there is few other style you may want to check out at your electrical supply centre they may have something pretty close what you are looking for.

Merci, Marc

[boater bill]

Dump the LPS unless you have to deal with the Turtle Lady from Turtle Time. If you have the free Visual software from Lithonia's web site, you can determine the best ceverage for different lighting fixtures. Glare can be controlled by using flat lens, forward throw optics, house side shields, etc. 200 feet is a long way to reach and I am sure the LPS didn't do a good job there either.

Good luck

[john_axelson]

my concern with the MH is the glare...I don't have pictures, but the back of the restaurant is a wall of glass that overlooks the marina...the property is about 50' wide, the restaurant is 48' wide...there is a condo complex about 40' off the right of the restaurant and houses about 25' to the left of the restaurant.

the lights are about 6' above the glass windows....

I prefer the MH, but I'm concerned with the light pollution and glare...

am I worrying about nothing?


You shouldn't have more "glare" from the Metal Halide lamp then you would from a HPS or LPS. It is all about the cut off angle of the fixture you are installing. If you are truly worried about glare at the condo or restaurant, try house-side shields or a light fixture that will offer direct cut-off.

Wouldn't install LPS myself. Is the customer concerned with being able to distinguish colors? You said this was primarily for security purposes, do they have a camera set up? Even if they don't have a camera set up, the CRI of the Metal Halide lamp is what I would install, then you just need to decide if you want to go with Pulse Start, Super Metal Halide or Metal Halide. If concerned with power consumption, look at the 320W Pulse Start that has roughly the same lumens as the 400W Metal Halide standard lamp.

[cschmid]

I like the pulse starts but is the added cost a benefit??they are extra money to repair and to maintain..Does the customer need an instant on light or is four minutes going to make a safety hazard??you can use cutoffs and side shields but are you going to be the one maintaining it??Is this customer one of your regular customers??I would sell them something that is durable and easy to maintain so it cuts their future costs down..I am lithonia fan and they have lighting specialist that work with local suppliers that will actually come to the site and give you some help..

[quogueelectric]

I like the pulse starts but is the added cost a benefit??they are extra money to repair and to maintain..Does the customer need an instant on light or is four minutes going to make a safety hazard??you can use cutoffs and side shields but are you going to be the one maintaining it??Is this customer one of your regular customers??I would sell them something that is durable and easy to maintain so it cuts their future costs down..I am lithonia fan and they have lighting specialist that work with local suppliers that will actually come to the site and give you some help..
Just order them with a quartz restrike if an instant on is desired this is no longer an issue. There is almost zero maintenance to these fixtures for many years and the price is relatively low in the long run.

[cschmid]

I like both pulse start and re-strikes but both are added maintenance..I find the re-strike bulbs don't last as long outside in the cold but that might not be a problem there..

[frenchelectrican]

I don't have any issue with the pulse start MH's they are getting very common nowdays. but just watchout with common 400's it can get little confuseing with wattage they come in 320, 350,360,400 i think someone make a 420 or 460 watt verison of this.

but really most common is 320,360 and 400 in this range.

For restrike quatz it is not too bad depending on how often they will kick on depending on the place will be 24/7 or just two shift operation.

Most outdoor luminaires i dealt with it most dont have quatz restrike on it but very few do spec'ed that but that pretty rarety

Merci, Marc