GC keeps nagging for more lights and temp power

[JohnME]

I have been on a project since October, it is a small ($120K electrically) commercial job. It is a 2 story, but the upstairs is just a small (80x20) room. I installed 4 temp 20a power circuits with 2 duplex gfi's at each spot, one set at the entrance to the job, two in the middle, and one at the rear. For a job of this size, it should be plenty.

I keep getting told they need more power, I say whatever- because they do not trip breakers very often (maybe twice a week one trips) and I do not make money on temp anything as you all know and feel the pain.

Lighting- The GC keeps saying they need more lights. I have 3 sets of stringers with at least 1-2 lights in every room. There is 3-4 weeks left until this project is totally done, and I was told at the end of the day today, in a rather aggressive manor, that they need more lights asap. I just do not understand this, as it is a construction site, not a finished workshop.

I put a light stand in the room on the second floor and called it good, as I really didnt want to drag power up there. I finally caved and brought a 12/3 romex up there, which passed outside the building at one point. I was told to take it down, as the wire was not rated for that use. This was the GC's safety man telling me this.

I am just so frustrated at this point it is killing me. I could spend a week stringing lights out for these guys to just take them down again. They are driving me up the wall and I am trying to make money here.

From a meeting I overheard, the GC isnt going to make a dime on this job, in fact, they have already lost money. I feel like they are just trying to screw me and any chance I have at making some coin at this point, but I know its probably not the intention.

VERY frustrated here..... Going to throw about 10 more lights up tomorrow and done deal.

I am VERY tempted to start hanging my 2x4 fixtures even though they have not painted, or have a grid up yet just to get my point across that if they would hurry up, we can get this behind us all and move on.

My temp lights were originally the cord and plug type, and their safety man told me that it was illeagle and they needed to be hardwired without a switching means. I said it was the first that I had heard of a UL listed product not being a legal means of connection for temp power.

These guys are driving me to drink.

Thanks for listening.

[JohnJ0906]

What does your contract say in regards to temp lights and power?

This is often (in my experience) forgotten by the GC, so it is a nice $ extra.

[480sparky]

Are the breakers tripping or is it the GFIs tripping. If it the latter, I'd say your contracual obligation has been met.

Speaking of contracts, what does it say about temp power, other than you will provide it?

I would then demand the GC provide you with a toilet that flushes and a sink to wash your hands in so he can go hassle the turd herders.

[JohnME]

From what I recall it says that I will provide sufficient temp power and maintain it (bulbs) for the duration of the project. I looked at the bid sheet and the office gave me $800 for it. Well thats long gone. Today they told me the flooring guy needs 480 volts for his spray unit or something, I said SURE no problem, I will just bill it out as time and material. He looked at me funny, and just stumbled out, oh okay.

This GC is the worst I have ever worked for.

They decided to keep their guys busy they would do the foundation work themselves, and frame it all up. Now they are behind. I was supposed to be roughed in by Christmas. Well 2 weeks ago is when I started, and was told I had 5 days to do it all. My original schedule allowed 20 days!!! I said I would do what I could. I did get it done, but my patience is now wearing thin.

I am trying to button up loose ends and finish this out, and they are driving me bat $hit!!!!!!!!

[mdshunk]

I'd tell the GC that you have temp power and lights already, and I'd also tell the safety man to go jump in a lake, because he's all wet already. Both of those jokers sound like a couple of amateurs.

[JohnME]

I said "you must be new" to the safety guy, I was right. The thing of it is, the GC has been at it for 30 years, but I guess some things dont get better with time. Really wearing on me. Some lights tomorrow, and I am DONE with temp anything. They just dont understand that lighting will not be as good as a workshop or finished product, I will be glad to finish this one and move on.

[quogueelectric]

I always push to finish the lighting asap so I can energize the newly ins.talled lighting and just hang a few lamps with cages in place of the 2x4 fixtures on the newly installed tails and just splice thru the switches in every room. I always run a 12/3 for power to a large 411 box with a twin decora mulberry cover. I feed 2 gfi breakers then run each ckts in opposite directions across the job so when the carpenters laborors spacklers or whoever trip the gfci they are perfectly capable of reseting it themselves and not waste my time resetting breakers for idiots with bad cords. It is amazing how quickly they smarten up when it starts to cost him money and not you wasting your time resetting breakers all day. When you set it up like this wasted time is at a minimum.

[480sparky]

Sounds like your GC is one of those that, if you gave him a hundred-dollar bill, he'd gripe it wasn't five 20s.

And that's how some GCs act all the time. They think their purpose in life is to make the subs miserable. If you doubled the fixtures and circuits, he still wouldn't be happy. So why bother?

[emahler]

i don't know what the specs are, but i'd guarantee that there are OSHA required lighting levels for temp lights...find them, and see if you meet them...if you do, tell them to pound salt...if you don't meet them, don't tell anyone, just add more lights:D

[JohnME]

I have done searches and cant find an osha figure on light levels. I will keep looking!

[mdshunk]

I have done searches and cant find an osha figure on light levels. I will keep looking!
3 to 5 footcandles, depending.

29 CFR 1926.56

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10630

[JohnME]

AWESOME! Thanks a ton. Now I need to pick up a light meter at the shop and let the games begin ;)

[emahler]

you're welcome:D

[mdshunk]

you're welcome:D
Thanks Erik. :grin:

[480sparky]

3 to 5 footcandles, depending.

29 CFR 1926.56

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10630

Now, who's got a light meter? ;)

[wbalsam1]

Edited: question was way off topic.

[mdshunk]

Now, who's got a light meter? ;)
Hmmm..... gee, I don't know. ;)

(You can get a cheap one for about 25 bucks at a camera store).

[emahler]

Thanks Erik. :grin:

if you keep showing a sense of humor, you just may be able to replace Celtic as my fact finder:D

[captaincrab55]

Just started a Hospital Remodel & the specs call for a minimum of 1-100 watt lamp in each room (seems to be the industry standard).. Naturaly if your using Temp Stringers(10' spacing), you will automatically end up with more lamps per room.. BTW, I recently heard that GC's send their Supperintendents for Training to be _zz ___es!!!!

[mdshunk]

Just started a Hospital Remodel & the specs call for a minimum of 1-100 watt lamp in each room (seems to be the industry standard).. Naturaly if your using Temp Stringers(10' spacing), you will automatically end up with more lamps per room..
I was digging around the other day and realized that those temp light strings really get away from you fast. I have no idea where they go over the years. I think people eat them on lunch break.

[480sparky]

I was digging around the other day and realized that those temp light strings really get away from you fast. I have no idea where they go over the years. I think people eat them on lunch break.

Most of them just get left.... I thnk the technical term is "Abandon In Place". Most aren't worth the time (labor) it takes to take them down.... they end up getting cut up anyway because the walls get built around them.

[Bob Kraemer]

3 to 5 footcandles, depending.

29 CFR 1926.56

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10630
Thanks Mark,
Useful info to have. 8-)

[pbeasley]

On a related note, any reason not to use CFL's in temp lighting?

[mdshunk]

On a related note, any reason not to use CFL's in temp lighting?
Yeah, they're expensive and people would probably steal them. I use the cheapest crap I can in them.

[e57]

Yeah, they're expensive and people would probably steal them. I use the cheapest crap I can in them.

You forgot - break REALLY EASY!!!!

Anyway the last fe companies I have worked for had differing policies.

NIC - CO to install outlet for "rent from us, or "you buy 'em" Temp boxes, cords and strings.
Wash my hands and I might fire up some stuff when done with rough.... ;)
In contract - See #1
Combos of all above.

[infinity]

On a related note, any reason not to use CFL's in temp lighting?


We used left handed sockets and lamps for this reason. No one ever steals them.

[john_axelson]

We used left handed sockets and lamps for this reason. No one ever steals them.


You mean so more of them will break when the unassuming electrician or GC tries to re-lamp?

[romexking]

What we always due is as soon as there is a roof on, we start roughing in the permanent lighting tails. Then you can install sockets and cages on the tails and they can have all of the light they want. We also set up a covered panel/outlet station in one location and from there it is up to the trades to stretch cords out.

One little hint, and I learned this the hard way, is not to install and fire up any recessed lighting. OSHA does not consider the lamp protected from damage and therefore you will get a "serious" violation. As for the "not switched lights", I have never heard of this, but there have been cases where GC's have been sued when people get hurt after entering the site at night or in emergency situations and there is no lighting.

[ITO]

This one of my favorite soap box issues… but Marc beat me to the punch. I would like to add a few points I make with every GC that has ever given me a contract:

1) There is temporary lighting as required by OSHA (Illumination 1926.56) AND there is there is TASK LIGHTING, they are not the same thing. My proposal only covers temporary lighting, while the TASK LIGHTING is the responsibility of which ever trade feels like they need more than 5 foot candles to perform their work. If the GC would like for me to furnish task lighting, I will gladly give them a price for it but its not free or included in my temporary lighting allowance. Please don’t try to tell me the story about the painters needing light so the paint will match, I have heard it before and we both know it is BS.

2) I only furnish temporary lights, and receptacles. Temporary power, ie consumption is by others, ie the GC.

3) My proposal, and contract stipulate an allowance for temporary lights and receptacles, feel free to use is all up on as many frivolous items as you like but once its it gone you start issuing change orders for any more lamps, 480V hookups, or anything else you might think you need. Temporary lights and receptacles is not an open check book invitation to get free stuff.

[celtic]

I like that Ito.
Think I'll "borrow" those concepts and re-package them as my own ;)

[Rewire]

Did a Gap a few years back and it was spelled out how many temp light runs as well as spacing of lamps called for 2 -120v GFCI receptacles in front and back of space the job super wanted power at his desk so it was an extra

[cdslotz]

This one of my favorite soap box issues… but Marc beat me to the punch. I would like to add a few points I make with every GC that has ever given me a contract:

1) There is temporary lighting as required by OSHA (Illumination 1926.56) AND there is there is TASK LIGHTING, they are not the same thing. My proposal only covers temporary lighting, while the TASK LIGHTING is the responsibility of which ever trade feels like they need more than 5 foot candles to perform their work. If the GC would like for me to furnish task lighting, I will gladly give them a price for it but its not free or included in my temporary lighting allowance. Please don’t try to tell me the story about the painters needing light so the paint will match, I have heard it before and we both know it is BS.

2) I only furnish temporary lights, and receptacles. Temporary power, ie consumption is by others, ie the GC.

3) My proposal, and contract stipulate an allowance for temporary lights and receptacles, feel free to use is all up on as many frivolous items as you like but once its it gone you start issuing change orders for any more lamps, 480V hookups, or anything else you might think you need. Temporary lights and receptacles is not an open check book invitation to get free stuff.


Yep. This is how you approach TP. If the painter needs more than the minimum, he needs to furnish his own. We quote only an "allowance" like ITO stated and bill T&M. We do have to cover the spec requirements and OSHA minimums.
I'm doing a job now where the TP is $220,000.00. TP is NOT free, so it needs to be included in your bid with a description of what that includes, or, I prefer to bid TP below the line, so my bid price will get me to the table and we can haggle over the TP.

[tonyou812]

Its the same everywhere, they always seem to complain about temp lighting and power. You could install 10 temp outlets and the idiots will all plug into the same outlet with splitters galor. If you met your requirements then tell this jerk to piss off.

[stickboy1375]

Its the same everywhere, they always seem to complain about temp lighting and power. You could install 10 temp outlets and the idiots will all plug into the same outlet with splitters galor. If you met your requirements then tell this jerk to piss off.

Yep I agree, I did a job where these carpenters were plugging in computer power strips with a built in 10 amp fuse and complaining of a power problem... :roll: These guys are unbelievable... too dumb to figure it out I guess...

[macmikeman]

... :roll: These guys are unbelievable... too dumb to figure it out I guess...

That is the sad conclusion I have had to come to after dealing with the many of them for a lifetime. I also put about 98% of residential general contractors into the same bag since they start out as... you guessed it - carpenters who plug too much stuff into plug in strips with a 10 amp cutout and then complain.

[tonyou812]

sometimes when they really get on my nerves and they are using those cheasy plug in strips ill make them a quad with a 1900 box and gfic/duplex. this usually fixes the problem and shuts them up. And ill charge them for the quad later.

[walkerj]

1212
This is what the carpenters do around here when the breaker trips!

[izak]

youve been taking pictures in arkansas again havent you????

he he

[JohnME]

youve been taking pictures in arkansas again havent you????

he he


LOL

Good ideas guys. I put up 6 more lights today on a stinger I had laying around and he now seems so happy he could wet himself. Tomorrow will be a different tune I am sure. I really am done with it though.

The sheet rockers came through and did the hard ceilings in all the bathrooms today, and buried the lighting I had in them instead of cutting around them.

This will be an issue I am sure. Oh well, life goes on.

As far as using the perm power lights for temps with a socket and cage, its tough in commercial buildings where all the ceilings are suspended, and the trades need light well before the walls are even up yet.

[e57]

Its the same everywhere, they always seem to complain about temp lighting and power. You could install 10 temp outlets and the idiots will all plug into the same outlet with splitters galor. If you met your requirements then tell this jerk to piss off.

While back I gave a job 10 whole 20A circuits - they call back and say the one by the tool box keeps tripping - I get there, and there is 3 rarely oiled compressors, and about 2 dozen tangled cords leading to the rest of the circuits I gave them, via 6-7 3-way splitters with all the grounds ripped out....... WT%!

And my all time favorite - many years before I owned a camera on my phone, because it would have made a good one!!! "The temp power is out" - I get there and follow the 50A cord - right into freshly poured concrete.... :roll: Cords, box, everything still plugged in.... Apparently the rebarred it into a grade beam and started pouring before they realized the just covered it. _ they called me just for effect.... They chopped peices out as few days later...

[quogueelectric]

I had a gc annoying me in a large medical bldg because the walls put up about 100 small examination rooms. I told the gc to go kiss a duck then he called my boss who told me to kiss a duck. Then I found out my brother in law was a golfing buddy of his boss and made a few phone calls for me and he could not kiss my buttocks fast enough. My theory is I give you what you pay for and if you pay for minimal temp light that is what I will give you. My favorite line to a GC now is Im not doing this for practice anymore.

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

1212
This is what the carpenters do around here when the breaker trips!

I like the added touch of blackness on the GFCI...