One dimensional electricians

[j-box]

Talking to a friend who owns a small electrical contracting outfit, he hired a guy who said he was a commercial journeyman electrician, my friend put this guy and a 1 year helper to wire 2 1700sft tract homes basic install, the JM did not know the basic installation of a residential project, ie. 2 small appliance crkts. bath gfcis. did not know about arc fault brkers. he ran seperate crkts for lights and recpts, used all #12 Romex (not required by city for all crkts) instead of #14 and #12 romex, meter base @ center @ 6' 10", the POCO requires the MB between 6' and 4' to center, he srewed up the job. My friend had to spend time and correct all this, he found out on a walk thru with JM. Now the JM did know commercial and is fast and knowlegable in commercial, zipped thru a small lease space, all green tags. did some troubleshooting on some pole lts found problem in no time. When my friend mentioned the houses to him, he said "Ah man residential, man piece of cake". Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?

[peter d]

Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?

That is basically true. If you do your whole apprencticeship doing only residential or commercial work, that is all you will know how to do.

Some apprenticeship rules require a specific amount of time for each aspect of the trade (resi, comm, troubleshooting, etc). However, I've rarely seen this practiced or enforced.

[Dennis Alwon]

I like to think of us as doctors. We all have our specialty. The more you do of one thing the better you get. I started doing commercial and I hated it. I will make less money on residential but I am happy and that's all that matters. IMO

[iwire]

We all have our specialty. The more you do of one thing the better you get.

I agree. :smile:

I am happy and that's all that matters. IMO

If it's not all that maters, it is ceratainly close. 8-)

[Cavie]

This is very common and should not be a surprise. I have known electricans who bent pipe for 20 years and never saw a piece of romex. I myself was in business 10 years and did only residential work with the occasional small strip store build out. I did commercial before going into business. After selling business I did electric work for an A/C company. There are lots of niches and everybody seems to find one to be comfortable in.

[satcom]

Talking to a friend who owns a small electrical contracting outfit, he hired a guy who said he was a commercial journeyman electrician, my friend put this guy and a 1 year helper to wire 2 1700sft tract homes basic install, the JM did not know the basic installation of a residential project, ie. 2 small appliance crkts. bath gfcis. did not know about arc fault brkers. he ran seperate crkts for lights and recpts, used all #12 Romex (not required by city for all crkts) instead of #14 and #12 romex, meter base @ center @ 6' 10", the POCO requires the MB between 6' and 4' to center, he srewed up the job. My friend had to spend time and correct all this, he found out on a walk thru with JM. Now the JM did know commercial and is fast and knowlegable in commercial, zipped thru a small lease space, all green tags. did some troubleshooting on some pole lts found problem in no time. When my friend mentioned the houses to him, he said "Ah man residential, man piece of cake". Well it turned out differant than a piece of cake. What, are we getting now one dimensional electricians, that only know one phase of the trade, instead of all phases, Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Construction and Service. Your thoughts please.:-?


Sounds like your friend make a big mistake by not having someone qualified work with this j-man first, to see if he had the experience he claimed.

There are more residential wiring guys, out there that think they are electricians, and try to do J-man level work.

Don;t some guys claim J-man, and just don;t have the schooling ot hours to back it up, in states that have licenses, it is easy to check.

[growler]

I don't think you have to worry about it for a few more years because I don't think anyone is going to be building very many houses. :grin: :grin:

Of course there is a down side to all this. :rolleyes:

[dduffee260]

I have always been told to get good at one thing excel at it. Don't sound like the guy was an incompetent electrician, he was just out of his element. Sounds like he could learn it if he wanted to. But then why would he want to learn houses when he can do commercial work?
I think it was Dirk Diggler that once said " everyone's blessed with one special thing".
On a side note I noticed your in Texas, used to you had to earn that license, since it went state wide you don't really know how much of a journeyman the person is until they perform.

[Rewire]

we get alot of guys wanting jobs claiming 3-4 years of expierience usually these guys worked for the condo electrical contractor and all they know how to do is nail a box ,drill a hole ,pull a yellow wire.

[celtic]

Don;t some guys claim J-man, and just don;t have the schooling ot hours to back it up, in states that have licenses, it is easy to check.
NJ has a "Qualified Journeyman Electrician" card....good luck on finding much about obtaining/maintaining it....let alone trying to find a searchable database.

[quogueelectric]

I started residential in the early 70s working for my dad until I quit. I found a bill for 7 bucks an hour and he was only paying me 2. Lots of digging ,drilling, Pulling RX, lots and lots of grunt work and I allways fought with my uncle. Started commercial in the early 80s and only did residential on weekends. I am amazed how many Excelent commercial electricians would struggle painfully to wire a house to all code . They dont do residential so they just dont care about the codes they need to know and to tell you the truth a lot of them think that it is beneath them untill they really screw up a resi job for a family member or relative. They think they know it but they dont it happens a lot. I learned it for myself because it meant money for me on the side and have to endure every boss accuse you of stealing his material which I dont. Until I learned where to find my own information I had to rely upon word of mouth and about 10 yrs ago I learned residential framing which helped me get around a house much easier. Gotta go to a wake now the healthiest guy I know just dropped dead tying his shoes 50 yrs old .

[nyerinfl]

Sounds like your friend make a big mistake by not having someone qualified work with this j-man first, to see if he had the experience he claimed.

I agree, should've checked him out before handing him a house, it's your friends license and reputation on the line. The majority of electricians I encounter don't really care about the code, they only know enough to do what they need to do. There are exceptions, like many of the people here, but generally, most only seem to care about their paycheck. Just my opinion.

[220/221]

Your thoughts please

It takes a long time and the right employment opportunities to learn all phases of electrical work.

The contractor was clearly at fault for sending him there blind.

[charlie tuna]

i agree with the above----always send a new guy out with a knowledgeable electrician before turning a job and apprentice to him!! another quality is attitude-- the contractor's real job is the placement of personnel into positions to make his business profitable.. if your too busy to do this job--guess what--- your too dang busy!!!!!!!!!!

[cowboyjwc]

I believe that it's true as a rule. I had been in the trades about three years when my old boss hired a guy with a lot more years (commercial) and sent us out to do a house. About half way through he finally turned to me and said "it's a good thing you know what we're doing":smile:

Not knowing the applicable codes and being a bad electrician are two different things.

[e57]

IMO there are fewer people getting full rounded experiance - only doing one thing. Reason is companies are getting into niche markets - the employees never get both sides that way. But I have said this before - "You're an electrician, or you're not" If you're only doing tract homes your whole career and nothing else - you're just a robot. Likewise if you're only doing this, or that, etc. Can't be bothered to read a code book to see what additional requirements are when faced with situations new to you.... :rolleyes:

J-box, In the past, and on occassion I will wire residential all in #12 - I used to work for a company where it was policy only to have no smaller than 12's on anything... That said a critique or two here and there may help this guy be a much better more broadly experianced guy some day. Live and learn....

[360Youth]

My boss gives me a hard time once in a while saying I didn't know there was so much to electrical before I started with him. He is not an electrician, but we are one of the more well-rounded companies in the area. We do motor re-winding, controls, generators, as well as residential and light commercial. I definitely admit to being one-dementional when it comes to resi vs comm. I can hold my own in commercial, but housing is what I learned and it is what I do. Not saying I am the best, no way, but it is what I do. I was visiting MD this weekend and was having dinner with my brother (fire alarm systems and comm.) and his girlfriend, also an electrician and we were discussing the differences. Not related to her, but more towards the OP, but I take offense at electricians that say, "Residential, no problem." I made the statement this weekend and we'll see it I get heat from it here :smile: ;) , but I think residential is harder to run and keep track of, but commercial is the harder more percise work. Anyone can pull romex, but it takes talent and skill to run metal conduit. On the flip side, I'll take a set of engineered blueprints with receptacle A coming from circuit 12 in panel E4 any day over penciled in "elecrical" plans any day. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot to coordinate on the commercial end, I've been there and I don't want it. I like pulling NM. I like doing it faster, neater, and better than last time.

Edit to add: BTW, I haven't even scratched the surface of the work that is out there. I am humbled and in awe of the many variations to our trade and the knowledge and experience of this forum and of the industry in general. Electricians can become very one-dementional in what they do. Not necessarily a bad thing because you can become very good at what you do.

[EBFD6]

I have never wired a house and probably never will, I am a commercial/industrial service technician. Everyone has their thing, mine isn't residential. It just doesn't interest me, way too many residential specific codes and if you don't do it all the time you will have a hard time wiring perfectly to code IMHSO. I prefer to run pipe and troubleshoot/wire machines. Doing industrial service work there is always something different to keep me interested. Maybe I'm wrong but resi just looks way to repetitive as does commercial construction. I'll stick to service work, you guys can keep all that production orientated work. JMHSO!

[Tori]

I have worked commercail my entire career 20 yr.s now
although my education for trade school is navy CE/CB 1 year school only , 4 yr,s non union trade school work days, school at nights working on office buildings core and tenant then went union 2 more years of school (the last two of a 4 year apprenticeship , I got credit for the education I had ) and have never wired a house except on the side, our union strives to put out qualified men , well rounded but they do not mean residential because we do not do residential
I know plenty of electricians who are fantastic but do not know there way around a house and don't care to

Our trade is so vast it is inevitble that guys all know something better than the next about a differant aspect
I for one love pipe, rigid pipe exposed and am fast and good at it , I hate terminations and pulling mc -
pulling big wire is a another speicalty
so you see we are all differant and what is monotous to me may not be for you :roll:

[electricalperson]

as an electrician you should know at least the basic codes required for different buildings. my company i work with will take a job from anyone. one day we can be fishing in plugs in someones house and the day after we can be in a health care facility the next. so i think any electrician that reads and understands teh code can do residental if they are just a commercial electrician.

[electricalperson]

personally i wish i could just do commercial/hazardous location work. love it

[infinity]

I worked with a guy who was a good commercial electrician. He was doing some renovation work on his own house and posted a few questions here. Crucification shortly followed. It seems he had never wired a residence but had 15 years in commercial work. He told me that guys who do large commercial work rely more on everything being spelled out for them, either by the prints, a layout man or a foreman.

[j-box]

as an electrician you should know at least the basic codes required for different buildings. my company i work with will take a job from anyone. one day we can be fishing in plugs in someones house and the day after we can be in a health care facility the next. so i think any electrician that reads and understands teh code can do residental if they are just a commercial electrician.
I agree, this is a good point, what happens when the "commercial" JM or "Residential" WM wants to test to a higher grade license say master and wants to start his business then what, somtimes when barley starting in business, might have to take on a residential job or a commercial job is offered that just can give that edge to grow the business , then what turn it down because all I know is " RESIDENTIAL" my feeling is try to learn all phases of the electrical trade and you will be more successful.JMO

[zog]

I agree, niches are good things, you cant know everything about electrical systems. I work on 15kV and above, some 480 substation stuff. I have had to work with other electricians on jobs that great electricans but clueless on power systems.

Now when it comes to my house, i call an electrician. Last time when the guy showed up I asked to see his union card. He asked why and I showed him mine, he asks why arent you doing this yourself. I said, you call me for a TTR test on your next 500MVA transformer job or to test your SEL relays, I'll call you for this stuff.

My point is all electrical is not the same, some is apples and oranges.

[zdog]

i do mostly residental,but some light commerical(build outs or small strip buildings).in res.i can move faster.i know what i can and cant do and dont have to think much.:grin: it is just natural for me.its easier to run romex than pipe(at least for me).
when i do commerical i have to think more about what im doing.how many wires in a pipe,derating and the like.it also tends to load the pick up down when youve got romex and plastic boxes for res. and metal boxes and mc for rcommerical.( before i get attacked by the wet romex police i have a hard top covering the bed)
as far as industrial.only did one job at a soy bean plant.went in one of their electrical rooms. two lines of distrubition pannels.no fronts or backs on them,2x4s holding wires as big as me in them.(know this isnt normal).that place scared the #@$ out of me.

[Tori]

yes but it is all about he money isn't it, know the code to where it applies to you and what you do.

Hint for the future - don't send a pipe man to wire a house or a wire puller to trouble shoot the dimmer panel on a bid job

[joebell]

Our trade is so vast it is inevitble that guys all know something better than the next about a differant aspect
you :roll:



Tori,

As a SEABEE you should know how vast this trade can be. They covered from power generation to distribution to interior wiring. I don't have a problem with people knowing particular phase of our trade. I have an issue with people thinking because it is residential wiring, as was implied in the OP by the Jman ,that some how it is easier.
I have been fortunate enough to do perform many tasks in this trade and each requires a different set of skills.

This is indeed a Vast Trade.

Joe

[brian john]

I think I have a fairly well rounded expierence. Though I have to help a friend wire an addition and I need to brush up on the NEC for this.

Commercial, Office, Schools, Stores, Hospitals, Light Industrial
Residential
Residential Service And the
Commercial Service
Electrical testing.
ATS service tech, generation.
Battery (UPS, telco) Service/Maintenance tech.
Involved in Power Quality and Grounding investigations.
Independent inspections and legal (I avoid the term expert) witness.

Some of the most knowledgable eletricians I have worked with would not know a 3-way from a single pole. But that's more than OK, by me.

[360Youth]

Some of the most knowledgable eletricians I have worked with would not know a 3-way from a single pole. But that's more than OK, by me.

Knowing what I know those things are so amazing, but I completely get it. I would be utterly lost in their field.

[quogueelectric]

I agree, niches are good things, you cant know everything about electrical systems. I work on 15kV and above, some 480 substation stuff. I have had to work with other electricians on jobs that great electricans but clueless on power systems.

Now when it comes to my house, i call an electrician. Last time when the guy showed up I asked to see his union card. He asked why and I showed him mine, he asks why arent you doing this yourself. I said, you call me for a TTR test on your next 500MVA transformer job or to test your SEL relays, I'll call you for this stuff.

My point is all electrical is not the same, some is apples and oranges.
To raise a breaker right?? I didnt know until I worked in a utility plant.

[tonyou812]

I like to consider myself prettly well rounded, I stared my career doing new residential for a few years and moved on to commercial and industrial. My weakness are I never really worked on a really large project or motor controls for any extended period of time.

Last week i went to the NJ Pact Center with my wife and saw a concert there. I remember how cool it was when all the sconces (hundereds of them)were dimmed all together. I thought how cool all that equipent must be and would have loved to seen it all.
I would Imagine it would take someone a loooooong time before they can really be considered a master electritian.

[celtic]

Last week i went to the NJ Pact Center with my wife and saw a concert there. I remember how cool it was when all the sconces (hundereds of them)were dimmed all together. I thought how cool all that equipent must be and would have loved to seen it all.

I have friends that wired that place up :smile:





I would Imagine it would take someone a loooooong time before they can really be considered a master electritian.

It would take several lifetimes in NJ :grin:

[tonyou812]

how big are those dimming modules?who makes them?

[celtic]

I wasn't there....next I time run into one of the guys that was, I'll have to ask him.

[cadpoint]

The aspect of how one learned the trade, how one relates to the trade, how one applies the trade, is as varied as the characters here!

I frankly would not like the thought that I'm going to be in·hab·it·ed in appling my vocation.

I frankly had to say in a inteview that went south, "What do I need to know to crawl in a access"? (( Is that clear enough))

I like what I do, I'm not here to do it twice!

[frizbeedog]

You have to have a desire to do this work. Its not just about punching the clock. Experience goes a long way when working in specific araes, but you gotta protect your business and surround yourself with people who can take on a challange and get it done right. I'm no code expert but a little understanding of all areas of the code goes a long way. I'm always surprised how many liscenced people looked surprised and confused when dealing with the code. I often think it would be smart for a contractor to have their new untested employees work with one of their trusted performers to make sure their getting what their paying for. After all, we are in the buisiness of making money, right?:smile:

[macmikeman]

The worst part of the original story here is that the guy probably either lied about his housewiring experience, thinking he could wing it, or he was led to believe it was just simple stuff only for idiots by all the hotshots who talk residential work down in the commercial / industrial arena. Side note, I once hired a guy for a commercial job who couldn't bend a 90 to save his life, (and admitted it), but had worked his whole career in a shop that built control panels. We taught him pipe bending soon enough, but anyway he sure came in handy figuring out jet loading bridge ladder diagrams and stuff like that. I was sorta just ok with ladders up to that point, but he used to coach me and I got good at it myself after a while. The employee taught the employeer. The point here is if they are just honest about the experience that they have, even if it doesn't meet your target, sometimes you get a real golden gem out of the deal.

[brother]

as others said, no one could know everything, its alot to know. I consider my self pretty well rounded, I do mostly commercial work. However once in a while i do residential. Its been a while since ive done industrial, but i can hold my own pretty good. I would like to learn PLC'S I have yet to have a chance to work on those.

[Poolside]

I think it is inevitable that we begin to specialize, and as we do, our knowledge of the broader range of techniques, standards, etc. begin to fade.

With that being said, the "professional" will always try to keep up with all facets of the trade... but as things keep changing, it sure gets hard to do. One of the BIG benefits to this forum is that it makes you think about things that you don't normally run into.

I grew up with this trade (5 years old putting switch and plug plates on for .25 cents/hour :) ), and I remember asking my father when I was 21, how long it would take to become a "qualified" journeyman. His answer, about 10 years after you finish an apprenticeship. I though that was a crock at the time and was little mad, too. 20 years later, I can say he was just about right.

- Greg -

[pbeasley]

how big are those dimming modules?who makes them?

If I were a betting man my money would be on these... ETC Sensor Dimmer Rack (http://www.etcconnect.com/product.overview.aspx?ID=20030)

[jrannis]

I have worked commercail my entire career 20 yr.s now
although my education for trade school is navy CE/CB 1 year school only , 4 yr,s non union trade school work days, school at nights working on office buildings core and tenant then went union 2 more years of school (the last two of a 4 year apprenticeship , I got credit for the education I had ) and have never wired a house except on the side, our union strives to put out qualified men , well rounded but they do not mean residential because we do not do residential
I know plenty of electricians who are fantastic but do not know there way around a house and don't care to

Our trade is so vast it is inevitble that guys all know something better than the next about a differant aspect
I for one love pipe, rigid pipe exposed and am fast and good at it , I hate terminations and pulling mc -
pulling big wire is a another speicalty
so you see we are all differant and what is monotous to me may not be for you :roll:

Wow sounds alot like my background. I almost wrote the same thing.

[jrannis]

as an electrician you should know at least the basic codes required for different buildings. my company i work with will take a job from anyone. one day we can be fishing in plugs in someones house and the day after we can be in a health care facility the next. so i think any electrician that reads and understands teh code can do residental if they are just a commercial electrician.

Been there dont that for sure. Service work and a good mix of residential/ commercial and a bit of industrial makes for a well rounded electrician.

[Tiger Electrical]

How does the saying go...I know more and more about less and less until I know everything about nothing. It's the nature of the beast. You can be great at one or a few things, but if you want to be great at everything, you're fooling yourself.

IMHO this wasn't an employee problem, it was an HR and supervision problem.

Dave

[cschmid]

I don't agree it being a supervisory problem..I think it is just habit with the #12 wire..But laziness on the journeyman's part, he can read right..If you don't do residential then read up on it..I don't know the big deal on using all #12 It is all I use unless I am doing control circuits..If I am doing something new I research it so I am doing it correctly..doing it wrong or not knowing when being paid is just laziness..if you are licensed you need to own a code book..every boss I ever had bought a code book for the truck..you loose you buy it but it must be in the truck when he looks unless you are using it..I require you to have one and to use it as well..

[growler]

Talking to a friend who owns a small electrical contracting outfit, he hired a guy who said he was a commercial journeyman electrician. Now the JM did know commercial and is fast and knowlegable in commercial, zipped thru a small lease space, all green tags. When my friend mentioned the houses to him, he said "Ah man residential, man piece of cake".


I have found that most people in the electrical trade do tend to over state their qualifications just a bit. If you have a residential guy that does one small tenant space then all of a sudden he also knows commercial. I met one kid, he was 21 years old that told me he had allready done it all. He had about 3 months experience in residential and the same in commercial & industrial and he was ready to do anything. Many of these people don't have enough experiene to know how much the don't know.

One more thing, green tags on a commercial lease space don't mean a thing. The last one I did the inspector didn't even look at the work he just ask what I was doing and signed off on it. I could of had 50 code violations and it wouldn't have made any difference. If the boss didn't check this guy's work he may want to. Don't depend on the inspector.

[wbalsam1]

......... The last one I did the inspector didn't even look at the work he just ask what I was doing and signed off on it. I could of had 50 code violations and it wouldn't have made any difference. If the boss didn't check this guy's work he may want to. Don't depend on the inspector.

This "inspector" should be fired from his job. He is entrusted with the care of public safety. To not even look the job over is nothing short of rotten. :mad:

[growler]

This "inspector" should be fired from his job. He is entrusted with the care of public safety. To not even look the job over is nothing short of rotten. :mad:

How many jobs do you inspect in the normal day, week, month, year? Are you a private inspector or employed by local government? What is the cost of inspection?

[aline]

I went on a call to troubleshoot some bathroom receptacles in a newly finished basement. This was a very nice home worth about $800k.
Found out when I got there the homeowner never pulled a permit for the work. He had hired an industrial/commercial electrician that wasn't licensed to do the work and was doing side jobs illegally. The work looked good and was professionally done.

Here's what I found.

There were no smoke detectors in the basement at all.

The bathroom GFCI outlets were wired in series with a GFCI outlet in the laundry room which was wired in series with a GFCI outlet in the utility room which was wired in series with a GFCI outlet in the garage. Since they were all wired in series you had to reset them in the right order. You first had to reset the garage GFCI then the utility room GFCI then the laundry room GFCI and then the two bathroom GFCI's.

A full kitchen was installed in the basement. There was one 15amp circuit that fed the built in microwave and all the countertop receptacles. Every receptacle was a GFCI receptacle and again they were all wired in series so when the one at the end of the line tripped they all tripped and you had to reset them in order starting at the one at the begining of the circuit.

The homeowner got a great price on the electrical wiring though. :)

As bad as this was I've seen much worse by GCs that save money by doing the electrcal themselves. Romex ran under the carpet for an island receptacle, splices with no boxes buried behind the sheetrock, cramming two wires under the ground screws, etc. Again this was an expensive home only a few years old.

[wbalsam1]

How many jobs do you inspect in the normal day, week, month, year? Are you a private inspector or employed by local government? What is the cost of inspection?


Anywhere from 1-12 per day.Some days no inspections because of paperwork requirements
I am employed by the government to do building and electrrical inspections. I also work part time as a private electrical inspector assigned outside of my governmental jurisdiction.
Government inspections run a little more pricey than the inspections I do for private. I think this is because private inspection companies compete for inspection jobs, so they keep their prices lower to get more of a piece of the inspection pie. :smile:

[Rewire]

I have found that most people in the electrical trade do tend to over state their qualifications just a bit. If you have a residential guy that does one small tenant space then all of a sudden he also knows commercial. I met one kid, he was 21 years old that told me he had allready done it all. He had about 3 months experience in residential and the same in commercial & industrial and he was ready to do anything. Many of these people don't have enough experiene to know how much the don't know.

One more thing, green tags on a commercial lease space don't mean a thing. The last one I did the inspector didn't even look at the work he just ask what I was doing and signed off on it. I could of had 50 code violations and it wouldn't have made any difference. If the boss didn't check this guy's work he may want to. Don't depend on the inspector.
Over my thirty year career I have done everything from hanging grannys new ceiling fan to piping the cooling tower at a nuclear power plant so it is pretty hard to pull the wool over my eyes when it comes to how much expierience you are claiming I had a 1 1/4 sealoff on my desk that was missing the cap a guy came in claiming years of pipe expierience I pointed to the sealoff and asked if he had ever used one of these he said sure thats for joining three pipes together he did not get the job.

[nakulak]

he said sure thats for joining three pipes together .

lol

I'll be the first to admit I'm not at all rounded, but if I go into unknown territory I do try to get all the information possible so I don't screw up (including but not limited to brushing up on the code sections). Its the guys who think they know everything (and think their memory is up to date!) that are dangerous, and therein lies the difference (imsho) (between the wary old dog and the young whipper snapper)

(by the way, in the way of a funny, I learned from some friends when I was in las vegas -they pointed out these birds there called coots ?? I told them out east we only had old coots. she didn't get it lol)

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

If a new hire knows his starting wage is going to be determined by how many positive answers he gives you, don't blame him for exaggerating.

[augie47]

for some reason of all the jobs I inspect, there are more Code violations on residential where the first words I hear are "you know, Frank. He's an electrician down at XYZ company."
True "homeowners" will often ask questions and read before attempting their own wiring. With obvious exceptions, a lot of the factory guys in this area "know how to make it run"

[j-box]

One more thing, green tags on a commercial lease space don't mean a thing. The last one I did the inspector didn't even look at the work he just ask what I was doing and signed off on it. I could of had 50 code violations and it wouldn't have made any difference. If the boss didn't check this guy's work he may want to. Don't depend on the inspector. Green tags mean the job is good to go, if the inspector is to lazy to check the project, then the one that needs to be checked is that inspections department starting with the chief inspector, and I have had the ocassional inspector give me a green tag without really looking at the job, I always make sure my job is good to go before I even consider calling any inspections, i would'nt want any bad reputation to follow me around the rest of my life, and lets be realistic does the boss need to go around and check the work a "qualified JM" has done everytime. My buddy just happened to walk the job, as I understand it just for the reason the JM was a new hire. But as for people talking residential down, my brother-in-law wires these multi-jazillion $ homes with all the bells and whistles money can buy, honestly I would bet not just anyone can wire those homes, he is what I call a "Residential Specialist".

[wirebender]

I pointed to the sealoff and asked if he had ever used one of these he said sure thats for joining three pipes together he did not get the job.

That's hilarious!:D

One thing I have always tried to stress to guys working for me was "If you don't know or don't understand what I'm saying, tell me." I would rather spend as much time as it takes to teach you than spend any time fixing what you mess up.

Even so, a lot of times when I am explaining something, a helper will be standing there nodding his head like he understands and I can tell by his eyes he doesn't have a clue. :roll: I would rather you thought me stupid for having to have something explained to me 3 times than for you to know I'm stupid because I can't admit that I don't understand. IMSO :D

[hardworkingstiff]

The older I get, the less I know.

[iaov]

I've done all three. Commercial, industrial, residential and they are all different specialties that require time to learn. I believe my industrial experience helped me to learn commercial faster than I would have starting from scratch, but niether realy prepared me to do residential. Residential skills have come from doing a lot of it. Before doing residential work I tended to look down on residential electricians and never thought of them as "real electricians". It can be very hard work and some of it certainly isn't rocket science. Still I find myself most days every bit as engaged and challenged by the problems of residential work as I was when I was trouble shooting automation. After thirty years I still get a kick out of turning a switch on for the first time and seing the right light come on.

[brian john]

The older I get, the less I know.


The older I get the more I wish I knew, I hope I am not losing any grey matter.

[growler]

Green tags mean the job is good to go, I have had the ocassional inspector give me a green tag without really looking at the job, and lets be realistic does the boss need to go around and check the work a "qualified JM" has done every time.


The owner or master elecrician only needs to check out the work if they wish to be in full compliance with Texas state laws. From a legal stand point I would say, yes.

If you check out the Administrative Rules of the Texas Department of licensing, you will find a requirement for general supervision of all employees. And a requirement for the contractor to make sure all work is compliant ( it's hard to do that if you haven't seen the job ).

The only way a boss is going to know if he has a " qualified JM" is to check up on him because in the end it's the owner/master that's responsible.

What's required by law and what really happens is often quite different. But that doesn't relieve anyone of any liability. :smile: